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Boobytrapping software for filesharing sites

12346

Posts

  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    Sorry I just don't get the whole point of replacing your game with a utility that asks you 3 times if you want to delete your windows directory. Okay, sure, no one will be dumb enough to do it, but then why do you have it in the first place? Why don't you just have some amusing, annoying program that irritates everyone who's pirated your game, rather than having a potentially incredibly severe consequence that probably won't actually apply to most people? Do you hate people who don't read dialogs? I mean, that's the only reason that makes any sense.

    I mean, couldn't you just take a branch of your game source, screw around with it and put bugs in it, then make a custom build and put that out onto torrent sites?

    No, because that would take more than 5 minutes to do.

    Well you were talking about how great it would be to have pirates run into those bugs, but how you couldn't since you don't have piracy detection logic in your game. I was pointing out how you in fact could, quite easily have pirates run into those bugs.

    And I'm just confused about your motivations in general for the choice of program. After they've downloaded the non-game, you've already wasted their time. I don't get the whole "hey, while I've got them here, let's screw up their computer if they click through these dialog boxes." Do you feel that all people who have downloaded a pirated game deserve to have their windows install wiped, but think you need the confirmations to legally protect you? Do you hate people that just click "yes" on every dialog box? Or did you just not want to bother removing the prompts from the program?

    Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
  • SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ego wrote: »
    Nobody here is actually a lawyer. Unless that specific instance has been tested in court, it is in limbo. Likewise, how explicit do you have to get before it's not illegal? The answer is, somebody will have to sue somebody else and find out.
    So in other words, Fyrewulf shouldn't be so confident that he's in the legal clear? Because software pretending to be a game isn't exactly straightforwardly announcing that it's on par with drive-cleaner utilities...
    He's convinced it's legal, and we're convinced he's an ass. It's a matter of public record what games he makes, so let's just keep an eye open and see if he does ever get sued - that'd be a win for everyone!

  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    Sorry I just don't get the whole point of replacing your game with a utility that asks you 3 times if you want to delete your windows directory. Okay, sure, no one will be dumb enough to do it, but then why do you have it in the first place? Why don't you just have some amusing, annoying program that irritates everyone who's pirated your game, rather than having a potentially incredibly severe consequence that probably won't actually apply to most people? Do you hate people who don't read dialogs? I mean, that's the only reason that makes any sense.

    I mean, couldn't you just take a branch of your game source, screw around with it and put bugs in it, then make a custom build and put that out onto torrent sites?

    No, because that would take more than 5 minutes to do.

    Well you were talking about how great it would be to have pirates run into those bugs, but how you couldn't since you don't have piracy detection logic in your game. I was pointing out how you in fact could, quite easily have pirates run into those bugs.

    And I'm just confused about your motivations in general for the choice of program. After they've downloaded the non-game, you've already wasted their time. I don't get the whole "hey, while I've got them here, let's screw up their computer if they click through these dialog boxes." Do you feel that all people who have downloaded a pirated game deserve to have their windows install wiped, but think you need the confirmations to legally protect you? Do you hate people that just click "yes" on every dialog box? Or did you just not want to bother removing the prompts from the program?

    If you had read the thread, you would have noticed that I said I can't afford the fancy piracy detection stuff, it's impossible for anything to happen by just clicking "yes" (the answers to continue keep switching), and I did it to give them a bit of a scare before they ALT-F4 out of the program. The deletion part doesn't even work on Vista/7 anymore, either.
    Seol wrote: »
    Ego wrote: »
    Nobody here is actually a lawyer. Unless that specific instance has been tested in court, it is in limbo. Likewise, how explicit do you have to get before it's not illegal? The answer is, somebody will have to sue somebody else and find out.
    So in other words, Fyrewulf shouldn't be so confident that he's in the legal clear? Because software pretending to be a game isn't exactly straightforwardly announcing that it's on par with drive-cleaner utilities...
    He's convinced it's legal, and we're convinced he's an ass. It's a matter of public record what games he makes, so let's just keep an eye open and see if he does ever get sued - that'd be a win for everyone!

    Good thing I will never be sued, and if I do I will win the case before they even knew what hit them. Also, I have actually paid a lawyer with, you know, money, to consult and help me reword the dialogs a bit. I'm not "convinced", I know. Confidence is a wonderful thing.

    So far people have continued to yell "illegal!", when I asked them to prove it, I had two laws put out in front of me, and then I proceeded to point out why neither law applied to what I'm doing. So now it's just an argument of opinion.

  • artifexiteartifexite Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I wonder if the people who invented dye packs for banks had these sorts of arguments.

    "They'll only get ink on them if they rob the bank!"
    "Giving someone timed explosives is basically assault!"

    Etc.

  • SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    Sorry I just don't get the whole point of replacing your game with a utility that asks you 3 times if you want to delete your windows directory. Okay, sure, no one will be dumb enough to do it, but then why do you have it in the first place? Why don't you just have some amusing, annoying program that irritates everyone who's pirated your game, rather than having a potentially incredibly severe consequence that probably won't actually apply to most people? Do you hate people who don't read dialogs? I mean, that's the only reason that makes any sense.

    I mean, couldn't you just take a branch of your game source, screw around with it and put bugs in it, then make a custom build and put that out onto torrent sites?

    No, because that would take more than 5 minutes to do.

    Well you were talking about how great it would be to have pirates run into those bugs, but how you couldn't since you don't have piracy detection logic in your game. I was pointing out how you in fact could, quite easily have pirates run into those bugs.

    And I'm just confused about your motivations in general for the choice of program. After they've downloaded the non-game, you've already wasted their time. I don't get the whole "hey, while I've got them here, let's screw up their computer if they click through these dialog boxes." Do you feel that all people who have downloaded a pirated game deserve to have their windows install wiped, but think you need the confirmations to legally protect you? Do you hate people that just click "yes" on every dialog box? Or did you just not want to bother removing the prompts from the program?

    If you had actually bothered to read the thread, you would have noticed that I said I can't afford the fancy piracy detection stuff, it's impossible for anything to happen by just clicking "yes" (the answers to continue keep switching).
    If all you care about is wasting people's time, and it's so impossible for people to accidentally destroy their data, why upload that specific utility? What exactly was your intent?

    edit: You have a legal opinion about a rapidly developing and largely untested area of law, software being distributed with solely malicious intent that's directly linked to a business, and you're freely claiming said intent on a public forum?

    Did you know that civil cases heard in front of a jury will often come close to ignoring the letter of the law in the interests of public policy in many cases?

    Even if you happen to be right, you're fantastically naive.

  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Good thing I will never be sued, and if I do I will win the case before they even knew what hit them. Also, I have actually paid a lawyer with, you know, money, to consult and help me reword the dialogs a bit. I'm not "convinced", I know. Confidence is a wonderful thing

    Which firm did you consult with? Or individual lawyer, if that's the case.

    Erik
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    Ego wrote: »
    Good thing I will never be sued, and if I do I will win the case before they even knew what hit them. Also, I have actually paid a lawyer with, you know, money, to consult and help me reword the dialogs a bit. I'm not "convinced", I know. Confidence is a wonderful thing

    Which firm did you consult with? Or individual lawyer, if that's the case.

    Not relevant. No longer replying until someone can actually find a law that I'm breaking.

  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    artifexite wrote: »
    I wonder if the people who invented dye packs for banks had these sorts of arguments.

    "They'll only get ink on them if they rob the bank!"
    "Giving someone timed explosives is basically assault!"
    copyright infringement is not theft

  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Ego wrote: »
    Good thing I will never be sued, and if I do I will win the case before they even knew what hit them. Also, I have actually paid a lawyer with, you know, money, to consult and help me reword the dialogs a bit. I'm not "convinced", I know. Confidence is a wonderful thing

    Which firm did you consult with? Or individual lawyer, if that's the case.

    Not relevant. No longer replying until someone can actually find a law that I'm breaking.

    It's pretty relevant if you want to actually win this argument, or alternatively if you're just making stuff up :). I've got money to spend and time to waste, and I can think of worse uses for both than finding out from the horse's mouth why it's legal.

    Erik
  • Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I'm still curious about why on earth you would actually do this. The only conceivable reasons I can think of are, either a) you're an asshole, or b) you somehow think this will encourage people to buy your game instead of pirating it.

    Let's go with b. What makes you think this is the case?

    steam_sig.png
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Actually it's A but the assholishness is justified in some cases.

    easybossfight_zps4752c132.gif
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Actually it's A.


    bingo

  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Actually it's A.


    bingo

    Shall I take this as evidence that you're unwilling to allow me to verify the veracity of your statement in regards to previously mentioned consulting?

    It's just that most lawyers and firms are rather happy for customer recommendations that bring them any business, and I'm happy to shell out for an hours worth of consultation. And you're apparently in the legal clear, so I can't see a lot of reason for you to deny me such access, particularly when it's of specific interest to this thread and, likely, the PA forums at large.

    Erik
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    Ego wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Actually it's A.


    bingo

    Shall I take this as evidence that you're unwilling to allow me to verify the veracity of your statement in regards to previously mentioned consulting?

    It's just that most lawyers and firms are rather happy for customer recommendations that bring them any business, and I'm happy to shell out for an hours worth of consultation. And you're apparently in the legal clear, so I can't see a lot of reason for you to deny me such access, particularly when it's of specific interest to this thread and, likely, the PA forums at large.

    Nope. Knowing who I was consulted for is still of no relation to the topic at hand. None of your business. I don't need to, since everyone who called out "illegal!" in this thread didn't even read the laws they were quoting. Why do I need to prove anything?

  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Ego wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Actually it's A.


    bingo

    Shall I take this as evidence that you're unwilling to allow me to verify the veracity of your statement in regards to previously mentioned consulting?

    It's just that most lawyers and firms are rather happy for customer recommendations that bring them any business, and I'm happy to shell out for an hours worth of consultation. And you're apparently in the legal clear, so I can't see a lot of reason for you to deny me such access, particularly when it's of specific interest to this thread and, likely, the PA forums at large.

    Nope. Knowing who I was consulted for is still of no relation to the topic at hand. None of your business. I don't need to, since everyone who called out "illegal!" in this thread didn't even read the laws they were quoting. Why do I need to prove anything?

    I haven't called what you're doing 'illegal', the first post I made in this thread (at the top of page 9) is in regards to at what level of dishonesty such an act would become illegal.

    This is a tech forum, filled with people who download games/cracks for games they already own (specific instances mentioned in this thread and as many more as you could want mentioned in every 'piracy' thread to date.)

    So it really is of the topic at hand, because you have the opportunity to provide me with the information with which both of us can verify your statements to the forums at large. I'm the one willing to spend the money, what do you have to lose?

    Erik
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    Then pay a lawyer to read over this thread and get their opinion. You don't need to know who I got mine from, and that's final.

  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Then pay a lawyer to read over this thread and get their opinion. You don't need to know who I got mine from, and that's final.

    You didn't ask a lawyer, and you didn't even write up such a 'program' before being forced to do so by this thread.

    Or, to paraphrase:

    That's what I expected you to say, and have expected you to say eventually since calling you out. People in PA don't eschew such forthrightness when it not only wins them an argument AND costs them nothing, but is in the interest of the common good. It's a win win, unless you're just one more random liar on the internet.

    Take care now. Enjoy your imaginary vengeance, carried out against imaginary software pirates.

    Erik
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    Okay, cool. None of my concern what you think :D

    edit: In the meantime, you may want to consult this post, specifically the part under "Invalid Arguments and Logical Fallacies".

    edit2: At this point I'm not even sure you know how to even use a lawyer...

  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Okay, cool. None of my concern what you think :D

    edit: In the meantime, you may want to consult this post, specifically the part under "Invalid Arguments and Logical Fallacies".

    Yes, Fyrewulff, I already knew you were partaking in special pleading and an appeal to authority. That's why this has been so easy. Thanks, though.

    Erik
  • P10P10 An Idiot with Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Azio wrote: »
    artifexite wrote: »
    I wonder if the people who invented dye packs for banks had these sorts of arguments.

    "They'll only get ink on them if they rob the bank!"
    "Giving someone timed explosives is basically assault!"
    copyright infringement is not theft
    Are you trying to parody pirate apologists?

  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    edit2: At this point I'm not even sure you know how to even use a lawyer...

    The addition of an ad-hominem attack certainly lends credence to your arguments. Would you like to stack anything else in there?

    Erik
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    At this point FyreWulff, I'm ready to say you're absolutely wrong simply based on the fact that you have been a complete immature fuckward in every single post you've made here. Especially when your response from people asking for the name of your game so they could make sure not to support you was "Nu uh, I don't wanna tell you guys lol".

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
    PSN: TheWolfman64 3DS/Pokemon Y: 0774-4614-4065 (Trainer name Christopher)
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    At this point FyreWulff, I'm ready to say you're absolutely wrong simply based on the fact that you have been a complete immature fuckward in every single post you've made here. Especially when your response from people asking for the name of your game so they could make sure not to support you was "Nu uh, I don't wanna tell you guys lol".

    What does that have to do with the topic? Besides the fact that the game was linked?

    (Oh wait, I forgot that reading the posts in this thread has been optional for the past 6 pages)

  • Rigor MortisRigor Mortis Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Ego wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    edit2: At this point I'm not even sure you know how to even use a lawyer...

    The addition of an ad-hominem attack certainly lends credence to your arguments. Would you like to stack anything else in there?
    Pot, meet kettle.

  • Erich ZahnErich Zahn Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Used games are a bigger loss then piracy, makes DD schemes like Steam all the more profitable.

  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ego wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    edit2: At this point I'm not even sure you know how to even use a lawyer...

    The addition of an ad-hominem attack certainly lends credence to your arguments. Would you like to stack anything else in there?
    Pot, meet kettle.

    I beg your pardon? He's made the argument from the start that he paid a lawyer, with money, to verify the legality of his actions, while refusing to provide evidence of such. He's claimed to have uploaded trapped versions of his game, without said versions being anywhere on the internet. He provided a screenshot, which is different than the executable he later linked in the thread. Calling him a liar isn't an ad-hominem attack. Because he's lying.

    Erik
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    Ego wrote: »
    Ego wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    edit2: At this point I'm not even sure you know how to even use a lawyer...

    The addition of an ad-hominem attack certainly lends credence to your arguments. Would you like to stack anything else in there?
    Pot, meet kettle.

    I beg your pardon? He's made the argument from the start that he paid a lawyer, with money, to verify the legality of his actions

    Actually if you had bothered to read the thread, you would have seen that I just sought the legal opinion of a lawyer on whether someone could still sue me even if they clicked yes (the old "robber sues for getting injured in the house" thing). Their opinion was nope.
    , while refusing to provide evidence of such.

    Because I don't need to, and it's none of your business who it was. If you wanted to actually pay for a lawyer's opinion, which you were never going to do, all you had to do was print out the thread, take it to a lawyer, and have them look over it and come back to you with their opinion on it. Zero involvement from me is needed and you don't need to know who gave me the service to do it.
    He's claimed to have uploaded trapped versions of his game, without said versions being anywhere on the internet.

    Once again, if you had read the thread, I told you that they don't last long because the pirates do figure it out and remove it, and 3 sites blacklist some of the games now. However, right now I can see pirate torrents up for games I've worked on. Not only that, but I uploaded and linked a demo of what the program was. And if you had (once again) bothered to read the thread, you would have known that at no point are the traps ever actually the game, they are just the scare program with a bunch of dummy data.
    He provided a screenshot, which is different than the executable he later linked in the thread. Calling him a liar isn't an ad-hominem attack. Because he's lying.

    OH NOES THE TEXT IS DIFFERENT!!!111 You've got a sure case there, Matlock! Except for the fact that instead of hosting a 120MB file filled with dummy data, I uploaded an older version from when I was testing the concept which doesn't have a bunch of dummy data, so the text is going to differ a bit (because changing the text was also the easiest thing to change the MD5 signature of the program)

    My only guess as to why the mods haven't locked this thread yet is because they find it as hilarious as I do.

  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Actually if you had bothered to read the thread, you would have seen that I just sought the legal opinion of a lawyer on whether someone could still sue me even if they clicked yes (the old "robber sues for getting injured in the house" thing). Their opinion was nope.

    I read the thread from page 1, just to get that out of the way. You stated on page two that your actions weren't illegal, and stated on page four that your software is not malware. Or are you now changing your statement to be that your actions are illegal, but that you're immune to lawsuits for said actions?
    Because I don't need to, and it's none of your business who it was. If you wanted to actually pay for a lawyer's opinion, which you were never going to do, all you had to do was print out the thread, take it to a lawyer, and have them look over it and come back to you with their opinion on it. Zero involvement from me is needed and you don't need to know who gave me the service to do it.

    No, I really am happy to consult with your lawyer. I'd consult with my own (Dodic Toone Maclean, a firm composed of the aforementioned three names --which I can tell you, as I have nothing to hide) but you've stated you don't care about foreign law, and you're American. If you're secretly Canadian, then by all means let me know and I will call them to ask.
    Because I don't need to, and it's none of your business who it was.

    If you can't provide evidence of which firm or laywer you consulted with, then your repeated defense that you consulted with a lawyer can be dismissed out of hand.

    If, however, you did consult with a lawyer, you'll only sound that much better by referring me to them and letting them verify your story. After all, I called you out: give me a name, and I either call them and look like a douche for being wrong, or refuse to call them and look like a douche for laying out a bluff and backing off of it.

    You don't win a lot of arguments on the forums. If you haven't been lying in this thread, then you've got a great opportunity to reverse that trend. For someone wanting 'zero involvement' (and saying several times that you're done posting) you do sure seem to be posting an awful lot of responses without simply giving the information that clears up a topic. A topic many readers would be interested in having cleared up.
    I told you that they don't last long because the pirates do figure it out and remove it, and 3 sites blacklist some of the games now.

    Let me guess: the only three sites you uploaded it to blacklist the game. And did it so fast that it's not in any search engine results, unlike so many other uploads that are deleted quickly, but still remain referenced in search engines. I see. You're like, some sort of white-hat legend in the piracy community then, are you? Bane of thieves everywhere, and that sort of thing.
    My only guess as to why the mods haven't locked this thread yet is because they find it as hilarious as I do.

    Or they enjoy watching you squirm as much as I do. That's clever, though: a locked thread would let you off the hook more easily than I intend to, so I applaud you hinting at it.

    Come on, fyrewulff, you've got a great opportunity to make me look like an idiot, here. Give me the name of your lawyer or the firm in question, since you're positive I don't intend to contact them.

    Erik
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    Erich Zahn wrote: »
    Used games are a bigger loss then piracy, makes DD schemes like Steam all the more profitable.

    It depends. You do lose possible money, but the smart developers/publishers do stuff like the Flashback Map Pack for Gears and the Johnson in Firefight for ODST to entice people to buy new versions.

    What would be nice is if Gamestop/EBGames would officially report sales numbers for titles to the publishers so people buying an used copy still count towards 'Do we give more money to this developer'

    edit: also in the end we do have to remember that people and Gamestop do have the right to resell the physical item.

  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Are we requiring professional references in our posts now?

    FyreWulff, we're also going to need your accountant's details and your yearly financial records. This is serious internet business.

    pokes: 1505 8032 8399
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Apparently Ego has been reading this thread too much.

    "I'm not saying you didn't contact a lawyer, heavens no, but I know some people have been saying that. I sure wish you'd just go ahead and prove you actually have to clear the air."

    3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504
    Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    If you had read the thread, you would have noticed that I said I can't afford the fancy piracy detection stuff, it's impossible for anything to happen by just clicking "yes" (the answers to continue keep switching), and I did it to give them a bit of a scare before they ALT-F4 out of the program. The deletion part doesn't even work on Vista/7 anymore, either.

    But you don't need fancy pirate detection stuff. You can just make an alternate build of your game that screws with the pirates.

    Also if you just want to give them a scare, not actually delete their data, why not just spend 5 minutes and make some fake dialog boxes (or even a progress bar) that claim to be deleting their data, but don't actually work? The fact that you are instead distributing an actual utility to delete their data seems to suggest that in some scenarios you prefer their data is actually deleted.

    Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Are we requiring professional references in our posts now?

    When you say 'I know it's not illegal because I talked to a lawyer', and then refuse to argue with others who won't themselves provide legal references, it's only fair to provide your own or accept that your own argument may be dismissed out of hand.

    UncleSporky, I came into the thread with a desire to know how much misdirection it takes to turn a 'joke' program into malware. Fyrewulff's, shall we politely say, evolving story strongly hinted that he was lying. Refusing to provide the evidence he so clearly states he has, despite losing nothing financially for it, pretty much sells me on that idea.
    Unless that specific instance has been tested in court, it is in limbo. Likewise, how explicit do you have to get before it's not illegal? The answer is, somebody will have to sue somebody else and find out.

    I just figured I would get the answer from the horse's mouth, as opposed to the horse's ass.
    Spoiler:

    Erik
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    If you had read the thread, you would have noticed that I said I can't afford the fancy piracy detection stuff, it's impossible for anything to happen by just clicking "yes" (the answers to continue keep switching), and I did it to give them a bit of a scare before they ALT-F4 out of the program. The deletion part doesn't even work on Vista/7 anymore, either.

    But you don't need fancy pirate detection stuff. You can just make an alternate build of your game that screws with the pirates.

    Also if you just want to give them a scare, not actually delete their data, why not just spend 5 minutes and make some fake dialog boxes (or even a progress bar) that claim to be deleting their data, but don't actually work? The fact that you are instead distributing an actual utility to delete their data seems to suggest that in some scenarios you prefer their data is actually deleted.

    As I said before, alternate build of my game would take more than 5 minutes to do and would take too long to change enough that filters wouldn't catch it.

    And not like it matters if they're actually stupid enough to hit Delete - they'll just download and burn another copy of a cracked Windows and reinstall.

  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    As I said before, alternate build of my game would take more than 5 minutes to do and would take too long to change enough that filters wouldn't catch it.

    What filters are you talking about?
    And not like it matters if they're actually stupid enough to hit Delete - they'll just download and burn another copy of a cracked Windows and reinstall.

    If it does only kill their Windows directory and not their system drive, you're right, they probably won't lose data. But losing your ability to use your computer is still a severe consequence, even assuming they immediately know how to recover from it and quickly re-configure all of their programs. Therefore I'm still a bit baffled why you would distribute a utility that will kill your windows directory if you never actually wanted it to happen.

    Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    As I said before, alternate build of my game would take more than 5 minutes to do and would take too long to change enough that filters wouldn't catch it.

    What filters are you talking about?
    And not like it matters if they're actually stupid enough to hit Delete - they'll just download and burn another copy of a cracked Windows and reinstall.

    If it does only kill their Windows directory and not their system drive, you're right, they probably won't lose data. But losing your ability to use your computer is still a severe consequence, even assuming they immediately know how to recover from it and quickly re-configure all of their programs. Therefore I'm still a bit baffled why you would distribute a utility that will kill your windows directory if you never actually wanted it to happen.

    It does only kill the windows directory. And if they actually tell it to delete - it's not my problem. I'm just throwing up all the warnings so that it distinctly requires authorization (it even calls the deltree command with the switch to ask you if you actually want to go through with it)

  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    As I said before, alternate build of my game would take more than 5 minutes to do and would take too long to change enough that filters wouldn't catch it.

    What filters are you talking about?
    And not like it matters if they're actually stupid enough to hit Delete - they'll just download and burn another copy of a cracked Windows and reinstall.

    If it does only kill their Windows directory and not their system drive, you're right, they probably won't lose data. But losing your ability to use your computer is still a severe consequence, even assuming they immediately know how to recover from it and quickly re-configure all of their programs. Therefore I'm still a bit baffled why you would distribute a utility that will kill your windows directory if you never actually wanted it to happen.

    It does only kill the windows directory. And if they actually tell it to delete - it's not my problem. I'm just throwing up all the warnings so that it distinctly requires authorization (it even calls the deltree command with the switch to ask you if you actually want to go through with it)

    I understand that it requires authorization. That wasn't my point. You said your goal was to scare: a dummy "delete windows" dialog is enough to do this. But you have an actual, working program that does this. Were you really so unmotivated to do any work on this that you risk some people nuking their windows install just so you get the scary prompts it has beforehand, without writing them yourself?

    Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    As I said before, alternate build of my game would take more than 5 minutes to do and would take too long to change enough that filters wouldn't catch it.

    What filters are you talking about?
    And not like it matters if they're actually stupid enough to hit Delete - they'll just download and burn another copy of a cracked Windows and reinstall.

    If it does only kill their Windows directory and not their system drive, you're right, they probably won't lose data. But losing your ability to use your computer is still a severe consequence, even assuming they immediately know how to recover from it and quickly re-configure all of their programs. Therefore I'm still a bit baffled why you would distribute a utility that will kill your windows directory if you never actually wanted it to happen.

    It does only kill the windows directory. And if they actually tell it to delete - it's not my problem. I'm just throwing up all the warnings so that it distinctly requires authorization (it even calls the deltree command with the switch to ask you if you actually want to go through with it)

    I understand that it requires authorization. That wasn't my point. You said your goal was to scare: a dummy "delete windows" dialog is enough to do this. But you have an actual, working program that does this. Were you really so unmotivated to do any work on this that you risk some people nuking their windows install just so you get the scary prompts it has beforehand, without writing them yourself?

    I wouldn't say it was unmotivated.

    And as I said before, future versions will just do harmless stuff, since Windows actually has security now. I haven't updated that program in over a year.

    Also I didn't want to reimplement the Windows delete dialogs. As I said before, I did it because it was quick and easy. Much like how pirates don't put effort into actually paying for games with money, it would be a waste of time to do anything elaborate to combat them.

    Also I don't think I elaborated before, not only would it take more time to make a "messed up" version of a game, but we have also witnessed where the piracy 'bugs' for a game somehow were repeated enough that people treated them as real bugs. The disk utility avoids this.

  • FubearFubear Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Daedalus wrote: »
    theSquid wrote: »
    It can also completely destroy the sales of a game by making it appear buggy, see Titan Quest.

    Also, if you think that a legitimate purchaser will never get fucked by some hare-brained DRM scheme, I've got a bridge to sell you.

    Does it come with a copy of Bioshock that lets me make a legitimate back-up copy of the game without breaking the fucking disc?

    I mean, goddamn, what happens if I want to keep my games safe from thieves and my clumsiness?

    "That'll be another $20, sonny-boy."

    Loklar wrote: »
    I wouldn't trust the government to be able to distinguish between what's a secret and what makes them look bad.
  • rinkuherorinkuhero Registered User
    edited October 2009
    hi all, let me clear some things up since i have known fyrewulff online for like 10 years from the ohrrpgce game development community.

    [CENSORED BY FYREWULFF]

    [CENSORED BY FYREWULFF]

    3 - i agree with him that what he is doing isn't illegal, and i also agree with him that he's just doing it because he's a jerk and cause he thinks it's fun to do things like that. he's always done things like that, even 10 years ago. he's a bit of a character and a bit of a troll and has does things i'll never defend but i love him anyway due to our long sorta-friendship of 10 years or so.

    4 - as he said, he has no real association with my site (the site mentioned earlier on page 7 of this thread) anymore; he once had a game on it but it's not really there anymore. he did found the company and pick its name, but he later left and gave me control of it. so don't hate my games (the ones on that site) just cause you hate him or something; none of the games there have fake versions that delete your files, and most of them are free anyway.

    5 - i too once uploaded a fake version of my commercial game to a torrent site. however, it wasn't malicious: it didn't delete files. it was just the demo game, falsely called the full game. i did that so that pirates might become frustrated and be like 'what, this is just the demo! argh! guess i'll have to buy it after all' and to confuse those looking for actual full versions of the game.

    in other words, i'm against uploading stuff that deletes stuff since i think that's stupid, but i'm not against making it harder to pirate a game by spamming demo versions which are falsely labeled as the full game when they aren't. it actually works a little if you're an indie game developer, since there aren't that many people trying to pirate the game since nobody knows about it (my game has only had about 1200 sales for instance).

    sorry for reviving an old topic but i just found this through a google search for my site's url

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