Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Alan Turing Finally Gets His Apology

2

Posts

  • StrangewaysStrangeways Registered User
    edited September 2009
    I'll be sure to tell him when I walk past his statue tomorrow.

    Stuff like this always just seems like a tokenistic gesture to me. I know it's important to acknowledge past ills, but it doesn't change anything and when it's been this long after the fact, I do wonder what an apology even means when it comes from somebody who was only 3 when Turing died. Although in this case it might provide Stonewall with a platform to discuss current gay rights issues, which would be a good thing.

    Strangeways on
  • WerewulfyWerewulfy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Wow, I, uh, didn't really know anything about Turing save the whole "Turing test" thing. I kinda knew he was involved with code stuff, but really didn't know the extent.

    I also had no idea about his sexuality, persecution, or death.

    It's a good thing to know, albeit not a very happy one.

    Werewulfy on
  • MrMisterMrMister Valuing scholarship above all elseRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I'm glad I'm alive now. I can't imagine being presented with such a grotesque choice.

    I imagine that it would go for me much the way it did for him.

    And as to the value of the apology, in this case I think it consists in both publicizing the unfortunate history and in vocalizing a commitment to a better society.

    MrMister on
  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.

    Æthelred on
    pokes: 1505 8032 8399
  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    MrMister wrote: »
    And as to the value of the apology, in this case I think it consists in both publicizing the unfortunate history and in vocalizing a commitment to a better society.
    Pretty much this. Nothing is going to fix what happened to Turing. The government, however, can make it clear that what happened was wrong and should never happen to anyone again.

    Quid on
  • ChanusChanus Never Backward Always ForwardRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    MrMister wrote: »
    And as to the value of the apology, in this case I think it consists in both publicizing the unfortunate history and in vocalizing a commitment to a better society.

    Pretty spot on. It doesn't do a bit of good for Mr. Turing personally, of course... but, even judging by how many people in this thread have suddenly become aware of the grotesque and egregious policies of the past, it's resulting in awareness.

    Awareness is a good first step toward making a better world.

    Chanus on
    D&D [chat] names list for games
    XCOM Name File with [chat] First Names - All Countries, M&F | Or Shivahn's with gendered names
    Blueberrywerewlf on the Sony Anime Games Box | BluberryWerewlf on the BroBone
    **PUUUUUUNCH**
  • StrangewaysStrangeways Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Æthelred wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.

    Oh for sure, I'm not saying it's pointless because it definitely isn't, I just always find it slightly sad that a man has to wait over fifty years for an apology about something as bogus as being prosecuted for being gay (especially when the man in question has been dead for the overwhelming majority of that time).

    And whoever said his statue in Sackville Park is rad - it totally is, and is usually surrounded by girls taking pictures. Turing is a total pussy magnet.

    Strangeways on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    EDIT: Whoops, whoops.

    emnmnme on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    MrMister wrote: »
    I approve of the lesser-known fact about Turing's prosecution and death being brought into wider circulation.

    i think that's a good thing too actually

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Æthelred wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.

    Yeah, but I have to agree with Elldren. It would have just been better coming from Blair at the height of his decade as PM rather than Brown not long before his getting ousted. Thatcher doing it would have been even better.

    moniker on
    tea-1.jpg
  • StrangewaysStrangeways Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Has Cameron apologized for it yet?

    Strangeways on
  • cyphrcyphr Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I'm also glad that this is bringing Turing's persecution, as well as his accomplishments into the public eye, even briefly. Several people have posted already that they didn't know he did anything besides the Turing Test or Turing Machines.

    I really believe that at some point in the future, Turing will be considered by historians as much an important and revolutionary figure as Gutenberg was. The man basically single-handedly laid the foundations for the interconnected 21st century world, and created an entirely new field of science in the process.

    cyphr on
    steam_sig.png
  • RingoRingo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Trying so hard not to make a Short Circuit joke here.

    Didn't know this about Turing. Hell, didn't know that the UK did chemical castration.

    Ringo on
    ceres wrote: »
    I'm just going to go ahead and lock this thread before I feel any worse about humanity.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG now featured at the Exigency Forum
  • TincheTinche No dog food for Victor tonight. Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Heh, all these years I kept thinking the Apple logo was a homage to Turing, but Wikipedia says it's not. Too bad, would've been cooler if it was true.

    Tinche on
    We're marooned on a small island, in an endless sea,
    Confined to a tiny spit of sand, unable to escape,
    But tonight, it's heavy stuff.
  • TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    MrMister wrote: »
    I approve of the lesser-known fact about Turing's prosecution and death being brought into wider circulation.

    i think that's a good thing too actually

    I had no idea. This is absolutely horrible.

    Tarranon on
  • MrMisterMrMister Valuing scholarship above all elseRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Tinche wrote: »
    Heh, all these years I kept thinking the Apple logo was a homage to Turing, but Wikipedia says it's not. Too bad, would've been cooler if it was true.

    I always liked that urban legend, even though i knew it was false.

    MrMister on
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Tinche wrote: »
    Heh, all these years I kept thinking the Apple logo was a homage to Turing, but Wikipedia says it's not. Too bad, would've been cooler if it was true.

    Damn, I was coming in here to say something about the Apple logo. Well, ignorance fought. At least the other aspects of his death that I knew about (he wanted to leave his death ambiguous to give his mother plausible deniability; the apple was a reference to Snow White, his favourite fairy tale) are, if not true, possible interpretations.

    Rhesus Positive on
    Another successful post, thanks to the power of Spacestar Ordering™!
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    moniker wrote: »
    Æthelred wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.

    Yeah, but I have to agree with Elldren. It would have just been better coming from Blair at the height of his decade as PM rather than Brown not long before his getting ousted. Thatcher doing it would have been even better.
    Are we talking about the Thatcher that wanted to put gays in camps to combat HIV? That Thatcher?

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Signing a petition has it's advantages.
    Thank you for signing this petition. The Prime Minister has written a
    response. Please read below.

    Prime Minister: 2009 has been a year of deep reflection – a chance for
    Britain, as a nation, to commemorate the profound debts we owe to those who
    came before. A unique combination of anniversaries and events have stirred
    in us that sense of pride and gratitude which characterise the British
    experience. Earlier this year I stood with Presidents Sarkozy and Obama to
    honour the service and the sacrifice of the heroes who stormed the beaches
    of Normandy 65 years ago. And just last week, we marked the 70 years which
    have passed since the British government declared its willingness to take
    up arms against Fascism and declared the outbreak of World War Two. So I am
    both pleased and proud that, thanks to a coalition of computer scientists,
    historians and LGBT activists, we have this year a chance to mark and
    celebrate another contribution to Britain’s fight against the darkness of
    dictatorship; that of code-breaker Alan Turing.

    Turing was a quite brilliant mathematician, most famous for his work on
    breaking the German Enigma codes. It is no exaggeration to say that,
    without his outstanding contribution, the history of World War Two could
    well have been very different. He truly was one of those individuals we can
    point to whose unique contribution helped to turn the tide of war. The debt
    of gratitude he is owed makes it all the more horrifying, therefore, that
    he was treated so inhumanely. In 1952, he was convicted of ‘gross
    indecency’ – in effect, tried for being gay. His sentence – and he
    was faced with the miserable choice of this or prison - was chemical
    castration by a series of injections of female hormones. He took his own
    life just two years later.

    Thousands of people have come together to demand justice for Alan Turing
    and recognition of the appalling way he was treated. While Turing was dealt
    with under the law of the time and we can't put the clock back, his
    treatment was of course utterly unfair and I am pleased to have the chance
    to say how deeply sorry I and we all are for what happened to him. Alan and
    the many thousands of other gay men who were convicted as he was convicted
    under homophobic laws were treated terribly. Over the years millions more
    lived in fear of conviction.

    I am proud that those days are gone and that in the last 12 years this
    government has done so much to make life fairer and more equal for our LGBT
    community. This recognition of Alan’s status as one of Britain’s most
    famous victims of homophobia is another step towards equality and long
    overdue.

    But even more than that, Alan deserves recognition for his contribution to
    humankind. For those of us born after 1945, into a Europe which is united,
    democratic and at peace, it is hard to imagine that our continent was once
    the theatre of mankind’s darkest hour. It is difficult to believe that in
    living memory, people could become so consumed by hate – by
    anti-Semitism, by homophobia, by xenophobia and other murderous prejudices
    – that the gas chambers and crematoria became a piece of the European
    landscape as surely as the galleries and universities and concert halls
    which had marked out the European civilisation for hundreds of years. It is
    thanks to men and women who were totally committed to fighting fascism,
    people like Alan Turing, that the horrors of the Holocaust and of total war
    are part of Europe’s history and not Europe’s present.

    So on behalf of the British government, and all those who live freely
    thanks to Alan’s work I am very proud to say: we’re sorry, you deserved
    so much better.

    Gordon Brown

    BobCesca on
  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo You're getting a Waluigi amiibo. Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited September 2009
    So the penalty for homosexuality in the UK at that time was prison or having your wang dissolved?

    That's all 31 flavors of fucked up.

    Bobkins Flymo on
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    So the penalty for homosexuality in the UK at that time was prison or having your wang dissolved?

    That's all 31 flavors of fucked up.

    Well, I think it's just balls dissolved.

    So only 30 flavors of fucked up. With crushed nuts.

    KalTorak on
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yeah luckily Turing's prosecution and suicide/murder were part of the dang curriculum in the CS department at my school. It's always interesting how many people have a passing familiarity with the man but no clue about his sexuality and death. You'd just think that'd always be part of the story.

    Yar on
  • ElkiElki learned nothing, and forgotten nothing Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2009
    Debate battles!

    That's where I learned of his existence.

    Elki on
    cUDCKQq.jpg
  • DelzhandDelzhand Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Æthelred wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.

    And whoever said his statue in Sackville Park is rad - it totally is, and is usually surrounded by girls taking pictures. Turing is a total pussy magnet.

    That is remarkably sad.

    Delzhand on
    Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward - November Elzhand (Sargatanas)
  • AJAlkaline40AJAlkaline40 __BANNED USERS
    edited September 2009
    BobCesca wrote: »
    Signing a petition has it's advantages.
    Thank you for signing this petition. The Prime Minister has written a
    response. Please read below.

    Prime Minister: 2009 has been a year of deep reflection – a chance for
    Britain, as a nation, to commemorate the profound debts we owe to those who
    came before. A unique combination of anniversaries and events have stirred
    in us that sense of pride and gratitude which characterise the British
    experience. Earlier this year I stood with Presidents Sarkozy and Obama to
    honour the service and the sacrifice of the heroes who stormed the beaches
    of Normandy 65 years ago. And just last week, we marked the 70 years which
    have passed since the British government declared its willingness to take
    up arms against Fascism and declared the outbreak of World War Two. So I am
    both pleased and proud that, thanks to a coalition of computer scientists,
    historians and LGBT activists, we have this year a chance to mark and
    celebrate another contribution to Britain’s fight against the darkness of
    dictatorship; that of code-breaker Alan Turing.

    Turing was a quite brilliant mathematician, most famous for his work on
    breaking the German Enigma codes. It is no exaggeration to say that,
    without his outstanding contribution, the history of World War Two could
    well have been very different. He truly was one of those individuals we can
    point to whose unique contribution helped to turn the tide of war. The debt
    of gratitude he is owed makes it all the more horrifying, therefore, that
    he was treated so inhumanely. In 1952, he was convicted of ‘gross
    indecency’ – in effect, tried for being gay. His sentence – and he
    was faced with the miserable choice of this or prison - was chemical
    castration by a series of injections of female hormones. He took his own
    life just two years later.

    Thousands of people have come together to demand justice for Alan Turing
    and recognition of the appalling way he was treated. While Turing was dealt
    with under the law of the time and we can't put the clock back, his
    treatment was of course utterly unfair and I am pleased to have the chance
    to say how deeply sorry I and we all are for what happened to him. Alan and
    the many thousands of other gay men who were convicted as he was convicted
    under homophobic laws were treated terribly. Over the years millions more
    lived in fear of conviction.

    I am proud that those days are gone and that in the last 12 years this
    government has done so much to make life fairer and more equal for our LGBT
    community. This recognition of Alan’s status as one of Britain’s most
    famous victims of homophobia is another step towards equality and long
    overdue.

    But even more than that, Alan deserves recognition for his contribution to
    humankind. For those of us born after 1945, into a Europe which is united,
    democratic and at peace, it is hard to imagine that our continent was once
    the theatre of mankind’s darkest hour. It is difficult to believe that in
    living memory, people could become so consumed by hate – by
    anti-Semitism, by homophobia, by xenophobia and other murderous prejudices
    – that the gas chambers and crematoria became a piece of the European
    landscape as surely as the galleries and universities and concert halls
    which had marked out the European civilisation for hundreds of years. It is
    thanks to men and women who were totally committed to fighting fascism,
    people like Alan Turing, that the horrors of the Holocaust and of total war
    are part of Europe’s history and not Europe’s present.

    So on behalf of the British government, and all those who live freely
    thanks to Alan’s work I am very proud to say: we’re sorry, you deserved
    so much better.

    Gordon Brown

    Wow, I honestly teared up a bit at that.

    Mark me down as someone who respected Turing but had no idea about his tragic demise.

    AJAlkaline40 on
    idiot.jpg
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Æthelred wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.

    And whoever said his statue in Sackville Park is rad - it totally is, and is usually surrounded by girls taking pictures. Turing is a total pussy magnet.

    That is remarkably sad.

    Hahaha. Well, this just means good looking dudes need to step up.

    durandal4532 on
    camo_sig2.png
  • Jason ToddJason Todd Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    As others have said, I had no idea about Turing's sexuality or suicide before today

    Jason Todd on
    filefile.jpg
  • mantidormantidor Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Wow, I'm glad they did it, I wasn't hopeful to be honest. Iit really doesn't do much to lessen the tragedy, but as has been said making his story more known is always a good thing.

    I studied Turing for years for my thesis and my master degree and I had no clue about it until I read the dedicatory of a book to "the tragic end of Alan Turing" which intrigued me and made search his biography. Boy was I shocked, as the gay computer nerd I am it had an even bigger impact.

    mantidor on
  • FeralFeral That's what I do. I drink, and I know things. Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    MrMister wrote: »
    I approve of the lesser-known fact about Turing's prosecution and death being brought into wider circulation.

    Seriously.

    As somebody else said: Gay dude saves western civilization, gets persecuted and driven to suicide for being gay.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • SkyGheNeSkyGheNe Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yar wrote: »
    Yeah luckily Turing's prosecution and suicide/murder were part of the dang curriculum in the CS department at my school. It's always interesting how many people have a passing familiarity with the man but no clue about his sexuality and death. You'd just think that'd always be part of the story.

    As one of my engineering friends would idiotically say,

    "His science is what matters."

    SkyGheNe on
  • FeralFeral That's what I do. I drink, and I know things. Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I'm happy to see this but it is true that he deserves a fucking monument, not just a written apology.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • THEPAIN73THEPAIN73 Shiny. Real shiny.Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    When I read stuff like that.

    It shows how far we have come.

    And how far we have to go.

    THEPAIN73 on
    Facebook | Amazon | Twitter | Youtube | PSN: ThePain73 | Steam: ThePain73
    3DS FC: 5343-7720-0490
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Feral wrote: »
    I'm happy to see this but it is true that he deserves a fucking monument, not just a written apology.

    He has several.

    moniker on
    tea-1.jpg
  • ChanusChanus Never Backward Always ForwardRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    moniker wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    I'm happy to see this but it is true that he deserves a fucking monument, not just a written apology.

    He has several.

    I'm a huge fan of the one of him on the park bench posted earlier in the thread. The subtle "Fuck you" in his hand is brilliant.

    Chanus on
    D&D [chat] names list for games
    XCOM Name File with [chat] First Names - All Countries, M&F | Or Shivahn's with gendered names
    Blueberrywerewlf on the Sony Anime Games Box | BluberryWerewlf on the BroBone
    **PUUUUUUNCH**
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    I'm happy to see this but it is true that he deserves a fucking monument, not just a written apology.

    He has several.

    I'm a huge fan of the one of him on the park bench posted earlier in the thread. The subtle "Fuck you" in his hand is brilliant.

    Someone mentioned this before, I seem to be missing something. It's an apple, right? I don't get it.

    KalTorak on
  • AJAlkaline40AJAlkaline40 __BANNED USERS
    edited September 2009
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    I'm happy to see this but it is true that he deserves a fucking monument, not just a written apology.

    He has several.

    I'm a huge fan of the one of him on the park bench posted earlier in the thread. The subtle "Fuck you" in his hand is brilliant.

    Someone mentioned this before, I seem to be missing something. It's an apple, right? I don't get it.

    He committed suicide by eating a poisoned apple.

    AJAlkaline40 on
    idiot.jpg
  • mantidormantidor Registered User
    edited September 2009
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    I'm happy to see this but it is true that he deserves a fucking monument, not just a written apology.

    He has several.

    I'm a huge fan of the one of him on the park bench posted earlier in the thread. The subtle "Fuck you" in his hand is brilliant.

    Someone mentioned this before, I seem to be missing something. It's an apple, right? I don't get it.


    He killed himself by eating a poisoned apple.

    EDIT: beaten.

    From what I've read, he was a huge fan of Disney's Snow white.

    mantidor on
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ahhhhhhhh.

    KalTorak on
  • Brian888Brian888 Registered User
    edited September 2009
    The Cat wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Æthelred wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.

    Yeah, but I have to agree with Elldren. It would have just been better coming from Blair at the height of his decade as PM rather than Brown not long before his getting ousted. Thatcher doing it would have been even better.
    Are we talking about the Thatcher that wanted to put gays in camps to combat HIV? That Thatcher?


    Cat posted before I could, but yes, Thatcher would have gargled broken glass before apologizing to Turing.

    Brian888 on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Brian888 wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Æthelred wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with tokens. Tokens are pretty important.

    Yeah, but I have to agree with Elldren. It would have just been better coming from Blair at the height of his decade as PM rather than Brown not long before his getting ousted. Thatcher doing it would have been even better.
    Are we talking about the Thatcher that wanted to put gays in camps to combat HIV? That Thatcher?


    Cat posted before I could, but yes, Thatcher would have gargled broken glass before apologizing to Turing.

    Which is why it would have been all the more impressive than Brown doing it now right before turning out the lights in #10.

    moniker on
    tea-1.jpg
2
Sign In or Register to comment.