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Let's talk about rape culture.

HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
edited October 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
First, a news item:
CNN wrote:

Police: Gang rape outside school dance lasted over two hours

A California high school student who police said was gang raped in a two-and-a-half-hour assault outside a homecoming dance remained hospitalized in stable condition Monday, two days after she was flown from the attack scene in critical condition.

As of late Monday, two suspects had been arrested in the case and a third was being questioned.

"There is one individual in custody who has made some spontaneous statements that have led me to believe that he is culpable for what happened," Richmond police Lt. Johan Simon said.

Nineteen-year-old Manuel Ortega, described as a former student at the school, was arrested soon after he fled the scene and will face charges of rape, robbery and kidnapping, police said.

A 15-year-old was later arrested and charged with one count of felony sexual assault. A third teenager was being interviewed, according to Lt. Mark Gagan of the police department in Richmond, California.

"Based on witness statements and suspect statements, and also physical evidence, we know that she was raped by at least four suspects committing multiple sex acts," Gagan said.

Investigators said as many as 15 people, all males, stood around watching the assault, but did not call police or help the victim, a 15-year-old student at Richmond High School in suburban San Francisco.

"As people announced over time that this was going on, more people came to see, and some actually participated," Gagan said.


Authorities had interviewed the victim, and the search for other attackers and bystanders who watched and did not report the rape was in "full-court press," according to Gagan.

"We have checked Facebook and YouTube to try to find any revealing evidence," he said. "We're looking in particular to see if anyone posted any video of the incident."

Several other individuals were detained at the scene but not arrested, Simon said.

The attack occurred on school grounds as the annual homecoming dance was under way inside the school Saturday night, authorities said.

The victim was found unconscious and "brutally assaulted" under a bench shortly before midnight Saturday, after police received a call from someone in the area who had overheard people at the assault scene "reminiscing about the incident," Gagan said.

"She ended up with those guys under her own will because she knew one of the boys who had gone to the high school before," Gagan said. "Right now, we're looking at toxicology reports to determine her blood-alcohol content and to determine if she was drugged."

According to authorities, the victim was flown to an area hospital in critical condition. She was in stable condition Monday, police said.

"This just gets worse and worse the more you dig into it," Gagan said. "It was like a horror movie after looking at the evidence. I can't believe not one person felt compelled to help her."

Link

Now we shall have a definition of terms:
Wikipedia wrote:
Rape culture is a term used within women's studies and feminism, describing a culture in which rape and other sexual violence (usually against women) are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media condone, normalize, excuse, or encourage sexualized violence.

So what is it, exactly, that gives four teenaged boys the idea that they have title to a woman's body? And what is it, exactly, that makes a group of 15 boys believe that witnessing a brutal gang rape is not something that merits reporting to the police? And what is it that makes us think her blood-alcohol level is relevant in any way?

Up to a point, you can explain away crimes by abhorring the personal depravity of the perpetrators. But where is the treshhold where we have to wonder if there is something toxic in the culture? Are all 19 of these boys -- the four rapists and the fifteen witnesses -- all conscienceless psychopaths?

It is not just this incident. The arrest of Roman Polanski pulled thousands of rape apologists out of the woodwork. And let's not forget those enlightened Republican Senators who decided that it's OK for companies with military contracts to rape their employees and hide the evidence. (link)

Somewhere around 70-90% of rapes are believed to go unreported, according to the University of Surrey, and 94% of reported cases fail to end in conviction. (link). To some extent, the low conviction rate can be attributed to the nature of the crime: in a system where the accused is considred innocent until proven guilty, and the evidence for a crime being committed often comes down to the word of the alleged victim against the word of the alleged rapist, rape can be a difficult charge to prove. Rape can look like consensual sex, and surely if murder looked like a handshake it'd have a lower conviction rate. But ninety-four percent? Surely something fishy is going on here.


So tell me, PA--do we live in a rape culture?

Hachface on
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Posts

  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    And what is it that makes us think her blood-alcohol level is relevant in any way?

    This is perhaps the only question with a simple answer. In California, if the victim of a sexual assault is under the influence of drugs or alcohol, the prosecutor can stack an additional charge on the suspects.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Feral wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    And what is it that makes us think her blood-alcohol level is relevant in any way?

    This is perhaps the only question with a simple answer. In California, if the victim of a sexual assault is under the influence of drugs or alcohol, the prosecutor can stack an additional charge on the suspects.

    Well, the more you know!

  • HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Mainstream media, while a large enough mixing bowl to constantly contradict itself, often identifies specific traits as "male" and "female". "Female" traits have a habit of involving some form of implied eroticism in one way or another (See, alcohol advertisements, the feminine gaze, etc).

    That said, we clearly do not live in a "rape culture". Sexual abuse is widely condemned, both in and out of mainstream media. If weren't going to make generalities (which we probably shouldn't anyway), I'd say it's far more accurate to say we live in a chauvinistic society. But the great thing about our "culture" is that it's very different depending on what community you're in.

    TiSBcast.com - Home of This is Serious Business, a weekly roundtable podcast involving media, beer, and general merriment.
  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2009
    We don't live in a "rape culture", but many live in a highly sexualized one.

    But really, I think what those kids did was terrible and is a result from the fairly selfish attitude about sex that many media outlets and the internet have kinda fostered.

    QlBGc.jpg
  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Sheep wrote: »
    We don't live in a "rape culture", but many live in a highly sexualized one.

    But really, I think what those kids did was terrible and is a result from the fairly selfish attitude about sex that many media outlets and the internet have kinda fostered.

    The bolded part--how is that not rape culture?

  • saint2esaint2e Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I know I'm turning into a crufty adult when my initial thought after reading this disgusting article is the lyrics to the song "Hotel Room Service" that was playing on the radio in my car on the way into work this morning. At 8:30am. Followed by "Sexy Bitch" or "Sexy Chick" David Guetta. I was kinda surprised those lyrics were playing in the morning. Look 'em up if you're not familiar. These are top 10 songs.

    Basically, there is nothing left to the imagination anymore, and I'm throwing my opinion in with the "highly sexualized society" and think this is just one of the nasty by-products of such.

    banner_160x60_01.gif
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I would assume the rape culture concept comes from how our culture looks at sexuality. Romantic, tender notions of sexuality are not especially popularized in things aimed at men, and things aimed at women are often rather brutal as well.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    saint2e wrote: »
    Basically, there is nothing left to the imagination anymore, and I'm throwing my opinion in with the "highly sexualized society" and think this is just one of the nasty by-products of such.

    Why is it that a "highly sexualized society" necessarily means a society that encourages rape?

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    It's not that the culture is sexualized, it's that it treats sex as conquest more than a loving sharing of emotions mixed with pleasure.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • nosnibornosnibor Registered User
    edited October 2009
    Another bit of relevance to the blood alchohol content is that if the victim is impaired, it makes it that much more difficult for one of those little fuckwads to claim it was consensual.

    When you're a spy, it's a good idea to give away your trade secrets in a voiceover on a TV show.
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Though we certainly live in an overly sexualized society where sex is misportrayed and devalued, we don't live in a "rape culture". Using phrases like that is sensationalism, and actually takes seriousness away from what is a real problem.

    Rape and sexual assault are still thankfully condemned by our culture. It's more a mix of poorly educated individuals and shameless unrealistic marketing colliding. You still have to be a fucking idiot, incredibly warped, or both, to think rape is acceptable. No intelligent, stable person is going to be led to rape someone by our culture.

  • saint2esaint2e Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    saint2e wrote: »
    Basically, there is nothing left to the imagination anymore, and I'm throwing my opinion in with the "highly sexualized society" and think this is just one of the nasty by-products of such.

    Why is it that a "highly sexualized society" necessarily means a society that encourages rape?

    I suppose that depends on your use of the word "encourage". I mean, mainstream media doesn't encourage having some with someone forcefully, but it encourages have sex pretty well all the freakin' time. And as sexual activities are becoming less taboo, the need to branch out into more "nasty" stuff comes in, as going against a taboo is often part of the excitement.

    I wouldn't say it encourages rape, but increased rape crimes is a logical conclusion if you agree with what I've said above.

    banner_160x60_01.gif
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I think the bigger issue is sex-as-status, and sex-as-power.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Though we certainly live in an overly sexualized society where sex is misportrayed and devalued, we don't live in a "rape culture". Using phrases like that is sensationalism, and actually takes seriousness away from what is a real problem.

    If sexual assault isn't the "real problem," than what is?

  • HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    saint2e wrote: »
    Basically, there is nothing left to the imagination anymore, and I'm throwing my opinion in with the "highly sexualized society" and think this is just one of the nasty by-products of such.

    Why is it that a "highly sexualized society" necessarily means a society that encourages rape?

    It doesn't.

    Sex and the City is a highly sexualized show. It does not encourage rape or sexual violence. Likewise with many romantic comedies, even those targeted at a young male demographic (see: Judd Apatow stuff). The end goal for characters is almost always some form of legitimate romance, or the discovery of such. This sort of media is generally highly sexualized, yet doesn't ultimately denote sexual violence/exploitation as desirable outcome.

    TiSBcast.com - Home of This is Serious Business, a weekly roundtable podcast involving media, beer, and general merriment.
  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Heartlash wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    saint2e wrote: »
    Basically, there is nothing left to the imagination anymore, and I'm throwing my opinion in with the "highly sexualized society" and think this is just one of the nasty by-products of such.

    Why is it that a "highly sexualized society" necessarily means a society that encourages rape?

    It doesn't.

    Sex and the City is a highly sexualized show. It does not encourage rape or sexual violence. Likewise with many romantic comedies, even those targeted at a young male demographic (see: Judd Apatow stuff). The end goal for characters is almost always some form of legitimate romance, or the discovery of such. This sort of media is generally highly sexualized, yet doesn't ultimately denote sexual violence/exploitation as desirable outcome.

    Didn't Judd Apatow play a date rape off for laughs?

  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Though we certainly live in an overly sexualized society where sex is misportrayed and devalued, we don't live in a "rape culture". Using phrases like that is sensationalism, and actually takes seriousness away from what is a real problem.

    If sexual assault isn't the "real problem," than what is?

    When did I say that? Oh wait, I didn't. I'm saying throwing around terms like "rape culture" is sensationalist and makes people take the problem of our overly sexualized society less seriously.
    Sexual assault is a real problem, but isn't actively encouraged by our culture.

  • HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Though we certainly live in an overly sexualized society where sex is misportrayed and devalued, we don't live in a "rape culture". Using phrases like that is sensationalism, and actually takes seriousness away from what is a real problem.

    If sexual assault isn't the "real problem," than what is?

    I'm pretty sure Tubular thinks sexual assault is a real problem...

    TiSBcast.com - Home of This is Serious Business, a weekly roundtable podcast involving media, beer, and general merriment.
  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Though we certainly live in an overly sexualized society where sex is misportrayed and devalued, we don't live in a "rape culture". Using phrases like that is sensationalism, and actually takes seriousness away from what is a real problem.

    If sexual assault isn't the "real problem," than what is?

    When did I say that? Oh wait, I didn't. I'm saying throwing around terms like "rape culture" is sensationalist and makes people take the problem of our overly sexualized society less seriously.
    Sexual assault is a real problem, but isn't actively encouraged by our culture.

    All right. Well. If rape is so deeply condemned by our society, then why are rapes underreported, and why is the conviction rate for rape charges so low?

  • CervetusCervetus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    saint2e wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    saint2e wrote: »
    Basically, there is nothing left to the imagination anymore, and I'm throwing my opinion in with the "highly sexualized society" and think this is just one of the nasty by-products of such.

    Why is it that a "highly sexualized society" necessarily means a society that encourages rape?

    I suppose that depends on your use of the word "encourage". I mean, mainstream media doesn't encourage having some with someone forcefully, but it encourages have sex pretty well all the freakin' time. And as sexual activities are becoming less taboo, the need to branch out into more "nasty" stuff comes in, as going against a taboo is often part of the excitement.

    I wouldn't say it encourages rape, but increased rape crimes is a logical conclusion if you agree with what I've said above.

    Is the bolded suggesting that a lack of taboo is leading people to rape so they can get their forbidden rocks off?

    And I don't think our culture is over-sexualized at all, just that the sexualization that does happen is fucking messed up.

    The libertarian response to anything is, "Sure, that works fine in practice, but it doesn't fly in theory."
  • HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Heartlash wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    saint2e wrote: »
    Basically, there is nothing left to the imagination anymore, and I'm throwing my opinion in with the "highly sexualized society" and think this is just one of the nasty by-products of such.

    Why is it that a "highly sexualized society" necessarily means a society that encourages rape?

    It doesn't.

    Sex and the City is a highly sexualized show. It does not encourage rape or sexual violence. Likewise with many romantic comedies, even those targeted at a young male demographic (see: Judd Apatow stuff). The end goal for characters is almost always some form of legitimate romance, or the discovery of such. This sort of media is generally highly sexualized, yet doesn't ultimately denote sexual violence/exploitation as desirable outcome.

    Didn't Judd Apatow play a date rape off for laughs?

    Not sure, was it in one of his movies? The only one's I've seen almost always involve a love story.

    TiSBcast.com - Home of This is Serious Business, a weekly roundtable podcast involving media, beer, and general merriment.
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Isn't "snitching" something of a major taboo right now?

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • TheOtherHorsemanTheOtherHorseman Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Though we certainly live in an overly sexualized society where sex is misportrayed and devalued, we don't live in a "rape culture". Using phrases like that is sensationalism, and actually takes seriousness away from what is a real problem.

    If sexual assault isn't the "real problem," than what is?

    Sexual assault.

    The false "real problem" would be blaming it on a culture that encourages rape.

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It's not that the culture is sexualized, it's that it treats sex as conquest more than a loving sharing of emotions mixed with pleasure.

    I don't think that those are the only two options. I tend to get the impression that modern culture portrays sex as something fun to do far more than as either a commitment of any kind or a conquest. Women are more and more commonly portrayed as just as sexual and desirous of sex as men are, which, in and of itself, seems fairly healthy to me. I suspect that cases of young men objectifying women stem more from a general attitude of selfishness coupled with an otherwise realistic belief that women enjoy sex.

    The logical chain that goes:
    1) I am fucking awesome and God's gift to humanity
    2) I want sex
    3) That girl probably wants sex
    4) That girl must want me because, see (1)
    5) Rape.

    Divorced of part 1, which is completely independent of society's opinions of sexual conquest, the chain becomes a completely healthy:
    1) I want sex
    2) That girl probably wants sex
    3) Maybe she wants sex with me
    4) Ask girl for a hook-up

    Which may or may not be your idea of moral behavior, but without any sort of coercion looks perfectly fine to me. I think that it is, largely, just another conflation of problems. "Crazy kid who plays video games and watches action movies shoots other kid! Must be pop culture's fault!" No, it was because the kid was unbalanced in the first place. "Asshole rapes girl! Must be pop culture's fault!" No, it's because the guy was an asshole. It's possible for a guy to notch his bedpost every time he has sex with a new girl but still find rape to be a disgusting, deplorable, morally indefensible act.

    Edit: Also, the above (and the post I was responding to) assumes that the rape happens as a man desiring sexual conquest. Most sexual assaults are about personal dominance, not sex. In that case the rapist is doing it completely because he's fucked in the head, not because society said any particularly thing about women or sex.

    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Jesus, people. This thread is like a running gunbattle with stupid bullets.
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Though we certainly live in an overly sexualized society where sex is misportrayed and devalued, we don't live in a "rape culture". Using phrases like that is sensationalism, and actually takes seriousness away from what is a real problem.

    If sexual assault isn't the "real problem," than what is?

    When did I say that? Oh wait, I didn't. I'm saying throwing around terms like "rape culture" is sensationalist and makes people take the problem of our overly sexualized society less seriously.
    Sexual assault is a real problem, but isn't actively encouraged by our culture.

    All right. Well. If rape is so deeply condemned by our society, then why are rapes underreported, and why is the conviction rate for rape charges so low?

    Yes, because something sometimes goes unreported, it must mean our society actively encourages it.
    Can you hear yourself? Seriously, read your own sentence back to yourself there.

    A lot of car accidents go unreported too, and those aren't encouraged or acceptable either.
    It's condemned in the sense that any sane, stable person is completely against it.

  • TasteticleTasteticle Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Heartlash wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    saint2e wrote: »
    Basically, there is nothing left to the imagination anymore, and I'm throwing my opinion in with the "highly sexualized society" and think this is just one of the nasty by-products of such.

    Why is it that a "highly sexualized society" necessarily means a society that encourages rape?

    It doesn't.

    Sex and the City is a highly sexualized show. It does not encourage rape or sexual violence. Likewise with many romantic comedies, even those targeted at a young male demographic (see: Judd Apatow stuff). The end goal for characters is almost always some form of legitimate romance, or the discovery of such. This sort of media is generally highly sexualized, yet doesn't ultimately denote sexual violence/exploitation as desirable outcome.

    Didn't Judd Apatow play a date rape off for laughs?

    when did he ever do this?


    Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
  • ChanusChanus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    All right. Well. If rape is so deeply condemned by our society, then why are rapes underreported, and why is the conviction rate for rape charges so low?

    Rapes are underreported because being raped is stigmatized, people are afraid of repercussions, it can be difficult to prove, and people are ashamed of what happened to them.



    I also was hoping this thread was about this:

    plate098.jpg

  • saint2esaint2e Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Cervetus wrote: »
    saint2e wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    saint2e wrote: »
    Basically, there is nothing left to the imagination anymore, and I'm throwing my opinion in with the "highly sexualized society" and think this is just one of the nasty by-products of such.

    Why is it that a "highly sexualized society" necessarily means a society that encourages rape?

    I suppose that depends on your use of the word "encourage". I mean, mainstream media doesn't encourage having some with someone forcefully, but it encourages have sex pretty well all the freakin' time. And as sexual activities are becoming less taboo, the need to branch out into more "nasty" stuff comes in, as going against a taboo is often part of the excitement.

    I wouldn't say it encourages rape, but increased rape crimes is a logical conclusion if you agree with what I've said above.

    Is the bolded suggesting that a lack of taboo is leading people to rape so they can get their forbidden rocks off?

    That's one of the things that I believe is responsible, yes. However, not the only thing.

    banner_160x60_01.gif
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    Tasteticle wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Didn't Judd Apatow play a date rape off for laughs?

    when did he ever do this?

    That Mall Cop movie with Seth Rogan

    Apatow wasn't involved in any way with that movie.

  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »

    All right. Well. If rape is so deeply condemned by our society, then why are rapes underreported, and why is the conviction rate for rape charges so low?

    Yes, because something sometimes goes unreported, it must mean our society actively encourages it.
    Can you hear yourself? Seriously, read your own sentence back to yourself there.

    A lot of car accidents go unreported too, and those aren't encouraged or acceptable either.
    It's condemned in the sense that any sane, stable person is completely against it.

    That's kind of a dodge. You would think that if sexual violence was condemned and taken seriously, there'd be a lot more support for women who have been raped, and the people accused of rape would be convicted more often. Why do you think women often don't report rapes?

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Anybody watch Detroit Metal City? The misogyny is nasty to the point where I had to turn away. Some characters say things that are just too much.

    steam_sig.png
  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    All right. Well. If rape is so deeply condemned by our society, then why are rapes underreported, and why is the conviction rate for rape charges so low?

    Rapes are underreported because being raped is stigmatized, people are afraid of repercussions, it can be difficult to prove, and people are ashamed of what happened to them.[/IMG]

    This does not sound like the attitude of a society with healthy views about rape.

  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt Damn you, eidetic memory! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    All right. Well. If rape is so deeply condemned by our society, then why are rapes underreported, and why is the conviction rate for rape charges so low?

    Rapes are underreported because being raped is stigmatized, people are afraid of repercussions, it can be difficult to prove, and people are ashamed of what happened to them.[/IMG]

    This does not sound like the attitude of a society with healthy views about sex.

    Fixed that.

    Origin ID: Null_Cypher
    Thomas-Vail.png
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    saint2e wrote: »
    Basically, there is nothing left to the imagination anymore, and I'm throwing my opinion in with the "highly sexualized society" and think this is just one of the nasty by-products of such.

    Why is it that a "highly sexualized society" necessarily means a society that encourages rape?

    For what it's worth, I suspect a "highly sexualized society" isn't the driving cause, so much as simultaneously being a "highly sexually repressed society."

    We're a society that has sex thrown in our faces constantly, yet always told that sex is a bad thing, something to be repressed, and that we should be ashamed of that side of our nature.

    That's bound to create some conflicts in people, and sometimes those conflicts manifest in disturbing and violent ways.

    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • ChanusChanus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    All right. Well. If rape is so deeply condemned by our society, then why are rapes underreported, and why is the conviction rate for rape charges so low?

    Rapes are underreported because being raped is stigmatized, people are afraid of repercussions, it can be difficult to prove, and people are ashamed of what happened to them.[/IMG]

    This does not sound like the attitude of a society with healthy views about rape.

    I agree there.

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    Tasteticle wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Didn't Judd Apatow play a date rape off for laughs?

    when did he ever do this?

    That Mall Cop movie with Seth Rogan

    That's a pretty skewed reading of that scene. Seth Rogan's character took drugs for his mental condition which he was too handicapped to realize were actually helping him. He didn't think they had any particular effect on him and didn't realize that mixing them with booze, or taking a lot of them, would have adverse effects on his date. He gave her the drugs when she asked for them, thinking it would win him points with the girl he was hot for. What happened after that is largely attributable to him being too severely mentally handicapped to realize that what he was doing was wrong.

    Not that that makes it okay, but it sure as hell wasn't him slipping her drugs to get her into bed. It was a tragi-comic scene about a severely mentally handicapped guy thinking that he's gotten the girl of his dreams.

    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Jesus, people. This thread is like a running gunbattle with stupid bullets.
  • ChanusChanus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    Tasteticle wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Didn't Judd Apatow play a date rape off for laughs?

    when did he ever do this?

    That Mall Cop movie with Seth Rogan

    Apatow wasn't involved in any way with that movie.

    Didn't realize that... that's the movie that was referenced though (I think).

  • lenore beadsmanlenore beadsman Registered User
    edited October 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    I think the bigger issue is sex-as-status, and sex-as-power.

    Yup. That's rape culture.

  • lenore beadsmanlenore beadsman Registered User
    edited October 2009

    Edit: Also, the above (and the post I was responding to) assumes that the rape happens as a man desiring sexual conquest. Most sexual assaults are about personal dominance, not sex. In that case the rapist is doing it completely because he's fucked in the head, not because society said any particularly thing about women or sex.

    It is true that sexual assault is about dominance. And when the cultural narrative is that men are dominant and women are passive, sex itself becomes about dominance.

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