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Derren Brown: The Events #4: How to beat a Casino

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Posts

  • Uncle_BalsamicUncle_Balsamic Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I was pleased with myself in that bit where the bloke writes the numbers on the blocks, cause I got the order by working out which blocks he'd written the numbers on. :)

    Also, the sticking didn't work for me, although I reckon if I really thought myself into it and tried hard, it would have worked. The video was just for atmosphere as far as I can see. The trick is the build up.

    6wVwf51.gif
  • MichaelJWilliamsMichaelJWilliams Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Seol wrote: »
    What I thought was interesting was how prior to the video, the intent of the speech seemed to be to make us want to be stuck to the chair, that being stuck to the chair would be an achievement, something uniquely interesting and something to be proud of. This was then reinforced by the post-video messages against the coloured backgrounds, which started off being all "Relax" and had an increasing emphasis on messages like "Congratulations" and "Well done". I can't shake the suspicion that the messages video was far more important than the supposed sticking video, and again we've got an event where the event itself is a red herring.

    It sounded like hypnotism. In fact the whole thing was very similar to the framework for hypnosis he lays out in his book.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLQFKIK4Tf8

    First he made the viewer open to the idea that it was going to work, through all the adverts over the past week, the videos of previous subjects having strange reactions, and avoiding using the word "hypnotism" at all and instead focusing on this idea of subliminal messages (which he had built up as being effective all through that program).

    I reckon everything he says about this working on talented, creative, bright people is to help this as well. Much better than saying it works on suggestible or gullible people.

    He gets us into a comfortable, relaxed position with the "safety instructions". Because he's on the TV we're already focusing on the screen and on his voice; no need to say "look into my eyes" or get out a pocketwatch like cartoon hypnotists.

    The words he uses before playing the video are laced with presuppositions, like "there'll probably come a point when you'll feel that you're either going to fight it or let it work; when that happens just let yourself go with it..." and, "when you find yourself rigidly stuck, don't panic, just allow yourself to enjoy it, to find it interesting while you try in vain to unstick yourself" as well as the idea that if other people around you aren't affected, this will actually make it work better on you.

    At one point he makes us focus on all the parts of our bodies that are touching the chair and on how heavy they are going to feel (including, interestingly, the tops of our legs) and gets us to breathe deeply a couple of times.

    The film could just be a means of keeping us relaxed, quiet, and focused on a single point for a minute or so, or it might have some additional effect (like how cartoon hypnotists often use a spinning spiral). Or of course it could actually have some sort of weird subliminal message, but I don't see why he'd need that (I think he even says at the end of the show that no subliminal effects were used).

    In his book he actually gives an example of sticking a person's arm to the chair, and it's very similar to what he says after the film:
    Have him try to lift it in a way that presupposes failure on his part. For example, the words 'try as hard as you can to unstick your arm' create a powerful suggestion: now he is putting effort into trying, which presupposes that he won't be able to do it, and the words 'stick your arm' will effectively echo in his mind.

    Then everything he says at the end is much like how he describes bringing someone out of a trance.

  • WillethWilleth Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I do think that the head-on view of him after the homeless piece was intentionally meant to recall hypnotism imagery, if not directly to hypnotise.

    Honestly, though, I'm losing a lot of interest in Derren Brown as a performer. He's at his best when he's working the suggestion angle, like the giraffe or the giving money to the homeless. However, I re-watched an old show he did - the one where everyone ended up at Shepherd's Bush Green - and while a lot of the suggestion and forcing people to pick a certain thing was great, the whole 'I've memorised the Greater London A-Z' schtick really put me off, especially when I noticed that he clearly had a speaker up his sleeve with someone telling him all the grid references.

    Once that key illusion is broken, it's tough to believe anything he does. I have a hard time believing that he doesn't use stooges at all now, even. The guy who picked the green chair is a perfect example of that.

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  • Teslan26Teslan26 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Willeth wrote: »
    I have a hard time believing that he doesn't use stooges at all now, even. The guy who picked the green chair is a perfect example of that.

    But seriously, not one stooge has come forward? I don't believe that is possible.

    Snowbeat wrote: »
    get out of here, numbername
  • MikeRyuMikeRyu Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Didn't work on me or my two friends. I was very suspicious of the slow zoom and the choice of words. I wasn't totally sure if I would stick myself or not because I do tend to just let myself become engrossed in tv and film.

    There seemed to be an attempt to draw the viewer in way before the video and I was quite aware that he would do that. The way that he spoke and the language and "evidence" that he presented felt like he was trying to relax everyone's scepticism and just take everything he was saying as fact.

    If he did manage to actually get some people to stick themselves to their chairs then I'd say that this week's was better than last weeks. At least it had some kind of genuine resolution this time and wasn't just an hour of misinformation.

    Ranmasig5.png
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited September 2009
    Teslan26 wrote: »
    Willeth wrote: »
    I have a hard time believing that he doesn't use stooges at all now, even. The guy who picked the green chair is a perfect example of that.

    But seriously, not one stooge has come forward? I don't believe that is possible.

    I find it hard to believe that someone would be so taken in by imagery they'd give a bum 85£ or their shoes.

    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • WillethWilleth Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Teslan26 wrote: »
    Willeth wrote: »
    I have a hard time believing that he doesn't use stooges at all now, even. The guy who picked the green chair is a perfect example of that.

    But seriously, not one stooge has come forward? I don't believe that is possible.

    There are professional stooges in the Magic Circle.

    @vgreminders - Don't miss out on timed events in gaming!
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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    There are professional stooges in the Magic Circle.

    He hypnotised one of my friends at a stage show (the guy didn't know how hypnotism works, so fell for it hook line and sinker). I think he's genuinely quite a good hypnotist. As far as I can tell, the whole thing was basically him trying to hypnotise the viewers while saying all the time it was other stuff. The white flashes were there to get people to think they were being subliminally messed with to make them more susceptible to the suggestion. He tried to disarm various different attempts at struggling with it with manipulative language (if you watch this without wanting to be stuck to your chair, you have failed), and he primed everybody by showing how people "should" react to the footage.

    I think he did an amazing job even sticking 50k people, and I don't think he used stooges.

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  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Derren takes a pretty skeptical view toward hypnotism - he views it as a kind of localised hysteria, where people mostly allow themselves to enter a "hypnotic state" because they're expecting to enter a hypnotic state. They believe themselves to be hypnotised, so consciously or unconsciously they act out the part of a hypnotised person, based on their expectations. If I remember right, he says the idea that hypnotism accesses a state normally inaccessible to us doesn't really have much scientific backing, and that there's something more subtle, and unconsciously social going on.

    Again, his books are really fascinating on this subject.

    nemosig.png
  • WillethWilleth Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    There are professional stooges in the Magic Circle.

    He hypnotised one of my friends at a stage show (the guy didn't know how hypnotism works, so fell for it hook line and sinker). I think he's genuinely quite a good hypnotist. As far as I can tell, the whole thing was basically him trying to hypnotise the viewers while saying all the time it was other stuff. The white flashes were there to get people to think they were being subliminally messed with to make them more susceptible to the suggestion. He tried to disarm various different attempts at struggling with it with manipulative language (if you watch this without wanting to be stuck to your chair, you have failed), and he primed everybody by showing how people "should" react to the footage.

    I think he did an amazing job even sticking 50k people, and I don't think he used stooges.

    No, you're a stooge! :D

    I realise that if you start thinking that it's all completely fake that you can go far too far, but using plants and actors has been a part of magic since its inception. I'm not saying that he can't use suggestion or 'hypnotism' or whatever in a very limited way, but it's the embellishment and showmanship that really sells everything else - part of which will definitely be actors involved in the production. It's just how magic works.

    He says it all up front at the start of every show. He's a master of it, and I don't resent him for doing it, but the greatest trick he ever did was convincing people he was more than a simple magician.

    @vgreminders - Don't miss out on timed events in gaming!
    @gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    He says it all up front at the start of every show. He's a master of it, and I don't resent him for doing it, but the greatest trick he ever did was convincing people he was more than a simple magician.

    Actually, he always denies using stooges!

    Remember trick or treat? Those were specifically prefaced with him noting that, unusually, these contain some actors (such as the ambulance crews). Normally, he says "I'm tricking you lalalallalaa but I'm not using stooges".
    Derren takes a pretty skeptical view toward hypnotism

    Oh, I know of his opinions about hypnotism. But I'm saying that inasmuch as anybody does hypnotism, what he did that episode was it. While he may not believe in the "hypnotic trance", that doesn't mean he doesn't believe in the power of extreme suggestion!

    obF2Wuw.png
  • AdrienAdrien Registered User
    edited September 2009
    MikeRyu wrote: »
    Didn't work on me or my two friends. I was very suspicious of the slow zoom and the choice of words. I wasn't totally sure if I would stick myself or not because I do tend to just let myself become engrossed in tv and film.

    There seemed to be an attempt to draw the viewer in way before the video and I was quite aware that he would do that. The way that he spoke and the language and "evidence" that he presented felt like he was trying to relax everyone's scepticism and just take everything he was saying as fact.

    If he did manage to actually get some people to stick themselves to their chairs then I'd say that this week's was better than last weeks. At least it had some kind of genuine resolution this time and wasn't just an hour of misinformation.

    Okay, I haven't been following this before now, so let me just see if I've got this right. Basically, this guy gets on national TV and tells the viewers that they are now stuck in their chairs.

    In other words, he just caused half of Britain to stand up out of their chairs at the exact same time.

    tmkm.jpg
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Derren takes a pretty skeptical view toward hypnotism

    Oh, I know of his opinions about hypnotism. But I'm saying that inasmuch as anybody does hypnotism, what he did that episode was it. While he may not believe in the "hypnotic trance", that doesn't mean he doesn't believe in the power of extreme suggestion!

    That's fair enough, you're right. And yeah, extreme suggestion and using outside-the-box manipulation is really his forte - I'm reminded of him doing that greyhound race scam, and then later saying in an interview "Well, the cameras in her face probably helped."

    Also; I keep reading your name as surrealitychick, and now you are inescapably linked in my mind with some girl wearing a Dali mustache.

    nemosig.png
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Also; I keep reading your name as surrealitychick, and now you are inescapably linked in my mind with some girl wearing a Dali mustache.

    Whereas when I read your name I think of that poor drone drifting through space, desperately trying to synthesise a drive engine out of its organic brain :x

    obF2Wuw.png
  • WillethWilleth Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Adrien wrote: »
    In other words, he just caused half of Britain to stand up out of their chairs at the exact same time.

    Hah, that was exactly my thought when the programme started yesterday :)

    @vgreminders - Don't miss out on timed events in gaming!
    @gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Also; I keep reading your name as surrealitychick, and now you are inescapably linked in my mind with some girl wearing a Dali mustache.

    Whereas when I read your name I think of that poor drone drifting through space, desperately trying to synthesise a drive engine out of its organic brain :x

    My name is specifically engineered to induce fear and anxiety in Iain M. Banks fans.
    Spoiler:
    So do we think the semi-failure/semi-success of the chair event is going to affect ratings and attitude toward the final two? Or is everything going to plan?

    nemosig.png
  • MikeRyuMikeRyu Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Willeth wrote: »
    Adrien wrote: »
    In other words, he just caused half of Britain to stand up out of their chairs at the exact same time.

    Hah, that was exactly my thought when the programme started yesterday :)

    Didn't work with us because we recorded it!

    Ranmasig5.png
  • Teslan26Teslan26 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I think that as long as we talk to people who were stuck, and see genuine results, we'll continue watching with the same level of curiosity.

    Myself, I've not spoken to anyone who was. *Shrug*

    But still, yeah, I'll watch until he jumps the shark completely.

    Snowbeat wrote: »
    get out of here, numbername
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited September 2009
    Adrien wrote: »
    MikeRyu wrote: »
    Didn't work on me or my two friends. I was very suspicious of the slow zoom and the choice of words. I wasn't totally sure if I would stick myself or not because I do tend to just let myself become engrossed in tv and film.

    There seemed to be an attempt to draw the viewer in way before the video and I was quite aware that he would do that. The way that he spoke and the language and "evidence" that he presented felt like he was trying to relax everyone's scepticism and just take everything he was saying as fact.

    If he did manage to actually get some people to stick themselves to their chairs then I'd say that this week's was better than last weeks. At least it had some kind of genuine resolution this time and wasn't just an hour of misinformation.

    Okay, I haven't been following this before now, so let me just see if I've got this right. Basically, this guy gets on national TV and tells the viewers that they are now stuck in their chairs.

    In other words, he just caused half of Britain to stand up out of their chairs at the exact same time.

    This is a fair point.

    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Derren takes a pretty skeptical view toward hypnotism - he views it as a kind of localised hysteria, where people mostly allow themselves to enter a "hypnotic state" because they're expecting to enter a hypnotic state. They believe themselves to be hypnotised, so consciously or unconsciously they act out the part of a hypnotised person, based on their expectations. If I remember right, he says the idea that hypnotism accesses a state normally inaccessible to us doesn't really have much scientific backing, and that there's something more subtle, and unconsciously social going on.

    Again, his books are really fascinating on this subject.

    I wouldn't call that skeptical, I'd call that normal. That's an accepted view of hypnosis nowadays.

    I figure I could take a bear.
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited September 2009
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Derren takes a pretty skeptical view toward hypnotism - he views it as a kind of localised hysteria, where people mostly allow themselves to enter a "hypnotic state" because they're expecting to enter a hypnotic state. They believe themselves to be hypnotised, so consciously or unconsciously they act out the part of a hypnotised person, based on their expectations. If I remember right, he says the idea that hypnotism accesses a state normally inaccessible to us doesn't really have much scientific backing, and that there's something more subtle, and unconsciously social going on.

    Again, his books are really fascinating on this subject.

    I wouldn't call that skeptical, I'd call that normal. That's an accepted view of hypnosis nowadays.

    For people knowledgeable on the subject, yes, but it's still a skeptical view, and he explains it quite cleanly and simply for the layman.

    And it's not the common understanding of hypnosis in the mainstream.

    nemosig.png
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive Damn these electric sex pants! Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I didn't watch this, but my boss did, and he said that he definitely felt a pressure to stay sitting down during the show, but when he noticed it he was able to resist it. Apparently, his feet tingled like he had pins and needles, and his heart rate was elevated - anybody else feel that way?

    Another successful post, thanks to the power of Spacestar Ordering™!
  • oddmentoddment Registered User
    edited September 2009
    My legs felt tingly, and I felt heavy before the video was even played... but I stood up no problem. I attribute it to WANTING to be stuck, but realising that it was only me wanting to do that which would cause it to happen... and so it didn't work. Was an interesting show still, am looking forward to seeing what he does next week.

    PSN Sig Hidden Within!*
    Spoiler:
  • CpunkCpunk Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yeah I was totally stuck until I moved my hands off of my knees. Once mentioned the 'protective circle' around my head I started to feel a kind of warm feeling around my neck. Pretty cool.

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Sounds like a reasonable example of how I've heard a lot of hypnotists describe hypnosis and the like. You have to want to accept it or be willing somewhat. If you go in saying "Ok bitch, no way I'm falling for your voodoo, you ain't gonna hypnotize me", then yeah they won't be able to do it.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
    PSN: TheWolfman64 3DS/Pokemon Y: 0774-4614-4065 (Trainer name Christopher)
  • Phil G.Phil G. __BANNED USERS
    edited September 2009
    My hands felt really heavy and weird as I watched it on Youtube. I could stand up though. I realized I wouldn't get stuck, as much as I wanted to.

    I kind of wish pi day would take off like 420 has. I could back a "eat pie at 3:14, erryday" movement.
  • ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    oddment wrote: »
    My legs felt tingly, and I felt heavy before the video was even played... but I stood up no problem. I attribute it to WANTING to be stuck, but realising that it was only me wanting to do that which would cause it to happen... and so it didn't work. Was an interesting show still, am looking forward to seeing what he does next week.

    This pretty much sums up my experiance too.

  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Mr Ray wrote: »
    I will say this though.

    There is no way this fucker is going to glue me to my seat. And if he does, I will eat my own cock.

    Just FYI, my cock remains uneaten.

    Respect for Derren Brown dropping...

    Spoiler:
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive Damn these electric sex pants! Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    He did say that if you were convinced it wouldn't work, then it wasn't going to work. And I imagine the thought of eating your own cock would be a pretty strong incentive to not be stuck :P

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  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo When life gives you lemons... ...eat your delicious lemonsRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I'm fairly sure the trick here must have been making everybody who watched stand up. Personally I'm holding out for some kind of big reveal as this goes on, as so far he's not achieved anything.

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • MikeRyuMikeRyu Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I don't see how that's anything particularly clever though.

    That's like saying "I bet I can make you all lose the power to hop on one foot". He does his thing and everyone hops to check and he says "ha! Got you! I just made you all hop on one foot!"

    So? That wasn't the point.

    Ranmasig5.png
  • SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Just like last time the show was pretty interesting, but mostly stuff we've seen him do before. The main trick itself was disappointing and didn't work for me. I've heard people saying that both wanting it to work and NOT wanting it to work can prevent the effect... so I'm not sure how the best way to approach it would be. I wanted it to work but was pretty skeptical.

    Controlling the nation by making them stand up is no more impressive than controlling the nation by making them sit down and watch the program in the first place. I can't imagine that's going to be the reveal.

  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer I'm Speed Racer and I drive real fast. I drive real fast, I'm gonna last.Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I just watched it on YouTube, it worked for me until the last few seconds of the video. I sat at my computer and couldn't seem to figure out how to stand up. After a few minutes of thinking about it, I realized it was because I didn't want to break the ring around my head that he had told me to imagine, and leaning forward to stand up would do that. After I reminded myself that there wasn't actually a ring around my head I could stand up no problem.

    speedsig2_zps388d2098.jpg
  • The Fourth EstateThe Fourth Estate Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I watched in on the telly; my back and legs started to feel really heavy, but I could stand up at the end. My girlfriend, on the other hand, could move nothing until about 2 minutes after the 'stand up' message.

    steam_sig.png
  • darleysamdarleysam Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    The actual video.. I don't think it contained anything. It was a stereotypical hypnotic image, a swirling picture and some airy music in the background. The stuff about UV imagery being how he controls people subliminally is bollocks, too. However, I do believe that the entire show was to try and get people in a state where they would believe that the video actually did have the power to stick them down. It heaped so much emphasis onto it, all the buildup and tension, the way he was talking before it came on, warnings and disclaimers, even showing you the various effects of it on people (one woman bursting into tears at it, will it have this effect on me?!), and trying to get you stressed out and nervous. Honestly, I kinda felt that way before it came on, but no, it didn't stick me down. However, my girlfriend, sat beside me, said afterwards that she was. I kept asking her if she could stand up and she said "yes, I just don't want to" every time, but couldn't give a reason why. Then afterwards said that she actually couldn't.

    Honestly, it kinda freaked me out.

    But yeah, I don't believe for a second that the video itself contained any power, it was just the final piece needed to sell it.

  • VistiVisti Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I can't get on youtube from here, but could someone please find the video for me where Derren manipulates Simon Pegg into wanting a BMX bike?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    darleysam wrote: »
    But yeah, I don't believe for a second that the video itself contained any power, it was just the final piece needed to sell it.
    Pretty much my theory on it too.

  • saint2esaint2e Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
  • darleysamdarleysam Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    SUPERSUGA wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    But yeah, I don't believe for a second that the video itself contained any power, it was just the final piece needed to sell it.
    Pretty much my theory on it too.

    Especially with the show last week to illustrate how people can be made more manipulable by making them afraid. The rest of the show was a buildup to the video and went a long way to setting the gravity of the scene. I genuinely felt tense before the video started, especially when he was talking to the camera right before it began.

    Then the phonecalls afterwards.. it seemed a bit off that they were played in the background while showing the messages of advice on how to release yourself from the effects.

  • AdrienAdrien Registered User
    edited September 2009
    MikeRyu wrote: »
    I don't see how that's anything particularly clever though.

    That's like saying "I bet I can make you all lose the power to hop on one foot". He does his thing and everyone hops to check and he says "ha! Got you! I just made you all hop on one foot!"

    So? That wasn't the point.

    Well, no, that is the point. How to control the nation: "Lie about your intentions."

    tmkm.jpg
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