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MTV UK: Now recruiting for the Army, fuck yeah!

Raybies666Raybies666 Registered User regular
edited November 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
To start off with, I've no problem with the military in principle. My Grandfather was an army man, I nearly did the Grosse Point Blank "Freak out and join the army" move after school.

The British army run ads where they show dangerous situations (like attacking a bomb factory), give you a list of options and ask what you would do. THere's usually only one right answer, and they say something along the lines of "if you got that right, you might be what we're looking for"

I've no problem with that, they show soldiers in actual real life danger.

What I do have a problem with is this:

www.mtv.co.uk/army

MTV are running ads on other UK TV networks where a man is stopped from going into a nightclub for wearing khaki shorts. We're then told that he's a soldier.

The quite attractive woman with the clipboard turns to camera and asks how he'll get in?

There's 4 options, but it turns out they're all correct.

Fitness: Guy runs home, gets acceptable pants, gets into club.
Teamwork: Guy calls a friend, friend brings pants
Leadership: Guy gets his mates to start chanting his name, so he seems famous and can get in.
Negotiation: Guy talks someone who probably won't go into swapping pants, so guy can get in.

On the MTV website, you see flashes of the army doing things like that but no danger. On tv, you don't see any actual army situations.

Either way, they're flat out saying " join the army, it will help your civilain life"

I find this to be disgustingly misleading, especially as the UK army are still sending troops to Afghanistan. Sign up, you might get immediately shot at!

I see this in my head every time those ads are on


BIG EDIT BEFORE ANYONE READS OR ANSWERS: Just to reiterate, I've no problem with military institutions, just this recruiting tactic.

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Posts

  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Do you honestly think people are not aware that the army involves guns and bullets flying in your general direction?

    What they try to show with these kind of ads is that there is more to the army than that. It's clearly not meant as completely serious, but just to showcase 4 elements of army-life that might interest young people.

    Aldo on
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2009
    Our army ads are everywhere, at at no point show anyone within eyeshot of a gun. Apparently its all a giant khaki bushwalk with a party at the other end. Also, Leadership Opportunities! And you get to play with Big Machines! There's certainly nothing about spending your days tipping refugees back into the sea or getting shot by the Taliban in between bullying sessions.

    Recruitment ads are kind of nasty in general, and they get nastier when running operations are unpopular. Its still better than conscription and press gangs, though.

    The Cat on
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  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    The Cat wrote: »
    Our army ads are everywhere, at at no point show anyone within eyeshot of a gun. Apparently its all a giant khaki bushwalk with a party at the other end. Also, Leadership Opportunities! And you get to play with Big Machines! There's certainly nothing about spending your days tipping refugees back into the sea or getting shot by the Taliban in between bullying sessions.

    Recruitment ads are kind of nasty in general, and they get nastier when running operations are unpopular. Its still better than conscription and press gangs, though.
    No idea how the Aussie army does it, but here most ads first show someone in civilian life and then they cut to soldiers doing dangerous stuff in the field or in training. Firmly holding their rifles and all that.

    Last shot is usually the complete personell of a base, vessel or camp posing together with the slogan 'one team. one goal.' above them.

    Still cheesy as fuck, and there's usually heavy elements of "check out what we get to work with!", but that's usually for jobs with the tech guys.

    Aldo on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited November 2009
    The only ads I've encountered here are radio ads on Spotify. They do stuff like have one voice list the days of the week with another voice at the same time saying random colors. Then they ask which days were red. "If you can answer this, you're officer material!"

    Echo on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Until any of your armies have funded the development of a video game, you foreigners got nothin' on U.S. army marketing.

    Generally speaking though, yeah, it's pretty disgusting.

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  • Raybies666Raybies666 Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Aldo wrote: »
    Do you honestly think people are not aware that the army involves guns and bullets flying in your general direction?

    What they try to show with these kind of ads is that there is more to the army than that. It's clearly not meant as completely serious, but just to showcase 4 elements of army-life that might interest young people.

    Army ads that show dangerous situations are not on TV anymore.
    Army ads that show soldiers at home having skills to deal with chaos of serious traffic accidents before emergency services arrive do not run on tv anymore.

    An ad equating army skills to getting into a nightclub does run.

    I don't think people are completely unaware, I also don't think you can fully understand the gravity of being in another country and being in a state of mortal danger until you are actually being shot at.

    There may be more to the army, but it is completely dishonest to present a social benefit to people watching music tv channels, while not presenting the fact they are sending soldiers to very dangerous places right now. And lets face it, being in any army, that level of discipline, is pretty fucking serious.


    EDIT: Also, MTV helping with army recruiting. MTV. ARMY. I really can't reconcile that in my head.

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  • Raybies666Raybies666 Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Echo wrote: »
    The only ads I've encountered here are radio ads on Spotify. They do stuff like have one voice list the days of the week with another voice at the same time saying random colors. Then they ask which days were red. "If you can answer this, you're officer material!"

    I don't get it. Just as well, given my days of wanting to be in the army are long over.

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  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Look, armies around the western europe are in dire need of new recruits, I can't really blame them that they are trying to reach out to young folks in other ways.

    And as i said before, the point of that commercial wouldn't be "join the army so you can get proper pants to get in a night club" it would be "hey, in the army you get to experience these 4 aspects, just imagine how cool that would be in civilian life".

    Of course it is not an honest representation of army life. It's a advertisement. If kids are interested in joining, *then* they will get their factual information. At least...I hope they do. I don't really know how honest recruitment officers are in Western European countries. I know that in the US they can be less than honest.

    Aldo on
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    It doesn't suprise me at all that the military is taking a "We'll make your life better! Will give you money and muscles so you can get FUCKED!" statement to lure people in during a severe recession.

    I'm waiting...waiting, for the Army to change it's slogan to "Fortune Favors the Bold." But I think they currently are getting enough riffraff that they don't have a problem with recruiting and are becoming more selective.

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  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2009
    Echo wrote: »
    The only ads I've encountered here are radio ads on Spotify. They do stuff like have one voice list the days of the week with another voice at the same time saying random colors. Then they ask which days were red. "If you can answer this, you're officer material!"

    They also have posters in the subway where I live and there's a fairly new tv campaign as well. Both of these campaigns are similar in style: they show an image/shot of a crowd of what appears to be sad people at a UN food delivery site and a text which reads something like "You are needed somewhere right now".

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Our Marines apparently spend a significant portion of their time mountain climbing alone, and then they get struck by lightning, and magically transform into dress uniform.

    Fencingsax on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    The Cat wrote: »
    Our army ads are everywhere, at at no point show anyone within eyeshot of a gun. Apparently its all a giant khaki bushwalk with a party at the other end. Also, Leadership Opportunities! And you get to play with Big Machines! There's certainly nothing about spending your days tipping refugees back into the sea or getting shot by the Taliban in between bullying sessions.

    Recruitment ads are kind of nasty in general, and they get nastier when running operations are unpopular. Its still better than conscription and press gangs, though.

    In fairness you are reasonably unlikely to get deployed to Afgahnistan depending what area you go into, and pretty likely to get sent to the Solomans or East Timor.

    Still, we have a 1,000 people in Afgahnistan, something like 20,000 regulars, so that's still 5% each year - probably higher when you factor in rear echelon types.

    electricitylikesme on
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2009
    East Timor still was and is pretty bad, though. We just don't hear about it. The Solomons is still mostly AFP rather than army, as I recall.

    The Cat on
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  • SpoonySpoony Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Cantido wrote: »
    It doesn't suprise me at all that the military is taking a "We'll make your life better! Will give you money and muscles so you can get FUCKED!" statement

    Amusingly, this is probably one of the more honest recruitment pitches.

    "You'll lose 50 lbs. in basic, you'll get laid all the time and you get to do shit that makes Bruce Willis look like a bitch! See your recruiter today!"

    Spoony on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Spoony wrote: »
    Cantido wrote: »
    It doesn't suprise me at all that the military is taking a "We'll make your life better! Will give you money and muscles so you can get FUCKED!" statement

    Amusingly, this is probably one of the more honest recruitment pitches.

    "You'll lose 50 lbs. in basic, you'll get laid all the time and you get to do shit that makes Bruce Willis look like a bitch! See your recruiter today!"

    Side effects may include PTSD, death, depression, and the inability to adjust to civilian life after major wars. Consult with your doctor before deciding that the military is right for you.

    Couscous on
  • TK-42-1TK-42-1 Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    It's just like every other form of advertising. A lincoln car won't go to warp factor 7. military isnt all super awesome. its just to generate thoughts in young people who are the backbone of any country's military.

    im not entirely sure where the outrage is from some of you.

    TK-42-1 on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    TK-42-1 wrote: »
    It's just like every other form of advertising. A lincoln car won't go to warp factor 7. military isnt all super awesome. its just to generate thoughts in young people who are the backbone of any country's military.

    im not entirely sure where the outrage is from some of you.

    Buying a car is a bit different from a person committing himself to the military.

    Couscous on
  • TK-42-1TK-42-1 Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    the discussion is about the ads tho. The marines ad is a visual metaphor. the comparison is the same tho. when you go driving you could very easily get in a wreck and die. every time. but they dont highlight that in the ads. they show wrecks occasionally, same as military ads occasionally show a firefight, but they never show the gritty reality behind it. its always sanitzed.

    im still not seeing where the outrage is coming from other than misplaced aggression towards the military in general.

    TK-42-1 on
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  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2009
    I'm still waiting for an ad implying that everybody who joins the national guard will train dolphins to hunt terrorists. All the other branches are already implying that everybody sits around flying drones.

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  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    I applied to the Air Force to fire retro rockets on satellites when exploding debris comes hurtling toward them, and to inform our infantry of enemy snipers on Mars from a command base across the planet.

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  • GanluanGanluan Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    I applied to the Air Force to fire retro rockets on satellites when exploding debris comes hurtling toward them, and to inform our infantry of enemy snipers on Mars from a command base across the planet.

    You mean those ads weren't really what happens?

    I actually liked the National Guard's thing where they had some cross-promotion going with 3 Doors Down. They did a song (called Citizen Soldier I think) that had a pretty cool music video showing various parts of being a soldier - combat, rescuing comrades, awards, etc.

    Ganluan on
  • TravanTravan Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Our Marines apparently spend a significant portion of their time mountain climbing alone, and then they get struck by lightning, and magically transform into dress uniform.

    Don't forget slaying dragons! Most important part of being a Marine, protecting America from dragons.

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  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    The British ads ironically enough are probably among some of the better and more honest.

    I mean you get stuff like.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUcaM_0ztbM

    And recently we had the "you're in Afganistan X situation occurs, what do you do?"

    Leitner on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Our Marines apparently spend a significant portion of their time mountain climbing alone, and then they get struck by lightning, and magically transform into dress uniform.
    They fight a lot of lava monsters, too.

    Which seems pretty cool. The Marines have the coolest dress uniforms and the best recruitment ads. Plus they kick lava monster ass. Can't say that about the Navy.

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  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Our Marines apparently spend a significant portion of their time mountain climbing alone, and then they get struck by lightning, and magically transform into dress uniform.
    They fight a lot of lava monsters, too.

    Which seems pretty cool. The Marines have the coolest dress uniforms and the best recruitment ads. Plus they kick lava monster ass. Can't say that about the Navy.

    True, but when I heard the US Navy's ad: "If someone wrote a book about your life, would anyone want to read it?" spoken by Captain Anderson, that was pretty sweet.

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  • WazzaWazza Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Our Marines apparently spend a significant portion of their time mountain climbing alone, and then they get struck by lightning, and magically transform into dress uniform.
    They fight a lot of lava monsters, too.

    Which seems pretty cool. The Marines have the coolest dress uniforms and the best recruitment ads. Plus they kick lava monster ass. Can't say that about the Navy.

    Navy does super secret ninja stuph.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fetNQ6uxCx0&feature=player_embedded

    Wazza on
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited November 2009
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  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited November 2009
    That Seals ad was pretty classy, actually.

    Echo on
  • Phil G.Phil G. __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2009
    Canadian Forces ads are pretty good.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxvHPSXE54Q

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_6vK_JSSTo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca4QBPlQdgY

    In basic, they apparently ask: "So, which one tricked you into joining?" Jocularly, of course.

    Phil G. on
  • Mom2KatMom2Kat Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    I must say that I love the Canadian Forces ads. At least the Fight... series. The ones that are posted. They just seemed so much more real than the American ones we get on those channels. Where the American ones seem to be pomp and circumstance ours are more, yeah shit sucks but are you Canadian enough to help in shitty situations?

    Edit: Mind you we don't get the wonderfull voice of Gary Sinese telling us the army is awesome. That is a deffinate downside. I love that mans voice

    Mom2Kat on
  • Raybies666Raybies666 Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Aldo wrote: »
    Look, armies around the western europe are in dire need of new recruits, I can't really blame them that they are trying to reach out to young folks in other ways.

    Armies in need of recruits does not excuse misleading advertising towards you signing away part of your life.
    And as i said before, the point of that commercial wouldn't be "join the army so you can get proper pants to get in a night club" it would be "hey, in the army you get to experience these 4 aspects, just imagine how cool that would be in civilian life".

    Stop assuming I don't understand. The ad does not represent any real part of army life and is being aimed at young adults, using the example of not being let into social situations. That tends to be a concern for younger adults, so they are associating military service with better social standing. Its very pointed advertising with a very clear agenda. As it is being done through MTV, it's even more obvious and has a very clear subtext.
    Of course it is not an honest representation of army life. It's a advertisement. If kids are interested in joining, *then* they will get their factual information. At least...I hope they do. I don't really know how honest recruitment officers are in Western European countries. I know that in the US they can be less than honest.

    It's an advertisment for you to sign away part of your life, its not like an ad for washing powder that will get your whites whiter. The stakes are too high for this to be acceptable.

    You're giving it a pass because someone higher should catch it, even though you know that doesn't always happen in your own country.

    You can't see whats wrong with it, I can't see whats NOT wrong with it. Perhaps you and I should leave it there.

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  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    The NZ Army used to do a mixture of problem solving = promising recruit + a Laura Croft like figure who does Laura Croft like stuff while being the Army + some sort of online game/leader-board

    Never really worked on me, but then the military isn't very big back home nor a popular choice for careers. Which isn't to say people don't respect the military, it just hasn't been a big part of national life since we pulled out of Vietnam.

    I think I know a couple of people in the military well and maybe half a dozen casual acquaintances. I think I'd almost know more US military personnel (largely via my old WOW guild) and it just seems to be a much more important of national life there and indeed in the UK too, where I currently live.

    For example, in the UK there is constant talk of the "Covenant" between the military and the nation (or crown?) and military matters form a regular part of daily news. This makes sense, given the wars and the fact that it is Armistice Day tomorrow here, but it is somewhat disconcerting I find, as a foreigner*. Anyone else noticed this? Also, I remember a few months back there was an Army ad here in the UK that didn't seem to have a clear purpose, it infact seemed like a general ad for the army and how cool/good/useful it was. It didn't seem right for the Army to advertise on its own merits. My German house-mate and I were both rather shocked when we saw the ad.

    *Noting of course that I've plenty of family which have served in both the British and New Zealand armed forces

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  • TK-42-1TK-42-1 Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    a realistic army depiction?

    the onions got that covered

    TK-42-1 on
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