Also, yeah, drug dealers/cookers/growers don't like to draw attention to themselves. If they did this, they would have put him in a place where he wouldn't have been found.
Well, it's quite possible he stumbled onto some _really_ stupid ones, who having watched too much bad TV while chemically augmented would think that doing something like that would be the bestest red herring ever, and no one would ever think to suspect drugs, and rather go chasing after right wing nutters.
I think a lot of people in this thread are having a problem of holding hammers and seeing everything as a nail here. The rise of right-wing violence is undeniable and it needs to be stopped, but that does not mean every single act of violence is tied to it somehow.
It is hardly unreasonable to believe this murder is politically motivated, given the circumstances of his death. If you didn't have such familiarity with the drug situation there, you'd probably be at a loss to provide an apolitical motivation, too.
I can see this, but the point is that there's more to the situation than a lot of people seem to realize. I'm not saying it's unreasonable for people to make that assumption, and can definitely see how people might jump to those conclusions.
But it is jumping to conclusions, IMO. I'm not saying that this definitely wasn't politically motivated, and I won't be in the least bit surprised if it was, as I said either in this thread or the other one where it was mentioned.
If it wasn't so near a park/public land even I would think the drug possibility was much less likely, but given the circumstances I think it's something everyone should consider.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Do secret meth labs even exist at known residences very often? Wouldn't that be more of an unknown shack in the middle of the woods type situation?
I can imagine some tweaker sitting in his living room with bottles of ammonia and empty sudafed packages everywhere getting a knock at the door might panic and kill the guy and just maybe even get the bright idea to throw up the 'fed' distraction.
But that didn't happen. This was just a crazy redneck that Fox pushed just far enough to kill somebody.
Do secret meth labs even exist at known residences very often? Wouldn't that be more of an unknown shack in the middle of the woods type situation?
Yes, you do find meth labs in residences. I have no idea of the break down but it's a big enough problem for there to be an industry built around cleaning up those houses.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited September 2009
And topping my list of fun things to build in the basement...
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HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
Do secret meth labs even exist at known residences very often? Wouldn't that be more of an unknown shack in the middle of the woods type situation?
I can imagine some tweaker sitting in his living room with bottles of ammonia and empty sudafed packages everywhere getting a knock at the door might panic and kill the guy and just maybe even get the bright idea to throw up the 'fed' distraction.
But that didn't happen. This was just a crazy redneck that Fox pushed just far enough to kill somebody.
Without more evidence neither of these theories is more likely than the other. I believe Occam's razor suggests political motivation, but we have absolutely no causal evidnece between Fox News and the murder.
I don't doubt that the toxic ideas coming from Beck and Bachmann are related to this murder, but I don't believe they're related in the way you're assuming. It is more likely that Bachmann and the murderer both got their anti-census sentiment from a common source. Bachmann is insidious not because she's instigating otherwise decent people but because, as an elected official of the United States government, her embrace of these ideas indicates that the insanity is moving beyond isolated crazies and into places of power.
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HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
Do secret meth labs even exist at known residences very often? Wouldn't that be more of an unknown shack in the middle of the woods type situation?
Yes, you do find meth labs in residences. I have no idea of the break down but it's a big enough problem for there to be an industry built around cleaning up those houses.
I realized it was a bit of a stupid question the way I phrased it a bit too late. Lets try this again.
This happened in an area of Kentucky that is known for some scary remote wilderness shit (kind of, right?) Wit all that dangerous wood out there, having a meth shack in an unmarked unlikely to be found area is quite easy compared to having it in your house that is a listed residence. I'm not saying these guys are Rhode scholars, but human ingenuity and all that jazz.
Census guys aren't showing up to residences that aren't listed as existing.
Improvolone on
Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
Do secret meth labs even exist at known residences very often? Wouldn't that be more of an unknown shack in the middle of the woods type situation?
I can imagine some tweaker sitting in his living room with bottles of ammonia and empty sudafed packages everywhere getting a knock at the door might panic and kill the guy and just maybe even get the bright idea to throw up the 'fed' distraction.
But that didn't happen. This was just a crazy redneck that Fox pushed just far enough to kill somebody.
Without more evidence neither of these theories is more likely than the other. I believe Occam's razor suggests political motivation, but we have absolutely no causal evidnece between Fox News and the murder.
I don't doubt that the toxic ideas coming from Beck and Bachmann are related to this murder, but I don't believe they're related in the way you're assuming. It is more likely that Bachmann and the murderer both got their anti-census sentiment from a common source. Bachmann is insidious not because she's instigating otherwise decent people but because, as an elected official of the United States government, her embrace of these ideas indicates that the insanity is moving beyond isolated crazies and into places of power.
Bachmann was the original source!
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I realized it was a bit of a stupid question the way I phrased it a bit too late. Lets try this again.
This happened in an area of Kentucky that is known for some scary remote wilderness shit (kind of, right?) Wit all that dangerous wood out there, having a meth shack in an unmarked unlikely to be found area is quite easy compared to having it in your house that is a listed residence. I'm not saying these guys are Rhode scholars, but human ingenuity and all that jazz.
Census guys aren't showing up to residences that aren't listed as existing.
These sorts of people are extremely paranoid. Once the guy identified himself as a government employee 90% of them would have assumed he was a narcotics agent and probably would have freaked out regardless of whether there was anything going on at the house or not (which was also a possibility).
There are some parts of the state - the really bad, backwoods parts - where law enforcement officers don't go without quite a bit of backup. Unfortunately, Sparkman would have had no way of knowing that.
I am wildly skeptical that any idea expounded by Bachmann is original to her. She's merely the most public face of anti-federal sentiment that runs deep in certain parts of the country, usually beneath the attention of major media outlets.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Do secret meth labs even exist at known residences very often? Wouldn't that be more of an unknown shack in the middle of the woods type situation?
Yes, you do find meth labs in residences. I have no idea of the break down but it's a big enough problem for there to be an industry built around cleaning up those houses.
I realized it was a bit of a stupid question the way I phrased it a bit too late. Lets try this again.
This happened in an area of Kentucky that is known for some scary remote wilderness shit (kind of, right?) Wit all that dangerous wood out there, having a meth shack in an unmarked unlikely to be found area is quite easy compared to having it in your house that is a listed residence. I'm not saying these guys are Rhode scholars, but human ingenuity and all that jazz.
Census guys aren't showing up to residences that aren't listed as existing.
That, and meth users are notoriously innovative. I've seen pictures of a car that the police found with modifications that would allow the driver to pop the trunk and fire a rocket containing the stash into the air.
Must be something about being awake and insane for 3 days that gives you time to think.
I am wildly skeptical that any idea expounded by Bachmann is original to her. She's merely the most public face of anti-federal sentiment that runs deep in certain parts of the country, usually beneath the attention of major media outlets.
One would assume that being a member of the federal government she would know better. Do the other congresscritters not invite her out for drinks?
Maybe she just doesn't have any friends on the hill and assumes it's a vast conspiracy against her.
I am wildly skeptical that any idea expounded by Bachmann is original to her. She's merely the most public face of anti-federal sentiment that runs deep in certain parts of the country, usually beneath the attention of major media outlets.
One would assume that being a member of the federal government she would know better. Do the other congresscritters not invite her out for drinks?
Maybe she just doesn't have any friends on the hill and assumes it's a vast conspiracy against her.
The fact that many elected members of the government run for office and go to Washington with the intention of eroding the power of the very institution they are ostensibly elected to serve isn't news.
It would be great if we only had elected officials who's stated goal was to make what the government better (which does mean smaller in some cases) rather than to make the government as useless as possible.
Do secret meth labs even exist at known residences very often? Wouldn't that be more of an unknown shack in the middle of the woods type situation?
Yes, you do find meth labs in residences. I have no idea of the break down but it's a big enough problem for there to be an industry built around cleaning up those houses.
I realized it was a bit of a stupid question the way I phrased it a bit too late. Lets try this again.
This happened in an area of Kentucky that is known for some scary remote wilderness shit (kind of, right?) Wit all that dangerous wood out there, having a meth shack in an unmarked unlikely to be found area is quite easy compared to having it in your house that is a listed residence. I'm not saying these guys are Rhode scholars, but human ingenuity and all that jazz.
Census guys aren't showing up to residences that aren't listed as existing.
That, and meth users are notoriously innovative. I've seen pictures of a car that the police found with modifications that would allow the driver to pop the trunk and fire a rocket containing the stash into the air.
Must be something about being awake and insane for 3 days that gives you time to think.
That's the insidious thing about meth. Unlike the other "hard" drugs, meth doesn't require importation or a large facility or ring. Any yahoo with access to the Internet and no particular aversion to breathing carcinogens can cook it in his bathtub. You really can't draw blanket conclusions about the types of buildings used to hide meth labs, because they're pretty much everywhere.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
That's the insidious thing about meth. Unlike the other "hard" drugs, meth doesn't require importation or a large facility or ring. Any yahoo with access to the Internet and no particular aversion to breathing carcinogens can cook it in his bathtub. You really can't draw blanket conclusions about the types of buildings used to hide meth labs, because they're pretty much everywhere.
Actually, it's gotten worse. There were reports in the news about a month or two ago of a new formulation for meth that makes enough for personal use and can be made in a 2-liter soda bottle. And the amount and composition of the precursor chemicals makes it near impossible to stop the purchase of them, unless you want to outright ban Sudafed.
I remember describing this as the "Bittorrent of meth" in absolute terror.
shut up shut up shut up don't give joe biden any ideas
I remember working at a pharmacy, and the head pharmacist would just tell people "look, either buy pseudoephedrine or buy nothing because phenylephrine isn't worth shit"
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PasserbyeI am much older than you.in Beach CityRegistered Userregular
shut up shut up shut up don't give joe biden any ideas
I remember working at a pharmacy, and the head pharmacist would just tell people "look, either buy pseudoephedrine or buy nothing because phenylephrine isn't worth shit"
IIRC the difference between psuedoephedrine and phenylephrine is like one methyl group.
I want somebody to develop a way of converting phenylephrine to meth just so the law can't treat it like a safe alternative.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited September 2009
sudafed makes my head dizzy when i take it alongside my dextroamphetamine so i dont use it
is there a reason for that feral or is it just psychosomatic on my part?
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
shut up shut up shut up don't give joe biden any ideas
I remember working at a pharmacy, and the head pharmacist would just tell people "look, either buy pseudoephedrine or buy nothing because phenylephrine isn't worth shit"
IIRC the difference between psuedoephedrine and phenylephrine is like one methyl group.
I want somebody to develop a way of converting phenylephrine to meth just so the law can't treat it like a safe alternative.
Yeah, but I don't see that really happening in a way that would make it convenient for clandestine production. Maybe a curious chemistry student will come up with something while tweaking out for a week straight, but bigtime manufacturers are importing either the ice or the pseudo from Mexico anyway.
And that is why it is such a shame this census worker was killed.
Being an Iowa resident, I've read local news enough to know that people do have meth labs in their place of residence, and yes, they do tend to explode.
shut up shut up shut up don't give joe biden any ideas
I remember working at a pharmacy, and the head pharmacist would just tell people "look, either buy pseudoephedrine or buy nothing because phenylephrine isn't worth shit"
IIRC the difference between psuedoephedrine and phenylephrine is like one methyl group.
I want somebody to develop a way of converting phenylephrine to meth just so the law can't treat it like a safe alternative.
Yeah, but I don't see that really happening in a way that would make it convenient for clandestine production. Maybe a curious chemistry student will come up with something while tweaking out for a week straight, but bigtime manufacturers are importing either the ice or the pseudo from Mexico anyway.
And that is why it is such a shame this census worker was killed.
IIRC the Patriot act actually restricts sales of those.
like you cant' go buy 20 boxes of sudafed at a time
shut up shut up shut up don't give joe biden any ideas
I remember working at a pharmacy, and the head pharmacist would just tell people "look, either buy pseudoephedrine or buy nothing because phenylephrine isn't worth shit"
IIRC the difference between psuedoephedrine and phenylephrine is like one methyl group.
I want somebody to develop a way of converting phenylephrine to meth just so the law can't treat it like a safe alternative.
Yeah, but I don't see that really happening in a way that would make it convenient for clandestine production. Maybe a curious chemistry student will come up with something while tweaking out for a week straight, but bigtime manufacturers are importing either the ice or the pseudo from Mexico anyway.
And that is why it is such a shame this census worker was killed.
IIRC the Patriot act actually restricts sales of those.
like you cant' go buy 20 boxes of sudafed at a time
Being an Iowa resident, I've read local news enough to know that people do have meth labs in their place of residence, and yes, they do tend to explode.
They're also found out here in the Phoenix area in even nicer neighborhoods. They've also discovered backpack labs too:
Posts
Well, it's quite possible he stumbled onto some _really_ stupid ones, who having watched too much bad TV while chemically augmented would think that doing something like that would be the bestest red herring ever, and no one would ever think to suspect drugs, and rather go chasing after right wing nutters.
No, it's immigrate. I would be moving there with the intent of taking up permanent residence, not just willy-nilly.
Face Twit Rav Gram
I can see this, but the point is that there's more to the situation than a lot of people seem to realize. I'm not saying it's unreasonable for people to make that assumption, and can definitely see how people might jump to those conclusions.
But it is jumping to conclusions, IMO. I'm not saying that this definitely wasn't politically motivated, and I won't be in the least bit surprised if it was, as I said either in this thread or the other one where it was mentioned.
If it wasn't so near a park/public land even I would think the drug possibility was much less likely, but given the circumstances I think it's something everyone should consider.
I can imagine some tweaker sitting in his living room with bottles of ammonia and empty sudafed packages everywhere getting a knock at the door might panic and kill the guy and just maybe even get the bright idea to throw up the 'fed' distraction.
But that didn't happen. This was just a crazy redneck that Fox pushed just far enough to kill somebody.
No, it's emigrate, since you're currently in the US and want to leave. Once you're in Canada, you'll have immigrated into Canada.
No, it's emigrate.
My understanding is that if I am leaving my country I am emigrating, but if you come to my country you are immigrating.
Yes, you do find meth labs in residences. I have no idea of the break down but it's a big enough problem for there to be an industry built around cleaning up those houses.
Without more evidence neither of these theories is more likely than the other. I believe Occam's razor suggests political motivation, but we have absolutely no causal evidnece between Fox News and the murder.
I don't doubt that the toxic ideas coming from Beck and Bachmann are related to this murder, but I don't believe they're related in the way you're assuming. It is more likely that Bachmann and the murderer both got their anti-census sentiment from a common source. Bachmann is insidious not because she's instigating otherwise decent people but because, as an elected official of the United States government, her embrace of these ideas indicates that the insanity is moving beyond isolated crazies and into places of power.
He used the word correctly. You immigrate to a country and emigrate from a country.
"I emigrated from the United States and immigrated to Canada."
I'm going by the dictionary definition. Anything else seems like splitting hairs. :P
Edit: She. But thank you, lobster man.
Face Twit Rav Gram
I realized it was a bit of a stupid question the way I phrased it a bit too late. Lets try this again.
This happened in an area of Kentucky that is known for some scary remote wilderness shit (kind of, right?) Wit all that dangerous wood out there, having a meth shack in an unmarked unlikely to be found area is quite easy compared to having it in your house that is a listed residence. I'm not saying these guys are Rhode scholars, but human ingenuity and all that jazz.
Census guys aren't showing up to residences that aren't listed as existing.
Bachmann was the original source!
not something you really want in your bathtub
There are some parts of the state - the really bad, backwoods parts - where law enforcement officers don't go without quite a bit of backup. Unfortunately, Sparkman would have had no way of knowing that.
There's a reason that we have lots of jokes about trailers exploding for no reason in my state.
I am wildly skeptical that any idea expounded by Bachmann is original to her. She's merely the most public face of anti-federal sentiment that runs deep in certain parts of the country, usually beneath the attention of major media outlets.
That, and meth users are notoriously innovative. I've seen pictures of a car that the police found with modifications that would allow the driver to pop the trunk and fire a rocket containing the stash into the air.
Must be something about being awake and insane for 3 days that gives you time to think.
One would assume that being a member of the federal government she would know better. Do the other congresscritters not invite her out for drinks?
Maybe she just doesn't have any friends on the hill and assumes it's a vast conspiracy against her.
/sigh
The fact that many elected members of the government run for office and go to Washington with the intention of eroding the power of the very institution they are ostensibly elected to serve isn't news.
Oh I certainly agree. But I'd rather we counted the actual right wing extremists, and not merely every psychotic person.
I thought dictionary definitions were foul on the PA forums.
That's the insidious thing about meth. Unlike the other "hard" drugs, meth doesn't require importation or a large facility or ring. Any yahoo with access to the Internet and no particular aversion to breathing carcinogens can cook it in his bathtub. You really can't draw blanket conclusions about the types of buildings used to hide meth labs, because they're pretty much everywhere.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I've always been a fan of the Winnebago in a field at the middle of nowhere.
Edit --
Some of you guys are as bad as the asshole English professors who act like it's a mortal sin to have a typo on a web page.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Actually, it's gotten worse. There were reports in the news about a month or two ago of a new formulation for meth that makes enough for personal use and can be made in a 2-liter soda bottle. And the amount and composition of the precursor chemicals makes it near impossible to stop the purchase of them, unless you want to outright ban Sudafed.
I remember describing this as the "Bittorrent of meth" in absolute terror.
shut up shut up shut up don't give joe biden any ideas
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I remember working at a pharmacy, and the head pharmacist would just tell people "look, either buy pseudoephedrine or buy nothing because phenylephrine isn't worth shit"
Only if you're Podly.
Face Twit Rav Gram
IIRC the difference between psuedoephedrine and phenylephrine is like one methyl group.
I want somebody to develop a way of converting phenylephrine to meth just so the law can't treat it like a safe alternative.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
is there a reason for that feral or is it just psychosomatic on my part?
Yeah, but I don't see that really happening in a way that would make it convenient for clandestine production. Maybe a curious chemistry student will come up with something while tweaking out for a week straight, but bigtime manufacturers are importing either the ice or the pseudo from Mexico anyway.
And that is why it is such a shame this census worker was killed.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
IIRC the Patriot act actually restricts sales of those.
like you cant' go buy 20 boxes of sudafed at a time
But what if you have a gigantic cyclops for a friend?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
They're also found out here in the Phoenix area in even nicer neighborhoods. They've also discovered backpack labs too:
Awesome.