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Forget it, Jake! It's [Star Wars].
Posts
Well, all of the things you list as "bad" can be argued to be "good". And all of the things you list as "good" can be argued to be "bad".
So, again, do you know what "subjective" means? I'm fine with a person saying "I like ROTS better than ROTJ." But to label them as somehow objectively better or worse seems to bypass the meaning of "objective".
Ah, you're one of those people, those Empire people.
I'm afraid you have it all wrong.
Return of the Jedi is the best movie of all of them. I will tell you why.
1. Jabba the Hutt. Don't talk to me about that CG shit added in ep 4, because that wasn't in there when I was a kid. Jabba showed up in 6 and was made of win (except for the whole dying thing). Also, Leia in a gold bikini
2. The Emperor. While he was some scary face in Empire, we actually got to see him talking and acting in Jedi. Awesome.
3. The final duel between Luke and Vader. If you play the music to this I will start to tear up. It's the best lightsaber fight in any of the movies, not because of any acrobatics or anything, but when Luke stars owning on Vader you can feel the anger and love boiling from within.
4. The space battle at the second death star. Awesome, you get to see ships, lasers, it's pretty rad. Might not be as good as the battle in RotS.
Okay, so the ranking is as follows
6
3
5
2
4
1
There.
Agreed. But still, I find of all the prequels, Ep.1 leaves me with the best feeling coming out, if only because it ends on the highest note of the entire prequel trilogy, the Darth Maul Fight.
Easily the best Lightsaber Duel in any of the Star Wars movies.
I think most people overrate the first trilogy anyway. They are fun, and better written in many ways (mostly dialogue), but they aren't THAT much better when it comes to story. Especially with Jedi being kind of a shitty cap-end to the series.
Bah, the 2 trilogies of movies would work fine. You just need some tightening and some polishing. Really work the Vader/Luke parallels and mirror 2 levels of the story better (Jedi vs Sith and Empire vs Republic).
I had some ideas on the subject, but then again I write stuff like this up for fun. (I also wrote a whole proposal/outline for a redo of Star Trek: Voyager)
how... what... my eyes hurt from reading this.
Anything would seem good if it was following up on those two movies.
Season 1:
Rogue Squadron and the first 1/4 of Wedge's Gamble.
Season 2:
Finish up Wedge's Gamble, and the truncate the Krytos trap to fit in.
Season 3:
The Bacta War.
Season 4:
Either expand into the whole Wraith Squadron series, or jump ahead and give a breakdown of the Thrawn campaign that dovetails into Isard's Revenge.
Season 5:
Either Isard's Revenge or do a miniseries with Starfighters of Adumaar.
Someone try to tell me that it would not be the most bad-ass Sci-fi series of all time. It would get 48938394823904 people watching it just from having Star Wars in the name. And, it would be television, so you know Lucas would believe it beneath his notice so you could get away with actually making good, solid entertainment.
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It ends on a cliffhanger.
I mean, I can understand how good it was. It was faaaantastic.
I just have an unreasonable dislike of cliffhangers.
Oh, wait. It wasn't a happy ending.
Tragedy makes things deeper.
Right I get it now, carry on.
Not to mention that Anakin turns to the Dark Side with all the subtlety of an on/off switch. I don't know how anyone could possibly like the opera scene in Ep.3, that was honestly the worst shit in the universe. It was pretty much
Palpatine: Join the Dark Side.
Anakin: Naaaah.
Palpatine: Come on, join the Dark Side already.
Anakin: Shit, okay.
Palpatine. Sweet. Now murder some toddlers.
I liked a flash parody I saw of it:
Anakin: (Just after Mace Windu's death) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! (Tearing up) What have I done?! Oh God, no!
Palpatine: Join me.
Anakin: ("Meh"-ish) Okay.
It's just better action adventure.
It gets a lot of hate for 'wasted potential', and 'oh but Jedi aren't supposed to be able to be killed by clonetroopers', but frankly those are faults more on behalf of the audience than the movies themselves.
It's far from a great movie, mind.
True dat. The main criticism is the on/off switch of Anakin's conversion. I think the scene with Padme begging him to come back would have been a lot better if there were any signs she was making progress, and then that brief hope is shattered by Obi Wan turning up. Something like...
Padme: Ani, this isn't you, don't go down this path.
Anakin: I...maybe you're right, I need to think- *Sees Obi Wan* What? You lied to me!
But no, she doesn't even get through at all before Obi Wan interrupts.
Also does anyone else dislike the Republic Commando books? When I read them it just felt like Karen Traviss took all the fun and awesomeness out of Star Wars and replaced all the characters with annoying sociopaths.
ANAKIN: You are so beautiful!
PADME: It's only because I'm so in love . . .
ANAKIN: No, it's because I'm so in love with you.
PADME: So love has blinded you?
ANAKIN: Well, that's not exactly what I meant . . .
PADME: But it's probably true!
They laugh.
ANAKIN: I haven't laughed in so long . . .
PADME: Neither have I.
He should have maybe jumped to the right? Or used a force push. Its all retarded though so analysis doesn't bear starting.
people.
on the internet.
arguing about star wars?
this is getting serious
Examples?
Jedi's acting ranged from workmanlike to brilliant, in my opinion.
Shit just got real.
If you skipped season's 1-3 and just did Wraith Squadron followed by a Starfighters of Adumaar movie then I would watch it.
Stackpoles series got tired by book 3, and Isard's Revenge was bad.
Kevin J Anderson: The Force lets you throw 100 Star Destroyers into another galaxy.
High ground obviously only matters when Obi-wan has it.
Basically I'm in the camp that says Lucas either has to hand the toys over to the other kids in class or needs adult supervision. Also, Sith isn't better than Jedi.
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I can safely say that I would watch the shit out of this. Of all the Expanded Universe stuff, the X-Wing books were the only ones that I gave a damn about because they didn't just try to be Star Wars Episode X: I HAVE A BAD FEELING ABOUT THIS. The Aaron Allston ones in particular were fantastic.
"Yub yub, Commander"
"Yes"
"We've stopped moving"
Then has Yoda and Palpatine have a fucking flippy fight.
If true, this would explain so much.
Metaphor time!
So it seems Lucas is taking the prettiest piece from each jigsaw puzzle without realising they don't necessarily fit together as a whole.
Of course, the same is true of Revenge of the Sith.
There seems to be a pretty fine line between a pulpy space opera classic and a pulpy sack of shit. George Lucas crossed into the latter territory with Jedi and pretty much picked up where he left off with the prequel trilogy.
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The difference is that Revenge of the Sith takes a lot less time to do this than Return of the Jedi.
I feel like we always knew that Owen and Beru weren't really Luke's uncle and aunt..
And you can't really compare things in Star Wars to the rest of the series. They did have to change some stuff that didn't make sense. It was put together as a one-off movie.
This.
It's not so much that Lucas, as he says, isn't so good with the directing of actors, it's that he doesn't even care or understanding why actors even have to be in his movies. He's that far removed from the basics of filmmaking. For him, everything is rote data to serve his effects (which are often pointless and self-serving) and his plot (" "). It's a damnable irony, or maybe just utter lack of awareness, that he ignores the parts of filmmaking that allow for the audience to engage and latch on to the movie, and then is still incompetent at bringing them much of the visual viscera.
If George Lucas wants any part of being a filmmaker (and it's not at all clear that he does, or ever did), it seems that he'd be more comfortable designing corporate presentations or effects reels.
That doesn't sound very comfortable to me.
No Iron Fist? Well, I've become less fond of the X-Wing novels over time. At a certain point, it just becomes dogfighters' wet fantasy meets JAG.
On the other hand, three movies made for Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy. I would buy, or rather, watch that.
Stackpoles's books got a little stale the moment I realized that Corran Horn was the best at everything, ever. And gets all the chicks. And is also a badass Jedi. And can walk on water. And is a massive Gary Stu.
Wraith Squadron, though. I cried.
the thrawn trilogy wouldn't really do well in a three movie style format. It would end up being to complicated and drawn out for most people
however i do think it would make a excellent mini-series
Han: How're we doing?
Luke: Same as always.
Han: That bad, huh?
I give Sith credit for trying to salvage the mess that is the prequel trilogy, but its pacing weakens it. Anakin's desperation was built well, but the turn from Jedi to Sith happens too abruptly. Going from "What have I done??!" to killing children in the span of minutes just isn't believable, even in a fantasy setting like this.
Also, like someone else said, the best moments of RotJ outshine the best moments of RotS. Included in that, IMO, is the comparison between the first act of each movie. The rescue from Jabba's Palace is much more entertaining than the rescue of Palpatine. It also does a better job in showing just how far the main character had come.
The weakest part of RotS, for me, is the end, when Anakin, Padme, and Obi-Wan have their confrontation. The dialogue is horrid and the delivery of some of the lines is just off, which kills the drama. Portman's "Anakin...you're breaking my heart!" is weak all around, and the emphasis that Christensen puts on some of his words is just odd.
I do think that the middle portion of RotS is superior to that of RotJ. It's the best part of the prequels. It does more than most Star Wars middle acts do, and does it competently.
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Yeah, there's something about the whole prequel-making logic that doesn't make sense.
If you don't care about the property, and know that you're not a good writer, and know that you're not good with actors, and have several very talented people dying to work on your project, why do you still do it virtually single-handedly?
Or is it as simple as, "Remember that time that douchebag Irwin Kershner stole my movie and created one of the greatest films of all time? I'll be damned if I let that happen again grumblegrumblegrumble . . . ?"
It would probably be too long for three normal length movies, in retrospect.
Despite my obligatory fanboyism over Natalie Portman, the best parts with her character involved getting clothes ripped off by an alien monster.
This neo-feudalism would be more tolerable if our betters had fancy titles.