LibrarianThe face of liberal fascismRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
Also, it is mentioned in the OP that the ex-husband/father also abused his daughters and that the mother acted the same way about it, that is, tried to cover it up or say that her children are lying.
So once before she took sides with an abusive husband, I see a pattern here.
Something made her change sides back then, but that might be because other people got involved, maybe she was shamed into acting in her children's favor.
From what you mentioned that case made court and he was convicted, did her initial refusal to believe her children get mentioned in the trial?
I'd say collect as much dirt on her as she is willing to fling your way, save those nasty emails when you get them.
If there are legal repercussions in the future that might help.
Other than that, I think it's best for you, your wife and the sisters to keep away from this family for now.
I think the behaviour the aunt is demonstrating right now is very inappropriate and petty, seems like her stance for now is either that she just wants to keep out of this and pretend everything is fine and dandy or that she really took sides with her sister and her husband.
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PasserbyeI am much older than you.in Beach CityRegistered Userregular
We've decided to take our own route. We haven't bought their presents yet and we're not the only ones who have been 'excluded from christmas'. Francine was excluded for the same reason as my wife and Harriot was excluded because she stood up for us.
With all this, we're going to use the money we would've spent on their gifts and have our own christmas celebration, it'll be the six of us (3 sisters and their SOs) but it'll be a good time nonetheless.
This seems like the root for the best overall solution, actually. Make a family of you, your wife, and her free sisters, and make what you can of that. Let the currently underage children know, if you can, that you're there for them. Do any court testifying that you need to. Other than that, act as though Alice and the rest of the crazies don't exist. If anything, they'll be wasting all their energy being angry and suspicious, while you'll be doing better each day. Just don't play into their 'cut off' games, don't respond outside of testifying at court. Part of why Alice is doing these things is to hurt your wife and her sisters; she probably gets a kick out of it, thinking it's some kind of control. Take away that control, and she has nothing left.
I want to offer my support and bow to you for not going crazy in what seems like the most extreme case of manipulation.
My thoughts are:
Don't brake the law in any way, this would give Alice such a strong manipulative hold over the entire situation, the good guys have to stay good.
I'm thinking if you really want to crack this thing open maybe its a good idea to hire a Private Investigator, what you need is real hard evidence of this abuse. You may already have some, you said Alice emailed you, bring these abusive emails to the attention of child services, voice mail messages? Any thing you can provide to back up your claims.
I know at times here in Australia the TV show Current Afair runs story's about abuse like this when the courts fail and people have no where to turn. I know this means people are going to get hurt, but at the moment people are being hurt in the dark. A TV crew in Alices face might make her or Brendon blow up, cause this facade of "All this Abuse talk is lies" to come crumbling down.
Maybe smuggle in phones to the children, tell them to call 911 (We are in America right?). I know it sounds sick but if the Law is going to do any thing forceful and expediently they have to see it happen. Photos of bruises and other injury's.
Bring Confidence and Self Esteem to the kids and bring pressure down on Alice and Brenden.
This might be bad advise, but I feel compassion for your situation and am pushing as much positive energy thought my internet connection towards you as I can.
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PasserbyeI am much older than you.in Beach CityRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
The suggestion of a private investigator is pretty good, along with documenting/recording any emails or phone messages. The more hard evidence of her insanity (and the abuse), the less it will matter that she's lying and convincing her children to lie as well.
What do I do? Is there anything I can do? I get so angry every time her mother pulls something new but I can't do anything.
The problem with these questions here is that you say you want to do something but you aren't telling us what result do you want. I mean you haven't told us you want a recipe for a pie, or advice on the children living with you mother in law.
If you want to rant for a bit that's fine (and understandable), but at the moment we aren't sure what you would like your solution to be.
I mean you and your wife could walk away, but that would not be very conductive to her siblings, or she could fight for custody of her sisters, or try and get Brandon charged again. There are a bunch of ways that this could end, but you haven't made it clear what you want in your posts.
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
edited December 2009
Just putting this out there: Alice keeps going "blah blah blah trying to take my children away"... I don't know how stable your situation is or how you feel about it, but have you two considered actually trying to take her children away? I realize that you would need to be financially and emotionally set up to do this, but it might be worth talking to a lawyer and seeing what it would take or if it's realistic to get custody of the younger children.
Because I agree, if there's real abuse in that house, they should not be allowed to stay.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
UPDATE: My wife's grandparents have no say in the matter, they haven't taken sides. This has eased my wife's tension quite a bit.
Okay, clarifications:
1) The siblings for those that are confused.
My wife (23)
Francine (22)
Harriot (21)
Living at home still:
Dennis (19 or 20)
Jasmine (16 or 17)
Elaine (14 or 15)
Irene (9 or 10)
2) While getting the children taken away is tempting I don't think, with the access we have, we could get the evidence. I believe the current court case is the first step towards helping them though as it forces irregular visits by a CAS agent to the house and forces Brandon to get psychological help. The fact he is resisting this doesn't help his side either. We also do not have the resources to take care of all four kids, we'd love to but it's not in the cards right now.
3) Jasmine's boyfriend apparently lives at their home too, I don't know what this means but with both him (being an outsider) and Dennis there (Dennis is a big guy now) I think the younger kids are temporarily safe.
4) We keep all the incriminating ammo Alice sends our way and have given it to lawyers in previous cases before. I've not attended these cases so I'm not sure what impact they had if any.
5) I'm not sure the result I want, I'd like some way to bring Alice and Brandon to justice or kill their influence upon the children and the family but I don't think that'll happen. I admit I've adjusted quite a bit since I posted the OP so I'm more or less happy with where we are now.
6) I'd like to note we never ever make an attempt to contact Alice or even give her the satisfaction of replying to the shit she pulls. She still makes regular attempts to pull this shit though, either someone in the family is informing her or she's just driven to try as much as hellishly possible.
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PasserbyeI am much older than you.in Beach CityRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
Sipex, would your wife's grandparents be any use in taking some of the kids? At least the youngest three (Jasmine, Elaine, and Irene)? I'm not really clear on how involved they are in Alice's crazytimes, but it sounds like they did try to get into contact with your wife on their own volition.
Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
As a suggestion.
Invite your grandparents to christmas then.
Have your christmas think the opposite of your Aunt's (so if they do dinner have a lunch, if they do lunch, do dinner) this way you can keep in contact with them and not seriously piss off your Aunt that you are "stealing" people away.
We'd love to but her grandparents are going away to see their son in another provice, one of the big reasons they're probably not involved at all.
On that note we can't use them to communicate with the children, they don't want to risk being cut off themselves and they're quite old. They just want to be able to see all their children/grand children until they die.
How do I update the title? I think this is as resolved as it's going to get.
We'd love to but her grandparents are going away to see their son in another provice, one of the big reasons they're probably not involved at all.
On that note we can't use them to communicate with the children, they don't want to risk being cut off themselves and they're quite old. They just want to be able to see all their children/grand children until they die.
How do I update the title? I think this is as resolved as it's going to get.
Go to your first post, click Edit and then on the next page click the button Go Advanced.
Posts
So once before she took sides with an abusive husband, I see a pattern here.
Something made her change sides back then, but that might be because other people got involved, maybe she was shamed into acting in her children's favor.
From what you mentioned that case made court and he was convicted, did her initial refusal to believe her children get mentioned in the trial?
I'd say collect as much dirt on her as she is willing to fling your way, save those nasty emails when you get them.
If there are legal repercussions in the future that might help.
Other than that, I think it's best for you, your wife and the sisters to keep away from this family for now.
I think the behaviour the aunt is demonstrating right now is very inappropriate and petty, seems like her stance for now is either that she just wants to keep out of this and pretend everything is fine and dandy or that she really took sides with her sister and her husband.
This seems like the root for the best overall solution, actually. Make a family of you, your wife, and her free sisters, and make what you can of that. Let the currently underage children know, if you can, that you're there for them. Do any court testifying that you need to. Other than that, act as though Alice and the rest of the crazies don't exist. If anything, they'll be wasting all their energy being angry and suspicious, while you'll be doing better each day. Just don't play into their 'cut off' games, don't respond outside of testifying at court. Part of why Alice is doing these things is to hurt your wife and her sisters; she probably gets a kick out of it, thinking it's some kind of control. Take away that control, and she has nothing left.
Face Twit Rav Gram
My thoughts are:
Don't brake the law in any way, this would give Alice such a strong manipulative hold over the entire situation, the good guys have to stay good.
I'm thinking if you really want to crack this thing open maybe its a good idea to hire a Private Investigator, what you need is real hard evidence of this abuse. You may already have some, you said Alice emailed you, bring these abusive emails to the attention of child services, voice mail messages? Any thing you can provide to back up your claims.
I know at times here in Australia the TV show Current Afair runs story's about abuse like this when the courts fail and people have no where to turn. I know this means people are going to get hurt, but at the moment people are being hurt in the dark. A TV crew in Alices face might make her or Brendon blow up, cause this facade of "All this Abuse talk is lies" to come crumbling down.
Maybe smuggle in phones to the children, tell them to call 911 (We are in America right?). I know it sounds sick but if the Law is going to do any thing forceful and expediently they have to see it happen. Photos of bruises and other injury's.
Bring Confidence and Self Esteem to the kids and bring pressure down on Alice and Brenden.
This might be bad advise, but I feel compassion for your situation and am pushing as much positive energy thought my internet connection towards you as I can.
Face Twit Rav Gram
The problem with these questions here is that you say you want to do something but you aren't telling us what result do you want. I mean you haven't told us you want a recipe for a pie, or advice on the children living with you mother in law.
If you want to rant for a bit that's fine (and understandable), but at the moment we aren't sure what you would like your solution to be.
I mean you and your wife could walk away, but that would not be very conductive to her siblings, or she could fight for custody of her sisters, or try and get Brandon charged again. There are a bunch of ways that this could end, but you haven't made it clear what you want in your posts.
Satans..... hints.....
Because I agree, if there's real abuse in that house, they should not be allowed to stay.
Okay, clarifications:
1) The siblings for those that are confused.
My wife (23)
Francine (22)
Harriot (21)
Living at home still:
Dennis (19 or 20)
Jasmine (16 or 17)
Elaine (14 or 15)
Irene (9 or 10)
2) While getting the children taken away is tempting I don't think, with the access we have, we could get the evidence. I believe the current court case is the first step towards helping them though as it forces irregular visits by a CAS agent to the house and forces Brandon to get psychological help. The fact he is resisting this doesn't help his side either. We also do not have the resources to take care of all four kids, we'd love to but it's not in the cards right now.
3) Jasmine's boyfriend apparently lives at their home too, I don't know what this means but with both him (being an outsider) and Dennis there (Dennis is a big guy now) I think the younger kids are temporarily safe.
4) We keep all the incriminating ammo Alice sends our way and have given it to lawyers in previous cases before. I've not attended these cases so I'm not sure what impact they had if any.
5) I'm not sure the result I want, I'd like some way to bring Alice and Brandon to justice or kill their influence upon the children and the family but I don't think that'll happen. I admit I've adjusted quite a bit since I posted the OP so I'm more or less happy with where we are now.
6) I'd like to note we never ever make an attempt to contact Alice or even give her the satisfaction of replying to the shit she pulls. She still makes regular attempts to pull this shit though, either someone in the family is informing her or she's just driven to try as much as hellishly possible.
Face Twit Rav Gram
Invite your grandparents to christmas then.
Have your christmas think the opposite of your Aunt's (so if they do dinner have a lunch, if they do lunch, do dinner) this way you can keep in contact with them and not seriously piss off your Aunt that you are "stealing" people away.
Satans..... hints.....
On that note we can't use them to communicate with the children, they don't want to risk being cut off themselves and they're quite old. They just want to be able to see all their children/grand children until they die.
How do I update the title? I think this is as resolved as it's going to get.
Go to your first post, click Edit and then on the next page click the button Go Advanced.