Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[HoN] Heroes of Newerth - Empty slots don't do anything for you.

2456754

Posts

  • valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    a lot of the heroes that the item is good for are not in HoN thats all.

    ive heard this a couple times. who the hell uses maelstrom/mjolnir in dota? apparently it was changed cause there were a bunch of int heroes who use it now? I haven't paid much attention to dota since HoN came out.
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    I don't see why refresher stone isn't more chosen. The items to build it are all useful, and there's few heroes who wouldn't benefit a great deal from popping their ult twice in a row.

    1. most of the ult cooldowns aren't long enough for it to be worth it. generally if an ult is gamebreakingly good (i.e. mass AOE disable of some kind) it also has a monster cd to balance it out
    2. pers (sustainer) is kinda a bad item. I am really not a fan.
    3. pers (sustainer) + oblivion staff (forget the HoN name) = shit for HP or Mana or damage or really anything you need.

    Refresher is really only core on a few heroes who have gamebreaking ults with long cooldowns and don't need blink to position the ult or BKB to ensure it gets off. basically that means tree. You need blink first on magmus and tempest for example..

  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    If I'm reading this right for Moon Queen I want to go for early-mid

    Bottle-Whispering Helm- Assassin's Shroud- Nullfire Blade then go Post Haste and Shrunken head for mid-late?

  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Page- wrote: »
    @Page-

    Yeh, you can get bottles with side lanes, I mean, I guess. I often play with friends so I am not in 'pub' situations where the mid will not be getting the runes. Denying/spotting/obtaining runes is #1 priority, for one lane, it's the creep puller who takes it if in range (if mid is not hunting them) and the other rune can be watched by the mid solo.

    Tiny is a lane babysitter until he has his ring and he's level 9-10, so for heavy rune play you either get a bottle when it's too late to do something with it or when you can be assured you'll get runes out of it. Magmus can also benefit from one, but with him I do nothing but stun/stats (ult at 6 and 11) so I have enough mana to use stun 3 times by the time I am level 7, anyway.

    Even in high level play you will see 2 or even 3 bottles on a team, They're just generally useful, and some runes are better for some heroes, one hero can't be everywhere at once, etc. When they're all warded anyway, you can have 2 or 3 people going for a rune at the same time.

    Bottle first on Tiny WAS standard, I should say. More often you'll see regen items and a magic stick (another item everyone will have at high level play), with bottle as a second item (remember that you'll always have an upgraded courier from the start in anything scrim or above). He simply needs the mana regen to be any sort of use in a lane, and with it he's VERY useful. Avalanche, toss is deadly from the start of the game all the way through to the end, and you'll see him paired with a hero like Succubus/Bane (sleep, walk up and combo) or someone with a stun. It's also his best method of farming, letting him clear a whole wave with a well placed stun, toss.

    Arcane is actually slightly optional. He'll get it most of the time, but blink comes first, and good bottle use will give him plenty of mana for ganking.

    You'll also see a lot of mid lanes that don't need a bottle. Anyone from Lucy to Bloodseeker to Silencer will solo mid without the need for a bottle, and double mid lanes aren't uncommon either. On top of that, the list of bottle users and the list of top picks overlap greatly, so if you've got PotM/Valkyrie and ES/Behemoth on the same team there's really no need for only one of them to get a bottle when both of them need it.

    Yeh, every team should have 1-2 arcane rings, that just hardly plays out, unfortunately. Lucy and Silencer don't happen to be in this game yet but I HOPE Lucy gets a port at some point. He serves a pretty important purpose in terms of against Omni/heavy casters.

    RonaldoTheGypsy.png
  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    If I'm reading this right for Moon Queen I want to go for early-mid

    Bottle-Whispering Helm- Assassin's Shroud- Nullfire Blade then go Post Haste and Shrunken head for mid-late?

    If you're ganking-No-No-No-No-No.

    No.

    NO.

    NO

    EDIT: Whispering Helm and Nullfire Blade don't stack.

    Shroud is pointless, especially if you have Post Haste.

    Shrunken Head needs to be gotten sooner than later, if that's your purpose.

    It's all wrong.

    None of this is adding up.

    RonaldoTheGypsy.png
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    If I'm reading this right for Moon Queen I want to go for early-mid

    Bottle-Whispering Helm- Assassin's Shroud- Nullfire Blade then go Post Haste and Shrunken head for mid-late?

    If you're ganking-No-No-No-No-No.

    No.

    NO.

    NO

    EDIT: Whispering Helm and Nullfire Blade don't stack.

    Shroud is pointless, especially if you have Post Haste.

    Shrunken Head needs to be gotten sooner than later, if that's your purpose.

    It's all wrong.

    None of this is adding up.

    Tha...that's what was linked in the OP :(

  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    That guide sucks.

    Sorry.

    RonaldoTheGypsy.png
  • ImperfectImperfect Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Sorry - I didn't make the OP, I just maintain it. Hella poorly.

    This weekend I'll probably update it with some links to "premium guides" that don't suck so damn much.

  • JutranjoJutranjo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    What about the orbs stacking except for same effects?

  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
  • EtiowsaEtiowsa TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure most orbs will stack in HoN. The only ones I think conflict are deso, skadi, and sny. And duplicates.

    janenext.jpg
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie a storm rocks a ship on a sea the wind shakes the leaves on a treeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    for moon queen you choose another hero because fucking moon queen

    or something i've wanted to try on her: elder parasite + nullfire blade and level four bounce
    then build to geometer's

    3926 4292 8829
    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I tried something that was fairly successful

    bottle>soulscream ring> Post Haste>Wingbow> Shrunken Head

    granted Shrunken Head was just a formality at that point.

  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Etiowsa wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure most orbs will stack in HoN. The only ones I think conflict are deso, skadi, and sny. And duplicates.

    They stack, but relegate Luna to a right-click machine. She's much more a ganker than a carry or heavy dps until super late game.

    For serial.

    RonaldoTheGypsy.png
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    If you're going to rush an orb with Moon Queen I would say EITHER Whispering Helm (jungling, life leech for staying in lane, grab a stun or net creep for ganking the lane) or a Nullfire Blade (bit of damage, bit of mana, find someone in the open and purge + ult) not both. She's already so, so fragile, and you won't be carrying without HP. If that's your purpose. She's better ganking in the mid game with her ult than heavily farming to carry.

    If you are going to carry you should go for a Wingbow and Geometer's Bane, then a Heart. Helps with pushing as well.

    How do orbs work with illusions in HoN? For dota the only orb an illusion can get is melee feedback. If they can get more orbs in HoN then there should be some really lame shit you can pull.

    (Mostly) Competitive Gaming Blog Updated August 18th - Monster Hunting
    stream
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie a storm rocks a ship on a sea the wind shakes the leaves on a treeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Page- wrote: »
    If you're going to rush an orb with Moon Queen I would say EITHER Whispering Helm (jungling, life leech for staying in lane, grab a stun or net creep for ganking the lane) or a Nullfire Blade (bit of damage, bit of mana, find someone in the open and purge + ult) not both. She's already so, so fragile, and you won't be carrying without HP. If that's your purpose. She's better ganking in the mid game with her ult than heavily farming to carry.

    If you are going to carry you should go for a Wingbow and Geometer's Bane, then a Heart. Helps with pushing as well.

    How do orbs work with illusions in HoN? For dota the only orb an illusion can get is melee feedback. If they can get more orbs in HoN then there should be some really lame shit you can pull.

    clones get ranged feedback in hon
    luna > right click > EMP

    3926 4292 8829
    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ranged feedback lol.

    lol.

    (Mostly) Competitive Gaming Blog Updated August 18th - Monster Hunting
    stream
  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yeah it's ridiculous.

    But geometer's bane doesn't leech mana unless you get nullfire as well, since it's just a yasha upgrade now.

    RonaldoTheGypsy.png
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Same as in dota.

    Where do you think they get these changes from?

    Nullfire/Difusal is still seen on PotM/Valkyrie now and then in dota, I can only imagine how lame it could get in HoN, especially considering that geometer's/manta is now pretty much the top carry/push item, especially on agi. And that's without orbs.

    (Mostly) Competitive Gaming Blog Updated August 18th - Monster Hunting
    stream
  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I know where the changes come from - and I know people get both of the items, but in general I think nullfire, at this point, is more or less just a necessary counter to certain heroes (jereziah) and much less an orb effect (or I hardly worry about that facet of it)

    RonaldoTheGypsy.png
  • LagnarLagnar Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    So I just got an invite to this, and will be playing later tonight. Ive never played Dota though, so im gona be new to just about everything in this. Looks neat though!

  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    It's true that the heroes who actually use it as core -- naga, PL, CK -- aren't in HoN, but at the same time taking the orb effect away from Manta/Geometer's and buffing Nullfire/Diffusal has actually made them both better. The heroes who need the orb already have images and can spend their gold on better items (more hp -- Manta is luxury for image heroes now, after they've got damage and hp), and the heroes who already have orbs or don't need them can get Manta/Geometer's for the extra dps and pushing power. This is why you see Manta/Geometers on PotM/Valkyrie and most any other carry, because they need different orbs, but the images are just so nice.

    Nullfire doesn't do summon damage in HoN? It's a good counter for Warlock/Hellbringer in DotA. Should also stop Hammerstorm's ult.

    (Mostly) Competitive Gaming Blog Updated August 18th - Monster Hunting
    stream
  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Page- wrote: »
    It's true that the heroes who actually use it as core -- naga, PL, CK -- aren't in HoN, but at the same time taking the orb effect away from Manta/Geometer's and buffing Nullfire/Diffusal has actually made them both better. The heroes who need the orb already have images and can spend their gold on better items (more hp -- Manta is luxury for image heroes now, after they've got damage and hp), and the heroes who already have orbs or don't need them can get Manta/Geometer's for the extra dps and pushing power. This is why you see Manta/Geometers on PotM/Valkyrie and most any other carry, because they need different orbs, but the images are just so nice.

    Nullfire doesn't do summon damage in HoN? It's a good counter for Warlock/Hellbringer in DotA. Should also stop Hammerstorm's ult.

    Purge kills Hellbringer's summon, yes.

    Kills it.

    Not Electrician's skill, sadly, but the skill on the item, yes.

    And yes I have gotten null/manta on heroes. And yes I love manta on faceless (if I manage to play him) as well as some other heroes.

    RonaldoTheGypsy.png
  • FugaFuga Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    heh someone with 1900 psr and 3 denies per game

    also there's now a new test client to test patches before they're in the beta client
    uh
    Here's a sneak peak at what'll be in the test client:
    (Many) Bug fixes
    Magebane Re-work
    Hero tweaks (Such as Diseased Rider and Soul Reaper)
    Behemoth's Heart Re-work
    Riftshards Re-work
    New item based on Ring of the Teacher
    New late game int item (details later)
    And does this mean that you guys are trying to shift away from being exactly like DotA, including new balance changes that IceFrog makes? If so, YAY!
    Yes, we're approaching the point in development where we feel most of the 'ground work' for HoN is in place and we can start making the necessary tweak's to HoN's gameplay. We knew from the start that the changes between HoN and DotA would be significant enough to warrant our own changes. Simple things like showing mana bars, to more complex things like a different hero pool, they all add up and have made HoN into what it is: a game based on DotA, yet different from DotA. Being a different game, it needs its own tweaks. We've got tons of information gathering tools at our disposal, including the usage of raw statistics, and with our own engine and coders to make literally any change we deem necessary, it's a pretty exciting prospect.
    yay page you don't have to whine about this anymore

  • EtiowsaEtiowsa TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I actually kinda hope they don't add in combat regen back to heart. I like how it is now.

    janenext.jpg
  • DisDis Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Etiowsa wrote: »
    I actually kinda hope they don't add in combat regen back to heart. I like how it is now.

    Ever since they remove the regen I stop buying it.
    They should make the Regen for Str Heroes only.
    And the 10s no regen to other Heroes.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • UltrachristUltrachrist Registered User
    edited September 2009
    That's pretty interesting. I hope they're not done porting heroes though. Gimme silencer :x

    ultrachrist2.png
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I will follow these changes with interest and casual optimism. No Lucy or Naga port yet is kind of failing. :x

    Also, +35 strength is still 665 hp and a bit of regen. Heart was a little broken the way it was. On the other hand, it's really changed the roles of a few old carry heroes. Heart is still your best bet for HP.

    (Mostly) Competitive Gaming Blog Updated August 18th - Monster Hunting
    stream
  • FugaFuga Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    woop a quadkill as magebane
    i told you guys he owns!
    Spoiler:

  • übergeekübergeek Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    How do I get in the PA clan? HoN name is Skuttie.

    You need to find TheLawinator, Gumpy, Khac, or myself online. Just hang out in the channel for a while and when one of us is on just ask.

    camo_sig.png
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    übergeek wrote: »
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    How do I get in the PA clan? HoN name is Skuttie.

    You need to find TheLawinator, Gumpy, Khac, deadwizard or myself online. Just hang out in the channel fora while and when one of us is on just ask.

    Will do, getting comfortable enough to play on my own and have had positive K-D the past 3 games if that means anything to you guys.

  • übergeekübergeek Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    übergeek wrote: »
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    How do I get in the PA clan? HoN name is Skuttie.

    You need to find TheLawinator, Gumpy, Khac, or myself online. Just hang out in the channel fora while and when one of us is on just ask.

    Will do, getting comfortable enough to play on my own and have had positive K-D the past 3 games if that means anything to you guys.

    Better than when I started....still digging myself out of the hole I'm in. =)

    camo_sig.png
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Oh I'm still like 30-100 or something but I did just start yesterday.

  • Gigas75Gigas75 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I've managed to claw myself back up to 1:1 k/d ratio. It's not easy. D:

    -Vergeltung

    Starcraft 2: Gigas.inabox
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Am I correct in not bothering with Moon Queens 3rd spell (the aura) usually I just max MB and multihit then ulti when I can. The rest is dumped into stats.

  • DisDis Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Gigas75 wrote: »
    I've managed to claw myself back up to 1:1 k/d ratio. It's not easy. D:

    -Vergeltung

    It is easy if you cheat.
    Just use one of your BETA key and farm kills on it.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CaedereCaedere S'no regrets BIRDIESRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Any keys available at all? Please PM me if that is the case. :O Thanks!

    FWnykYl.jpg
  • SkutSkut wrote: »
    Am I correct in not bothering with Moon Queens 3rd spell (the aura) usually I just max MB and multihit then ulti when I can. The rest is dumped into stats.

    thats what i do too. although i find only maybe 3ish in multi is enough for most parts.

  • BakerIsBoredBakerIsBored Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Op needs more Pics and movies! :)
    NDA Lifted!
    All testers are free to not only talk about HoN, but post all the screenshots, media, and movies they want. Have fun!
    Posted By: Fielding @ 9-08-2009 02:05:01 AM

    I'm heavily addicted to this game now. I figured for $30, I go ahead and pre-purchase so a few of my other friends can play for a bit before it goes retail.

    2v2's are very interesting, specially when both teams are same level all the way till their 20's.

    5v5's are very fun, and winning a 3v4 is worthy of a raised beer.

    Also, please feel free to add me BloodHarvest

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • KhaczorKhaczor Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    übergeek wrote: »
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    How do I get in the PA clan? HoN name is Skuttie.

    You need to find TheLawinator, Gumpy, Khac, deadwizard or myself online. Just hang out in the channel fora while and when one of us is on just ask.

    Will do, getting comfortable enough to play on my own and have had positive K-D the past 3 games if that means anything to you guys.

    Simply having a positive kill death ratio puts you on a level above many of those already in PA... I shall name no names though >.>......<.<.

    But I don't look at that statistic, you better work on having a high level of creep denies though. I mean what is the use of a statistic that can literally be farmed out with a few players, 30 minutes and instant respawn set. Get hundreds of kills in a match and no deaths. You can even do it yourself with 2 computers. /Shrug

Sign In or Register to comment.