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ITT we talk about jazz

YosemiteSamYosemiteSam Registered User regular
edited August 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
I searched for it and it seems like it got pruned. I got Miles's On the Corner for Christmas and I like it a lot, but I can't claim to understand it at all. I really like John McLaughlin though, here and on Bitches Brew (which now seems comparatively conservative). I've been meaning to track down some Mahavishnu Orchestra for a while now. I will say that I can't see why the album gets credit for the development of hip hop.

I didn't understand non-Miles fusion at all until I heard Dave Weckl's band live a few weeks ago and it completely blew my mind. It was so amazing, probably the best live music performance I've ever seen. The bassist, Tom Kennedy, was ridiculous. He could play significantly faster than a lot of professional guitarists I've seen.

YosemiteSam on
We are all very lucky to live in a world where there is this much music.
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Posts

  • Ninja BotNinja Bot Registered User
    edited December 2006
    My only exposure to fusion has been Bitches Brew and uggh, Whether Report. Is there any non Miles fusion out there I would enjoy if I loathe Whether Report with every inch of my body?

  • YosemiteSamYosemiteSam Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Ninja Bot wrote:
    My only exposure to fusion has been Bitches Brew and uggh, Whether Report. Is there any non Miles fusion out there I would enjoy if I loathe Whether Report with every inch of my body?
    Yeah man, I fucking hate Weather Report. I'm looking for the same thing as you, so I don't know, but like I said, Mahavishnu Orchestra is probably a safe bet even though I can't personally vouch for them.

    We are all very lucky to live in a world where there is this much music.
  • The CheeseThe Cheese Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Ninja Bot wrote:
    My only exposure to fusion has been Bitches Brew and uggh, Whether Report. Is there any non Miles fusion out there I would enjoy if I loathe Whether Report with every inch of my body?
    Try Jeff Beck's Wired and Blow By Blow

    Wired has Jan Hammer from Mahavishnu Orchestra

  • PodlyPodly good moleman to youRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Yeah, fusion is a good way to get into Jazz, but try not to stay there too long. Listen to it, then slowly start listening to bop. See, you want to go to bop to understand what Jazz really sounds like, then you have the best surprise waiting for you: hard bop. It's more accessible than bop, but it also simply sounds even more awesome, but now you will know why.

    My favorite Jazz albums include

    Miles Davis: Kind of Blue
    Clifford Brown: Clifford Brown and Max Roach
    Study in Brown
    John Coltrane: Blue Trane
    Giant Steps
    John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman
    A Love Supreme
    Oliver Nelson: Blues and the Abstract Truth (The greatest jazz album ever made)
    Art Blakey: Moanin'
    A Night at the Birdland
    Joe Pass: Virtuoso
    Freddie Hubbard: Night of the Cookers

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  • The CheeseThe Cheese Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Joe Pass is great.

    The Alex Skolnick Trio albums are hilarious. Rock/metal songs done up as bebop songs...if you want to hear No On Like You played jazz, look no further.

  • PodlyPodly good moleman to youRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    The_Cheese wrote:
    Joe Pass is great.

    The Alex Skolnick Trio albums are hilarious. Rock/metal songs done up as bebop songs...if you want to hear No On Like You played jazz, look no further.

    I spent a solid two to three years trying to be Joe Pass

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  • The CheeseThe Cheese Registered User
    edited December 2006
    I only have one Joe Pass album (Virtuoso)

    What would you recommend I check out next?

    Alex Skolnick has an open taping policy, you can check out some recordings here.

    The cover of Electric Eye is awesome.

  • SenjutsuSenjutsu fiddy too Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I'm not a fusion fan at all. I second Study in Brown, though. Poldy recommended it to me, and it is radsauce.

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • LRGLRG Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    So I been watching/listening to Sun Ra and the Arkestra on youtube lately and that shit is dope. I'm gonna actually go to the store and buy a CD.

    I don't even listen to jazz; any suggestions on Sun Ra albums or just some good jazz in general?

  • YosemiteSamYosemiteSam Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    LRG wrote:
    So I been watching/listening to Sun Ra and the Arkestra on youtube lately and that shit is dope. I'm gonna actually go to the store and buy a CD.

    I don't even listen to jazz; any suggestions on Sun Ra albums or just some good jazz in general?
    How many people didn't get into jazz by listening to John Coltrane and/or Miles Davis?

    I've been listening to a whole lot of Miles and Bird lately, and I think they're both pretty incredible.

    Poldy/anybody, what do you think of free jazz? I have Change of the Century by Ornette Coleman and I think it's really good.

    We are all very lucky to live in a world where there is this much music.
  • lesserbeinglesserbeing Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    How many people didn't get into jazz by listening to John Coltrane and/or Miles Davis?

    I actually got into Jazz first with the Django and Grappelli gypsee stuff than moved into swing which then got me into the harder shit. Jazz is like heroin except for the AIDS from a dirty needle thing- actually hmm. Also I always hated Bitches Brew till I saw the style live. Try Ornette Coleman.

    Also, anyone heard the MOnk/Coltrane album at carnegie that released about a year back?

  • PodlyPodly good moleman to youRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    The_Cheese wrote:
    What would you recommend I check out next?

    For Django is quite possible the best guitar playing I've ever heard. Definitely pick that one up.

    I'm also very partial to his album with Andre Previn and Ray Brown, After Hours IIRC. The version of "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" is absolutely stellar.

    @YSam: It depends how far you take "free jazz." If you include a lot of post-Bop like Eric Dolphy and Trane's later stuff, than i absolutely love it. Early Coleman is very interesting. True Free Jazz, however, can be truly amazing, but there's just too much boring wanking off to have to drudge through.

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  • lesserbeinglesserbeing Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    also for the not "free Jazz" set check oot Wes Montgomery and grant green

  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    LRG wrote:
    So I been watching/listening to Sun Ra and the Arkestra on youtube lately and that shit is dope. I'm gonna actually go to the store and buy a CD.

    I don't even listen to jazz; any suggestions on Sun Ra albums or just some good jazz in general?
    How many people didn't get into jazz by listening to John Coltrane and/or Miles Davis?

    I've been listening to a whole lot of Miles and Bird lately, and I think they're both pretty incredible.

    Poldy/anybody, what do you think of free jazz? I have Change of the Century by Ornette Coleman and I think it's really good.

    The Shape of Jazz to Come by Coleman, along with Free Jazz are seminal. They heralded the arrival of the free jazz idiom; definitely worth a listen if you are even vaguely interested in that strain of jazz.

    For my part, I'm a huge third stream and cool fan. So I listen to Sketches of Spain, and basically anything by Dave Brubeck or Gerry Mulligan. Both are truly amazing.

    3DS: 0232-9436-6893
  • gobassgogobassgo Registered User
    edited December 2006
    My personal favorite Miles Davis musical era was when he did his stint with Marcus Miller right as he made his comeback, before his pretty awful fusion stuff. I'm talking We Want Miles and Man With The Horn. Aside from that, Charles Mingus.

    Charles Mingus.

  • Lord Of The PantsLord Of The Pants Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Ninja Bot wrote:
    My only exposure to fusion has been Bitches Brew and uggh, Whether Report. Is there any non Miles fusion out there I would enjoy if I loathe Whether Report with every inch of my body?

    Medeski Martin And Wood. (This Video makes me pee my pants)


    Maybe, John Zorn's Electric Masada.

    Christian McBride live at tonic, only that kinda wears me down a bit.

    John Scofield Band Releases, Up All Night, Uberjam.

    Jaco Pastorius' album Jaco Pastorius. And Last But Not Least(tm)

    Chick Corea - Light As A Feather and Return To Forever (The Album)
    He has also done stuff with a band called "Return to Forever" but that stuff is very weather reporty. He has also done stuff with The Chick Corea Electric band, but that stuff sounds like, as my friend puts it, "Music From Transport Tycoon"

    Who ever said "We Want Miles" was bang goddamn right on the money, fantastic stuff that.

    Great free jazz? Get Coltrane's "One Down One Up" live at the half note, if you can't quite hear what is going on that album makes you just apreciate the power of what is going on, amazing stuff.

    For quieter Free Jazz stuff, if you can hunt down the ECM releases Universal Syncopations (Has some beautiful playing and compositions) by Miroslav Vitous, and I Have The Room Above Her by Paul Motion, do so.

    Great Jazz to get started with? Kind Of Blue, it's like Time Out, but brilliant. A classic that stands up to it's reputation.

    I personally "got" jazz with Miles Davis live at the blackhawk (or something) which got me into the swinging thing.

    For great current jazz, i'd go with Kurt Rosenwinkel, Dave Holland (Get Not For Nothing, thank me later), Chris Potter (Lift! Live at the village vanguard) Bill Frisell (East, West) John Scofield (Trio Saudedes) ahhh, and Charles Lloyd (Any of the Higgins albums - Hyperion With Higgins, Water Is Wide, Voices In The Night)

    Phew. I'm spent.[/b]

    edit: now with links, so i'm not making thins up!

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  • Dark MoonDark Moon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I'm a bit curious about all the Weather Report hatred. Why is there so much hatred for such a great group? Aside from Heavy Weather being played to hell and back, what is there not to like?

    Myself, I recently got Spheres by Keith Jarrett and have been giving it plenty of airtime. Amazing album, but not very accessible. I also got a Bill Evans album for Christmas, Sunday at the Village Vanguard, which I have yet to sit down and seriously listen to but have enjoyed when I played it as backround music while cleaning the other day.

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  • Lord Of The PantsLord Of The Pants Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Joe Zawinul, he was obsessed with synthisisers, and thus the music has a horrible dated-ness to it :(

    That and some of the compositions now just sound so downright cheesy.

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  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Joe Zawinul, he was obsessed with synthisisers, and thus the music has a horrible dated-ness to it :(

    That and some of the compositions now just sound so downright cheesy.

    The only thing I like about Weather Report is Birdland, and Wayne Shorter's godliness on the soprano sax. Everything else is blah.
    Sunday at the Village Vanguard

    You, my friend, have obtained one of the greatest live jazz albums ever recorded. I actually prefer alot of the alternate takes they did, especially for Alice in Wonderland.

    3DS: 0232-9436-6893
  • Dark MoonDark Moon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Ah okay. I'm from the complete opposite camp-I love the synths. How he ever got such amazing sounds out of such primitive, analog synthesizers is beyond me. His rig was always really amazing just as eye candy during their live shows, as it usually consisted of about 10 keyboards and racks upon racks of modules.

    Has anyone here listened to any of Zawinul's latest stuff, though? He's now got a group called The Zawinul Syndicate which is, as close as I can tell, another fusion group very similar to WP but with vocals and not as good. From the two albums I have, Lost Tribes and Black Water, I've deduced Zawinul has retreated from creating original sounds and instead uses exclusively the standard MIDI trumpet found on a DX-7. He also indulges in tacky narrarative tracks describing a barber/saxophonist who disses Monk and some pretty lame pop tunes. I am not very fond of these albums, but I'm still considering picking up their latest album, The Immigrants, in hopes of it being better. Has anyone here heard that record and can attest to it being decent/good?

    Edit: Funny you should mention that Birdland is your favourite tune-it's actually one of my least favourite WRP tunes. It's not that it's not a very well written song, but rather because it's so overplayed. My favourite Weather Report tracks would have to be A Remark You Made off of Heavy Weather and pretty much the entirety of Night Passage and The Mysterious Traveller albums. They're just so yummy.

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  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    So, I picked up Kind of Blue the other day. I like it. I like it a lot.

    I'm not sure where do go from here, though. I'd like to pick up a few more CDs... more Miles Davis, maybe? I'd also like to try something a bit more piano-oriented.

    Per3th.jpg
  • YosemiteSamYosemiteSam Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Elendil wrote:
    I'd also like to try something a bit more piano-oriented.
    Bill Evans. You really need to get some Bill Evans. Edit: by the way, he was the pianist on Kind of Blue. I know you liked that intro to "So What."

    You also might like Lennie Tristano, he's strongly influenced by classical.

    Weather Report just sounds really cheesy to me, plus a lot dumber than everything at least 20 years before it in jazz. Tower of Power too.

    We are all very lucky to live in a world where there is this much music.
  • gobassgogobassgo Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Tower of Power is not jazz nor fusion. They are just pretty much straight up soul/funk.

    As for piano music, try Thelonious Monk, Herbie Hancock, or McCoy Tyner,

  • YosemiteSamYosemiteSam Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    gobassgo wrote:
    Tower of Power is not jazz nor fusion. They are just pretty much straight up soul/funk.
    You're right. I just group them together mentally because the same person recommended both groups to me at the same time. I had forgotten what they actually sounded like, I just remembered hating them.

    Alternatively: what is hip? Not you, Tower of Power.

    I love Monk. His improvisations are amazing.

    We are all very lucky to live in a world where there is this much music.
  • gobassgogobassgo Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Tower of Power has their moments. Garbaldi and Prestia are great players, and their horn section is just tight as hell.

  • YosemiteSamYosemiteSam Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    How do you guys feel about older stuff like Count Basie and Duke Ellington? I love April in Paris (the whole album), I don't care if that makes me an 80-year-old on the inside.

    We are all very lucky to live in a world where there is this much music.
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Fighting the War on String Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I'm a fan of big band arrangements (probably because I played in one in highschool) and they're a nice break from the long solos in combo tunes. I have a lot of Ellington songs. Anyone know of a less traditional big band?

    And I fell in love with jazz when we transcribed Miles Davis' solo in So What. It's probably overplayed but I still find it magnificent. I love whistling it :P .

    Elki wrote: »

    Casual Eddy: best poster 2014.
  • PodlyPodly good moleman to youRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    "Well You Needn't" is one of the quirkiest, coolest compositions ever.

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  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Well, Thelonious Monk is :^: :^:

    Haven't gotten to the Bill Evans album yet.

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  • PodlyPodly good moleman to youRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Elendil wrote:

    Haven't gotten to the Bill Evans album yet.

    Sunday at the Village Vanguard is absolutely amazing. Alice in Wonderland is like christmas all year round.

    Portrait in Jazz is great straight up piano trio.

    Waltz for Debby has some really great moments.

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  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Waltz for Debby is the one. Brilliant Corners for Monk.

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  • SnorkSnork Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Joe Pass is win. As is Clifford Brown/Max Roach.

  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I'm a fan of big band arrangements (probably because I played in one in highschool) and they're a nice break from the long solos in combo tunes. I have a lot of Ellington songs. Anyone know of a less traditional big band?

    And I fell in love with jazz when we transcribed Miles Davis' solo in So What. It's probably overplayed but I still find it magnificent. I love whistling it :P .

    Far East Suite and Such Sweet Thunder are my favourite Ellington albums. They're just pure gold.

    3DS: 0232-9436-6893
  • Lord Of The PantsLord Of The Pants Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Elendil wrote:
    So, I picked up Kind of Blue the other day. I like it. I like it a lot.

    I'm not sure where do go from here, though. I'd like to pick up a few more CDs... more Miles Davis, maybe? I'd also like to try something a bit more piano-oriented.

    "Jazz At The Plaza" it's only 40min, but it's the Kind Of Blue band live, fantastic stuff. I'd rate it slightly higher than Newport 1958 which is the only other Kind Of Blue Band recording (Aside from that selection of tracks they did in the studio, can't remember what it's released on (if anything)).

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  • Lord Of The PantsLord Of The Pants Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    saggio wrote:
    I'm a fan of big band arrangements (probably because I played in one in highschool) and they're a nice break from the long solos in combo tunes. I have a lot of Ellington songs. Anyone know of a less traditional big band?

    And I fell in love with jazz when we transcribed Miles Davis' solo in So What. It's probably overplayed but I still find it magnificent. I love whistling it :P .

    Far East Suite and Such Sweet Thunder are my favourite Ellington albums. They're just pure gold.

    They only Ellington I own is Money Jungle. That album is singlehandedly 30 years ahead of it's time.

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  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Elendil wrote:
    So, I picked up Kind of Blue the other day. I like it. I like it a lot.

    I'm not sure where do go from here, though. I'd like to pick up a few more CDs... more Miles Davis, maybe? I'd also like to try something a bit more piano-oriented.

    "Jazz At The Plaza" it's only 40min, but it's the Kind Of Blue band live, fantastic stuff. I'd rate it slightly higher than Newport 1958 which is the only other Kind Of Blue Band recording (Aside from that selection of tracks they did in the studio, can't remember what it's released on (if anything)).

    I think you're referring to Cookin',Steamin',Workin', and Relaxin' with the Miles Davis Quintet. That's the group of four albums Prestige (I think it was Prestige) released over one year from a couple of recording sessions with the First Great Quintet. None of them are groundbreaking - mostly just Davis playing straight-ahead standards or whatever. The most interesting part is hearing Coltrane before his sheets-of-sound phase.

    3DS: 0232-9436-6893
  • YosemiteSamYosemiteSam Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    saggio wrote:
    Elendil wrote:
    So, I picked up Kind of Blue the other day. I like it. I like it a lot.

    I'm not sure where do go from here, though. I'd like to pick up a few more CDs... more Miles Davis, maybe? I'd also like to try something a bit more piano-oriented.

    "Jazz At The Plaza" it's only 40min, but it's the Kind Of Blue band live, fantastic stuff. I'd rate it slightly higher than Newport 1958 which is the only other Kind Of Blue Band recording (Aside from that selection of tracks they did in the studio, can't remember what it's released on (if anything)).

    I think you're referring to Cookin',Steamin',Workin', and Relaxin' with the Miles Davis Quintet. That's the group of four albums Prestige (I think it was Prestige) released over one year from a couple of recording sessions with the First Great Quintet. None of them are groundbreaking - mostly just Davis playing straight-ahead standards or whatever. The most interesting part is hearing Coltrane before his sheets-of-sound phase.
    Although Kind of Blue adds Cannonball Adderley to make it a sextet and substitutes Jimmy Cobb on drums instead of Philly Joe Jones.

    We are all very lucky to live in a world where there is this much music.
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    saggio wrote:
    Elendil wrote:
    So, I picked up Kind of Blue the other day. I like it. I like it a lot.

    I'm not sure where do go from here, though. I'd like to pick up a few more CDs... more Miles Davis, maybe? I'd also like to try something a bit more piano-oriented.

    "Jazz At The Plaza" it's only 40min, but it's the Kind Of Blue band live, fantastic stuff. I'd rate it slightly higher than Newport 1958 which is the only other Kind Of Blue Band recording (Aside from that selection of tracks they did in the studio, can't remember what it's released on (if anything)).

    I think you're referring to Cookin',Steamin',Workin', and Relaxin' with the Miles Davis Quintet. That's the group of four albums Prestige (I think it was Prestige) released over one year from a couple of recording sessions with the First Great Quintet. None of them are groundbreaking - mostly just Davis playing straight-ahead standards or whatever. The most interesting part is hearing Coltrane before his sheets-of-sound phase.
    Although Kind of Blue adds Cannonball Adderley to make it a sextet and substitutes Jimmy Cobb on drums instead of Philly Joe Jones.

    I always thought Adderley was post-Kind of Blue.

    3DS: 0232-9436-6893
  • gobassgogobassgo Registered User
    edited January 2007
    Nope. Adderly was on Kind of Blue.

  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    gobassgo wrote:
    Nope. Adderly was on Kind of Blue.

    Well I'll be damned. He was on Kind of Blue.

    3DS: 0232-9436-6893
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