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Want to buy a new car. Don't want to be raped.

HyperAquaBlastHyperAquaBlast Registered User regular
edited October 2009 in Help / Advice Forum
Ok so after a lot of research and a test drive I very much want to get a 2010 Mazda3 GT with the tech and sound package. Now this being the first time I ever began the process of buying a brand new car, I'm a little worried and confused since its not like buying anything else and I feel I am being screwed over or I can get a better price some other time. I also hate the idea of haggling and I am very accepting on offers but only if they match near what everyone else is charging. So that right there I know makes me a horrible car buyer.

I have been going with the USAA car buying service because they gave me a trusted dealer and a flat price for the model and options I want and guaranteed no haggling would be needed which is a plus in my book. So after that I go to the dealer and they obviously don't have the model trim I want and explain the savings from the USAA service only applies to vehicles on the lot. But there is a one Mazda3 that is a little more feature loaded then what I want and they can trade from another dealer a state away to sell to me. Or I can order one and expect it sometime in March or April from Japan.

So using USAA again for pricing out the car they now offered to sell me from another dealership it comes out to $24,200 from the MSRP of $25,140.

Here is what I got from the guy yesterday after telling him I'd go home and think about it:
Spoiler:

Now the rebate as explained from the guy is only if I use the financing from the dealership and the adjusted KBB price is the trade in offer for my current '97 Camry which is in ok shape with 166,000Mi. Now this already sound shitty and then from what I have read about processing fees I feel even more screwed over. Even the guy said for me to just sell my car somewhere else since that blew so much.

Now on the financing I'm confused. I have a credit score of 833 which will get the best rates. The banks I have looked at put the APR at an average of 5.5% where as the dealership bank is up there on the pic. Thing is I hear going through the dealership for financing is the worst idea. In either case I plan to make the down payment at least half the price of the car and then get a loan covering the rest. I am pretty financially stable and a loan would be my only debt so I am pretty confident that I could do a 3 year plan of an about $12,000 loan.

Man I'm so put off by this but I have been wanting to get a new car for almost a year now but have been playing wait and see. I don't want to get in that rut where you keep waiting till something good comes along and when it does there is something even better just over the horizon thus making you want to wait again.

HyperAquaBlast on
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Posts

  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2009
    I'd go check out other dealerships.

    Just remember that car salesmen are sub-human, and should be treated as such. You owe them nothing, ever.

  • eternalbleternalbl Registered User
    edited October 2009
    Couple tips: While there might not be much room to haggle on the cars price, you can haggle on your trade-in's value. Educate yourself on what other cars like yours are going for in private sale. You won't get that out of a dealer, but you should be able to get say 75% of that depending on the condition of your car.

    Financing isn't inherently bad at a dealership. If you can get a lower interest rate by going with them, why not save yourself the money. Make sure you read over what you're signing and understand it, but otherwise paying 5.5% with a bank because you don't trust dealerships is ripping yourself off.

    One thing I don't understand is the USAA car buying service refers you to a dealership with a quote for a car that dealer doesn't have? I'd be seriously suspicious of that. Does the USAA car buying service cost you anything? Are you willing to shop around to find the car, and then ask the USAA to give you a quote from a dealer you know has it?
    Doc wrote: »
    I'd go check out other dealerships.

    Just remember that car salesmen are sub-human, and should be treated as such. You owe them nothing, ever.

    Mostly true. Mostly

    Spoiler:
  • TexiKenTexiKen unable to feel my retinal assessment Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    $500 for a Camry? Biiiiiitch please. Even on a trade in you can get $2,000. Especially since used car prices have been going up all year.


    Don't use this USAA stuff. If you're hovering at $26k for a brand new car the way you want it, you can start by offering only $24k drive out (that means you don't pay TT&L). From there you can haggle with APR % and trade-in.

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  • HyperAquaBlastHyperAquaBlast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Well the USAA thing is part of the military bank I use now and doesn't cost anything. Apparently its an offshoot of this Zag place.

    I have looked around locally and the other places also only have the lower versions of the car in stock I want so I don't think I can compare. But I have done the theoretical pricing from all the places that could offer a Mazda3 and the prices are roughly the same. According to the 3 different internet based car price sites I used.

    Man I just want a straight price and pay that. Like anything else. Why are cars so weird? I really can't see myself haggling around places as I'm not that type.

    And yeah I could get a lot more for the Camry in a private sale. Even the guy said so . I am already looking and pricing out what I can sell it for or just sell it to a family member.

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  • TexiKenTexiKen unable to feel my retinal assessment Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    It's not even private sale, a trade in value should be at least $2500 for a '97 Camry with 166k miles going by the NADA, which is what a dealer uses more than KBB. A used Camry, Accord, or Maxima in that range can sell for $5k retail.

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  • eternalbleternalbl Registered User
    edited October 2009
    Man I just want a straight price and pay that. Like anything else. Why are cars so weird? I really can't see myself haggling around places as I'm not that type.

    Dude, that's the sticker price. If you want to get a better price, you need to become the type to haggle.

    Really, getting 1000 off the sticker price is pretty good. I don't wanna jeopardize my work, but trust me on that. You can easily get more for that Camry though depending on it's condition, so that's where you should focus.

    Edit: just to give you a better idea of what's going on with this deal, from their perspective. They're lowballing you on your trade so they can make back the loss on the sticker price of the car. They're hoping you'll take the awesome deal on the Mazda when in reality with the consideration of the Camry its not that great of a deal overall.

    Spoiler:
  • HyperAquaBlastHyperAquaBlast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Ok so for a second question, is what I'm looking at for the offer pretty good? Its a bit below MSRP which is good right? And then some off from the dealership price? Its a brand new model year fully loaded so in my eyes its not a bad deal its just the little things that scare me.

    But new mission is to try to get a lot more for my Camry when I talk to the guy again tomorrow. She is in really good shape save for some rusting on some spots and the interior showing its age in use.

    And TexiKen if I offer how would I shave off the tax and title? Thats probably the one thing I wouldn't even try to haggle about in my mind since its official stuff.

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  • CrashtardCrashtard Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I would imagine you can get them to come down more on the price of the car. I just bought a new car in March, and the deal came down 4,000 on a car that had a sticker price of 17500. They also gave me $1000 for my piece of shit 96 beretta. As long as your car runs great and is in decent shape you should be able to get at least 1000 for trade in.

    I pinky swear that we will not screw you.

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  • TexiKenTexiKen unable to feel my retinal assessment Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    With small cars like the 3, you can't get a lot off, since small cars aren't as profitable as Trucks and SUVs. And when cars have navigation and sound systems added, that's pretty much all profit, so there is some wiggle room there in haggling.

    Regarding TT&L, it's not really official, they just eat it. Think of it as a deeper discount on the car, instead of offering 23k for a car you say 24k or 24.5k, drive-out. When I've dealt with dealers they will usually eat the TT&L because it doesn't look as bad on their numbers when you sell a 26k car for 24k drive out compared to selling it for 23k (usually TT&L is around 1,000-1,500 bucks)

    One final thing I would say is you can get a lot more being flexible on which car you want. If you set your sights on just a 3 and don't have a fallback, even for haggling (like a Matrix XRS, or a Focus SES), it can show through.

    Also, never give them your car keys when you get on the lot. In fact, if they offer to do that, run.

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  • HyperAquaBlastHyperAquaBlast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Yeah I may have messed up there. I told him how I want a 3 but I don't mind going somewhere else to get it. I was hoping that tactic would work to show he didn't have me locked down. But I honestly don't have a fall back car now since I ruled all the others options out awhile ago.

    And I um handed him my car keys so he could check out my car when I asked about a trade in...big mistake?

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  • TexiKenTexiKen unable to feel my retinal assessment Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    As a general rule, never give them the keys to your car, because shadier dealerships will actually hold them under the guise of a free car wash or complimentary inspection until you agree to a deal, with people having to resort to calling the cops to get their keys back. There was a dealership in Houston, Landmark Chevrolet (and Bill Heard Chevy) that were notorious for that.

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  • MrOlettaMrOletta Registered User
    edited October 2009
    http://www.carbuyingtips.com

    Is a fairly good and comprehensive read. It has a lot of things that you should look out for (dealer scams, ad fees etc). Some of it gets a little preachy, but overall I found it fairly informational.

    I just purchased a new Tacoma about 3 weeks ago myself, and I was able to get it for $300 under invoice price.

  • HyperAquaBlastHyperAquaBlast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    He just seemed to inspect my car when he took my keys. This is a pretty normal big to do dealership so I felt ok. Had it been some family owned one or something less then I would have been uneasy.


    I read through almost that whole site last month. Its what kinda got me really paranoid about this whole business but when i started using the USAA service and knew my credit score I felt a bit better.

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  • CorvusCorvus Caw? VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Have you had a look at Edmunds to see what other people are paying for the same car?

    Here's the Mazda 3 Prices Paid and Buying Experiences Thread.

    I appreciate how awful the car buying process seems to be. I've been in the market for about six months now, and I totally would have purchased one ages ago if it wasn't such a pain to not get ripped off.

    Edit: I don't know what the US equivalent to Car Cost Canada is, but you should look into it. CCC give folks the price the dealer pays for the car, which gives you a much better idea of what a fair price is. Hint, it's not the sticker price!

  • Iceman.USAFIceman.USAF Captain East CoastRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    The USAA car buying service is pretty great, but you've got to be willing to throw it in their faces pretty hard. When I was looking for my RX8, I went through them looking at an '08 (year old model) brand new. Their quote for a GT model was $25,000. When I spoke to the dealer (who called me, mind you, after sending him my number through USAA) he said "THat's a pretty aggressive offer I dont think we can do that."

    Long and short of it is, when I told him I would get his dealship removed from the USAA service for giving me the run around, he magically "found" another 2008 that I wanted for 25,500.

    Also, if you feel like you're being forced into it, skip. Do you NEED a car now? Probably not. Shop around. Wait for a deal. Don't be pressured.

    Also, USAA will probably have better rates for any financing you want to do. Not always, but usually.

    Shamless plug, but I'm selling said RX-8 in favor of buying a house. So, ya know, if you're interested, shoot me a pm! It's a 2006, and gorgeous.



  • The Black HunterThe Black Hunter Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I don't see the point in every getting a brand new car, is it your only option?

    for 3/4's the price you can get a faster, more comfortable and better looking car

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  • HyperAquaBlastHyperAquaBlast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Part of the reason is that I'm not big on gettingused stuff cause I'm that fancy. Especially if its over $1k. Just the fact the car I wanted would have to driven up from North Carolina for the trade sorta put me off. Other reason I'd like all the new features in a new car.

    Unless you can point me to a newish unused car that can teched up to a resemble somekind of F-22 cockpit?

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  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, so check out truecar.com. It's a pretty awesome price and will tell you based on sales in your area what a "good" and "you're getting raped!" price is for your area.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I'd look at getting them to knock down the APR with your credit score. There's no real reason the longer loan should have a higher rate, and if you can get them to knock it down to 1.9 you'd be saving 250 dollars per year on interest. Some dealers will let you waive the rebate in exchange for better financing terms, which is a good deal as 500 dolllars is peanuts compared to what you'll eat on interest on a car loan. Ask for zero percent and work up from there.

  • Liquid HellzLiquid Hellz Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    If you can wait and want to spend a little time looking you can probably find that same model with those options with a few thousand miles on it for a good discount. It will still be under warranty and everything. That how I got my truck new in 2004, the guy that owned it just gave it back because he was too big to fit in it I guess.

    What I do for a living:
    Home Inspection and Wind Mitigation
    http://www.FairWindInspections.com/
  • kaliyamakaliyama Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Pay for this, and take your time doing the whole process.
    http://www.fightingchance.com/

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  • Iceman.USAFIceman.USAF Captain East CoastRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    If you can wait and want to spend a little time looking you can probably find that same model with those options with a few thousand miles on it for a good discount. It will still be under warranty and everything. That how I got my truck new in 2004, the guy that owned it just gave it back because he was too big to fit in it I guess.


    This is very true. I got my car from a used dealer, but the first owner was Mazda corporate for a fleet vehicle. <15,000 in 2 years, incredibly clean.



  • JRoseyJRosey Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I know you're set on the 3 but Scion has a no-haggle pricing system (basically its like buying anything else in the world) that I simply adore.

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  • Namel3ssNamel3ss Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I would way rather have a 1 or 2 year old Audi A3 over a brand new Mazda, but maybe that's just me. As soon as you drive that puppy off the lot its automatically worth so much less.

    May the wombat of happiness snuffle through your underbrush.
  • HyperAquaBlastHyperAquaBlast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Well what I'm ultimately looking for is something quick, maneuverable and not a hatchback. Big plus are that its rather new and has a crazy teched out interior that doesn't bust over $25k after all said options. I really really don't like used stuff at all with the exceptions of housing and just recently, video games.

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  • TexiKenTexiKen unable to feel my retinal assessment Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    What you can look at are dealer show vehicles that they use for a year as company cars for the employees, which have at most 9k miles on them, that are often sold when the new model year comes out at a decent discount.

    You could also look at the Kia Forte Koup, which is a nice looking car with decent pickup (pretty much the same HP as the 3 GT) and has a lot of stuff as well, but is 5k less. I know, I know, it's a Kia but they've really made this car to fight the Civic in the US. It has a good engine, they're using timing chains now, 3 wheel disc brakes, they are really trying to show they can compete with the Civic and Corolla in reliability but not sacrifice quality for looks.

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  • musanmanmusanman Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I bought a car this weekend and went in telling the guy my monthly payments maximum. Basically I knew what it would be financed at sticker price and lowballed that by about $2500. I ended up getting about $1800 off the sticker of a 2010 mazda 3, so $18k for my automatic itouring.

    Pretty happy with the way it went down, I didn't get the scumbag impression from the salesman or the owner he was talking down.

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  • DelzhandDelzhand motivated battle programmerRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I found this to be immensely enlightening:

    Confessions of a Car Salesman: http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/page003.html

    My dad is a car salesman, and this article actually went a long way towards helping me figure out why we're so different. The industry changes people. But to say they're not human is internet hyperbole (obviously). At the end of the day, polite but firm is the way to be, no one wants to engage a hostile asshole, and that works both ways.

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  • Iceman.USAFIceman.USAF Captain East CoastRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    No offense but from what I gather, going in discussing monthly payments is a very bad idea. Everything I've read says to discuss bottom line price THEN talk about your payment options.

    Not saying it didn't work for you, but in general probably not the best approach.



  • HyperAquaBlastHyperAquaBlast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Yeah with whatever I get I plan to pay off as quick as I can. So I have been trying to come to a good end price.

    I'm still quite entranced by the 3 but I'm getting that overload of buyers regret even with out buying anything. Kinda pre regret. Only thing I can compare it to is when I have bought video cards and processors. Just knowing something could be better around the corner or a sale but I'd really like to play Crysis with full effects now.

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  • Iceman.USAFIceman.USAF Captain East CoastRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    If it helps, I'm really not a huge fan of the 3. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my RX-8 so its not small car hate. The 3 just seems...I dunno. Not quite there. The new 6's are very nice, but also pretty pricey.



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