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Finding full-time work
guar
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Me again.
I was looking through one of the local community college course catalogs, and I came across this:
Ok, $1500 for a 5-week course is a bit much, but I'm looking at this as a stepping stone to where I want to be. I've settled on the idea that job sites are a waste of my time and I've yet to hear back from any of the staffing companies I contacted weeks ago. Those of you who followed my last thread know that my resume is rather pitiful; I lack experience in general and the most I have is a degree, which isn't much considering all the people I'm competing with. But I'm not here looking for reassurance in my decision. Rather, I'm looking for some advice as to what I can do in the meantime.
For those of you who don't know, currently I have a part-time job. As with probably most part-time jobs, the pay is terrible, the hours are largely inconsistent (4-hour work week, go!), and I surprise myself by how much I find I hate going to work with each passing day. I found a blog completely by random detailing how much this woman hated her job. In it she said the very second her paid vacation became available, she took it. Without having any plans to go anywhere; just sitting at home counting the days until she had to be back at work. Then the hours, minutes, and seconds. Up until she was on her way back to work the following week, in her car, about halfway between work and home, when she decided she couldn't go back. And, she said, it was the best decision she'd ever made. Now the job I have isn't that bad, but it's left me miserable, and save for doing what that woman did, I need to get out. I need consistency. I would appreciate some level of responsibility. I need to be making more than $8/hour. More importantly, I need a job where I don't feel like shit going in and even worse coming out.
Originally, I had decided on finding another part-time job and delegating my current job to weekends only. That way, at the very least, I would avoid having to work with the one person who gives me the most grief. But then a few things happened today that I feel have made me change my mind:
I was looking through one of the local community college course catalogs, and I came across this:
Ok, $1500 for a 5-week course is a bit much, but I'm looking at this as a stepping stone to where I want to be. I've settled on the idea that job sites are a waste of my time and I've yet to hear back from any of the staffing companies I contacted weeks ago. Those of you who followed my last thread know that my resume is rather pitiful; I lack experience in general and the most I have is a degree, which isn't much considering all the people I'm competing with. But I'm not here looking for reassurance in my decision. Rather, I'm looking for some advice as to what I can do in the meantime.
For those of you who don't know, currently I have a part-time job. As with probably most part-time jobs, the pay is terrible, the hours are largely inconsistent (4-hour work week, go!), and I surprise myself by how much I find I hate going to work with each passing day. I found a blog completely by random detailing how much this woman hated her job. In it she said the very second her paid vacation became available, she took it. Without having any plans to go anywhere; just sitting at home counting the days until she had to be back at work. Then the hours, minutes, and seconds. Up until she was on her way back to work the following week, in her car, about halfway between work and home, when she decided she couldn't go back. And, she said, it was the best decision she'd ever made. Now the job I have isn't that bad, but it's left me miserable, and save for doing what that woman did, I need to get out. I need consistency. I would appreciate some level of responsibility. I need to be making more than $8/hour. More importantly, I need a job where I don't feel like shit going in and even worse coming out.
Originally, I had decided on finding another part-time job and delegating my current job to weekends only. That way, at the very least, I would avoid having to work with the one person who gives me the most grief. But then a few things happened today that I feel have made me change my mind:
- They've cut back hours again. Not just mine apparently, but the majority of the cashiers who work regular hours. This could be temporary, but in general, the hours are still pretty terrible.
- The assistant manager, who made work somewhat tolerable, transferred to a different store.
guar on
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I imagine that your degree carries FAR more weight than an A+ certification ever would.
They said it was basically common sense. Also very outdated, as in the hardest questions were about obsolete technology such as the old parallel ports and such.
If the test is cheap enough, I would take it no matter your level of expertise. See how you do. If you fail, study up on what stumped you using internet resources and free online textbooks, and then take it again.
If you want to be a little more prepared than that and pass the first time, go somewhere like your local Best Buy or Futureshop and ask one of the technicians to describe the test to you in as much detail as they can remember. People there are paid to be friendly and answer questions. Take that information and brush up on your skills.
Also, if you or someone you know has an old computer lying around, play around with it. Pull it apart and put it back together. Learn what all the parts are. Try not to electrocute yourself.
For getting work, you can either go the guru.com route, or go around to various businesses talking to them about if they were interesting in hiring you for a website (make sure you can do this legally. IE "No soliciting signs = bad" and it might be against your state's law). Keep referring to yourself as a web developer to your friends and you'll slowly get some referrals.
I could go into this option in more detail, but there are other freelancers on this forum who can give better advice if you're interested in going this route.
I got my A+ in summer 2001. There were questions about Windows 95 on it. Lots of them.
The certification itself did absolutely nothing for me because I didn't have any actual experience with computers; I studied the book and took the test.
IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
I wouldn't even bother with it anyways. If a degree isn't getting you a job, the A+ wouldn't have helped.
I either never hear back or get turned down. I've lowered my sights even further and applied to whatever data entry jobs I could find, but it's the same thing. That isn't even the point of this thread. In fact, I should just edit that out of the OP because it's distracting from what I came here to ask.
If you see these two together, an A+ cert isn't really required. The guy who wrote the job req has no clue.
What...the...fuck?
Dude, if you have a 4 year BS in Comp Sci, you're overqualified for those listings. RAISE your sights a little higher.
feet in some doors...
foot in some doors.
I recently applied for a data entry job. They had 60 applicants for 3 positions. They took in 6 for interviews. Out of the 54 who weren't called in, over half were over-qualified and they couldn't see them staying in the position. Over-qualified, while not as bad as under-qualified, is still a huge red flag for most people hiring. They can't see you staying in the position you applied for, which means they have to recruit, train and integrate someone new once you inevitably leave.
Hiring people sucks. Its better to find a "good fit" than the most awesome guy in the pile that will bail as soon as he gets a much better offer.
Anyway, I'm looking at a different place now for the certification preparation. I spoke with my dad over the weekend, and I guess he's willing to front the cost if it will land me a job. I'd really like to pay my own way at this point, considering the guy payed for my entire college education, but I guess the best I can do at the moment is pay him back afterwords.
Hi. The job market for data-anything is shit. Utter, utter shit. There are less shitty places, like DC, but it's still terrible all over. It took me 10 months to find a new job, I'm ridiculously qualified with tons of EXP, I was looking all over the country (alaska to flordia), and 95% of the resumes I sent out got no response.
Chin up and all that shit.
Not so much nowadays. There's lots of people looking for _anything_. Make sure that doesn't come across from you.
Volunteer at a local non-profit. They mostly have shit computers and simple stuff like virus scans and updates can make a world of difference. Plus, you know, side quest EXP.
Get the A+. Fuck the haters, it's a useful tool to get an interview (that's all certs are - tools to get interviews, never forget that). Can you read a book and learn? I'd try that first. for $50 you could buy a good book and take the practice tests. See how you do.
Learn LAMP. Learn the hell out of it. If you like the M, congrats, you might be a DBA. They have (IMO) a soul-sucking job - but it pays well if you can look at tables and stuff all day.
Consider your degree to be AT LEAST 2-3 years experience when applying for jobs. Don't pass on a job because you don't feel qualified.
First of all, if you want a job doing some database work, web development (especially freelance) does give you some opportunity to apply this knowledge. Not to mention $40k+ a year > $15 hr hell desk position (assuming you can get an inhouse job). It's not unheard of to go from development to a sys admin/support role down the road.
As for certification courses or any job skills, I don't see that much reason to pay for any more courses unless it's a direct requirement for your certification. Google is your friend.
Edit: Everything pirate Jon said, especially this
Might also want to look into MS certs or atleast get some .NET knowledge.
THIS. I did co-op as well but at the very least it's much better than the HS grad.
EVERY job, you'll have to have some sort of learning curve, just to get a feel on how the business actually runs. It's how quick you can pick it up is the key. By going to University, you have shown you can pick up 30+ different ideas in several months.
Edit: Also, staffing companies and positions you apply for, you have to follow up. Not obsessively to the point of annoyance, but dropping a resume and never calling them again is not a good way to get response from a potential employer.
I disagree strongly with those people. Help Desk jobs can be pretty menial and rarely have anything to do with databases or administration unless you're the dude that sets permissions.
SQL monkey will get you closer to a DBA position than that. think Reporting analyst, operations analyst, sql analyst, pretty much most titles that have ('%anal%') in the character string.
Right, I think you mentioned this before. I've kept an eye out for analyst jobs, but they don't pop up as often as help desk stuff.
Because any manager worth half a shit will recruit an internal person to that position from the level 1/2 help desk positions. but Mr. Baser has a point if you're applying to large companies, then that's what you look for. Mid-sized and smaller, typically the SQL monkey is the DBA.
And if that's (DBA) your goal don't be afraid to download the different platforms and try them out. Knowing how to configure an access DB to talk to an oracle or mysql backend will come across when you do get an interview.
Yeah, I guess this is a matter of scale then. I've only done this at what I'd consider fairly large non-retail companies.
Bigger places are much more specialized and there's typically limited advancement across teams (helpdesk to data systems or infosec). Some people thrive in that sort of environment, learning every in and out of a small specific area - EDI for example, or groupwise to exchange conversions. others like the change of smaller environments; always new stuff (today routers, tomorrow Email servers) but you won't get the depth of specialization.
So that's also something to consider when searching for IT jobs.
Edit: I just realized something that a new-to-tech person may not know. The list of qualifications for any job listing is a wish list, a best-case fantasy. 5 years experience with software that hasn't been released yet kind of thing. There's no way in hell one person can know all the technologies listed at an expert level. Just can't happen, so don't fret too much about it.
Also, any person coming through the door will have 3-6-9 month period of getting to know the environment. the break in period. Coming up to speed. Trial. Whatever. It's not enough to understand the software, you have to understand how and why it's being used. Example: windows XP. Everyone understands the interface and most of the feature set, but not everyone knows about group policy, and no one outside the org knows which sub-sets of group policy we use and why.
I'm going to do you the biggest favor you've recieved this year and I'm going to tell you what this actually means.
What that job description means is as long as you "know computers" and the hiring manager likes the look of you, you're hired.
The #1 most important thing about applying for and getting jobs at the level you are looking at is the following. I'm building up to it because so many people just dont fucking listen when I tell them this. I don't know why, it makes too much sense when you're on the other side of it.
FIND THE PHONE NUMBER OF THE HIRING MANAGER AND CALL THEM. CALL THEM EVERY DAY UNTIL THEY TELL YOU THE POSITION HAS BEEN FILLED. ASK WHEN YOU CAN COME IN TO INTERVIEW (even if you haven't sent your resume - they wont care, or they will tell you "I need a resume first").
Hiring managers for jobs like this are lazy, they will not comb through resumes comparing, agonizing etc. When they have people calling their ass up every day saying "hey im interested in the job when are interviews being held" it relieves them from having to sit down and do work. I cant tell you how many jobs people get hired in with the manager barely looking at resumes if at all, references are a joke. The biggest thing you need to worry about is if you have an arrest record, you'd better be prepared to explain it away.
Make a list, no really, get out the pad of paper you never use and make a list of including *hiring managers name * number * job place/info(in case you forget which is which) * if you've called today/left message/where you are in the 1 step process of getting an interview.
Don't try to do that shit on the computer in excel, you'll get distracted by the internet/solitare/pedo bear. Besides you dont even know how to use excel. Making lists on a pad of paper will take a little thought on how to lay out the information, you'll probably scrap it half way through and remake it, then after spending all that time sitting down staring at that info, you'll be more likely to use it.
A university degree is a powerful tool for getting yourself in the door - where did you graduate from and what was your Major GPA?
This is pretty much spot on.
Just obey the big scary words.
1) Do NOT take that class. $1500 for that is crazy. A $30-$50 book and a few hours of reading and you'll be set.
2) Aim higher with your work. The stuff you are looking at won't decrease your misery for long. It's rarely more than customer service - be nice and friendly to the moron, reset their password, have them reboot. If you're really lucky, there's a few settings to tweak. Then if it's not fixed, you send someone else out to do the hands on work. If you can get hands on support work, that's a little better. I actually enjoyed that when I did it, but it's no career for most of us. Some people love it and do it forever, though.
Now for the new stuff:
Increase your fucking confidence! Seriously, don't aim for something that only has work you're comfortable with. Try to get a job where you will learn and expand your skills. I'm now 29, a college drop out, and Director of IT for North America (which sounds more prestigious than it really is at this company) for a small international corporation. I lead design and development of apps, I make recommendations on purchases that cost 10s if not 100s of thousands of dollars. I didn't get here by just sticking with what I already knew. I always try to get a job where I do not know it all already. Yep, you'll fuck up. Sometimes it's really embarrassing. So what, you learned something. I've taken down the lithography section of an IC fab before due to a lack of error checking in UI code. I've crippled live databases powering customer facing apps that provide content to several major mobile phone carriers with bad SQL while learning DB stuff as I went along. Fuck it, it happens. As long you have a good track record with the company overall, everyone understands that people screw up.
I'm not saying lie, intentionally get in way over your head, etc. Just don't be afraid to do something new, take risks, etc. The people you work with will quickly learn what your capabilities are and give you appropriate work and determine what they can risk having you fuck up when pushing you into something new.
If you're somewhere near Richmond, Va send me a PM, too. We'll be hiring an entry to mid level front end web dev/software tester/tier 3 support type person (or people) soon, I think.
I've made my own share of stupid mistakes too, everyone does! This is a bit of side advice, but when that happens to you (and it will), own up to it - nothing aggravates others (and your superiors) then passing blame.
If anyone needs me, I'll be making notes/shitting myself under the 500-foot-tall letters.
The other certification program I mentioned won't be happening. Had an on-site consultation with a guy in admissions and the general feeling I got was that they were geared more towards getting you certified than teaching you the material. If that makes sense. My dad mentioned he had a computer I could mess around with, so I may go the DIY route.
Incidently, someone my dad knows said he knows someone looking to hire 11 people for IT positions at Lowes. I don't know the specifics, but I forwarded my resume with my regards. I believe I mentioned in one of my previous threads that I live literally within walking distance of their corporate HQ. So, I guess I'll have to see what comes of that.