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Dress for success! or don't?
Captain Vash
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Do you dress to your audience?
Do you let your actions speak louder than your Rockin' t-shirts from Metallica's latest tour?
Do you think khakis and a polo convey a sense of establishment and respect?
Or do they say "I'm a tool who subscribes to corporate america's bs"?
several opinions peeled from another thread to start us off
fight!
Do you let your actions speak louder than your Rockin' t-shirts from Metallica's latest tour?
Do you think khakis and a polo convey a sense of establishment and respect?
Or do they say "I'm a tool who subscribes to corporate america's bs"?
several opinions peeled from another thread to start us off
The service is what the customer base of those stores care about. They want the employees to know the product and be helpful. That is all the "excellence" that is required. Wearing different clothes than jeans and a t-shirt does not make anyone more "excellent." Jesus Christ.
Meh. I don't represent something larger than myself. I'm there because they pay me to be there. If they ask that I dress a certain way while I'm there I weigh that against how much I'm being paid and how much I need the money. Considering that my paycheck covers a mortgage and 2 car payments I'll bend to wearing a polo while I'm at work. But you know what, I don't act any less professionally when I'm in on the weekend or working a midshift and wearing a t-shirt that I bought at Old Navy.
Clothes really don't make the man. Work history, work ethic, and results do. Any manager who can't or doesn't see that is doing it wrong.
Captain Vash wrote: »Uhg.
Yes, everyone should wear jeans and t-shirts all the time, who cares anyways?
Good is good enough, why strive for excellent?
You're literally saying as long as he doesn't look visually repulsive he's ok with me.
Does that mean I won't dress up to make an impression? Hell no. I'll upgrade to business casual (or whatever khakis and a polo with nice shoes is) when there are high-ranking Air Force people around because it is important to _them_. I appreciate quite a bit that it is not at all important to my boss that I wear tan pants instead of blue ones. And why should it? I sit at a desk and do my job. Who the fuck cares what pants I'm wearing that day?
Yeah, I don't get the push for ultra-casual. If I walked into a meeting in jeans and a T I'd get looks like I lost my goddamn mind. Everyone's work experience isn't the same and subject to the lowest common denominator standards of dress.
Retail clerks should be at a minimum neat and well attired. They reflect on the business. There is a wide gulf between Hot Topic and Brooks Brothers, and each org gets to decide where they want to fit on that scale.
fight!
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It's a call center, so there isn't a lot of physical customer interaction. There's just a general level of decency expected.
it has been stated strongly that this is a relic of a system that needs to fall by the wayside.
Being pretentious about clothing isn't unheard of or even unreasonable - I just hate wearing tight-fitting, expensive clothes.
And like everything else, simply an opinion. Tradition will hold as long as the person making the rules makes sure it holds.
Also, no one sane complains that they have to take showers, cut their hair every once in a while, shave, and do other things to take care of their appearance, but god forbid I should have to put on good-looking clothes? Really?
thank you sir.
I was getting thrashed for trying to make that issue in the gamestop thread.
It does. What does it say about my capabilities as anything other than a fashionista when I wear a suit and tie instead of jeans and a sweater?
I can understand telling employees "no printed t-shirts," but if I want to wear blue jeans that aren't stained, faded, and full of holes along with a clean plain black t-shirt what's the big deal? Where does the assumption that I will be better at my job if I am wearing slacks, a button down shirt, and a tie come from? Because I know it is not true for me. I am not comfortable in those clothes, and I will not work as effectively while wearing them.
EDIT: I guess my point is that "professional" does not always need to (or ever, in my opinion) mean suit and tie. Why can't it mean "put on clean, inoffensive clothes after a shave and shower"?
Regardless of what you wear IT MAKES A STATEMENT ABOUT YOU. And there is nothing wrong with this. If you wear a Slayer tshirt it means you like Heavy Metal, if you wear a tie it means you are a business man. If your shirt is covered in holes and stains you are a vagrant. These stereotypes might not be true, but they exist and you should use them to your advantage to convey something without having to hang a sign around your next.
It probably doesn't help me that i live in San Diego, the most casual place in America.
But I'm prone to keeping things to my narrow band of preferred colors. I do not own a single white shirt.
Hygiene != clothing. Routinely associating casual attire with uncleanliness will not score you any points here.
Also just a quick point of clarification, Khavall: Do you mean to say that dressing casual holds NO other meaning than "I don't care"? Personally, I don't think it holds any meaning at all and if it does it certainly isn't "I don't care". Show me this meaning and how it comes from my clothes.
I understand it's tradition, that's the way it's always been, whatever. That doesn't make it so.
People want SO BADLY to judge a person by their appearances. It's kind of disgusting. They want to know about your qualities, what you've got on the inside, what makes you tick, how you think, what your skills are... these are difficult and often impossible things for them to know so instead they do what? They do what's easy. They judge you based on what they can see, what's on the outside, and then assume it must be a reflection of what's on the inside. Dumb.
As for corporate dress (or generally, any place not requiring a uniform) - dress codes are required to maintain a standard. Since the going theory is that clothing represents your personal opinions and views, corporations create and enforce dress codes in order to attempt to maintain a standard of behavior. Coasting along in your pressed jeans will only get you so far if the code requires at least khakis.
OT: why the hell would a company forbid non-pleated khakis? Or forbid pleated ones, for that matter? Who cares?!
I'd argue that Seattle is just as casual if not more so to a fault.
This is true but it depends on the situation as always. I'm a computer programmer and wear whatever the fuck I want and only talk to other people on my team. I could dress nicer but it wouldn't get me anywhere in my current job. Hell I have been mocked for being too formal at my office for wearing a dress shirt untucked and jeans.
...which is why I keep my tuxedo freshly cleaned!
I don't think my employer really wants me to show up in the boxer shorts and robe of a guy who can afford to play video games all day because he finally hit the Lotto.
You want to serve rolls to people listening to speeches at charity dinners?
The jobs I want are higher level software eningeering jobs. Those people dress just as casually as I do.
Then make sure you dress casually very well.
OR, GASP: work from home. I dont get why that concept died out so fast, its great if you go into the office every other day and bring in work/do work. I'm gonna work nude one day, might as well be sooner rather than me wondering into work naked when im 60.
Clothing was a symbol of station long before the important people were trimming their togas with purple dye.
Everyone judges everyone else by their appearances. If you want to fit in at an office, suit up. If you want to fit in at a goth club, wear black pleather and a studded collar. Every subculture has their norms and standards.
If you wear a suit in the office I work in everybody will ask if you have a job interview later in the day. The dressiest that management two levels up from me gets is dress slacks, a button down, and a tie.
Find a new tailor. Business wear shouldn't feel tight or uncomfortable. It should feel awesome.
There are tons of work from home jobs in Seattle.
I avoid them, however, because I actually want to -advance- in whatever company I get involved in.
And why should I have to wear expensive clothes to do my job?
Because you do not know how to shop around.
Regardless of the caliber of clothing being bought enough suits for a week is going to cost more than decent jeans and polos. Again, why should I have to wear expensive (or more expensive) clothes to do my job?
Why should you do anything that anyone else asks you to do?
The punchline I know is "So the next day, I came in wearing a Yankees uniform."
EDIT: That isn't to say that my coworkers shouldn't think I am a good employee - only that they should know to judge me based on work done and not clothing choice.
Why should you wear a shirt that is not covered in barbeque sauce?
Because people are more comfortable working with people who can show that they give a shit.
But man, having a week's worth of business attire isn't that expensive. Go to fucking Target or Mervyns.
But it's not just hygiene. There's no hygiene reason I shave my face, I just look better without a beard. Some guys don't or do but very specifically. There's no hygiene reason that right now I'm letting my hair grow out but other times I cut it, again, I'm going for a look. We change our appearance in so many ways for specific reasons and I don't see why clothes should be different. Why do I almost always wear something that can be open in the front, be it semi-zipped hoodie, blazer, suit jacket, button-down, or whatever? Because that works well for me. I change it up sometimes to make sure I have variety, but I dress certain ways to go for certain looks. I don't see why that's a problem or why that needs to go by the wayside. Sure, appearance doesn't tell you everything about the person. But it tells you what their appearance is, how much they care about their appearance, and a few other things. And it tells you everything it tells you immediately.
You may not be able to tell a book by its cover, but if the cover is a shirtless dude with a rose in his teeth and the title is "Read about this guy having sex" and you wanted to read sci-fi, or you needed an instructional booklet you can probably figure out that the book's not what you're looking for. Appearance is a useful barometer for many things.
Also, no I wasn't saying that casual dressing has no other meaning than I don't care. Which is why I said that it does have other meaning than I don't care. Often when I'm working as a director with people who I've worked with before and am comfortable and friendly with, I feel ok dressing casually, or loosening up the belt, undoing the tie, unbuttoning the shirt, whatever, because in addition to being comfortable enough with the people that I know they'll be fine and any authority I have won't be compromised it tells them that I feel comfortable with them. If they first see me snazzying up the outfit and then I relax around them, it feels more relaxed and intimate. If I'm performing instead of directing, I don't outdress the director, and I try to fit in with any other group members so that we can fit together and work together. If I'm leading in a performance, I put on some extra level of dressing up than if I'm performing. Of course when I play with my band instead of my normal performance clothes I wear a vest, tie, non-suit button-down and jeans. etc. etc. etc. Picking clothes to match an occasion is just as important as tempering actions to fit an occasion.
Now, the extra note that is important to my view is that I have no dress code. I dress how I do because I want to, because I look better in certain clothes, and because I use the clothing, not because someone is telling me I must wear x, y, and z because a, b, and c will feel d, e, and f about it.
All I'm saying is that clothes and appearance does have an affect on people other than tradition, and it's not a horrible thing that needs to stop.
And finally, Looking nice doesn't mean being uncomfortable. Get better dress clothes if you're uncomfortable. I can wear my tux or a suit out and feel pretty good about how I look in them and be pretty comfortable in them.
This is the point I am making. Clean jeans and clean polos ought to be considered business attire. I already have plenty of that. And as a bonus I like wearing those things when I am not at work. I find it pretty stupid that our society seems to think I should have two wardrobes when my job does not expressly require specialized clothing.
EDIT: As to the comfort of dress clothes - my dress clothes fit well and were professionally tailored. I just don't care for how they feel. It is preference that is not born of owning shitty dress clothes. Some people don't care for how boots feel as opposed to sneakers. I don't care for how suits feel as opposed to jeans and a t-shirt.
You're also not a special little snowflake impervious to arbitrary rules used to create a unified work environment through dress, language, activity, etc etc.