Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!
Santa Claus: Do/Should you let your kids believe in him?
saint2e
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
This topic came up with a friend of mine yesterday, and I was thinking about it this morning in the shower, as I am wont to do about random topics.
His argument was that "lying" to kids about Santa "causes more problems than it solves". My question to him was "what problems are Santa Claus supposed to solve?", but that's a tangent. Basically what I gleamed his stance to be is that children believing in Santa Claus does more harm than good.
And I can see his side of things:
There are many others.
The other side is that it gives kids a sense of wonder. Many argue that childhood is an age that is shortening as years go by, so why not have them believe in something magical for a while? Fantasy and imagination are wonderful things for a child to have, and believing in Santa helps perpetuate those things.
I've run out of steam with my OP here, as I'm on a quick break from work.
But to those who celebrate Christmas, what do you do with your kids, or if you don't have any kids yet, what will you do with your kids?
His argument was that "lying" to kids about Santa "causes more problems than it solves". My question to him was "what problems are Santa Claus supposed to solve?", but that's a tangent. Basically what I gleamed his stance to be is that children believing in Santa Claus does more harm than good.
And I can see his side of things:
- You're lying to your kids
- You're using their sense of wonderment as a means to control them (Be good, or Santa won't bring you presents)
- Materialism is encouraged at a young age
There are many others.
The other side is that it gives kids a sense of wonder. Many argue that childhood is an age that is shortening as years go by, so why not have them believe in something magical for a while? Fantasy and imagination are wonderful things for a child to have, and believing in Santa helps perpetuate those things.
I've run out of steam with my OP here, as I'm on a quick break from work.
But to those who celebrate Christmas, what do you do with your kids, or if you don't have any kids yet, what will you do with your kids?
saint2e on
Posts
I think in a lot of ways, Santa Claus is like training wheels for later belief in God.
He knows who is naughty and who is nice; he even keeps a list. Only the good kids are rewarded.
Santa Claus violates the laws of nature and physics, and his myths adherents can freely cook up any ad-hoc “logical” exception to validate arguments to his existence. i.e. “Santa Claus can visit every single child in a single 8-hour period because he has the power to bend time and space.” (Sort of like how there doesn’t have to be any evidence for God’s existence because he’s outside of space, time, and logic.)
The Santa Claus myth, like the God myth, often serves as a kind of “glue” that holds together social structures (“family gatherings wouldn’t be the same without Santa!”). It’s also, like Christianity, been totally co-opted by dominant political powers (in this case, corporate America).
Also look at the similarities between how Santa-believers and God-believers criticize unbelievers/atheists. We’re “grinches” who only want to push our viewpoints even if it ruins Christmas/makes religious people feel bad.
Also, the way the Santa Claus myth is wielded by society's power elite is similar to the way religion is wielded. I think the myth does real harm—not because kids are traumatized when they find out it’s BS, but rather because it supports and perpetuates America’s consumer-whore culture.
For many people, Christmas is just this compulsion to buy shit nobody needs for people who don’t actually want anything. It is the only thing that perpetuates these ridiculous markets of pointless cookware, ties, bad DVD’s, and other useless chachkee detritus of human industry. In fact, there are many businesses that lose money throughout the year except before Christmas, because the only people who buy their wares are people who are buying them as gifts for other people, out of a “religious” compulsion.
I think this commercial, consumer-driven culture has done real harm to our society in the past 50 years. And Christmas’ secular Santa mythology is really its driving force.
Besides, whenever my mom had a meeting, my dad told us she went to China and was never coming back. We got the pattern eventually.
http://troublethinking.wordpress.com (Updated Wed) http://twitter.com/#!/Durandal4532
That's sort of a broad statement, isn't it? Are you sure you don't want to add some qualifiers?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
I personally love Christmas, at least the secular part of it, and there is nothing cuter than a little kid who is so excited about Santa coming, putting cookies and milk out, and then waking up early to see all the presents Santa brought. It only lasts a couple years and I really don't see any harm.
I don't think there's really anything wrong with NOT doing Santa, either, but I don't think that that parent's who look at as "not wanting to lie to kids" are really looking at it the right way. There's something to be said for fostering that sense of wonder that all kids have, and letting them grow out of it on their own.
If you want, I could say "there is nothing wrong with adolescents under the age of eight holding a belief in something that, while factually and logically suspect, does not, in the end, do much harm, or lead to brainwashing," but it wouldn't have had quite the same zest of language, and I think most people can generally pick out that I don't include murder fantasy fairy tales and magical resurrection scrolls under that header.
Yeah, this was exactly my experience, and I was eight or younger. Found my presents in the attic on accident.
I was kind of like "oh
its a great little system.
I dunno, I think it's pretty important that your kid be able to tell reality from fantasy. Explain to them that it's all just 'make-believe', I think they would still be able to enjoy the holiday and the billion christmas specials,parades,etc.
Though to this day, inevitably one or two presents under the tree will be from 'Santa'.
But damn it was hilarious when, at the Christian school I was attending, a man in a Santa suit had his car break down. He came into the only building nearby looking for help. The children were scandalized; almost as much as the teachers! The very agent of deceit had opted to walk through our halls! How could this be?
Good times.
And then tell him about how that all happened.
http://troublethinking.wordpress.com (Updated Wed) http://twitter.com/#!/Durandal4532
Then he can be like me in elementary school.
TRUE STORY: One day a teacher of mine happened to accidentally mix some colors together, got maroon out of it. I recognized the color and said so. The teacher didn't. "What maroon? Somebody was marooned on an island?"
If I can get my nephew to completely bewilder one of his teachers by bringing up 'Nicholas of Myra', that will be a good day.
Let kids have their fun, even if it's believing in stupid made-up stuff for a while. They're kids.
Destroying joyful fantasies like that in kids does nothing but make the adult feel self-important.
I used to play Harry Potter when I was younger - my best friend and I made wands and everything! But apparently magic doesn't exist so this is not kosher behaviour for a kid or? Honestly, cynical kids are incredibly scary.
In other news, I was always very creeped out by Santa. I didn't like sitting in a total strangers lap and I was generally uncomfortable around it all, I did on the other hand enjoy the shit out of Christmas but am happy that we (as a family) don't dress up someone as Santa or anything like that to give our presents away - it's much nicer this way.
Despite my belief in Santa I'd like to think I turned out alright, plus I'm an atheist so it's not like Santa predisposed me to belief in other absurdities. If you never go to church/talk about deities in daily family life your kids won't be religious - they have no reason to be such.
Not only will I "lie" to my kids about Santa Claus, I will do so gleefully.
What are you people implying?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
That Tim Allen really is Santa Claus.
There's a difference. Nobody's saying only allow your kid to play in an ultra-realistic setting. But I'm guessing when you played Harry Potter you were well aware that magic didn't actually exist and those wands weren't real.
Santa isn't real?
No, they were pretty real and we stunned each other with them as well. Massively awesome times were had.
You see, there's thing called an imagination. Video games and TV are already doing massive disfavours to children across the world by killing it, you don't need to help them by not allowing them to believe in fairy tales and magic.
Also if I kids I am going to fuck with their tiny little heads so they end up believing all kinds of shit. This will be all kinds of awesome because even when they become teens, I'll retain the authority of being a doctor (I hope by then) if not a parent :3
Oh, the lies and misinformation I will spread~
If you're bad you won't get any presents! . . . Oh yeah, plus if your poor. You won't get any presents then either.
I guess that counts as being "bad" too.
Seems a bit much to thrust Calvinism and predestination on young kids.
No, he is but only if you believe hard enough.
I think what I'm trying to say is that my inner child is dead.
So none of you ever said "Avada Kedavra"?
No, cause that was an evil spell. There was a lot of expelliarmus, stupify (or whatever the spell was), and that completely body immobilising one.
Oh, and lumos for dark places.
Speaking about Krampus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EmqsEHl3P8
Freaky as shit, I will not expose my kid to this.
It pretty much comes down to a lying thing. Why lie to your kids for a holiday? It just seems stupid. Kids can have imaginations and enjoy fairy tales without needing to believe that they are true.
Backloggery XBox Live 3DS: 1805-2274-4550 (Jonathan)
Nothing is creepier than the Invader Zim Christmas special.
The way our world works, kids don't have a lot of time to actually be kids. Our schools are increasingly prison like, lessons are increasingly devoid of anything resembling enjoyment, and much of the media we aim at our children is becoming extraordinarily vapid.
So hell yes, I'm going to be telling my kids that Santa Claus exists, not so that I can threaten them with the naughty/nice list, but so I can preserve something of the mystery that exists for children. There will be plenty of time for them to be disillusioned, for them to learn that their heroes are deeply flawed, and that all too often there are no good solutions for horrible problems. During my youth, and that of my sister, my parents told us that Santa Claus existed. To this day, I still receive presents addressed from Santa Claus. Even when the myth is exposed, there's still something about the jolly old elf that enlivens Christmas.
Not to mention, I'd never contradict this.
If faith is just a silent tribute, mine is just a desperate act.
Hey, spoilers!
So when my daughter started growing skeptical ("Wait, how can he fit through the chimney when it's so small?" "What about houses that have no chimneys?" "Hold on, he goes to every house in the world in one night?") we asked her what she thought. Does it seem reasonable? Does the idea of Santa make sense? She decided it didn't, and we told her that no, Santa doesn't really exist. And at that point, we told her about St. Nicholas, how Santa was based on a real person who used to give gifts, showed her the Wikipedia page for St. Nick and different facts about him.
Funny thing - she found out before Christmas last year that Santa wasn't real. This year, she was really sad that he was made-up. She was upset that we told her the truth so soon, because it was such fun to believe in Santa. She's jealous of her brother, who still believes (well, as much as a two year old can believe in something), because he'll be able to enjoy the fun of make-believe while she has to know the truth. She wishes we'd waited another year or two to let her know.
A couple days ago, she asked about the Tooth Fairy - is she real? I asked her if she really wanted to know the truth. She said yes, she wanted the truth, but she also communicated that she really didn't. She wanted to believe a little longer. So I told her the Tooth Fairy was real. She was quite happy, even if deep down she knows that's not really true.
I think that a lot of kids are sort of like Maddie, in that they want a chance to hold on to these myths for a little while. They want the fun of make-believe, they want the mythology to seem real. I just also think there comes a time when the child is ready to know the truth, and that pushing for fantasy past this time is a bad idea.
Maddie: "I am not!"
Riley: "You're a marsupial!"
Maddie: "I am a placental mammal!"