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Amanda Knox, acquitted of murder - Italian court orders new trial after appeal
Posts
So perhaps the jury thought that the case was good enough to find the defendant guilty. Is this not a possibility?
yeah, I noticed this too.
If that boingboing post is the worst example of "italy bashing" you could find you don't have much of a leg to stand on.
my unofficial autobio will be accompanied with tips on how to smile
cause I've found that when they don't see you frown, they never know that you're a threat
and they don't sweat you when you came around
Of course they did. I mean, that's exactly what happened. How could you argue that the jury didn't think the case was good enough?
What we're talking about is whether or not the jury was right and whether or not the peculiarities of the Italian court system along with the handling of the case led to the jury being unduly influenced or misled.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Please could you point out any claims about anyone's innocence or incompetence in relation to this trial?
I feel a misunderstanding of some sort may have occurred.
Which is one of the things i've been trying to point out, more than anything it's a knee jerk (this is getting really overused now) reaction with Italy bashing thrown in. I posted it as an example of what I was talking about how in the media right now and in this thread there's an overwhelming subtext of that somehow the Italian court system and government is totally corrupt and incompetent so by subtext she's this innocent person at the mercy of these evil people.
Rarely anyone is taking a step back and saying "hey, what about what she said during the court proceedings?".
Again, it seems like I have to say this every post now.. I do not care whether she's innocent, guilty or the reincarnation of elvis in female form. What I have been saying is that nobody is taking a step back and saying "what about what she said?" and instead becoming purely focused on Italy bashing.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
The first quote in this very tree is you defending the fact that the prosecution changed its story multiple times. In essence, you're saying that this isn't a sign of the weakness of the case against Knox or poor reasoning on the part of the prosecution.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
...So... what about what she said? :?
I'm interested to see if you have anything new to say, because what she said (hah) has already been talked about in this thread multiple times.
except no one is actually doing that
my unofficial autobio will be accompanied with tips on how to smile
cause I've found that when they don't see you frown, they never know that you're a threat
and they don't sweat you when you came around
This isn't the same as me saying that the prosecution was incompetent without you making some leaps in reasoning on my behalf.
Do you not see how saying, "X isn't a sign of incompetence/wrongdoing on the part of the prosecution," is a statement about the prosecution's incompetence and, indirectly, Knox's innocence in relation to the trial? It's not a definitive claim, but it is an obvious defense.
Apart from that, it was a flawed defense for the reasons stated above.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Do you not see how "admission of wrongdoing" is not the same as "sign of incompetence/wrongdoing"?
again, reposting this
also everyone go read The Monster of Florance, or read up on it... and notice just who was in charge of the police side of it was in charge of the knox case.
And no the prosecution was not incompetent, they are devious. The main guy is under investigation for corruption but has such connections as to be able to delay the investigation again and again.
As much as I agree Italy's justice system is bullshit I think some elements of the US media are pushing the "white American girl MUST be innocent!?!" angle a bit much.
wait
wait
What?
(the first interrogation of many)
Reminds me of the Japanese legal system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_confession#Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_justice_system_of_Japan#Conviction_rate
Which is awful, but just kinda par for the course when it comes to murder cases.
The author I quoted was following a high-profile murder trial and pointed out that "A wizard did it" is not a valid explanation, and prosecutor Mignini became upset.
No, that probably did not happen and is all not even circumstantial evidence, but a theory created by a prosecutor that is currently under investigation for corruption. There is no psychical evidence pointing to that happening. None.
Read thread.
The whole preston interrogation and the fact that this basically happened in mirror 2-10+ years ago is kinda crazy
Oh, I read that wrong. I thought you were saying YOU were interrogated by him.
So you're saying Japan needs to go in the hole too?
The only one with a retarded knee jerk reaction in this thread is you.
I'm not American, so have fun trying to blame this on your stupid "America good Italy bad" theory.
What you need to do is read the thread and the articles that have been posted instead of jumping to conclusions about what motives people here have for attacking Italy (hint: it has something to do with this thread). Your preposterous theories would be on some solid ground if we all agree to assume that the Italian media is leaving out crucial evidence that damns Knox.
Thankfully, people here are smarter than that.
Also, feel free to completely ignore the rape apologist verdict the Italian "justice" system managed to fumble. It's not relevant or anything as to how fucking useless their system is, no sir.
Who has argued she's innocent?
BTW - the burden of proof isn't on the defendant to prove their innocence, according to the Italian constitution.
Also BTW - the British press hasn't exactly been riding the objectiveness pony with this trial either. It's been largely "America! Fuck them!"
Interrogation for 14 hours without an attorney, the jury being corrupted by a rabid media, and using illegally gathered evidence in the trial is way and beyond "a few cock ups" In the US, this would be near instantly declared a mistrial.
Also, it's not Innocent.
Trials are either "Guilty" or "Not Guilty". This is an important distinction.
"Not Guilty" means that the prosecution failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did it. This means that they very well could have done it. But that doesn't matter. The ideal philosophy that any good Justice System operates under is "It's better for 100 guilty men to go free then for one innocent to be punished" Because otherwise it's easy for the courts to become a system to oppress the people.
for all the comradeship, Europe sure does love to "put them in their place" with the US every now and again, with their news anyway.
then again the whole tabloid thing in all of europe is just so atrocious, i just cannot believe it still exists
Jesus christ.
The communist bloc does not exist anymore - obviously. It was however defined by various absurdities, like shortages of random items, services not working, universal corruption of government ruling parties etc.
Calling Italy a second world nation seems an apt way of summarizing the level to which they've managed to sink their government. One would also note the original reason we called them second world was because the standard of living sucked compared to the first world, but was still better then dying in Rwanda.
Italy is Europe's Mexico. Only we don't need to build a fence because we have mountains.
You know Phoenix Wright?
Yeah, there's a reason for that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlUsiKfeDfo&eurl=http://areasofmyexpertise.blogspot.com/
http://www.ugo.com/movies/babylon-ad-video-gallery/?cur=vin-diesel-dungeons-and-dragons&morepics=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlUsiKfeDfo&eurl=http://areasofmyexpertise.blogspot.com/
http://www.ugo.com/movies/babylon-ad-video-gallery/?cur=vin-diesel-dungeons-and-dragons&morepics=1
Only via internet meme.
Ironyyyy:whistle:
(yeah not saying it's not terrible, just saying "our system is way better than that" I must eye roll at least a tiny bit)
- "Proving once again the deadliest animal of all ... is the Zoo Keeper" - Philip J Fry
First of all, she's white.
secondly, and on an actual serious note, Guantanamo gets military and prisoners of war in to the mix, which is a bit different from a civilian criminal trial.
Not that Guantanamo is okay in ANY regard, but you can't judge the American judicial system based on it because it is not representative.
But I agree these are not the same thing, but the outrage of the American media as though there was no internal precedent for this kind of treatment of foreign nationals is just hilariously ironic.
- "Proving once again the deadliest animal of all ... is the Zoo Keeper" - Philip J Fry
Gitmo is not ignored. One of the reasons the guy in the White House is there is because he promised to shut it down.
Also, two wrongs don't make a right.
And yes two wrongs don't make a right, I said an equivalent statement in my earlier post. Reading comprehension ftw.
- "Proving once again the deadliest animal of all ... is the Zoo Keeper" - Philip J Fry
but the people who are holding them are.
I realize that you are trying to make a point that America isn't perfect, but you are being willfully ignorant of some important distinctions in order to maintain that Gitmo is any sort of parallel to this case.
Gitmo is indeed an issue, but it's not an issue of the American Judicial system, it is an issue of OTHER American systems.
- "Proving once again the deadliest animal of all ... is the Zoo Keeper" - Philip J Fry
So wait, now you're upset because they are FINALY going to be treated properly?
Or, if your issue is purely semantic, then notice that when I typed out the phrase "prisoner of war" I deliberately went with little "p" little "w". I do not personally believe that many of these individuals were real enemy combantants, but when criticizing the JUDICIAL system, you need to recognize what decision they had NO PART IN because they were made by the MILITARY.
I feel like a broken record here. What you're doing is like blaming the FAA for a pothole. Yes, a pothole is bad, and yes, the FAA does deal with transportation, but in the individual case that you've selected, they simply aren't the authority in charge.
Had the prisoners at gitmo gotten regular trials, most of them would be in Jail/Death Row by now. Or released as there are several prisoners that caught up in sweeps and had nothing to do with Al Quaida.