Should I get a 3rd Gen iTouch, ZuneHD or...

The_Spaniard

I know this will probably cause some havoc, but it's an honest question.

I'm in the market for a new MP3 player. My parents need a new iPod because they broke their old one and they have a portable dock player and a Karaoke machine for it. I told them I'd sell them my first gen 32gig MINT iTouch for 150 bucks and then just use the money towards a new MP3 player for myself.

So now I'm torn between a 3rd gen iTouch and a ZuneHD, I need convincing. Oh and one friend won't shut the God damned, buttfucking hell up about the Archos 5 and how I should give my first born to it so that I may bask in its glory. So when I was at Best Buy earlier today I saw an Archos on display and it looked pretty good but big!

I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about each of those three, or maybe a different one.

I like my current touch, but I'd like all the new features that the last 2 generations have added like an external speaker, etc.
The ZuneHD looks sexy as hell, I like the idea of ZunePass even if I probably won't use it, and OLED display sounds great.
The Archos is really fucking big, about an inch longer than an ipod and about half an inch wider, also about as thick as a first gen iPhone. It's got a sexy 5 inch display, tons of features, it runs on the android OS, it's a fucking tablet for Christ sake and can still fit in your pocket. Though as nice as it is it still is just a bit big, but if I didn't just get a netbook it would be an honest no-brainer. Just having got a netbook I'm a little apprehensive, not about price though, just about having such a powerful device as an MP3/video/web device.

Centipede Damascus

Personally, I would stay away from the Archos tablet because although it is built on Android, it was made without Google's cooperation, which means no apps, no gmail, etc.

The_Spaniard

Centipede Damascus wrote: »

Personally, I would stay away from the Archos tablet because although it is built on Android, it was made without Google's cooperation, which means no apps, no gmail, etc.

I hear they are coming up with their own app store, and who knows maybe they will be supported in the future. Not to mention it has full flash support. Holy crap, I'm looking further into this thing, and you can actually hook it up to your TV and use it as a DVR. You can schedule it to download programs at specific times and either watch them on the device or display them on your TV in HD! You can also access media stores directly on the device and download TV shows and movies.

Lucky Cynic

You are looking squarely on the hardware side, Spaniard. Try downloading the iTunes software and the Zune Marketplace software and toying with each of them. The software is an integral part of the device because the devices are still more or less anchored to a PC in some way, shape, or form although both are becoming more and more independent. That being said, try ripping a few CDs to a folder, and then importing the music to each software and giving each one a square look.

Its not just how zippy and cool the software is though. Its all about how the software works for you, and I am probably biased, but the Zune's software is way more dynamic and goes above and beyond in helping you find music that you will enjoy. There are Channels (themed playlists that automatically update every week), Mix View (elaborate web that connects similar artists), Smart DJ (magically creates a playlist of songs that actually work well together), and of course all the "Social" trimmings of interacting with other people's zune cards and seeing what they listen to, etc. I'm just sorry to say that MS has one upped Apple at its own game here...

As for the devices themselves, I always appreciated having something different and that is unique. When people see how thin, how sexy, and how fluid the interface is, the Zune HD just really shines. However, it really comes down to what tricks do you want it to do? Do you want a lot of random apps that do specific things that you may want a device to do, or would do you want something to be more music/media oriented?

The_Spaniard

Lucky Cynic wrote: »

You are looking squarely on the hardware side, Spaniard. Try downloading the iTunes software and the Zune Marketplace software and toying with each of them. The software is an integral part of the device because the devices are still more or less anchored to a PC in some way, shape, or form although both are becoming more and more independent. That being said, try ripping a few CDs to a folder, and then importing the music to each software and giving each one a square look.

Its not just how zippy and cool the software is though. Its all about how the software works for you, and I am probably biased, but the Zune's software is way more dynamic and goes above and beyond in helping you find music that you will enjoy. There are Channels (themed playlists that automatically update every week), Mix View (elaborate web that connects similar artists), Smart DJ (magically creates a playlist of songs that actually work well together), and of course all the "Social" trimmings of interacting with other people's zune cards and seeing what they listen to, etc.

As for the devices themselves, I always appreciated having something different and that is unique. When people see how thin, how sexy, and how fluid the interface is, the Zune HD just really shines. However, it really comes down to what tricks do you want it to do? Do you want a lot of random apps that do specific things that you may want a device to do, or would do you want something to be more music/media oriented?

Well there really isn't much in the way of software to speak of for the Achros, you just drag and drop files onto the device folders and you are done. No syncing or any of that crap.

Seeks

I can and will recommend any of the Zunes with actual buttons/pads on them, as they fit my purposes quite nicely. Specifically, I can use them without looking at them (driving, while it's in my pocket, etc.).

If it came down between an iTouch and a Zune HD, even though I'm a Zune fanboy, I would probably go with the iTouch if I didn't have a Zune Pass, if only because it has more utility. If you do get a Zune Pass (worth the money imo), then obviously a Zune HD hands down.

tl;dr, a Zune HD. Unless you don't/can't shell out $15/month, then the iTouch.

Edit: Full disclosure, I've never handled a Zune HD, and the closest I've gotten to an iTouch is... using a friend's iPhone.

Natheo

I guess it depends on if you want a iPhone that doesn't make phone calls, or an mp3 player. Having had experience with both, the zune hd is a better mp3 player, but if you want apps and so forth, then you'll have to go with the ipod touch.

Oh, and the browser in the zune HD is very nice.

Tw4win

I had a 2nd generation iPod touch (16 GB) and recently sold it to upgrade to a 32 GB Zune HD. While I like the Zune HD I'm actually thinking about going back to a larger iPod.

Some thoughts on the Zune HD

- I was really excited about the HD radio aspect of the mp3 player but it turns out that HD radio reception isn't that great. Generally I can't pick it up inside my house and it's really spotty in my car. I've been told that most HD radio signals are crap so I'm not sure how much of this problem is related to the Zune. Still, if it's a feature of the player I'd like for it to work well.

- Navigation. I like navigating around the iPod so much more than I like navigating around the Zune.

- Software. I know that a lot of people have issues with iTunes but I fond it much more streamlined and easier to use than the Zune software. Of course, I'm using iTunes on a mac - I've never tried it on PC. I MUST use Zune software on a PC and while that isn't a big deal I would like a mac option.

- Zune Pass. As far as I'm concerned this is the best part about the Zune. I love this service and have no problem paying $15 a month for it.

Bottom line, I like both players and I think that a lot of the issues I have with the Zune stem from having first used an iPod. I'm just accustomed to the iPods interface, etc...

I do wish the the HD Radio function of the Zune worked better...

Natheo

Regarding the interface, I think it was best stated in Gizmodos review. http://gizmodo.com/5360126/zune-hd-review-the-pmp-evolved

Basically, the zune hd set out to be the opposite of the ipod touch in this regard, and after taking a moment to figure a few things out about it, I think the zune hd interface is every bit as functional, but looks much better. It's just more fun to use. Also, the screen, damn. I cannot say enough good things about the hardware here.

Gizmodo has a tendency to slant very heavily towards apple in a lot of areas, so I was surprised when even they said quote "The Zune HD is the best touchscreen PMP on the market."

That said, if you're looking for a greater range of functionality, you will not find it in the zune hd. It's for media playback. No youtube, no decent games, nothing.

Synthesis

I would suggest playing around with both iTunes and Zune software myself. I hate iTunes with a passion--so the decision would be easy for me, however, the reverse could be true for you.

The_Spaniard

I'm leaning towards the 3rd Gen iTouch right now, but giving the Archos 5 Internet Tablet some serious thought.

Natheo

As far as videos go do you have a lot of your own stuff that you've ripped/acquired through other various means? You'll have an easier time in that regard with the Archos, I read it has pretty robust codec support. Like the zune hd.

Mustachio Jones

Give the HD some time to build up a little bit of an App library. With the dedicated nvidia Tegra GPU in it, there's the possibility for some nice games to come out. Audiosurf Tilt, for one.

I've had my HD since launch and I like it quite a bit. Once you get used to where everything is, it's just about as easy to navigate it in the car as a 30 or 80. My biggest problem with it right now is the lack of affordable cases.

Kyougu

The Zune HD wins in my book due just to the Zune pass. I wish Apple would do subscription based music.

Natheo

In my extremely biased opinion towards both audiosurf and the zune product line, it wins hands down for gaming for that reason

Vater5B

I really wish I had a PC so I could get a Zune HD. Zune Pass is the greatest idea ever.

But I'm not buying Windows just to run one app.

Lucky Cynic

Vater5B wrote: »

I really wish I had a PC so I could get a Zune HD. Zune Pass is the greatest idea ever.

But I'm not buying Windows just to run one app.

They are working on a Mac client.

Synthesis

Lucky Cynic wrote: »

Vater5B wrote: »

I really wish I had a PC so I could get a Zune HD. Zune Pass is the greatest idea ever.

But I'm not buying Windows just to run one app.

They are working on a Mac client.

Really? Honestly, I didn't think there was enough of a demand to do so.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love my Zune 80, but Apple has basically fostered a religion around the synergy between their operating systems and the iPod line. It's hard to go against that kind of campaigning and integration.

Lucky Cynic

Synthesis wrote: »

Lucky Cynic wrote: »

Vater5B wrote: »

I really wish I had a PC so I could get a Zune HD. Zune Pass is the greatest idea ever.

But I'm not buying Windows just to run one app.

They are working on a Mac client.

Really? Honestly, I didn't think there was enough of a demand to do so.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love my Zune 80, but Apple has basically fostered a religion around the synergy between their operating systems and the iPod line. It's hard to go against that kind of campaigning and integration.

If this divine synergy is called iTunes, I think you are mistaken because I strongly disagree that iTunes is the best it can be for connecting device to the computer itself.

LeCaustic

Wait, you have an itouch and you're changing? Why?

3G itouch was a lackluster pos that had nothing worthwhile. Get a Zune HD. Though, honestly, I'd keep your current touch.

Donkey Kong

His parents are getting the touch. He has to buy something new.

Personally, I'd go iPhone, but that's just me. Mac user + requirement of a super thin phone + love of convergence leaves you with not a lot of choices.

I used a Zune HD and found the browser sadly deficient and the lack of external volume controls downright baffling.

Kyougu

Lucky Cynic wrote: »

Vater5B wrote: »

I really wish I had a PC so I could get a Zune HD. Zune Pass is the greatest idea ever.

But I'm not buying Windows just to run one app.

They are working on a Mac client.

Really? This is the first I heard of this (awesome) news.

Is it a rumor though, or is there actual confirmation?

LeCaustic

Donkey Kong wrote: »

His parents are getting the touch. He has to buy something new.

Personally, I'd go iPhone, but that's just me. Mac user + requirement of a super thin phone + love of convergence leaves you with not a lot of choices.

I used a Zune HD and found the browser sadly deficient and the lack of external volume controls downright baffling.

That's just it, he doesn't have to. He wants to. Which case, either buy yourself a cheapo mp3 player that'll hold you over until a worthwhile touch comes out or buy a zune HD. There isn't anything significantly different (remotely worth the charge price for a new model) that would even entice a purchase. Zune HD hands down. The hardware alone makes it a no brainer.

Donkey Kong

One of my friends has a Zune HD and I've played with it a lot. I was not impressed in the least. What draws people to the hardware? I can understand preferring the Zune software (which is miles better then iTunes on Windows) and the Zune Pass offer (which is great and has no comparable offering on the iPod line). But the hardware kinds sucks.

The screen is nice but totally incapable of overcoming direct sunlight. I can also see little interference lines in it when it shows a particularly bright image. No external volume controls. The player interface is strange with no obvious sign when something is clickable. It tended to mis-regognize my flick gestures too, which made navigation annoying. From time to time, I'd click something and it would go unresponsive, so I'd click again and the clicks would stack and I'd end up in the wrong place... gross. Basic stuff, Microsoft. The app-like features are lacking and take way too long to start up. The browser sucks compared to mobile Safari in terms of both speed and usefulness.

LeCaustic

Donkey Kong wrote: »

One of my friends has a Zune HD and I've played with it a lot. I was not impressed in the least. What draws people to the hardware? I can understand preferring the Zune software (which is miles better then iTunes on Windows) and the Zune Pass offer (which is great and has no comparable offering on the iPod line). But the hardware kinds sucks.

The screen is nice but totally incapable of overcoming direct sunlight. I can also see little interference lines in it when it shows a particularly bright image. No external volume controls. The player interface is strange with no obvious sign when something is clickable. It tended to mis-regognize my flick gestures too, which made navigation annoying. From time to time, I'd click something and it would go unresponsive, so I'd click again and the clicks would stack and I'd end up in the wrong place... gross. Basic stuff, Microsoft. The app-like features are lacking and take way too long to start up. The browser sucks compared to mobile Safari in terms of both speed and usefulness.

the tegra processor. it is the end-all best processor out there. Given that hte Zune HD is the first to have it, it's bound to take a while to get software fully perfected to run with it. But it basically gives the Zune HD itself a HUGE advantage over any pmp.

I'm saying that's my choice between the two. But if I had to choose RIGHT NOW, i'd stay away from touchscreen pmp and get a zune 8 or 120.

Synthesis

Lucky Cynic wrote: »

Synthesis wrote: »

Lucky Cynic wrote: »

Vater5B wrote: »

I really wish I had a PC so I could get a Zune HD. Zune Pass is the greatest idea ever.

But I'm not buying Windows just to run one app.

They are working on a Mac client.

Really? Honestly, I didn't think there was enough of a demand to do so.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love my Zune 80, but Apple has basically fostered a religion around the synergy between their operating systems and the iPod line. It's hard to go against that kind of campaigning and integration.

If this divine synergy is called iTunes, I think you are mistaken because I strongly disagree that iTunes is the best it can be for connecting device to the computer itself.

Actual quality of product is an entirely different matter. I am just aware that iTunes (mostly) sucks on the Windows platform (any Windows platform, it doesn't matter). I can't say as to how good it is on Apple. I always assumed it was because of the very strong advertising and campaigning Apple has done on its behalf.

Arivia

Synthesis wrote: »

Lucky Cynic wrote: »

Synthesis wrote: »

Lucky Cynic wrote: »

Vater5B wrote: »

I really wish I had a PC so I could get a Zune HD. Zune Pass is the greatest idea ever.

But I'm not buying Windows just to run one app.

They are working on a Mac client.

Really? Honestly, I didn't think there was enough of a demand to do so.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love my Zune 80, but Apple has basically fostered a religion around the synergy between their operating systems and the iPod line. It's hard to go against that kind of campaigning and integration.

If this divine synergy is called iTunes, I think you are mistaken because I strongly disagree that iTunes is the best it can be for connecting device to the computer itself.

Actual quality of product is an entirely different matter. I am just aware that iTunes (mostly) sucks on the Windows platform (any Windows platform, it doesn't matter). I can't say as to how good it is on Apple. I always assumed it was because of the very strong advertising and campaigning Apple has done on its behalf.

Just to give you an example, the ass-backwards way plugging in an iPod works on Windows makes sense on OS X because that's how all USB devices perform. It's not perfect, but it fits the OS like a glove.

ZackSchilling

I'm curious. How does plugging in an iPod on windows work and how is it different from other devices?

The_Spaniard

ZackSchilling wrote: »

I'm curious. How does plugging in an iPod on windows work and how is it different from other devices?

I don't think a Ghost Robot would be able to understand.

DeathPrawn

Comparing the Zune HD and the iPod Touch is apples and oranges. The Zune is arguably the best PMP on the market right now for media playback, whereas the iPod Touch is a top-of-the-line PDA/game console/app platform that also happens to play your media - even if MS gets their act together with a Zune HD app store, it's not going to be able to compare. It really depends on what you want.

Depending on your phone situation you also might want to consider an iPhone instead of an iPod Touch. Cellular connection + Pandora/Last.fm = incredible.

The_Spaniard

DeathPrawn wrote: »

Comparing the Zune HD and the iPod Touch is apples and oranges. The Zune is arguably the best PMP on the market right now for media playback, whereas the iPod Touch is a top-of-the-line PDA/game console/app platform that also happens to play your media - even if MS gets their act together with a Zune HD app store, it's not going to be able to compare. It really depends on what you want.

Depending on your phone situation you also might want to consider an iPhone instead of an iPod Touch. Cellular connection + Pandora/Last.fm = incredible.

Yeah I want to try a ZuneHD, but the fact of the matter is that I do use a few of the apps on my iTouch often. Currency exchange, notepad, email, uhhh uhh damn I know there are more...

The_Spaniard

Do you have to own a Zune to have ZunePass? Is it a general service or is it tied to the Zune?

LeCaustic

The_Spaniard wrote: »

Do you have to own a Zune to have ZunePass? Is it a general service or is it tied to the Zune?

no, you don't at all. Though I don't know if the music you get from zunepass will work on non-zune pmps

The_Spaniard

LeCaustic wrote: »

The_Spaniard wrote: »

Do you have to own a Zune to have ZunePass? Is it a general service or is it tied to the Zune?

no, you don't at all. Though I don't know if the music you get from zunepass will work on non-zune pmps

That's kind of the point of me asking.

Elucida

The_Spaniard wrote: »

LeCaustic wrote: »

The_Spaniard wrote: »

Do you have to own a Zune to have ZunePass? Is it a general service or is it tied to the Zune?

no, you don't at all. Though I don't know if the music you get from zunepass will work on non-zune pmps

That's kind of the point of me asking.

Supposedly you can play the Zune Pass protected WMA files on any media player that supports PlaysForSure.

The_Spaniard

Elucida wrote: »

The_Spaniard wrote: »

LeCaustic wrote: »

The_Spaniard wrote: »

Do you have to own a Zune to have ZunePass? Is it a general service or is it tied to the Zune?

no, you don't at all. Though I don't know if the music you get from zunepass will work on non-zune pmps

That's kind of the point of me asking.

Supposedly you can play the Zune Pass protected WMA files on any media player that supports PlaysForSure.

Does an iTouch?

Kyougu

The_Spaniard wrote: »

Elucida wrote: »

The_Spaniard wrote: »

LeCaustic wrote: »

The_Spaniard wrote: »

Do you have to own a Zune to have ZunePass? Is it a general service or is it tied to the Zune?

no, you don't at all. Though I don't know if the music you get from zunepass will work on non-zune pmps

That's kind of the point of me asking.

Supposedly you can play the Zune Pass protected WMA files on any media player that supports PlaysForSure.

Does an iTouch?

No. No subscription based music will play on an Ipod Touch, a bane of my existence.

The_Spaniard

I'm in no rush, should I possibly wait till the next gen of iTouches when those fuckers finally drop in the camera and then jump on it? Not that I'd use the camera in day to day use, but I could imagine thousands of actually useful apps being released for it when it does. You know to scan items in stores, etc.

The_Spaniard

I'm sitting here updating my current touch and what really fucking pisses me off about Apple is that they charge for firmware updates. At first I was pissed that I had to pay to get into the app store, that was like charging a cover to get into a grocery store, but now if I want to keep using apps that I bought I have to update my firmware and pay for the privilege even though the firmware adds NO NEW FEATURES OR FUNCTION to my first gen iTouch.

LeCaustic

The_Spaniard wrote: »

I'm sitting here updating my current touch and what really fucking pisses me off about Apple is that they charge for firmware updates. At first I was pissed that I had to pay to get into the app store, that was like charging a cover to get into a grocery store, but now if I want to keep using apps that I bought I have to update my firmware and pay for the privilege even though the firmware adds NO NEW FEATURES OR FUNCTION to my first gen iTouch.

Yeah, that's why I have a 1g touch gathering dust (amongst other reasons I don't care to elaborate on - cough buying it for my wife who then bought an iphone - cough). I'm not paying for something I should get for FREE. I wish I could hack the f.cker to use as a zune, but that would fail so hard.

I'd wait and see what the plans are for the next touch and if it's nothing, get the newest on they just launched at a discounted price. The newer ones, from what I've heard, have something better about them that lets them play certain games the old touches can't.

Can't touch this! :lol:

The_Spaniard

LeCaustic wrote: »

The_Spaniard wrote: »

I'm sitting here updating my current touch and what really fucking pisses me off about Apple is that they charge for firmware updates. At first I was pissed that I had to pay to get into the app store, that was like charging a cover to get into a grocery store, but now if I want to keep using apps that I bought I have to update my firmware and pay for the privilege even though the firmware adds NO NEW FEATURES OR FUNCTION to my first gen iTouch.

Yeah, that's why I have a 1g touch gathering dust (amongst other reasons I don't care to elaborate on - cough buying it for my wife who then bought an iphone - cough). I'm not paying for something I should get for FREE. I wish I could hack the f.cker to use as a zune, but that would fail so hard.

I'd wait and see what the plans are for the next touch and if it's nothing, get the newest on they just launched at a discounted price. The newer ones, from what I've heard, have something better about them that lets them play certain games the old touches can't.

Can't touch this! :lol:

Like I said earlier, I won't die if I don't upgrade right now, so I'm going to wait and see if the next models of the touch have a built in camera that they insultingly buttfucked their consumers out of in the latest iteration.