a lot of the heroes that the item is good for are not in HoN thats all.
ive heard this a couple times. who the hell uses maelstrom/mjolnir in dota? apparently it was changed cause there were a bunch of int heroes who use it now? I haven't paid much attention to dota since HoN came out.
I don't see why refresher stone isn't more chosen. The items to build it are all useful, and there's few heroes who wouldn't benefit a great deal from popping their ult twice in a row.
1. most of the ult cooldowns aren't long enough for it to be worth it. generally if an ult is gamebreakingly good (i.e. mass AOE disable of some kind) it also has a monster cd to balance it out
2. pers (sustainer) is kinda a bad item. I am really not a fan.
3. pers (sustainer) + oblivion staff (forget the HoN name) = shit for HP or Mana or damage or really anything you need.
Refresher is really only core on a few heroes who have gamebreaking ults with long cooldowns and don't need blink to position the ult or BKB to ensure it gets off. basically that means tree. You need blink first on magmus and tempest for example..
Yeh, you can get bottles with side lanes, I mean, I guess. I often play with friends so I am not in 'pub' situations where the mid will not be getting the runes. Denying/spotting/obtaining runes is #1 priority, for one lane, it's the creep puller who takes it if in range (if mid is not hunting them) and the other rune can be watched by the mid solo.
Tiny is a lane babysitter until he has his ring and he's level 9-10, so for heavy rune play you either get a bottle when it's too late to do something with it or when you can be assured you'll get runes out of it. Magmus can also benefit from one, but with him I do nothing but stun/stats (ult at 6 and 11) so I have enough mana to use stun 3 times by the time I am level 7, anyway.
Even in high level play you will see 2 or even 3 bottles on a team, They're just generally useful, and some runes are better for some heroes, one hero can't be everywhere at once, etc. When they're all warded anyway, you can have 2 or 3 people going for a rune at the same time.
Bottle first on Tiny WAS standard, I should say. More often you'll see regen items and a magic stick (another item everyone will have at high level play), with bottle as a second item (remember that you'll always have an upgraded courier from the start in anything scrim or above). He simply needs the mana regen to be any sort of use in a lane, and with it he's VERY useful. Avalanche, toss is deadly from the start of the game all the way through to the end, and you'll see him paired with a hero like Succubus/Bane (sleep, walk up and combo) or someone with a stun. It's also his best method of farming, letting him clear a whole wave with a well placed stun, toss.
Arcane is actually slightly optional. He'll get it most of the time, but blink comes first, and good bottle use will give him plenty of mana for ganking.
You'll also see a lot of mid lanes that don't need a bottle. Anyone from Lucy to Bloodseeker to Silencer will solo mid without the need for a bottle, and double mid lanes aren't uncommon either. On top of that, the list of bottle users and the list of top picks overlap greatly, so if you've got PotM/Valkyrie and ES/Behemoth on the same team there's really no need for only one of them to get a bottle when both of them need it.
Yeh, every team should have 1-2 arcane rings, that just hardly plays out, unfortunately. Lucy and Silencer don't happen to be in this game yet but I HOPE Lucy gets a port at some point. He serves a pretty important purpose in terms of against Omni/heavy casters.
If you're going to rush an orb with Moon Queen I would say EITHER Whispering Helm (jungling, life leech for staying in lane, grab a stun or net creep for ganking the lane) or a Nullfire Blade (bit of damage, bit of mana, find someone in the open and purge + ult) not both. She's already so, so fragile, and you won't be carrying without HP. If that's your purpose. She's better ganking in the mid game with her ult than heavily farming to carry.
If you are going to carry you should go for a Wingbow and Geometer's Bane, then a Heart. Helps with pushing as well.
How do orbs work with illusions in HoN? For dota the only orb an illusion can get is melee feedback. If they can get more orbs in HoN then there should be some really lame shit you can pull.
If you're going to rush an orb with Moon Queen I would say EITHER Whispering Helm (jungling, life leech for staying in lane, grab a stun or net creep for ganking the lane) or a Nullfire Blade (bit of damage, bit of mana, find someone in the open and purge + ult) not both. She's already so, so fragile, and you won't be carrying without HP. If that's your purpose. She's better ganking in the mid game with her ult than heavily farming to carry.
If you are going to carry you should go for a Wingbow and Geometer's Bane, then a Heart. Helps with pushing as well.
How do orbs work with illusions in HoN? For dota the only orb an illusion can get is melee feedback. If they can get more orbs in HoN then there should be some really lame shit you can pull.
clones get ranged feedback in hon
luna > right click > EMP
Nullfire/Difusal is still seen on PotM/Valkyrie now and then in dota, I can only imagine how lame it could get in HoN, especially considering that geometer's/manta is now pretty much the top carry/push item, especially on agi. And that's without orbs.
I know where the changes come from - and I know people get both of the items, but in general I think nullfire, at this point, is more or less just a necessary counter to certain heroes (jereziah) and much less an orb effect (or I hardly worry about that facet of it)
So I just got an invite to this, and will be playing later tonight. Ive never played Dota though, so im gona be new to just about everything in this. Looks neat though!
It's true that the heroes who actually use it as core -- naga, PL, CK -- aren't in HoN, but at the same time taking the orb effect away from Manta/Geometer's and buffing Nullfire/Diffusal has actually made them both better. The heroes who need the orb already have images and can spend their gold on better items (more hp -- Manta is luxury for image heroes now, after they've got damage and hp), and the heroes who already have orbs or don't need them can get Manta/Geometer's for the extra dps and pushing power. This is why you see Manta/Geometers on PotM/Valkyrie and most any other carry, because they need different orbs, but the images are just so nice.
Nullfire doesn't do summon damage in HoN? It's a good counter for Warlock/Hellbringer in DotA. Should also stop Hammerstorm's ult.
It's true that the heroes who actually use it as core -- naga, PL, CK -- aren't in HoN, but at the same time taking the orb effect away from Manta/Geometer's and buffing Nullfire/Diffusal has actually made them both better. The heroes who need the orb already have images and can spend their gold on better items (more hp -- Manta is luxury for image heroes now, after they've got damage and hp), and the heroes who already have orbs or don't need them can get Manta/Geometer's for the extra dps and pushing power. This is why you see Manta/Geometers on PotM/Valkyrie and most any other carry, because they need different orbs, but the images are just so nice.
Nullfire doesn't do summon damage in HoN? It's a good counter for Warlock/Hellbringer in DotA. Should also stop Hammerstorm's ult.
Purge kills Hellbringer's summon, yes.
Kills it.
Not Electrician's skill, sadly, but the skill on the item, yes.
And yes I have gotten null/manta on heroes. And yes I love manta on faceless (if I manage to play him) as well as some other heroes.
also there's now a new test client to test patches before they're in the beta client
uh
Here's a sneak peak at what'll be in the test client:
(Many) Bug fixes
Magebane Re-work
Hero tweaks (Such as Diseased Rider and Soul Reaper)
Behemoth's Heart Re-work
Riftshards Re-work
New item based on Ring of the Teacher
New late game int item (details later)
And does this mean that you guys are trying to shift away from being exactly like DotA, including new balance changes that IceFrog makes? If so, YAY!
Yes, we're approaching the point in development where we feel most of the 'ground work' for HoN is in place and we can start making the necessary tweak's to HoN's gameplay. We knew from the start that the changes between HoN and DotA would be significant enough to warrant our own changes. Simple things like showing mana bars, to more complex things like a different hero pool, they all add up and have made HoN into what it is: a game based on DotA, yet different from DotA. Being a different game, it needs its own tweaks. We've got tons of information gathering tools at our disposal, including the usage of raw statistics, and with our own engine and coders to make literally any change we deem necessary, it's a pretty exciting prospect.
yay page you don't have to whine about this anymore
I will follow these changes with interest and casual optimism. No Lucy or Naga port yet is kind of failing. :x
Also, +35 strength is still 665 hp and a bit of regen. Heart was a little broken the way it was. On the other hand, it's really changed the roles of a few old carry heroes. Heart is still your best bet for HP.
Am I correct in not bothering with Moon Queens 3rd spell (the aura) usually I just max MB and multihit then ulti when I can. The rest is dumped into stats.
Am I correct in not bothering with Moon Queens 3rd spell (the aura) usually I just max MB and multihit then ulti when I can. The rest is dumped into stats.
thats what i do too. although i find only maybe 3ish in multi is enough for most parts.
NDA Lifted!
All testers are free to not only talk about HoN, but post all the screenshots, media, and movies they want. Have fun!
Posted By: Fielding @ 9-08-2009 02:05:01 AM
I'm heavily addicted to this game now. I figured for $30, I go ahead and pre-purchase so a few of my other friends can play for a bit before it goes retail.
2v2's are very interesting, specially when both teams are same level all the way till their 20's.
5v5's are very fun, and winning a 3v4 is worthy of a raised beer.
You need to find TheLawinator, Gumpy, Khac, deadwizard or myself online. Just hang out in the channel fora while and when one of us is on just ask.
Will do, getting comfortable enough to play on my own and have had positive K-D the past 3 games if that means anything to you guys.
Simply having a positive kill death ratio puts you on a level above many of those already in PA... I shall name no names though >.>......<.<.
But I don't look at that statistic, you better work on having a high level of creep denies though. I mean what is the use of a statistic that can literally be farmed out with a few players, 30 minutes and instant respawn set. Get hundreds of kills in a match and no deaths. You can even do it yourself with 2 computers. /Shrug
Posts
ive heard this a couple times. who the hell uses maelstrom/mjolnir in dota? apparently it was changed cause there were a bunch of int heroes who use it now? I haven't paid much attention to dota since HoN came out.
1. most of the ult cooldowns aren't long enough for it to be worth it. generally if an ult is gamebreakingly good (i.e. mass AOE disable of some kind) it also has a monster cd to balance it out
2. pers (sustainer) is kinda a bad item. I am really not a fan.
3. pers (sustainer) + oblivion staff (forget the HoN name) = shit for HP or Mana or damage or really anything you need.
Refresher is really only core on a few heroes who have gamebreaking ults with long cooldowns and don't need blink to position the ult or BKB to ensure it gets off. basically that means tree. You need blink first on magmus and tempest for example..
Bottle-Whispering Helm- Assassin's Shroud- Nullfire Blade then go Post Haste and Shrunken head for mid-late?
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Yeh, every team should have 1-2 arcane rings, that just hardly plays out, unfortunately. Lucy and Silencer don't happen to be in this game yet but I HOPE Lucy gets a port at some point. He serves a pretty important purpose in terms of against Omni/heavy casters.
If you're ganking-No-No-No-No-No.
No.
NO.
NO
EDIT: Whispering Helm and Nullfire Blade don't stack.
Shroud is pointless, especially if you have Post Haste.
Shrunken Head needs to be gotten sooner than later, if that's your purpose.
It's all wrong.
None of this is adding up.
Tha...that's what was linked in the OP
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Sorry.
This weekend I'll probably update it with some links to "premium guides" that don't suck so damn much.
So what do you suggest?
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or something i've wanted to try on her: elder parasite + nullfire blade and level four bounce
then build to geometer's
bottle>soulscream ring> Post Haste>Wingbow> Shrunken Head
granted Shrunken Head was just a formality at that point.
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They stack, but relegate Luna to a right-click machine. She's much more a ganker than a carry or heavy dps until super late game.
For serial.
If you are going to carry you should go for a Wingbow and Geometer's Bane, then a Heart. Helps with pushing as well.
How do orbs work with illusions in HoN? For dota the only orb an illusion can get is melee feedback. If they can get more orbs in HoN then there should be some really lame shit you can pull.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
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clones get ranged feedback in hon
luna > right click > EMP
lol.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
But geometer's bane doesn't leech mana unless you get nullfire as well, since it's just a yasha upgrade now.
Where do you think they get these changes from?
Nullfire/Difusal is still seen on PotM/Valkyrie now and then in dota, I can only imagine how lame it could get in HoN, especially considering that geometer's/manta is now pretty much the top carry/push item, especially on agi. And that's without orbs.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Nullfire doesn't do summon damage in HoN? It's a good counter for Warlock/Hellbringer in DotA. Should also stop Hammerstorm's ult.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Purge kills Hellbringer's summon, yes.
Kills it.
Not Electrician's skill, sadly, but the skill on the item, yes.
And yes I have gotten null/manta on heroes. And yes I love manta on faceless (if I manage to play him) as well as some other heroes.
also there's now a new test client to test patches before they're in the beta client
uh yay page you don't have to whine about this anymore
Ever since they remove the regen I stop buying it.
They should make the Regen for Str Heroes only.
And the 10s no regen to other Heroes.
Also, +35 strength is still 665 hp and a bit of regen. Heart was a little broken the way it was. On the other hand, it's really changed the roles of a few old carry heroes. Heart is still your best bet for HP.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
i told you guys he owns!
we had 5% to win though
You need to find TheLawinator, Gumpy, Khac, or myself online. Just hang out in the channel for a while and when one of us is on just ask.
Will do, getting comfortable enough to play on my own and have had positive K-D the past 3 games if that means anything to you guys.
Handmade Jewelry by me on EtsyGames for sale
Me on Twitch!
Better than when I started....still digging myself out of the hole I'm in.
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Me on Twitch!
-Vergeltung
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Me on Twitch!
It is easy if you cheat.
Just use one of your BETA key and farm kills on it.
thats what i do too. although i find only maybe 3ish in multi is enough for most parts.
I'm heavily addicted to this game now. I figured for $30, I go ahead and pre-purchase so a few of my other friends can play for a bit before it goes retail.
2v2's are very interesting, specially when both teams are same level all the way till their 20's.
5v5's are very fun, and winning a 3v4 is worthy of a raised beer.
Also, please feel free to add me BloodHarvest
Simply having a positive kill death ratio puts you on a level above many of those already in PA... I shall name no names though >.>......<.<.
But I don't look at that statistic, you better work on having a high level of creep denies though. I mean what is the use of a statistic that can literally be farmed out with a few players, 30 minutes and instant respawn set. Get hundreds of kills in a match and no deaths. You can even do it yourself with 2 computers. /Shrug