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The DC Thread: How many Crises is Too Many?

2456763

Posts

  • ZeromusZeromus Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Marv Wolfman ranges from mediocre to bad recently.

    Edit: Also, Denny O'Neil's two-parter in Batman and Detective Comics following R.I.P. wasn't bad.

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  • KeithKeith Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    You forgot Jim Starlin who is bad

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    Steam | 3DS: 3497-0691-2891
  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Keith wrote: »
    You forgot Jim Starlin who is bad

    Ohh man, I actually read Death of the New Gods a couple nights ago because I was able to buy it for next to nothing at a videogame/airsoft/comic trade-in shop.

    Terrible, terrible book.

    The only person written in character was Jim Starlin, in his introduction to the book.

  • ZeromusZeromus Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    Keith wrote: »
    You forgot Jim Starlin who is bad

    Ohh man, I actually read Death of the New Gods a couple nights ago because I was able to buy it for next to nothing at a videogame/airsoft/comic trade-in shop.

    Terrible, terrible book.

    The only person written in character was Jim Starlin, in his introduction to the book.

    I was able to flip through someone else's Death of the New Gods and I was literally dumbstruck by it. Like, it is so bad.

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  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    My fear is that he'll be another case of a classic bronze age writer who's just totally lost it, or who can only muster pretty so-so books. See also the recent works of Denny O'Neil, Len Wein, and Chris Claremont.

    And possibly Marv Wolfman. I haven't actually read or heard about any of his recent work.

    You can put Jerry Ordway in that list too. His JSA work was pretty bad.

    Edit: Hey now, Mystery in Space was great.

    On the bright side, Jim Shooter's run on Legion was really good, before Didio fucked him over anyway.

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA
    edited September 2009
    hey is this the bitching thread? it doesn't look like it, so quit bitching!

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  • FaynorFaynor Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    dc thread bitching thread same thing am I right folks

    My thinly veiled comics commentary will really change things around here!!

    do you wanna see me eat a hotdog
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA
    edited September 2009
  • TexiKenTexiKen knowing me knowing Yule a Partridge in a Pear TreeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Faynor wrote: »
    dc thread bitching thread same thing am I right folks

    My thinly veiled comics commentary will really change things around here!!

    It's like Joe Quesada and Steve Wacker put together, everybody run!



    And Jerry Ordway is still good, hen didn't completely mess up Hawkman in one issue like Starlin did. And Shooter's Legion was the best of the new version of the Legion, and I liked how he never pulled punches with Manapul and trying to help him become a better artist.

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  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    TexiKen wrote: »
    And Jerry Ordway is still good, hen didn't completely mess up Hawkman in one issue like Starlin did. And Shooter's Legion was the best of the new version of the Legion, and I liked how he never pulled punches with Manapul and trying to help him become a better artist.

    You can't really blame Starlin for the Hawkman stuff though, editorial were the ones that told him to do it.

    As for Legion, I wouldn't go so far as to say that Shooter's run was the best of the threeboot (I really enjoyed the Dominator War) but yeah, I'd agree that it was really good. That last issue though... I think I had a 3-5 paragraph rant about how fucked up it was.

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • TexiKenTexiKen knowing me knowing Yule a Partridge in a Pear TreeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    It wasn't Shooter so it doesn't count.

    And it was shit. Nothing in the solicit matched what happened in the comic, and Princess Projectra's story just went away. What the hell.


    And DC told Starlin to make Hawkman's Egypt history a fake memory, then verify that memory at the same time with what was happening in Trinity? What the hell editors?

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  • KeithKeith Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I read Superman/Shazam: First Thunder recently. I really enjoyed that, along with Trials of Shazam. I don't know why Judd Winick can't write like that all the time!

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  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Man, Joshua Middleton draws a great Captain Marvel.

    Shame he doesn't do interiors anymore.

  • CarbonRodCarbonRod Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Zeromus wrote: »
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    Keith wrote: »
    You forgot Jim Starlin who is bad

    Ohh man, I actually read Death of the New Gods a couple nights ago because I was able to buy it for next to nothing at a videogame/airsoft/comic trade-in shop.

    Terrible, terrible book.

    The only person written in character was Jim Starlin, in his introduction to the book.

    I was able to flip through someone else's Death of the New Gods and I was literally dumbstruck by it. Like, it is so bad.

    I didn't mind the first half. Good Whodunnit story. But
    Spoiler:
    kinda ruined it for me. Though reading it helped me understand a little of how Darkseid did what he did at the start of Final Crisis

  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    OK, going to try and read Final Crisis today.

    Wish me luck.

  • ZeromusZeromus Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    OK, going to try and read Final Crisis today.

    Wish me luck.

    You won't need it if you aren't a dumb ass.

    :rotate:

    (I bet my rampant Grant Morrison fanboyism makes me really popular here. But really.)

    Are you reading it in the hardcover? With Superman Beyond?

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  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yes, I read the Hardcover in order, and I even stopped and read the Batman issues at the appropriate time.

    It was definitely too much. I was following without a problem for the first five issues, and I thought Submit was really the best part of the entire thing.

    Superman Beyond really confused me in the begining, simply because there didn't seem to be any anchor or continuity in the art until they reach Limbo, so it was difficult to tell what was going on. After that, it kind of repaired itself. However,
    Spoiler:

    Then, as I said, things stay pretty interesting and coherent enough through the fifth issue. Then, when issue six starts, things begin to feel really jumbled and scattered, and really rushed. I was having trouble determining where certain heroes were at, because it seemed like some were popping back and forth between different fronts. And the last issue was just a mess; trying to cap everything off without the space or development to really do so, and in a very sorted and jumbled chronology.

    I feel like I only really read half a story, or maybe half of one story (Darkseid's) and a quarter of another (Monitors). Kind of like Grant Morrison had a plate of left over cosmic DCU ideas, and was really struggling to bring them together in such a short run.

    If it had been just a darkseid story or just a monitor story, for the entire thing, complete and finished, I probably would've loved it.

  • TexiKenTexiKen knowing me knowing Yule a Partridge in a Pear TreeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    The channel surfing idea of FC really hurt it more than helped it.

    There was always a sense with DC that they couldn't tell Morrison "No" when he would try and cram something else into the story after everything was already made up to a certain point in production.

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  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Reading it all together, the channel surfing wasn't really a problem until the storyline felt like it began to lose track of itself.

    It was probably a nightmare in singles, but I really enjoyed it up until the part where I couldn't differentiate the different battlefields and the different resistance groups and whatnot.

  • jkylefultonjkylefulton #1 GB Packer Fan Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Darkseid wearing counterfeit jeans from out of his car-port didn't help much, either.

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  • ZeromusZeromus Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    I thought Submit was really the best part of the entire thing.

    Man what

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  • RansRans Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Zeromus wrote: »
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    I thought Submit was really the best part of the entire thing.

    Man what

    i can sort of understand that. SUBMIT gave a street level view of what it was like to be under the rule of Darkseid, something the main series glazed over. The tone of SUBMIT should have been in every single DC book as a crossover at that time period to give the event some extra weight and wouldn't have felt out of place. Missed opportunity on DC's part.

  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Rans wrote: »
    Zeromus wrote: »
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    I thought Submit was really the best part of the entire thing.

    Man what

    i can sort of understand that. SUBMIT gave a street level view of what it was like to be under the rule of Darkseid, something the main series glazed over. The tone of SUBMIT should have been in every single DC book as a crossover at that time period to give the event some extra weight and wouldn't have felt out of place. Missed opportunity on DC's part.

    Exactly this.

  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    It's kind of a letdown that Final Crisis was more or less brushed off and ignored by all of the ongoings, and now Blackest Night gets to tie into damn near everything.

    Maybe if they had given out anti-life fragments, it could've had the penetration it deserved.

  • TexiKenTexiKen knowing me knowing Yule a Partridge in a Pear TreeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    No they should have infected the internetz and made it really viral marketing!

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I thought they did infect the internetz. Wasn't there that whole thing with Oracle?


    And I agree with Hadji, FC did not really achieve any sort of relevant influence. All the monthlies completely ignored it, and actually, most of the tie-in books completely ignored it too.

    Rogue's Revenge was a good story, but it had nothing to do with FC.

    Revelations was a pretty good Spectre / Supernatural book, but it was barely connected at all. The only thing it had to with FC was that there were a few anti-life zombies that were threatening Renee.

    Legion of Three Worlds wasn't about FC. It was a setup to future DC events and that particular "tie-in" has been more relevant than the core FC story.

    Rage of the Red Lanterns #1 was marketed as an FC tie-in and it has absolutely nothing to do with FC whatsoever.

  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Exactly, Lucascraft.

    And it's been kind of a bummer. Since I started reading all the DC flagship titles monthly, just after FC ended, the only real references I've seen to it have been made by James Robinson.

    One of them was Steel, who was helping to rebuild Metropolis: "That sure was some crisis we had; I sure hope it was the final one."

    The other one is that Cry for Justice trainwreck.

    Also, what the fuck is with aquaman? He's pretty clearly alive at the end there, and they didn't even pull that bit from the collected version.

  • RansRans Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    the aquaman in final crisis was alternatively the new Joseph Aquaman from the OYL reboot... and then later an Aquaman from another Earth.

  • RansRans Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    maybe they were trying to suggest Joseph was from another earth? it was never clear just what they were doing except that Morrison felt that an Aquaman needed to be there.

  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Rans wrote: »
    the aquaman in final crisis was alternatively the new Joseph Aquaman from the OYL reboot... and then later an Aquaman from another Earth.

    So it was an accident that they're trying to cover up?

    Man, why not just pull the panel.

    Did we ever see Aquaman even die? I remember him being a sea crazy in 52.

    Also, what's up with Joe Aquaman these days anyway?

  • TexiKenTexiKen knowing me knowing Yule a Partridge in a Pear TreeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Don't forget the JLA screwup in Meltzer's last issue where they had Joseph appear with J'onn talking about the league where they have Joseph have Arthur's memories of being on the league.

    DC makes it harder than it has to be sometimes.

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I think the real truth is that DC Editorial + Geoff Johns have collectively decided that the lone panel of Aquaman in FC never happened. They wanted Aquaman dead for Blackest Night, so they are conveniently pretending that the panel never happened.

    I'm ok with this, because honestly, a single panel that came out of the blue is a pretty crappy way to resurrect a hero.

  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    They should make Aquaman a reputable character again.

    He can be metal and old school at the same time.

    Then again, I'm sure that's probably on Johns's calendar for somepoint.

    Edit: Damnit, Lucas. The same thing pretty much happened for Barry Allen. He just came back. I know they're sort of explaining it in Rebirth, but not doing the greatest job.

    EditEdit: Morrison heard we like Crises, so he gave our Flash a Flash.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I'd imagine that Arthur Curry will be restored at the end of Blackest Night.

    To be honest, I know nothing about Aquaman. I've never really read any stories about him. I guess this question could be asked in the questions thread but since we're talking about it here, I might as well ask it here:

    Are there any good Aquaman trades that are worth picking up? I really enjoyed his pages so far in Blackest Night, and the event has created some interest in the character. I've never really given him a fair chance, and always just assumed that he was the gay fish lovin' dude that seems to be the stereotype. But his BN pages were pretty awesome and I'm just wondering if there are other awesome stories buried out there that I've never heard of.

  • RansRans Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    they should have just used Joseph Aquaman in FC and had him die at the end of FC and then we could have had two Black Lantern Aquamans and then just resurrected Arthur and we could have forgotten the whole thing happened.

    Personally I don't give a shit about Aquaman. I thought the version from Morrison's JLA run was pretty good and the later magic water hand was okay, but all other versions are lame.

  • TexiKenTexiKen knowing me knowing Yule a Partridge in a Pear TreeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    From what everyone has said the most recent Aquaman series was good.

    DC needs to make Aquaman more like he was in JLA: Earth 2 where he was beating up the Crime Syndicate with J'onn and had his sea army helping out. That was the coolest he's been in a long time.

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  • RansRans Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    the atlanteans should go to war with the amazons for no good reason

  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    He pretty much needs to be a bad ass honorable sea king.

    Some sort of amalgamation between his JLA portrayal under Morrison and his animated appearances in JL/U and Brave and the Bold.

    He's an awesome character in all of those. I think his book would have to be a cross between a mythical, golden Aquaman and a moderate level of under-sea politics.

  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    The Amazons are lame, but having him go to war with a fictional country and skirt the line between hero and terrorist would be very interesting.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    The thing I found most fascinating about the Aquaman pages of Blackest Night is all the magic and power that those characters had. Does Aquaman himself wield magic, or is that something that other people have that are around him?

This discussion has been closed.