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Derren Brown: The Events #4: How to beat a Casino

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  • Teslan26Teslan26 Registered User regular
    darleysam wrote: »

    Yup, this is why I'm fascinated with him. When he's performing a trick like that, everything he's saying and doing is designed to manipulate the person to get the desired result. I find it both awesome and a little terrifying that he can be so disarming and come over one way, when the whole time he's manipulating the thought processes of the person.

    Very much so. I also find the near instant hypnosis trick utterly fearsome, and I simply do not believe there are enough stooges in the world for him to always be using them - especially as some of his 'victims' were celebreties (who, lets face it, couldn't have kept that shit a secret).


    My issue with the split screen is the way the ball gradually moves up - if it were simply cutting a loop then it would be one and then instantly another...

    As for the explanation - bullshit ofc. He is definitely working towards a big payoff at the end, if the seat sticking thing works that alone would be enough to make me start a new religion. He has said too many times that these are a career breaking showpiece.

    Awesome.

    Edit

    Fri 02/10/09 9pm: Derren attempts to beat the odds at roulette, but there is a twist. Someone in the UK is about to get a big surprise as, live on television, they become the unwitting accomplice in Derren's mission to take down a casino.

    Someone mentioned the prevalence of red in this show - I am merely suggesting it could be linked?

    Snowbeat wrote: »
    get out of here, numbername
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    If you read any of Derren's books, you'll see he's actually pretty serious about the philosophy and ethics of his stuff - he doesn't use stooges, he doesn't use his tricks to humiliate people, and he always makes sure the subject of his tricks goes away with something positive from the experience.

    He's actually a really interesting writer and thinker on the subject.

    nemosig.png
  • StrangewaysStrangeways Registered User
    It had to be a split-screen, thinking about it - even hinting that you'd rigged the draw would be enough to have the police on your ass before the next program was on. The prediction was rather too conveniently placed for it not to be. Most of his tricks aren't what they seem - the drawing dupes and picture forces all have backups in place in case the psychological methods, and stuff like "pick a cup to stamp on, but maybe there's a knife/mouse under it" has a whole pre-stunt set-up that kind of makes it impossible for anything to go wrong - but the explanations he offers are infinitely more interesting than the mechanics of the tricks.

    But that's not really the point, of course - the point is Derren Brown most likely got the majority of the country to believe that the National Lottery could be beaten, by hook or by crook. Which is incredible. And it was great telly.

  • Teslan26Teslan26 Registered User regular
    Scroffus wrote: »

    I cannot see the balls that the children are supposed to be holding...

    Snowbeat wrote: »
    get out of here, numbername
  • VistiVisti Registered User regular
    Mmh. The titles of the events remind me so much of that show where he coached that group of people to rob that money transport. Anybody see that? I think he might be pulling a similar manipulation stunt here over the course of the four events, as that is what he does best.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    Teslan26 wrote: »
    Scroffus wrote: »

    I cannot see the balls that the children are supposed to be holding...

    :winky:

    I just feel the whole thing is really odd. A simple camera trick leaves me feeling cheated a little and it's something I'd think is beneath Derren. That and the fact it was coupled with such an easy to see through lie, usually when he lies about a trick he does it in a way that you're not 100% sure on (at least for me anyways).

  • VistiVisti Registered User regular
    I suspect there to be an awesome payoff. I have yet to be disappointed.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    Visti wrote: »
    I suspect there to be an awesome payoff. I have yet to be disappointed.

    I hope so too. He is possibly my favorite magician.

  • VistiVisti Registered User regular
    But does he even classify himself as a magician? That seems very out-of-character for him.

    Also, oh man, terrifying cold reading clown:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btP_vy5cQq4

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    I don't think he does classify himself as a magician but that is essentially what he is. He's a little more open about things being trickery and not some great mystical force. Perhaps illusionist would be a better description?

  • SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    The show was interesting but finding out it was split screen was really disappointing. The two explanations he gave were unsatisfying and it just seems like this trick was beneath him, like others have said. If any other magician had done this prediction show I'd have written it off as a camera trick immediately, but Derren has built up enough of a reputation for not going for these obvious methods that I figured there must have been a much cleverer way of doing it. What's most surprising is that he gave false explanations for the trick. I thought the point of these shows was to actually show how he did the trick in the same way as he did with The System and other tricks like the Subliminal Ad Campaign.

    I really hope the next show is better, as this is a little dent in his reputation for me.

  • summerycleptsummeryclept Registered User
    I haven't watched the reveal yet, can't find it - does he say it's split-screen? It doesn't have to be - lottery predictions are a favorite among mentalists - the only thing special about this one is that it was live, and didn't put the prediction inside of an envelope in a bank vault or something. It's open and fair, the way Brown and Nyman plan his stuff to be, one of the reasons Brown's such a favorite in the magic community.

    Sure, it could be, but I'd say that unless he wants it to be a split-screen for a specific reason, to prove some point for the whole show, that it's not. Like someone said, Derren's got a philosophy behind magic, and this just doesn't jibe with it. Most of the methodology behind his stuff, like most mentalism, is incredibly simple, and if you're trying to figure out the "how," you have to shed all the laser projectors and e-inks and think a lot, lot simpler.

  • SeolSeol Registered User regular
    My theory is the event isn't the lottery trick at all. The event is how people react to his explanation of the lottery trick, and it's part of a longer term setup.

  • ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    I haven't watched the reveal yet, can't find it - does he say it's split-screen? It doesn't have to be - lottery predictions are a favorite among mentalists - the only thing special about this one is that it was live, and didn't put the prediction inside of an envelope in a bank vault or something. It's open and fair, the way Brown and Nyman plan his stuff to be, one of the reasons Brown's such a favorite in the magic community.

    Sure, it could be, but I'd say that unless he wants it to be a split-screen for a specific reason, to prove some point for the whole show, that it's not. Like someone said, Derren's got a philosophy behind magic, and this just doesn't jibe with it. Most of the methodology behind his stuff, like most mentalism, is incredibly simple, and if you're trying to figure out the "how," you have to shed all the laser projectors and e-inks and think a lot, lot simpler.

    You can watch it on 4OD if you're in the UK. If not, see below

    Part 1:
    Part 2:
    Part 3:
    Part 4:
    Part 5:
    Part 6:
    Part 7:

  • darleysamdarleysam Registered User regular
    One thing that's got me thinking about this is that when he's doing a regular trick, it's on one person. His entire performance is to them to get them into the right state of mind where it'll work and they'll go where he wants them to. As the audience watching you can sometimes see the misdirection and the prompting that he's giving, so you can see behind the curtain.

    The thing with this, and in particular this series, is that he's making it clear it's a trick on the nation. Next week he wants to show how to control the nation. As such, everything we see is a part of the trick until he chooses to reveal the strings.

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    darleysam wrote: »
    Jeedan wrote: »
    Theres a Derren Brown trick I accidentally videotaped when he was on a talk show I learned how to replicate. Basically its a mind reading thingy, you get the person to draw something then reveal you know what they've drawn. The guy did a spiral.

    Basically the trick is when Brown is doing his patter he says something like "its not a complex picture like a house or anything very simple shape. clear your mind and it should be growing forward to you now" and at this point he's leaning back in his chair gesticulating and basically drawing a spiral in the air with his hand. Once you've seen and watched the patter a few times you can do it yourself on your friends.

    Basically all his "i knew you were going to do that" tricks work along the same lines I think. If you pick 47 its becasue he suggested you pick 47.

    Yup, this is why I'm fascinated with him. When he's performing a trick like that, everything he's saying and doing is designed to manipulate the person to get the desired result. I find it both awesome and a little terrifying that he can be so disarming and come over one way, when the whole time he's manipulating the thought processes of the person.

    There's this show called Goldmind here on one of the canadian networks here where the host does exactly what you're talking about. He'll go up to random people or set up some situation with random participants, completely screw with them, and then half the time explain exactly how he just ninjaed their mind and played them like a puppet.

    One situation that I can remember had him pull 5 people off the street into a room. On the wall were 5 identical mazes, and he asked everybody to go up and complete it, encouraging them to not really think about it at all, to just go draw randomly until they reach the end. After they're done, it turns out that all 5 people traced the exact same path through their maze. He then explains how he did it. On the wall was some abstract line art that was the exact path through the maze, and during the explaination he also subtley gestured out the route with his hands. And just to rub it in, he takes a closer look at the maze and shows them that had they really looked and thought about it for a second, they would have seen a much simpler path through.

    There was also one involving 3 boxes and about 100 bucks in cash on the line. I forget the details, but it was something like, if you can pick the right box, you keep the money. You can see him totally pointing and showing, and at one point flat out telling one person which box had the money in it. Nobody picked the right one.

    It's a really facinating show. The guy calls himself a "mentalist". Pretty easy to see why.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    I'm guessing this is some kind of setup for something.

    Or he really did fix the lottery. Which would be hilarious.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • VistiVisti Registered User regular
    Seol wrote: »
    My theory is the event isn't the lottery trick at all. The event is how people react to his explanation of the lottery trick, and it's part of a longer term setup.

    I concur.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User
    Teslan26 wrote: »
    My issue with the split screen is the way the ball gradually moves up - if it were simply cutting a loop then it would be one and then instantly another...

    It would be smoother to do a semi-gradual fade-in to re-join the footage.

    There's a couple of videos about this technique:

    pokes: 1505 8032 8399
  • ueanuean Registered User regular
    in for later.... can't see the vids and no tee vee, but this sounds awesome

    Guys? Hay guys?
  • Mr BubblesMr Bubbles David Koresh Superstar Registered User regular
    The guy calls himself a "mentalist". Pretty easy to see why.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV8tciBFpCI

  • darleysamdarleysam Registered User regular
    I can't even view that at work, and I know precisely what clip it is.
    :^:

    I'm going to try and get Friday's show recorded so I can watch it over the weekend, and hopefully not have things spoiled for me.

  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    Disappointing, didnt do anything to me. I also was aware of what he was doing before the film started with the camera zooming in and him saying stick/sticking/stuck about 100 times in one minute. Doesnt work on everyone but was looking forward to it.

    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • ItalaxItalax Registered User
    He said there were no subliminal messages, but I'm sure there was something. I kept seeing a flashing black and white image of a man tied to a chair.

    Didn't get stuck either. :/

    PSN: Italax - Steam ID : Italax
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  • ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    Yeah, it's a shame, I wanted it to work on me but it didn't. Did anyone catch what the subliminal flash message was? Looked a bit like a guy on a seat?

  • RookRook Registered User regular
    I really think the video thing is just a distraction and doesn't have anything to do with it. It's just a case of people wanting to be part of something. Kinda like those preachers who get their congregation to go loopy.

  • RookRook Registered User regular
    Scroffus wrote: »
    Yeah, it's a shame, I wanted it to work on me but it didn't. Did anyone catch what the subliminal flash message was? Looked a bit like a guy on a seat?

    I think the first one was a girl in like a victorian dress on a seat, whilst the second looked like a man on a seat.

  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    Was a guy in a seat, might've been strapped down.

    Overall its just one of those things, it all seemed very fake, theres no explanation why that guys arms raised in the thing for instance and yet this didnt happen to anyone in the theatre. I know thats part of being an illusionist but I assume part of it is tomorrow people will be saying "oh yeah it totally worked on me" even htough it didnt and thus people think it worked really well.
    Rook wrote: »
    I really think the video thing is just a distraction and doesn't have anything to do with it. It's just a case of people wanting to be part of something. Kinda like those preachers who get their congregation to go loopy.


    I was brought out of it straight away because I realised he kept saying stuck and variations thereof before the video even came on to influence you.

    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    Was a guy in a seat, might've been strapped down.

    Overall its just one of those things, it all seemed very fake, theres no explanation why that guys arms raised in the thing for instance and yet this didnt happen to anyone in the theatre. I know thats part of being an illusionist but I assume part of it is tomorrow people will be saying "oh yeah it totally worked on me" even htough it didnt and thus people think it worked really well.

    He did say he was testing different versions of the film. I actually think that's part of the set-up, to get people primed for what type of response they should have.

    edit: oh that total BS bit about the framerate and resolution being needed and putting the video up online won't work, that's the bit that kinda gave it away for me that it's nothing real.

  • chidonachidona Registered User regular
    I was brought out of it straight away because I realised he kept saying stuck and variations thereof before the video even came on to influence you.

    Yeah, it was really IN YOUR FACE that bit. He basically wound you all up and got you really primed, and the flashing images of the man stuck to the chair really just blew this case wide open.

    I just turned over as the thing started as I simply wasn't comfortable doing it, so I dunno if it would've worked on me.

  • RookRook Registered User regular
    Are you really complaining about him trying to influence you, in a show about him trying to influence you?

  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    Well itd be nice if this topic took off more with an example of someone it did work on but without its very hard to believe that it worked on the people in the audience. Theres at least 4 here already that it didnt work on at all. Lol, oh well, I was really looking forward to seeing if it was some really powerful mind-suggestion .

    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    Well itd be nice if this topic took off more with an example of someone it did work on but without its very hard to believe that it worked on the people in the audience. Theres at least 4 here already that it didnt work on at all. Lol, oh well, I was really looking forward to seeing if it was some really powerful mind-suggestion .

    This is one of the few times that Twitter is actually quite useful. There's hardly anyone saying it did work. Although Derren's own twitter thinks slightly differently.

    http://twitter.com/Derrenbrown
    "Apologies to all those it didn't work on! 50k called very stuck, estimate about 10x that affected. Getting different final estimates."

    edit: to be honest, if it "worked" on 5,000 people it would be mind bogglingly impressive.

  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    Rook wrote: »
    Well itd be nice if this topic took off more with an example of someone it did work on but without its very hard to believe that it worked on the people in the audience. Theres at least 4 here already that it didnt work on at all. Lol, oh well, I was really looking forward to seeing if it was some really powerful mind-suggestion .

    This is one of the few times that Twitter is actually quite useful. There's hardly anyone saying it did work. Although Derren's own twitter thinks slightly differently.

    http://twitter.com/Derrenbrown
    "Apologies to all those it didn't work on! 50k called very stuck, estimate about 10x that affected. Getting different final estimates."

    edit: to be honest, if it "worked" on 5,000 people it would be mind bogglingly impressive.

    But compare that to the massive success rate in the studio. I know its in the studio but I think we both agree that the video doesnt actually do anything or doesnt do much, i felt more disorientated during his monologue before the video which I think is the point since youre expecting the video and thus prepared for it.

    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    Rook wrote: »
    Well itd be nice if this topic took off more with an example of someone it did work on but without its very hard to believe that it worked on the people in the audience. Theres at least 4 here already that it didnt work on at all. Lol, oh well, I was really looking forward to seeing if it was some really powerful mind-suggestion .

    This is one of the few times that Twitter is actually quite useful. There's hardly anyone saying it did work. Although Derren's own twitter thinks slightly differently.

    http://twitter.com/Derrenbrown
    "Apologies to all those it didn't work on! 50k called very stuck, estimate about 10x that affected. Getting different final estimates."

    edit: to be honest, if it "worked" on 5,000 people it would be mind bogglingly impressive.

    But compare that to the massive success rate in the studio. I know its in the studio but I think we both agree that the video doesnt actually do anything or doesnt do much, i felt more disorientated during his monologue before the video which I think is the point since youre expecting the video and thus prepared for it.

    Contra zoom shots always look weird and they're rarely used in films so I expect most people are probably fairly unfamiliar with them.

    edit:
    image in the show
    Spoiler:

  • Zilla360Zilla360 Spaaaace! EarthRegistered User regular
    Rook wrote: »
    edit: oh that total BS bit about the framerate and resolution being needed and putting the video up online won't work, that's the bit that kinda gave it away for me that it's nothing real.
    Well, frame-rate yes, resolution no. Flash 10 only supports video at a maximum of 30FPS, if I'm not mistaken.

  • SeolSeol Registered User regular
    I was brought out of it straight away because I realised he kept saying stuck and variations thereof before the video even came on to influence you.
    I think the PWA was, again, a distraction. Knowing what the supposed result is before you even start means you're looking for it, ie you're in the least susceptible state of mind possible. If there was anything subconscious there, it wasn't the repeating theme of being stuck to the chair.

    What I thought was interesting was how prior to the video, the intent of the speech seemed to be to make us want to be stuck to the chair, that being stuck to the chair would be an achievement, something uniquely interesting and something to be proud of. This was then reinforced by the post-video messages against the coloured backgrounds, which started off being all "Relax" and had an increasing emphasis on messages like "Congratulations" and "Well done". I can't shake the suspicion that the messages video was far more important than the supposed sticking video, and again we've got an event where the event itself is a red herring.

  • RookRook Registered User regular
    Zilla360 wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    edit: oh that total BS bit about the framerate and resolution being needed and putting the video up online won't work, that's the bit that kinda gave it away for me that it's nothing real.
    Well, frame-rate yes, resolution no. Flash 10 only supports video at a maximum of 30FPS, if I'm not mistaken.

    I'm fairly sure you can actually do 60fps in flash fine as people have put up 60fps videos on youtube. But I think my point was that was a bit of a hint that the video isn't really anything to do with it.

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