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F*cking the Peach, and other stories.

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Posts

  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    The main difference between some pieces of art and others is intent. I think the majority of game art is done for the sake of making money rather than art's sake, whereas it's far easier to find artsy photos, paintings, etc, done for art's sake alone. I believe that this is what makes video game characters much less "beautiful" than a painting or a photo: the consumerism injected into them to get teenage boys to [strike]fap[/strike] flock to the game destroys the artistic spark. Add in uncanny valley and you get a 3D model that's just not that attractive past the initial glimpse.

    Opty on
  • LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Skelly B wrote: »
    Melkster wrote: »
    The heterosexism in this thread makes me sad, so allow me to inject some gay into this:

    Back when I played WoW, I had a shirtless Blood Elf Paladin with a big two handed sword and tight chain mail leggings on every server I played on, just so it could be there in my character list when I logged in.

    And no, I am not ashamed.

    I'm certainly not complaining about the wealth of beefy men in video games.

    It's not lame to find artwork attractive when it was clearly engineered with that purpose. It is lame to substitute social interaction with simulation whether it is with a video game, real doll or whatever.

    You don't really know what heterosexism is, do you?

    LoveIsUnity on
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  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Langly wrote: »
    I think there's a difference between finding any sort of art or rendered image attractive, and actively pursuing a relationship with that image. (and that shit is real)

    At least if he's fucking a pillow sham he can't procreate.

    PF: Pro at finding the bright side

    Rent on
  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Skelly B wrote: »
    Melkster wrote: »
    The heterosexism in this thread makes me sad, so allow me to inject some gay into this:

    Back when I played WoW, I had a shirtless Blood Elf Paladin with a big two handed sword and tight chain mail leggings on every server I played on, just so it could be there in my character list when I logged in.

    And no, I am not ashamed.

    I'm certainly not complaining about the wealth of beefy men in video games.

    It's not lame to find artwork attractive when it was clearly engineered with that purpose. It is lame to substitute social interaction with simulation whether it is with a video game, real doll or whatever.

    You don't really know what heterosexism is, do you?

    Oh please please please don't bait Melkster, he's going to write a 5 page rant about the views of gays in society and how the Catholic Church is evil and blah blah blah and no one cares any more
    (I say this because I'm Catholic and I just don't want to hear that shit right now, all it does is piss me off)

    Rent on
  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    All I know is that Elika and the Prince had some really damn good dialog and the DLC should be on the PC.

    Goomba on
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  • FeintFeint Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Why should videogames be held to any different standard than the canvas or the clay? It's just a medium of expression, where we replicate our desires in a way that evokes an emotion.

    That's it. It's pretty simple, really, and all I just said equates to what another poster said before me, "I like pixel tits."

    Yes we all like tits, pixel or otherwise. Or we like butts, or pecs, or a defined jaw structure. Whatever. Beauty is what it is and it's a blessed enough concept to not need a fanfare of words upon entrance. You see it and you feel.

    Feint on
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  • baudattitudebaudattitude Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Langly wrote: »
    I think there's a difference between finding any sort of art or rendered image attractive, and actively pursuing a relationship with that image. (and that shit is real)

    It doesn't matter if you think Laura Croft is hot, and fantasizing about a fictional character is the same exercise as fantasizing about Angelina Jolie. They're both fictional encounters in your head, there's not really a distinction.

    But if you started telling people you were "dating" Angelina Jolie, and you proved this by carrying around a card board cut out of her, you'd be engaging in something much stranger and much more unhealthy than a simple fantasy.

    I'm actually more disturbed by the idea of carrying around the Jolie standee than the poor doofus with his Nemu daimakura*; for some reason that crosses a line from pathetic to potentially dangerous levels of obsession. (see also: Hinkley, Jodie Foster, etc)



    * a Nemu daimakura mostly makes me question his taste, she was a total bitch. Kotori FTW.

    baudattitude on
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    All I know is that Elika and the Prince had some really damn good dialog and the DLC should be on the PC.

    You disappoint me Goomba. I ARE DISAPPOINT.

    surrealitycheck on
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  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    7ac-tifa-1.jpg

    Professor Snugglesworth on
  • Flippy_DFlippy_D Digital Conquistador LondonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Toaster wrote: »
    When someone looks at this set of pixels and says "I'd hit that," there's an implied "...if she were real." If it turns out she is real then it is deemed socially appropriate. Otherwise it is not.

    Seems more like it might have more to to with it being impossible to have sex with something that doesn't exist.

    The Birth of Venus was not a historical event.

    Flippy_D on
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  • Flippy_DFlippy_D Digital Conquistador LondonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Also the bemusement of some people in the thread is exactly what I'd like to investigate. Why indeed is it so 'sad' to find game characters physically attractive (erotic)? What's the ontology of that?

    Flippy_D on
    p8fnsZD.png
  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Oh...kay

    I don't think the question is 'Is she hot?' but 'Is she beautiful?"

    I think Yuna is a beautiful character. Terra, sorta. But I don't think Tifa is- far too "HEY GUISE BREASTS AND FIGHTIN"

    Rent on
  • QuirkyLittleTyrantQuirkyLittleTyrant A Mug Featuring Pichu On A Cloud Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I read something on how fapping to pixelated boobs should be the same as fapping to marble-carved boobs and then I clicked on a link that is going to have Chris Hanson beating down my door.

    What the hell.

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  • Flippy_DFlippy_D Digital Conquistador LondonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    See for me it's the other way around.

    I can see beauty in characters very easily, for instance in the ones I posted in the OP.

    But I can't feel physical attraction to them at the moment. But some can, and that's derided. I'm wondering if that's fair, and if so, why? And of course - if not, why not?


    edit: QLT: http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2009/sep/30/brooke-shields-naked-tate-modern

    Flippy_D on
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  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Flippy_D wrote: »
    Also the bemusement of some people in the thread is exactly what I'd like to investigate. Why indeed is it so 'sad' to find game characters physically attractive (erotic)? What's the ontology of that?

    I find discussing what I find erotic to be incredibly embarassing

    Unless it's something relatively "normal"

    I imagine everyone else in this thread is like that, with sliding definitions of "normal"

    Rent on
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Skelly B wrote: »
    Melkster wrote: »
    The heterosexism in this thread makes me sad, so allow me to inject some gay into this:

    Back when I played WoW, I had a shirtless Blood Elf Paladin with a big two handed sword and tight chain mail leggings on every server I played on, just so it could be there in my character list when I logged in.

    And no, I am not ashamed.

    I'm certainly not complaining about the wealth of beefy men in video games.

    It's not lame to find artwork attractive when it was clearly engineered with that purpose. It is lame to substitute social interaction with simulation whether it is with a video game, real doll or whatever.

    You don't really know what heterosexism is, do you?

    No, probably not. I was probably thinking heterocentrism, maybe? The idea that homosexuality is just plain absent or under-represented in media? How it's kind of ignored generally?

    Anyway, I was just trying to say that the thread could use some gay. :P And so could video games!

    Melkster on
  • FeintFeint Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Flippy_D wrote: »
    See for me it's the other way around.

    I can see beauty in characters very easily, for instance in the ones I posted in the OP.

    But I can't feel physical attraction to them at the moment. But some can, and that's derided. I'm wondering if that's fair, and if so, why? And of course - if not, why not?

    Where you are appreciating, others are desiring. Neither are inherently wrong or abnormal, but both can be taken too far.

    But I will reiterate: So what?

    Feint on
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  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I don't know, I think it's mostly because it used to be hilarious.

    This was Lara Croft:
    Tomb_Raider_Tomb_of_Qualopec.png
    This was Tifa:
    ffvii_tifa.jpg

    It's like jerking off to "nude descending a staircase".

    Now, it's less so. You can produce, for instance, a reasonably convincing Kristen Bell:
    kristinbellassassinscreed1.jpg

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  • LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Rent wrote: »
    Skelly B wrote: »
    Melkster wrote: »
    The heterosexism in this thread makes me sad, so allow me to inject some gay into this:

    Back when I played WoW, I had a shirtless Blood Elf Paladin with a big two handed sword and tight chain mail leggings on every server I played on, just so it could be there in my character list when I logged in.

    And no, I am not ashamed.

    I'm certainly not complaining about the wealth of beefy men in video games.

    It's not lame to find artwork attractive when it was clearly engineered with that purpose. It is lame to substitute social interaction with simulation whether it is with a video game, real doll or whatever.

    You don't really know what heterosexism is, do you?

    Oh please please please don't bait Melkster, he's going to write a 5 page rant about the views of gays in society and how the Catholic Church is evil and blah blah blah and no one cares any more
    (I say this because I'm Catholic and I just don't want to hear that shit right now, all it does is piss me off)

    I was responding to Skelly, not Melkster.

    LoveIsUnity on
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  • FeintFeint Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Flippy_D wrote: »

    These are always amusing to me. A censor will rarely have the insight or the humility to admit that their actions shed more light on themselves than the people they censor.

    Edit:
    Prince used the image as the source material for his own 1983 piece; he placed it in a gilt frame and displayed it, without labelling or explanation, in a shopfront in a then rundown street in Lower East Side, New York.

    Prince was hardcore.

    Feint on
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  • Flippy_DFlippy_D Digital Conquistador LondonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    You might say 'so what?', but I think that puts you in the minority. I don't care that much either, but I find it interesting to look at why people think feeling physical lust for a videogame character in particular is so much worse than other mediums.

    I made the topic because I can't alight on an answer and was keen to hear opinions.

    Flippy_D on
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  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I too view video game characters in the most patriarchal way possible

    Metal Gear Solid 2 Demo on
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  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    Flippy_D wrote: »
    Also the bemusement of some people in the thread is exactly what I'd like to investigate. Why indeed is it so 'sad' to find game characters physically attractive (erotic)? What's the ontology of that?
    Well it works like this, see


    The artists are playing to nerds lack of social graces and urges for the touch of a woman. So they get to interact with them in games, admire their less than average amounts of clothing, fantasize about them. I mean, fuck, look at this.

    That's why it's not art. That's why it's a joke.

    That said Elika and the Prince are still great characters in a great game with DLC that should come to PC.

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  • Flippy_DFlippy_D Digital Conquistador LondonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Enders, I don't know if you're responding to me, but you can have discussions about female beauty and sexuality without being patriarchal. If you'd like to point out what's patriarchal about it...

    edit: Goomba, good point.

    Flippy_D on
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  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    See, to me that Kristen Bell compar-o-photo just shows how far we still have to go. Yes, it's orders of magnitude better than the polygonal boobies above, but that's deep in the uncanny valley there, and the final rush is uphill like whoa. The lack of shadowing around the eyes, the flat hair, the airbrush-textured forehead and cheeks ... while it seems like nitpicking, the closer you approach photorealism the more the abherrations stand out.

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  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Discussing such things in the context of video games, which are in 9/10 instances advertised solely to young males, is pretty useless. We're far, far from the point of examples of art you posted in the op

    hubbahubba.jpg

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  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    People love to flog the Uncanny Valley every fucking time they see a decent image that's computer generated, but I call bullshit. Do you scream at the sight of
    new-brunswick-self-portrait-pencil.jpg

    Now, it's not a perfect representation, it's far from it. But it's not some special kind of offputting because it's not perfect.

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  • FeintFeint Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Flippy_D wrote: »
    You might say 'so what?', but I think that puts you in the minority. I don't care that much either, but I find it interesting to look at why people think feeling physical lust for a videogame character in particular is so much worse than other mediums.

    I made the topic because I can't alight on an answer and was keen to hear opinions.

    Because videogames as a genre are considered a lower-brow form of entertainment over, say film and definitely books.

    It appeals to a younger, distinctly male audience, and with those appeals come the developers looking to entice them further with unrealistic looking women.

    These women demean the genre further, and thus anything coming out of it has to be defended when admitted that it is liked.

    The popularity of the genre has nothing to do with nothing. The fact that there's a minority of realistic looking women in the genre has nothing to do with nothing.

    Edit: Wow MGS2, Goomba and I all said the exact same thing at the exact same time.

    Feint on
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  • WillethWilleth Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Flippy_D wrote: »
    Also the bemusement of some people in the thread is exactly what I'd like to investigate. Why indeed is it so 'sad' to find game characters physically attractive (erotic)? What's the ontology of that?

    It's mainly, I think, due to the immaturity of the medium. Games are only just becoming established as acceptable leisure activity to the majority, and in ten years I'm sure critics will look back at characters like Alyx Vance and recognise them for the push into maturity that we know right now. But up until now, there's been no reason to try and attack this kind of thing.

    Sculpture, painting, photography and film and most other forms of art that I can think of were pursuits of the craft and the message, long before they ever became commercial - some, of course, actively fight against it, and all still value meaning above profit to a certain extent. But very quickly after its inception, interactive entertainment has turned into a numbers game and a business. Of course, there are more than enough examples of artful and thought-provoking games that anyone could reel off to refute this, but for every game with the emotional depth of Shadow of the Colossus, there's been three Imagine games for DS.

    The videogame industry is just that - an industry. While the developers and publishers are still looking for a game to be viable in the market before it's created, the games that actually tackle mature and difficult themes will be kept to a minimum - not because those concepts don't have broad appeal, but because the chick with the big tits cutting bloody swathes through demons has more appeal. And so characters are thin, muscle-bound and amiable, and very rarely humanly flawed or complex.

    Elizabeta Torres in GTAIV is a good example. I find her much more interesting than a character like (for example) Rubi Malone in Wet, even though Rubi is clearly much more 'objectively' physically attractive. Perhaps it's because there aren't any characters of Elizabeta's type in games, and it's only interesting because it's different. IMO it's because there's been much more thought put into her character than the simple hooters-and-no-waist template that so many other games seem to follow.

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  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    People love to flog the Uncanny Valley every fucking time they see a decent image that's computer generated, but I call bullshit. Do you scream at the sight of
    new-brunswick-self-portrait-pencil.jpg

    Now, it's not a perfect representation, it's far from it. But it's not some special kind of offputting because it's not perfect.
    You don't really get Uncanny Valley, do you?

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  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Goomba wrote: »
    People love to flog the Uncanny Valley every fucking time they see a decent image that's computer generated, but I call bullshit. Do you scream at the sight of
    new-brunswick-self-portrait-pencil.jpg

    Now, it's not a perfect representation, it's far from it. But it's not some special kind of offputting because it's not perfect.
    You don't really get Uncanny Valley, do you?

    oh god i just limed goomba

    i feel so dirty

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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Discussing such things in the context of video games, which are in 9/10 instances advertised solely to young males, is pretty useless. We're far, far from the point of examples of art you posted in the op

    hubbahubba.jpg

    I'm going to need 5 minutes and a box of tissues.
    No not really but who the fuck gives a shit what turns some people on? Humanity is freaky kinky on a large scale, surprise surprise

    Buttcleft on
  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    See, to me that Kristen Bell compar-o-photo just shows how far we still have to go. Yes, it's orders of magnitude better than the polygonal boobies above, but that's deep in the uncanny valley there, and the final rush is uphill like whoa. The lack of shadowing around the eyes, the flat hair, the airbrush-textured forehead and cheeks ... while it seems like nitpicking, the closer you approach photorealism the more the abherrations stand out.

    It's the lips that freak me right the fuck out

    What the fuck lips

    Rent on
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    People love to flog the Uncanny Valley every fucking time they see a decent image that's computer generated, but I call bullshit. Do you scream at the sight of
    new-brunswick-self-portrait-pencil.jpg

    Now, it's not a perfect representation, it's far from it. But it's not some special kind of offputting because it's not perfect.

    That's a 2D representation of a 3D object

    In a game it's a 3D representation of a 3D object, which if it's not absolutely perfect can create a very strange sense of unease in the viewer

    Plus there's the animation, which can create a new depth in the Uncanny Valley where a thing doesn't animate quite how it should, or it's jerky, or whatever

    You can't dismiss the Uncanny Valley simply because you don't pay attention to it
    Willeth wrote:
    Elizabeta Torres in GTAIV is a good example. I find her much more interesting than a character like (for example) Rubi Malone in Wet, even though Rubi is clearly much more 'objectively' physically attractive. Perhaps it's because there aren't any characters of Elizabeta's type in games, and it's only interesting because it's different. IMO it's because there's been much more thought put into her character than the simple hooters-and-no-waist template that so many other games seem to follow.

    Elizabeta was a boring character who gave like two boring missions before she was unceremoniously killed

    I'm not spoiling that because no one who hasn't already played that game will care, because she wasn't at all interesting or well developed

    Olivaw on
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  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Goomba wrote: »
    People love to flog the Uncanny Valley every fucking time they see a decent image that's computer generated, but I call bullshit. Do you scream at the sight of
    new-brunswick-self-portrait-pencil.jpg

    Now, it's not a perfect representation, it's far from it. But it's not some special kind of offputting because it's not perfect.
    You don't really get Uncanny Valley, do you?
    The uncanny valley does not mean "imperfect representation of a human". I ask again, describe what freaks the hell out of you about every portrait ever painted.

    The uncanny valley is an overused rule of thumb that's primarily used as a catchphrase when people don't actually know what they want to say about a picture.

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  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    People love to flog the Uncanny Valley every fucking time they see a decent image that's computer generated, but I call bullshit. Do you scream at the sight of
    new-brunswick-self-portrait-pencil.jpg

    Now, it's not a perfect representation, it's far from it. But it's not some special kind of offputting because it's not perfect.
    I think the difference is that a drawing or painting goes for stylisation on purpose, whereas the Kristen Bell clone tries to be as realistic as possible. The degree to which it fails isn't intentional, and stylisation isn't the same as imperfect mimicry.

    Edit: I'd agree that the term is somewhat overused, though.

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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I also don't think Flippy took furries into account when he wrote this post

    Which is okay because no one should ever take furries into account ever

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  • WillethWilleth Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Willeth wrote:
    Elizabeta Torres in GTAIV is a good example. I find her much more interesting than a character like (for example) Rubi Malone in Wet, even though Rubi is clearly much more 'objectively' physically attractive. Perhaps it's because there aren't any characters of Elizabeta's type in games, and it's only interesting because it's different. IMO it's because there's been much more thought put into her character than the simple hooters-and-no-waist template that so many other games seem to follow.

    Elizabeta was a boring character who gave like two boring missions before she was unceremoniously killed

    I'm not spoiling that because no one who hasn't already played that game will care, because she wasn't at all interesting or well developed

    I really can't disagree more. Some of my favourite parts of TLAD were Johnny's relationship with her. Maybe it's because she was the link between her and Niko, or maybe it's because of how troubled she was and how she covered it up with her fake mirth and parties and whatever. She was a drug lord who hated what she was and what she did, and maybe that's stereotypical, but it's a lot more interesting than so many other female game characters. Part of what I'm looking forward to most in BOGT is seeing how she entwines with that scene.

    Also, she didn't die, she went on the run and was jailed, as I remember.

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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Willeth wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Willeth wrote:
    Elizabeta Torres in GTAIV is a good example. I find her much more interesting than a character like (for example) Rubi Malone in Wet, even though Rubi is clearly much more 'objectively' physically attractive. Perhaps it's because there aren't any characters of Elizabeta's type in games, and it's only interesting because it's different. IMO it's because there's been much more thought put into her character than the simple hooters-and-no-waist template that so many other games seem to follow.

    Elizabeta was a boring character who gave like two boring missions before she was unceremoniously killed

    I'm not spoiling that because no one who hasn't already played that game will care, because she wasn't at all interesting or well developed

    I really can't disagree more. Some of my favourite parts of TLAD were Johnny's relationship with her. Maybe it's because she was the link between her and Niko, or maybe it's because of how troubled she was and how she covered it up with her fake mirth and parties and whatever. She was a drug lord who hated what she was and what she did, and maybe that's stereotypical, but it's a lot more interesting than so many other female game characters. Part of what I'm looking forward to most in BOGT is seeing how she entwines with that scene.

    Also, she didn't die, she went on the run, as I remember.

    Oh, you're talking about Lost and Damned

    I haven't played that and probably never will

    All I know is I played GTA4 and she gave like two lame missions before being I'm pretty sure either killed or arrested

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  • WillethWilleth Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Willeth wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Willeth wrote:
    Elizabeta Torres in GTAIV is a good example. I find her much more interesting than a character like (for example) Rubi Malone in Wet, even though Rubi is clearly much more 'objectively' physically attractive. Perhaps it's because there aren't any characters of Elizabeta's type in games, and it's only interesting because it's different. IMO it's because there's been much more thought put into her character than the simple hooters-and-no-waist template that so many other games seem to follow.

    Elizabeta was a boring character who gave like two boring missions before she was unceremoniously killed

    I'm not spoiling that because no one who hasn't already played that game will care, because she wasn't at all interesting or well developed

    I really can't disagree more. Some of my favourite parts of TLAD were Johnny's relationship with her. Maybe it's because she was the link between her and Niko, or maybe it's because of how troubled she was and how she covered it up with her fake mirth and parties and whatever. She was a drug lord who hated what she was and what she did, and maybe that's stereotypical, but it's a lot more interesting than so many other female game characters. Part of what I'm looking forward to most in BOGT is seeing how she entwines with that scene.

    Also, she didn't die, she went on the run, as I remember.

    Oh, you're talking about Lost and Damned

    I haven't played that and probably never will

    All I know is I played GTA4 and she gave like two lame missions before being I'm pretty sure either killed or arrested

    I'm talking about both. And yeah, I just looked it up - she went on the run after
    killing Manny
    and is never shown being arrested, but was according to the police database. There was something I really enjoyed about her being a paranoid wreck by the time she runs away - you just don't see that kind of writing very often.

    Willeth on
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