Derren Brown: The Events #4: How to beat a Casino

RadioElectric

I found the mouse trick he did in front of the audience almost insultingly simple. It's entirely possible that he intuited or influenced her actions but when you realise there was no mouse, and the only thing that makes the mouse cage a "mouse cage" is the back of a piece of card in front of it you're entering territory of simple card tricks. I mean, come on o_O

Regarding the grand illusion itself:

The Show Itself

Obviously the whole show was designed to put you into a state where you're willing to believe Derren has this "power". The show is also designed to be quite long (though the ad breaks probably frustrate this). How much attention do you pay to how standing up normally feels after you've sat still for an hour?

The Buildup

The buildup to the trick itself, flattering the audience and saying that being stuck is some sort of achievement. That's obviously designed to influence people. I also think the type of people that it will tend to influence will be the people who weren't turned off by his "Deep Maths" bullshit last week. I know it's weird for me to be cross at him but he seems to be doing something totally different with this series and at the moment it doesn't sit right with me at all. I'm HOPING it's that he has a grander trick in his mind, and that it isn't him "selling out".

The Subliminal Messages

They seem very poorly designed to influence anyone. The images are too complicated and way too easy to perceive. You're supposed to spot them and go "Oh my! I do believe I'm being subliminally influenced."

The Video

Is a red herring, in my estimation. I'd like to have a pristine digital version of this episode to look into it but from what I can gather it's purpose was to be the "magic spell" that would make you believe the trick.

The weird thing is, if this does all end up being some bigger trick where the "joke" is on the people who fell for these first two programs, who's the audience? Because I imagine the people he's making into fools will be more upset than impressed and those of us who might appreciate what he's doing are tuning out one by one.

Rook

RadioElectric wrote: »

The weird thing is, if this does all end up being some bigger trick where the "joke" is on the people who fell for these first two programs, who's the audience? Because I imagine the people he's making into fools will be more upset than impressed and those of us who might appreciate what he's doing are tuning out one by one.

I don't think his goal is to trick people, but to offer insight into how and why people behave the way they do. I'm wondering whether all this is leading up to something like the true believer phenomenom or something similar.

Scroffus

Are there any videos out there of Brown failing any tricks or have they never been released?

darleysam

He frequently puts failed attempts in his shows, so yeah, he admits failure.

My big thing for this, as I've said before, is that normally you see him performing tricks on other people. Volunteers, members of the audience, celebrities, all people who aren't you, the audience. You're watching from a safe, external perspective. With this series, however, he's made it clear that we are all in line to be tricked, that he's doing this on the audience. As such, I find it hard to trust anything he says and am constantly waiting for a big reveal that shows what's actually been going on all along.

Deadfall

Scroffus wrote: »

Are there any videos out there of Brown failing any tricks or have they never been released?

There was an episode I saw a while back where he's going around town paying for things with slips of paper, apparently "convincing" store clerks that it was real money.

One guy was all, "That's just paper." Or something like that.

Or am I thinking of the one where he loses the horse race bets and tries to cash them in anyway?

Uncle_Balsamic

He's basically Wolf Messing.

Visti

Deadfall wrote: »

Scroffus wrote: »

Are there any videos out there of Brown failing any tricks or have they never been released?

There was an episode I saw a while back where he's going around town paying for things with slips of paper, apparently "convincing" store clerks that it was real money.

One guy was all, "That's just paper." Or something like that.

Or am I thinking of the one where he loses the horse race bets and tries to cash them in anyway?

No, second one worked. First one, you're right, however he did manage to get the guy to accept it anyway.

The guy was all like "Dude, that's just a piece of paper" and Derren just excused himself and handed the guy the paper again, at which point the man took it and called him an asshole, I believe. The "trick" was one of my favorites, because it's easy to see what he's doing, yet the effectiveness is scary. He basically mimicks the mark's stance and gestures to subliminally gain trust and then tells a short story that culminates in him saying "No, no, it's completely fine, just take it." as he hands the mark the slip of paper.

I believe it went like:

Derren: This is my first time being in this city, where's the nearest subway entrance? Mark points, Derren points with him. Derren: Yeah, I was worried about taking the subway, because I could get lost, but my friend said [..] Derren hands mark slip of paper. Derren: It's fine, it's totally fine, just take it, take it.[/CODE] Classy stuff. The race ticket one is another good one too and one that I know works if you have the balls to do it. A lot of the "hypnosis" with breaking and interrupting a subliminal action is pretty awesome. My favorite is still the one where he hosts that marketing seminar and coaches those people to rob stuff.[CODE]Derren: This is my first time being in this city, where's the nearest subway entrance?

Mark points, Derren points with him.

Derren: Yeah, I was worried about taking the subway, because I could get lost, but my friend said [..]

Derren hands mark slip of paper.

Derren: It's fine, it's totally fine, just take it, take it.[/CODE]

Classy stuff. The race ticket one is another good one too and one that I know works if you have the balls to do it. A lot of the "hypnosis" with breaking and interrupting a subliminal action is pretty awesome.

My favorite is still the one where he hosts that marketing seminar and coaches those people to rob stuff.

darleysam

The paper-instead-of-money one works a lot like the taking-stuff-off-people one, where he asks them directions to somewhere and gives them a brief spiel loaded with words that suggest it's okay for him to take stuff. Then he hands them a bottle of water and says "oh, can I just take your wallet? Thanks" and walks off with their wallet.

Deadfall

darleysam wrote: »

The paper-instead-of-money one works a lot like the taking-stuff-off-people one, where he asks them directions to somewhere and gives them a brief spiel loaded with words that suggest it's okay for him to take stuff. Then he hands them a bottle of water and says "oh, can I just take your wallet? Thanks" and walks off with their wallet.

That one caught me by surprise when I first saw it. The way they just casually took out their wallets or removed their watches and handed them over. And then then looks on their faces as they walked away and slowly realized what just happened.

The one where Derren is asking for directions, and then disrupts the conversation with an enormous picture of himself, which allows a different person to slip in and act like nothing happened was absolutely hilarious. Not the trick, or the reactions, but just the enormous Derren serious-face picture killed me.

Visti

Wait, my girlfriend just reminded me of his live-show "Something wicked this way comes" in which he does a number of subpar tricks and easily detectable manipulations for an entire show in order to cover up a much more subtle and powerful suggestion all the way through the show, influencing the audience. That's basically what I'm thinking these events are, I just didn't remember that he did that exact thing before although on a smaller scale.

uean

Visti wrote: »

Wait, my girlfriend just reminded me of his live-show "Something wicked this way comes" in which he does a number of subpar tricks and easily detectable manipulations for an entire show in order to cover up a much more subtle and powerful suggestion all the way through the show, influating the audience. That's basically what I'm thinking these events are, I just didn't remember that he did that exact thing before although on a smaller scale.

Darren totally influates everyone. All the time.

Seriously, this guy is a genious.

With his influating ways.

area

Deadfall wrote: »

darleysam wrote: »

The paper-instead-of-money one works a lot like the taking-stuff-off-people one, where he asks them directions to somewhere and gives them a brief spiel loaded with words that suggest it's okay for him to take stuff. Then he hands them a bottle of water and says "oh, can I just take your wallet? Thanks" and walks off with their wallet.

That one caught me by surprise when I first saw it. The way they just casually took out their wallets or removed their watches and handed them over. And then then looks on their faces as they walked away and slowly realized what just happened.

I think this might be my favourite thing Derren Brown has done. For those of you that haven't seen it, it's under the spoiler.

Spoiler:

here

EDIT: Oh, Metacafe embeds too. Nice.

MikeRyu

uean wrote: »

Visti wrote: »

Wait, my girlfriend just reminded me of his live-show "Something wicked this way comes" in which he does a number of subpar tricks and easily detectable manipulations for an entire show in order to cover up a much more subtle and powerful suggestion all the way through the show, influating the audience. That's basically what I'm thinking these events are, I just didn't remember that he did that exact thing before although on a smaller scale.

Darren totally influates everyone. All the time.

Seriously, this guy is a genious.

With his influating ways.

I recently had a touch of the influate. I'm better now.

darleysam

Yeah, I kinda want to keep watching to see where this all goes in the end, because I'm still sure it's one big misdirection.

Deadfall

area wrote: »

Deadfall wrote: »

darleysam wrote: »

The paper-instead-of-money one works a lot like the taking-stuff-off-people one, where he asks them directions to somewhere and gives them a brief spiel loaded with words that suggest it's okay for him to take stuff. Then he hands them a bottle of water and says "oh, can I just take your wallet? Thanks" and walks off with their wallet.

That one caught me by surprise when I first saw it. The way they just casually took out their wallets or removed their watches and handed them over. And then then looks on their faces as they walked away and slowly realized what just happened.

I think this might be my favourite thing Derren Brown has done. For those of you that haven't seen it, it's under the spoiler.

Spoiler:

here

EDIT: Oh, Metacafe embeds too. Nice.

Ah hahahaha, oh man I forgot the ending. Brown does it twice to the same mark.

RadioElectric

What did everyone think of tonight's show then?

I'll spoiler my thoughts in case anyone has sky-plussed it or anything.

Spoiler:

Even beyond the ads in the papers (which I didn't read today anyway) there were concentric circles implied in the woman's eyes when she was looking into the camera. It was evident at the end that he must have somehow either influenced her to use stonehenge or "read" from her in their meetings that it's what she drew.

That remote viewing guy they had in was describing most of the tourist-areas of london with his "psychic abilities". The blind guy's skills were impressive, but I wouldn't say they were "paranormal" or even that unexpected (though I had read about guys with similar abilities before so that may have prepared me somewhat).

Influencing that guy though was as impressive as ever, a bit of a recall back to "classic" Derren Brown.

EddieDean

Yeah, that was an interesting show. You could see some of the suggestions he'd placed to get people to see the image, such as in her eyes and behind the covered image on the walls of the museum.

The remote viewing guy, as with all other psychics who claim to be real psychics, was rubbish, but that was kind of Derren's point.

The blind guy's skills I've seen in a couple of places recently (I think there're videos of a blind trials cyclist using the same technique), but are still no less impressive. Not magic, or Derren's usual stuff, but a very impressive little article.

Daxon

I was a bit disappointed to be honest, it really wasn't all that fun to watch. The best bit was with the lightbulb, everything else was kind of expected.

SUPERSUGA

Spoilered for people that want to draw along.

Spoiler:

I did actually draw a train, which lots of other people were saying, as one of my three pictures. The other two weren't related at all. The newspaper twist was sort of interesting in itself but sort of made me feel like I wasn't part of the experiment because I hadn't read a paper that day. The circles in the eyes are really obvious now I think back, I remember at the time thinking that the little reflection of light in her pupils could have been something to try and persuade me.

While I've pretty much enjoyed these shows I think I'd have been just as happy with a 30/45 minute show of the random tricks instead.

Metal Gear Solid 2 Demo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV8tciBFpCI&feature=related

Visti

uean wrote: »

Visti wrote: »

Wait, my girlfriend just reminded me of his live-show "Something wicked this way comes" in which he does a number of subpar tricks and easily detectable manipulations for an entire show in order to cover up a much more subtle and powerful suggestion all the way through the show, influencing the audience. That's basically what I'm thinking these events are, I just didn't remember that he did that exact thing before although on a smaller scale.

Darren totally influates everyone. All the time.

Seriously, this guy is a genious.

With his influating ways.

Damn yooooou!

Teslan26

Latest show. He failed.

Got within one slot. Surprised, yet something does not add up.

Could you really get a camera into a casino without being found out? I do not believe so. And the roulette wheel video looked wrong.

On top of which, since when could you walk into Lloyds bank and withdraw 5k in cash without prior arrangement - hint: You can't.

This one does not seem to hold up.

SUPERSUGA

Tonight's show didn't really have many good bits in for me. The tricks in the studio were pretty much what we've seen before and the explaining of the roulette prediction was pretty hollow.

I imagine it was a fake casino. Likely to be an actor as Ben too.

Being one out from his bet has the benefits of making it look like he was close without actually having to claim the £175,000. The trick failing also serves makes it feel more real in some ways.

Since the camera trick on the lottery show was exposed I've sort of lost my ability to go along with most of Derren's stuff. Overall this series has had some good bits but the end result is pretty disappointing, as I've loved most of his previous stuff. Of course, I found the russian roulette and seance stuff to be let downs in the past, so I'm hoping he'll get back on form like before.

DarkWarrior

When was the lotto trick exposed? That was just speculation wasn't it?

JAmp5

Spoiler:

The crappy fake camera static was what did it for me.

:?

TubularLuggage

JAmp5 wrote: »

Spoiler:

The crappy fake camera static was what did it for me.

:?

Again, when was it shown that this was what he did.

Oh, right, it wasn't.

SUPERSUGA

The Lotto camera trick has been next to confirmed by various youtube people, where you can see one of the balls move as the frozen image is blended back into the new one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urMT8h-3qpc

I mean it's still a clever trick and all, it's just not what I expect from him.

EddieDean

It... went wrong? Maybe he intended it to, but still, that ended on a bit of a downer!

SUPERSUGA

I imagine it ended exactly as planned, but it's still a weird feeling to end the series on.

JAmp5

TubularLuggage wrote: »

JAmp5 wrote: »

Spoiler:

The crappy fake camera static was what did it for me.

:?

Again, when was it shown that this was what he did.

Oh, right, it wasn't.

Well the timing on the camera static off the hidden camera, to me, looked fake. I present you with mere opinion not solid fact.

Spoiler:

Also, said cameras weren't that small and the obvious unusual way he was holding his hand and wrist in the above shot of him placing the bet looked very unusual. I'm sure a dealer would have picked up on that.

Teslan26

darleysam wrote: »

Yeah, I kinda want to keep watching to see where this all goes in the end, because I'm still sure it's one big misdirection.

I'm still hoping for this even though it is over....

cliffski

I was amazed he failed. Not because for one millisecond do i think he can correct;y guess where a flipping roulette ball lands, but because he is Derren! he never fails!
Maybe it was a deliberate thing, after the lottery one, because too many people just said "camera trick! scam!" and he doesn't want people to think he is just fixing everything.

The times when DB is at his best are when he influences people to make the choices he wants. if anyone has not seen him get simon pegg to say what he wants for his birthday (it was repeated recently) that's a really good one, as is the one where he influences the people at the ad agency.

I'm still a fan, but this series hasn't been his best.

SUPERSUGA

Personally I like it best when he actually explains how he does things, or at least lets us in on his side of things. Good examples are The System, any of the smaller tricks he does where you can watch again and notice the subliminal messages and the seance where he at least lets us in on the trick at the end.

Marty81

SUPERSUGA wrote: »

The Lotto camera trick has been next to confirmed by various youtube people, where you can see one of the balls move as the frozen image is blended back into the new one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urMT8h-3qpc

I mean it's still a clever trick and all, it's just not what I expect from him.

I'm hoping that he intended people to make youtube videos like this and it's all part of a bigger plan.

SUPERSUGA

The only chance I think we have of there being a twist on this is his advertised web series "The Science of Scandals" or whatever. There was an ad for it straight after the last episode of The Events, but I forget when it launches.

To be honest I think we've gotten all we're getting.

A1monkey

There were just so many tell tales in the casino. The thing you've got to do is to constantly remind yourself that Brown has absolutely no 'rain main' type skills, that there is no mind reading or any kind of supernatural ability in the slightest, and furthermore that ALL the talk of physics, maths, or any appeal to science at all is fraudulent: the whole thing is just magic with all its trickery stepped up to a new level by the use of camera tricks and editing, along with the all-important contracts that anyone volunteering for the big events surely has to sign (stating that they won't talk about what happens to them: ie won't talk to the media about the things that Derren Brown says on tv which aren't true or which haven't happened in the way he says to the millions). A few pretty obvious things about the casino: 1) the casino was fake. 2) he lost for two reasons: firstly so that he or the bbc or whoever funds the program didn't have to pay £180,000 to Ben and secondly for the added bonus of creating a sense of reality - he nearly got there which is still 'amazing' and showed it which is 'honest' etc.etc. 3) Ben didn't withdraw £5,000 from his bank, and was probably asked to do something else while he was 'under' which has been edited to look like he got the £5,000. Derren saying 'check your bank statement' is just rubbish: The money didn't come out but Ben couldn't check it then and there and when he finds out nothing happened he's not on camera AND bound by confidentiality - I don't think he was an actor. Also in the show was a trick about a loser and a winner and the winner won £20: all Derren Brown has to do is to introduce the message on the money in a different way (ie 'she always loses, there my last instruction is for you to give her the money) and the essence of the trick still stands but the only change is in the sense of Derren being charitable or Derren being hard-nosed.
It's been quite difficult to totally disentangle any sense of the 'supernatural' from Derren Brown's act, but now that I've got the bug, I can't stop! It's all a great show and in the end he is no different from any magician that has ever walked the earth: he is simply using all opportunities available to pull the wool over the audience's eyes, and these days there's plenty of wool (with film cameras and editing etc). Most of the times when he 'tells' the trick it's fake, but sometimes he mixes in a real explanation, again aimed at rubbing off a little on the rest of the 'fake' explanations. A master of confusion, but it's all boiled over a little and I personally think a lot of his stuff just falls apart too easily now as he is over-exposed.

Mazer Rackham

Was Derren ready to die that one time he did that revolver trick

Speed Racer

I just watched that Russian roulette video. Holy shit.

Crimson King

Deadfall wrote: »

Ah hahahaha, oh man I forgot the ending. Brown does it twice to the same mark.

So, um, how is it we know this guy isn't just being paid to say that? Other then the fact that Derren says he doesn't do that kind of thing?

Daxon

Derren Brown couldn't just have paid people to do stuff like this all the time. Someone WOULD say that they were an actor and paid to do it - especially cause Derren Brown is so big; it'd be fucking glorious to "bring him down".