Wherein Matt Bomer is devilishly handsome[White Collar] New Season started!

nerve

Xeddicus wrote: »

pyromaniac221 wrote: »

Just caught an episode of this tonight. I thought it was pretty good, although there seemed to be some backstory and plot points that I missed in early episodes. Who's this dude with the ring?

The guy who kidnapped Kate. Or so it seems. But after last episode Kate's acting way weird for being a kidnapedee.

Well, she repeated the line about wanting to go home about 3 or 4 times so that is probably a hidden message.

Alecthar

So who watched the fall finale and had their head explode?

Scalfin

Alecthar wrote: »

So who watched the fall finale and had their head explode?

There is no way Cafferty could have failed to recognize

Spoiler:

a ring if his partner was wearing it.

Alecthar

Scalfin wrote: »

Alecthar wrote: »

So who watched the fall finale and had their head explode?

There is no way Cafferty could have failed to recognize

Spoiler:

a ring if his partner was wearing it.

Spoiler:

I don't recall Peter ever wearing that ring.

Does he always wear it?

Edited for Spoilers

Scalfin

Alecthar wrote: »

Scalfin wrote: »

Alecthar wrote: »

So who watched the fall finale and had their head explode?

There is no way Cafferty could have failed to recognize

Spoiler:

a ring if his partner was wearing it.

I don't recall Peter ever wearing that ring.

Does he always wear it?

If we assume it was his hand in the video.

HamHamJ

Alecthar wrote: »

So who watched the fall finale and had their head explode?

My mind. It is fucking blown.

I have no idea what they are doing here or where they are going with this.

Spoit

In retrospect they were a bit heavy handed hinting that it was

Spoiler:

Peter

since they kept focusing on him whenever he was told to be paranoid and all. Yet I still had no idea where it came from, or where they're going with it.

Alecthar

Scalfin wrote: »

Alecthar wrote: »

Scalfin wrote: »

Alecthar wrote: »

So who watched the fall finale and had their head explode?

There is no way Cafferty could have failed to recognize

Spoiler:

a ring if his partner was wearing it.

Spoiler:

I don't recall Peter ever wearing that ring.

Does he always wear it?

If we assume it was his hand in the video.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is, how would

Spoiler:

Neil have recognized the ring, if the only time Peter was wearing it was while he was with Kate?

Alecthar

Spoit wrote: »

In retrospect they were a bit heavy handed hinting that it was

Spoiler:

Peter

since they kept focusing on him whenever he was told to be paranoid and all. Yet I still had no idea where it came from, or where they're going with it.

I guess, but at the time I just assumed it was that old TV/Movie standby that

Spoiler:

you're always supposed to suspect the good guy who's closest to you, until you actually figure out it wasn't your friend, etc. etc.

HamHamJ

Ok. Here's my crazy, absolutely baseless theory:

Spoiler:

Peter is not the man in the photo with Kate. They both have the same ring because it is a symbol of a secret society. Free Masons, Illuminati, something like that. Neal stole some painting or something which contains a hidden message or treasure map or whatever that they were supposed to be guarding. So they are trying to get it back from him using Kate. Peter has been given the job of keeping an eye on Neal not just by the FBI but also by this secret society.

If that guess turns out to even be half true, I will laugh so hard.

Alecthar

I think the most likely explanation is that

Spoiler:

Peter is undercover somehow.

Fortunately, we only have to make it till January to find out.

Scalfin

HamHamJ wrote: »

Ok. Here's my crazy, absolutely baseless theory:

Spoiler:

Peter is not the man in the photo with Kate. They both have the same ring because it is a symbol of a secret society. Free Masons, Illuminati, something like that. Neal stole some painting or something which contains a hidden message or treasure map or whatever that they were supposed to be guarding. So they are trying to get it back from him using Kate. Peter has been given the job of keeping an eye on Neal not just by the FBI but also by this secret society.

If that guess turns out to even be half true, I will laugh so hard.

What school did Peter go to? Maybe Niel has Geronimo's skull.

Lanz

HamHamJ wrote: »

Ok. Here's my crazy, absolutely baseless theory:

Spoiler:

Peter is not the man in the photo with Kate. They both have the same ring because it is a symbol of a secret society. Free Masons, Illuminati, something like that. Neal stole some painting or something which contains a hidden message or treasure map or whatever that they were supposed to be guarding. So they are trying to get it back from him using Kate. Peter has been given the job of keeping an eye on Neal not just by the FBI but also by this secret society.

If that guess turns out to even be half true, I will laugh so hard.

Spoiler:

Nicolas Cage to guest star in the winter Opener

Alecthar

Lanz wrote: »

HamHamJ wrote: »

Ok. Here's my crazy, absolutely baseless theory:

Spoiler:

Peter is not the man in the photo with Kate. They both have the same ring because it is a symbol of a secret society. Free Masons, Illuminati, something like that. Neal stole some painting or something which contains a hidden message or treasure map or whatever that they were supposed to be guarding. So they are trying to get it back from him using Kate. Peter has been given the job of keeping an eye on Neal not just by the FBI but also by this secret society.

If that guess turns out to even be half true, I will laugh so hard.

Spoiler:

Nicolas Cage to guest star in the winter Opener

That would be the easiest way I know of to ensure the show doesn't get a second season.

Spectrum

Alecthar wrote: »

Lanz wrote: »

HamHamJ wrote: »

Ok. Here's my crazy, absolutely baseless theory:

Spoiler:

Peter is not the man in the photo with Kate. They both have the same ring because it is a symbol of a secret society. Free Masons, Illuminati, something like that. Neal stole some painting or something which contains a hidden message or treasure map or whatever that they were supposed to be guarding. So they are trying to get it back from him using Kate. Peter has been given the job of keeping an eye on Neal not just by the FBI but also by this secret society.

If that guess turns out to even be half true, I will laugh so hard.

Spoiler:

Nicolas Cage to guest star in the winter Opener

That would be the easiest way I know of to ensure the show doesn't get a second season.

Spoiler:

Secretly, this is a National Treasure spinoff. :lol:

Been enjoying this series alot.

As for the finale...

Spoiler:

Not entirely unexpected. The question remains what exactly Neil stole to get this kind of attention. Well, as well as how much Kate is a willing participant, and whether this is an official FBI program or Peter doing his own thing at either his own or some other group's behest.

Xeddicus

Well, that was mostly unexpected until:

Spoiler:

As soon as Kate called again and said don't trust anyone I figured it was Peter. Just based on the most unlikely person that's been around for awhile. Surprised they revealed it so soon, though. Peter doesn't seem to be even a secret bastard, though, so Kate is probably mostly going along with him for some reason.

Good stuff.

PantsB

Doesn't it seem likely that

Spoiler:

Kate did something illegal and this is her bargaining chip? That she has to reveal Neil's stolen stuff to avoid prosecution?

Xeddicus

PantsB wrote: »

Doesn't it seem likely that

Spoiler:

Kate did something illegal and this is her bargaining chip? That she has to reveal Neil's stolen stuff to avoid prosecution?

No, it has to be more complicated/illegal than that. Otherwise there wouldn't be all this cloak and dagger shenanigans.

PantsB

Xeddicus wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Doesn't it seem likely that

Spoiler:

Kate did something illegal and this is her bargaining chip? That she has to reveal Neil's stolen stuff to avoid prosecution?

No, it has to be more complicated/illegal than that. Otherwise there wouldn't be all this cloak and dagger shenanigans.

Spoiler:

What cloak and dagger shenanigans? Kate tells the FBI she knows where it is and then that she can find it. Peter tells Bryce not to look for her. Bryce tries anyway. Kate can't go to Bryce because then he'll confront Peter and the fact that Kate knows nothing will come out, so instead she plays another "classic" - the damsel in distress. She has to get Bryce to give up his life savings without the FBI realizing what's going on.

The trail gets put in place for when he gets out and/or when she realizes she doesn't know where the stuff is.

Xeddicus

PantsB wrote: »

Xeddicus wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Doesn't it seem likely that

Spoiler:

Kate did something illegal and this is her bargaining chip? That she has to reveal Neil's stolen stuff to avoid prosecution?

No, it has to be more complicated/illegal than that. Otherwise there wouldn't be all this cloak and dagger shenanigans.

Spoiler:

What cloak and dagger shenanigans? Kate tells the FBI she knows where it is and then that she can find it. Peter tells Bryce not to look for her. Bryce tries anyway. Kate can't go to Bryce because then he'll confront Peter and the fact that Kate knows nothing will come out, so instead she plays another "classic" - the damsel in distress. She has to get Bryce to give up his life savings without the FBI realizing what's going on.

The trail gets put in place for when he gets out and/or when she realizes she doesn't know where the stuff is.

Spoiler:

Peter is being investigated. Why? Kate is acting like she's kidnapped. Why? Peter has that Evil Guy Ring. Why? All these things point to it's not being a legit operation. If it was, why doesn't Kate just go "Neal, I'm SO SCREWED! DAMSEL IN DISTRESS! TELL THE FBI EVERYTHING! PPPPPPPPPPllllllllllllleeeeease.". Instead she's running around just saying do what he wants. There's the clues she's leaving. Why not just tell Neal where she is? Whatever Neal stole the government would either black ops his ass or do it by the book, not this in between stuff.

PantsB

Xeddicus wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Xeddicus wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Doesn't it seem likely that

Spoiler:

Kate did something illegal and this is her bargaining chip? That she has to reveal Neil's stolen stuff to avoid prosecution?

No, it has to be more complicated/illegal than that. Otherwise there wouldn't be all this cloak and dagger shenanigans.

Spoiler:

What cloak and dagger shenanigans? Kate tells the FBI she knows where it is and then that she can find it. Peter tells Bryce not to look for her. Bryce tries anyway. Kate can't go to Bryce because then he'll confront Peter and the fact that Kate knows nothing will come out, so instead she plays another "classic" - the damsel in distress. She has to get Bryce to give up his life savings without the FBI realizing what's going on.

The trail gets put in place for when he gets out and/or when she realizes she doesn't know where the stuff is.

Spoiler:

Peter is being investigated. Why? Kate is acting like she's kidnapped. Why? Peter has that Evil Guy Ring. Why? All these things point to it's not being a legit operation. If it was, why doesn't Kate just go "Neal, I'm SO SCREWED! DAMSEL IN DISTRESS! TELL THE FBI EVERYTHING! PPPPPPPPPPllllllllllllleeeeease.". Instead she's running around just saying do what he wants. There's the clues she's leaving. Why not just tell Neal where she is? Whatever Neal stole the government would either black ops his ass or do it by the book, not this in between stuff.

Spoiler:

Peter is being investigated is easy. Either he assumes Peter is dirty and going after the stuff himself, assumes Peter is dirty and working with Neil, assumes Neil will inevitably turn on Peter or is dirty and wants the stuff himself that Neil stole. Kate is acting like she's kidnapped but is clearly walking around free and avoiding FBI attention. The reason she'd be doing this is if she wants the FBI to think she's just about to find all of the things Neil stole to turn over to the FBI. But if Neil finds her not only is it possible he'll tell Peter she's clueless but he'll likely be pissed that she turned on him.

The "we have to talk" at the end could easily be "you don't really know where the stuff is hidden"

Spectrum

PantsB wrote: »

Xeddicus wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Xeddicus wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Doesn't it seem likely that

Spoiler:

Kate did something illegal and this is her bargaining chip? That she has to reveal Neil's stolen stuff to avoid prosecution?

No, it has to be more complicated/illegal than that. Otherwise there wouldn't be all this cloak and dagger shenanigans.

Spoiler:

What cloak and dagger shenanigans? Kate tells the FBI she knows where it is and then that she can find it. Peter tells Bryce not to look for her. Bryce tries anyway. Kate can't go to Bryce because then he'll confront Peter and the fact that Kate knows nothing will come out, so instead she plays another "classic" - the damsel in distress. She has to get Bryce to give up his life savings without the FBI realizing what's going on.

The trail gets put in place for when he gets out and/or when she realizes she doesn't know where the stuff is.

Spoiler:

Peter is being investigated. Why? Kate is acting like she's kidnapped. Why? Peter has that Evil Guy Ring. Why? All these things point to it's not being a legit operation. If it was, why doesn't Kate just go "Neal, I'm SO SCREWED! DAMSEL IN DISTRESS! TELL THE FBI EVERYTHING! PPPPPPPPPPllllllllllllleeeeease.". Instead she's running around just saying do what he wants. There's the clues she's leaving. Why not just tell Neal where she is? Whatever Neal stole the government would either black ops his ass or do it by the book, not this in between stuff.

Spoiler:

Peter is being investigated is easy. Either he assumes Peter is dirty and going after the stuff himself, assumes Peter is dirty and working with Neil, assumes Neil will inevitably turn on Peter or is dirty and wants the stuff himself that Neil stole. Kate is acting like she's kidnapped but is clearly walking around free and avoiding FBI attention. The reason she'd be doing this is if she wants the FBI to think she's just about to find all of the things Neil stole to turn over to the FBI. But if Neil finds her not only is it possible he'll tell Peter she's clueless but he'll likely be pissed that she turned on him.

The "we have to talk" at the end could easily be "you don't really know where the stuff is hidden"

Spoiler:

A much simpler interpretation is that Peter and whoever he is representing already KNOWS Kate doesn't know where the stuff is but that Neil does. So they're trying to use Kate as a lever on Neil secretly because otherwise he won't crack.

Lanz

PantsB wrote: »

Xeddicus wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Xeddicus wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Doesn't it seem likely that

Spoiler:

Kate did something illegal and this is her bargaining chip? That she has to reveal Neil's stolen stuff to avoid prosecution?

No, it has to be more complicated/illegal than that. Otherwise there wouldn't be all this cloak and dagger shenanigans.

Spoiler:

What cloak and dagger shenanigans? Kate tells the FBI she knows where it is and then that she can find it. Peter tells Bryce not to look for her. Bryce tries anyway. Kate can't go to Bryce because then he'll confront Peter and the fact that Kate knows nothing will come out, so instead she plays another "classic" - the damsel in distress. She has to get Bryce to give up his life savings without the FBI realizing what's going on.

The trail gets put in place for when he gets out and/or when she realizes she doesn't know where the stuff is.

Spoiler:

Peter is being investigated. Why? Kate is acting like she's kidnapped. Why? Peter has that Evil Guy Ring. Why? All these things point to it's not being a legit operation. If it was, why doesn't Kate just go "Neal, I'm SO SCREWED! DAMSEL IN DISTRESS! TELL THE FBI EVERYTHING! PPPPPPPPPPllllllllllllleeeeease.". Instead she's running around just saying do what he wants. There's the clues she's leaving. Why not just tell Neal where she is? Whatever Neal stole the government would either black ops his ass or do it by the book, not this in between stuff.

Spoiler:

Peter is being investigated is easy. Either he assumes Peter is dirty and going after the stuff himself, assumes Peter is dirty and working with Neil, assumes Neil will inevitably turn on Peter or is dirty and wants the stuff himself that Neil stole. Kate is acting like she's kidnapped but is clearly walking around free and avoiding FBI attention. The reason she'd be doing this is if she wants the FBI to think she's just about to find all of the things Neil stole to turn over to the FBI. But if Neil finds her not only is it possible he'll tell Peter she's clueless but he'll likely be pissed that she turned on him.

The "we have to talk" at the end could easily be "you don't really know where the stuff is hidden"

But it wasn't just

Spoiler:

"we have to talk"

it was "we have to talk about Neal"

Backstop

Can we be done with spoiler tags, it's been a few days.

My theory about the surprise ending is that this is just the first layer of the onion. Next season we'll find out that wasn't really who kidnapped Kate, it was the big boss. And the next seaons we'll get Kate back but that won;t solve Neal's problem.

This show is Burn Notice Alternate, I think they will maintain the pattern. Client/Case of the week, bookended by long arc that can easily wrap up if the show is non-renewed or has a new reveal in the last episode if the show is picked up.

PantsB

In order for Peter to be a kidnapper holding Kate in fear of her life, not only do we have to take his interactions at work, at home, alone and with Neal as an elaborate cover up. Additionally we have to believe that Kate has been kidnapped or the like, but allowed to walk completely free. She doesn't run so we have to believe that Peter has some way to keep her from running. So the stick he has is not the FBI then we have to also invent some criminal organization that has been hidden so far. If it is the FBI, a simpler explanation is that FBI guy is acting as FBI guy and not super secret baddie and the criminal damsel in distress con-woman is the one deceiving in order to escape punishment for crimes.

Xeddicus

If FBI Guy was just acting like FBI guy he wouldn't be under investigation. Peter isn't EVIL, but he's also not doing a 'flip an asset' by the books, either.

PantsB

Xeddicus wrote: »

If FBI Guy was just acting like FBI guy he wouldn't be under investigation. Peter isn't EVIL, but he's also not doing a 'flip an asset' by the books, either.

Unless the investigating guy is the one that is off, which according to Neal and Mozzie he is.

Xeddicus

Yeah, and according to Neal and Mozzie he has Kate too.

It was all a red herring for the ending.

gollygee

TWO WEEKS OUT.

And as for my theory... I agree that there is no way Peter is inherently "evil." I think he has Kate AND Neal's best interest at heart and somehow is doing this for their own good.

Hurry up 1/19. That's all.

JonBob

Tomorrow! Woohoo!

On rewatching the pilot, I'm not sure that it is logistically possible for Peter to have been in that photo; it was taken in California, and I believe the implication is that it was taken while Neal and Peter were working together. Or did I mishear?

gollygee

Hmmm... I'm not sure. Are you talking about the initial picture at the ATM with the "ring"? And are we assuming that is Peter anyway?

Regardless, TONIGHT IS THE NIGHT!! I cannot wait to start getting some answers.

Elki

Speculation/gut feeling:

Spoiler:

It's the wife.

I have nothing beyond that.

Elki

heh, that didn't last long.

Lanz

sooooooo

Spoiler:

Peter's not the guy who has Kate, but he did find her on his own and talked with her about something?

Khavall

Lanz wrote: »

sooooooo

Spoiler:

Peter's not the guy who has Kate, but he did find her on his own and talked with her about something?

Eh.

Spoiler:

Everything in that scene between Peter and Kate was told by Peter. Now he's super-eager to get his hands on the music box that Kate, according to him, said she wanted for Fowler. All because, according to him, he's a huge fan of Niel and is just looking out for him?


It's like the Kreia thing in KOTOR2. She tells you she won't lie to you, while lying to your face.

I don't trust Peter yet, just because he told a story about his meeting with Kate

JonBob

I'm really surprised at how completely they dealt with that cliffhanger. I thought they'd string it out for most of the rest of the season.

Lanz

Khavall wrote: »

Lanz wrote: »

sooooooo

Spoiler:

Peter's not the guy who has Kate, but he did find her on his own and talked with her about something?

Eh.

Spoiler:

Everything in that scene between Peter and Kate was told by Peter. Now he's super-eager to get his hands on the music box that Kate, according to him, said she wanted for Fowler. All because, according to him, he's a huge fan of Niel and is just looking out for him?


It's like the Kreia thing in KOTOR2. She tells you she won't lie to you, while lying to your face.

I don't trust Peter yet, just because he told a story about his meeting with Kate

Yeah but:

Spoiler:

It seems odd to use the flashback for a lie.

Also, we're dealing with Fowler a bit next week too, it seems

gollygee

JonBob wrote: »

I'm really surprised at how completely they dealt with that cliffhanger. I thought they'd string it out for most of the rest of the season.

Are we sure it's all quite that simple?

Spoiler:

I think there is definitely more for us to find out about Kate.

My big question:

Spoiler:

What is in the music box that is so important?

Spectrum

Lanz wrote: »

Khavall wrote: »

Lanz wrote: »

sooooooo

Spoiler:

Peter's not the guy who has Kate, but he did find her on his own and talked with her about something?

Eh.

Spoiler:

Everything in that scene between Peter and Kate was told by Peter. Now he's super-eager to get his hands on the music box that Kate, according to him, said she wanted for Fowler. All because, according to him, he's a huge fan of Niel and is just looking out for him?


It's like the Kreia thing in KOTOR2. She tells you she won't lie to you, while lying to your face.

I don't trust Peter yet, just because he told a story about his meeting with Kate

Yeah but:

Spoiler:

It seems odd to use the flashback for a lie.

Also, we're dealing with Fowler a bit next week too, it seems

Spoiler:

I'm not sure if it was intentional, but the meeting as portrayed in the flashback was veeeeeery awkward with what Peter was saying. As in it wasn't something he'd usually say/DID SAY, so he was having to make some of it up. As such, I'm convinced that meeting DID NOT happen 100% like that.

And yeah, music box should prove interesting. I loved the little bit at the end between Neil and Mozzie.

HamHamJ

This whole thing seems weird, and I'm not sure where they are going with it. I'm not sure they know where they are going with it.