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[DnD 4E Discussion] 2010 the year of the Dark Sun begins!

AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
edited January 2010 in Critical Failures
SantaChuul.jpg

It's giftmas time of year now! Come boys and girls and sit in Santa Chuuls lap! If you're been good you might get a present! If you've been bad you might get hit with both claw attacks and grabbed, then a secondary attack to be immobilized and then lunch begins! How do you know if you've been naughty or nice? Only Santa Chuul knows and he's a lobster from the plane of madness!

And now his friend the Illithid is stealing Lolthmas, the fiend:

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ITT people try to tell you the way you like to pretend playing as a fantasy elf or dwarf is wrong. Plus you're probably a jerk. Why are you such a jerk?

Here is a Dungeon:

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Here is a Dragon:

Dragon.jpg

Hence the name. Also, as a bonus picture here is Bane.

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He's so dreamy <3

And no, he's not going anywhere from the OP. He wants you to love his manly pectoral muscles, his huge thigh muscles and bulging tip of the long hard shaft of his spear. Wizards even has a wallpaper of him, clearly showing they do seem to understand the joke at work here.

Speaking of before we go any further here, want to get the perfect way of starting 4E? Don't know where to go though? Try Wizards generously offering both a revised and improved version of Keep on the Shadowfell and the Quickstart rules? What will this cost you?

Absolutely nothing as it's completely free. Download them here.


Dungeons and Dragons is a pretty old game, originally being created by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson in 1974, both of whom have passed way now. Since then it's had various iterations and editions, with the latest edition being 4th edition, published by Wizards of the Coast. The basic rules consist of three books:

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As the name suggests, this is for players and also details the games core rules like combat.

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This book details the various monsters and other things that populate the worlds of most DnD worlds.

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This is for the DM and contains useful things like how much experience you have to make an encounter, treasure tables and rules for creating your own monsters.

If you want to play DnD, you usually only need the players hand book. Running a game requires those base three books.

Some stuff shamelessly stolen from the original post about the races and classes you can play as in the Players Hand Book, with some additions about the PHB2 races and classes by Terrendos.
First off, races now provide only benefits and no negatives.

Here are the PHB I races:
Spoiler:

We also have a bunch of new races now since PHB II came out
Spoiler:

And now DDI is adding a few more to the game as well.
Spoiler:

And if that wasn't exciting enough, we have PHB 3 races on top of that! We're just getting absolutely spoiled now:
Spoiler:

Then there are the races from the campaign setting books. First Forgotten Realms:
Spoiler:

And the Eberron players guide added a bunch of them as well.
Spoiler:

Introducing the Classes:

Every class now has a "Role" within the party, and a party is recommended to have every role represented to succeed, though it need not have to. It is considered "pro" to have proper party balance.
Spoiler:

We also have some new PHB II classes just to add to the excitement and the EPG has the artificer!
Spoiler:

finally last but not least is the new DDI exclusive class, the Assassin
Spoiler:

DM/Player Tools and Helpful Links

D&D Insider Subscriptions

D&D Insider has gone into subscription beta mode. What that means is, for three preset payment structures, you can access all of the online content Wizards is producing exclusively for Insider members without restriction. There are currently demos available for all the previously released content, listed below:

More and more exclusive content will be added each month. Also, Insider subscribers will be included along with those who signed up at D&D Convention events in the closed beta testing for the new Character Builder application, the next tool on the slate to be released for the Insider. So, what are the prices, you ask?
  • $71.40 for 12 months - $5.95 per month
  • $23.85 for 3 months - $7.95 per month
  • $9.95 for month

To subscribe to the D&D Insider service, click here. Prices went up in July, seems about a dollar an issue for a 12 month subscription.

You can find screenshots of the Character builder here.

Thanks Goose and Terrendos!

Aegeri on
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Posts

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    A lot of stuff has been released currently as well and I have most (actually all) of it, so I'll give some minor thoughts on each and update as stuff comes out:

    Campaign Settings

    Forgotten Realms

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    Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide
    Forgotten Realms Players Guide
    Scepter Tower of Spellgard

    This was the first of the campaign settings released for 4E Dungeons and Dragons about a yearish or so ago. It marks a significant departure from the previous editions versions of the Forgotten Realms, which is either something people hate a lot, are indifferent to or quite like. It has enough detail that any new DM will find it a useful resource for making a campaign and providing an overall world to set that campaign in. It does not have the depth of lore or similar that previous editions have had, which is what leads to a lot of the negativity surrounding the setting. The players guide IMO is a useful resource even if you don't actually like the realms as a setting. Although a fair chunk of the book is dedicated to the FR, the Swordmage, races (Drow and Genasi) and feats make it a worthwhile purchase for anyone.

    The adventure is decent quality, but requires a lot of work compared to the 'core' adventure series to get fully implemented into a campaign. It also starts at level 2, which is a real pain for DMs wanting to just jump right into a 4E campaign with the adventure and some fresh level 1 PCs. We have a thread for FR as well here.

    Eberron

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    Eberron Campaign Guide
    Eberron Players Guide
    Seekers of the Ashen Crown

    We have a thread for Eberron related things here.

    Eberron is the second setting released and it's pretty good IMO (maybe I am biased though if you read my campaign threads on this forum). It has a lot of solid themes to the game, as it's based heavily on a kind of pulp action + noir feel that really does work. The books are absolutely gorgeous and especially the main campaign guide is worth mentioning, because the cartography of the map of the world is truly great and its packed full of great ideas and detail about Eberron. It is definitely around the top books released for 4E so far IMO. Like with FR, I feel the EPG is really worth buying as well just for the extra feats and mechanics (dragonmark feats are easily applied to other settings with little mechanical fiddling). I will say though some DMs may not like the more "magitech" feel to the Eberron specific Warforged race and Artificer class, so make sure you check with your DM before buying this for your FR or whatever setting game.

    Once again though I must complain that the adventure starts at level 2. Why on earth do they do that? It's very good though and it's a fun adventure, but I still wish they would make these adventures from level 1 so you can jump right into the fun without having to make further encounters (or starting your PCs at level 2).

    Dark Sun

    dark_sun_cg_b1y.jpg

    Dark Sun Campaign Setting
    Dark Sun Creature Catalog
    Marauders of the Dune Sea (Adventure).

    The 2010 campaign setting and boy does it look like a doozy! It looks and sounds like they are doing some major changes to this setting for 4E, not just in changes from its original 2E incarnation but how they approach the setting from a 4E design standpoint. One particularly interesting thing with this particular setting is that it does not having a player specific book, instead it goes with a campaign guide that suggests changes to existing races and its second book is a creature catalog of nasty beasts. Personally I like this idea and am interested to see how it ends up working when it is released.

    Released books

    Adventurers Vault

    This is an excellent book for anyone, with a huge swathe of new awesome magical items and other things to bling your characters out with (or so you don't find yourself handing out bags of holding every single game as a DM because you can't think of anything else). This is a fantastic book.

    Draconomicon

    This is an excellent DM resource or just for anyone who loves dragons as well (It has some great artwork in it IMO). A nice smattering of new monsters, especially in the heroic tier as well as new options, new chromatic dragons and ideas for running encounters with Dragons. I highly recommend this book for any DM, but it doesn't have much utility for players.

    Manual of the Planes

    Good resource for DMs and a useful introduction to the planes. There is a new "race", Bladeling in the book and some Paragon Paths, but I wouldn't buy this if you're a player primarily. The book makes a lot of assumptions about the cosmology that may conflict with the Forgotten Realms and Eberron as well, which can make life something confusing if you're using those settings. Despite this, it's still useful and will provide plenty of ideas for running planar campaigns.

    Martial Power

    This is the best supplement for players released since 4E came out. Has a lot of new, interesting and fun options for martial characters, namely Fighters, Rangers, Rogues and Warlords. Good balance as well and has lots of great new paragon paths and more. I can recommend this book to absolutely anyone.

    Open Grave

    IMO, hands down the best supplement for DMs released thus far if you want your campaigns to have anything at all to do with the undead. Good adventure hooks, a wide array of excellent new monsters from filling out low level undead to providing even more high level undead monstrosities, this is an absolutely terrific book. Of course, if you don't like the undead much you won't find anything of interest in here and in a similar manner to the Draconomicon, there is nothing here for people playing in games to really make much use out of.

    Dungeon Delve

    Delayed somewhat and contains a large bunch of adventures of various levels and such. Is actually fairly interesting and really handy if you need an adventure now to put into your game in rapid time. I recommend this actually, especially if you have a collection of Dungeon Tiles.

    Players Hand Book II

    I think this was a big moment for 4E in many ways, a really good balanced and thought out book would vindicate many of the decisions in 4E as well as really add some more depth and variation. A bad book however would probably really derail the success 4E has enjoyed thus far and the general verdict is it's an excellent book. It's well balanced with the first book, a couple of feats and epic destinies aside but everything in general is really well thought out: most especially the new classes are great and so are the new races. It's really added a lot to the game and IMO is one of the best supplements (and most important) supplements in 4E. I would almost say if you're a player this book is as much a must have as the original.

    Arcane Power

    This is an excellent book if you like the pew pew style of classes. The summoning wizard is a great option and the new wizard at-wills are amazingly good. Tomes are a terrific new addition to implements and every arcane class got some more new and awesome feats, powers and paragon paths. I highly recommend this book, but be aware that like Martial Power there are some things in here just a bit out of whack power wise. Nothing game breaking though, but certainly more powerful than core book options.

    Monster Manual 2

    Overall this is a very solid book and seems to have taken some new directions with regards to solos and minions. Solos have less HP and defenses, but do more damage and seem to have more actions per round. Minions have been given control functions or do plain annoying things on death (like immobolise whoever killed them). Has a bit of a sense of humor as well compared with other supplements (Bullywug and such are notable for being a bit out there).

    Divine Power

    This has given a really substantial power increase to divine classes (for example Clerics now clearly rule the roost in terms of healing potential), Strength paladins now don't suck as much and it again provides lots of new options. It does feel a little on the power creep side in some ways though.

    Adventurers Vault 2

    This is a pretty solid book in terms of new magic stuff. It doesn't manage to go as overboard in my opinion with the power levels of many items as the original adventurers vault did as well. There are always going to be specific items that will be problematic in certain campaigns, but it's a nice addition and can really expand the variety of items you can give out to your PCs.

    Dragon Magazine Annual

    I don't own this and yes I know it's a 4E book that I don't own so I am epic failing, but it is my understanding this has some changes and altered material from stuff previous published in Dungeon (Punisher of the Gods got some alterations I hear). The articles in it are some pretty decent ones though, so if you want a print version of some of the better dragon articles I would suggest getting it. Or just get a subscription and get more stuff for cheaper - I dunno (I'm trying to sound unbiased but I don't really see the advantage in this over getting a subscription for a month and downloading the compiled issues).

    Dungeon Masters Guide 2

    This is a really nice book, detailing updated skill challenges, adding some new options for campaigns that want to reduce the number of magical items (temporary boons for example) and has a wonderful section on Sigil: City of Doors for planar based campaigns. The updated monster creation guidelines are also very appreciated and this is a really solid book if you're running any game of DnD.

    Primal Power

    This is basically the same sort of affair as all the other "X power" books. Most of the new options are pretty good from a cursory look and its definitely added some more versatility to some classes that needed it a bit like druids. The new swarm druid build is pretty good and everyone who wanted Diablo 2 like dual weapon barbarians will certainly be pleased.

    Draconomicon 2

    This is an excellent book of as high quality (or better) than the original Draconomicon. Lots of references to the Catastrophic dragons in this book as well and it's pretty clear it works as a resource to be used in conjunction with the original book. The new metallics are very nice, one of which has an interesting breath weapon that makes a minion and it does indeed have stats for Bahamut. Expect someone bored to put a fight club with Bahamut vs. Tiamat - though Bahamuts 2 levels may be the key difference. It also has a big bunch of other monsters and indeed is a great resource for DMs.

    The Plane Below: Secrets of the Elemental Chaos

    Plane Below is very awesome, though some of the monsters don't come off as well as I would like. But once again it's another source book jam packed with useful information and should find a use in any paragon/epic campaign. It doesn't really feel like something you can easily use in heroic tier though.

    Players Handbook Races: Dragonborn

    I've not got this or read it, any comments on this book would be appreciated.

    Underdark

    Still reading through this, but my impression is that it's really good and you can make doors with giant teeth and such. Plus it has one of the most horrific pieces of art in 4E DnD.

    Released Adventures

    The H series of adventures are essentially dungeon crawls with varying quality. To be honest, you're expected to do the footwork in writing the background and story for many of these, which are often somewhat flimsy.

    H1: Keep on the Shadowfell

    This is a straightforward dungeon crawl. It's worth noting that it can be downloaded for free now and in an updated form here! Like many of the adventures in this series, I am certainly not kidding when I say that it really is a very long dungeon crawl. It has a lot of combat encounters and a loose story connecting them, so it does require some work in that department. Still the fold out maps are nice and its a decent adventure (especially with the improvements in the downloadable version).

    H2: Thunderspire Labyrinth

    This is a really solid adventure and is one I enjoyed a lot. It's again, a dungeon crawl (but you should expect that from all of these) but has some really fun encounters and some interesting traps.

    H3: Pyramid of Shadows

    Personally this is the one I didn't really like all that much after running it. Although it's a zany adventure it has a few problems with some encounters being fairly poorly balanced and I felt it was way to long to have my PCs stuck somewhere. I ended up cutting it short by a lot.

    P1: King of the Trollhaunt Warrens

    This was a really fun adventure and was a good introduction to the paragon tier. I also liked the backstory behind it and the general design of the dungeons. It also has by far one of the most useful maps that I own, which is a small section of a town.

    P2: The Demon Queen's Enclave

    Again I really enjoyed this map and the backstabbing between the various Drow factions and politics that you can potentially insert (if you so desire). It has my least favourite of the fold out maps, but still a nice adventure anyway and they really are doing well with making interesting encounters.

    P3: Assault on Nightwyrm Fortress.

    One of the main reasons for buying this was so I could see the stats of Shadow Dragons and while they are okay, they don't really do enough damage and can be very tedious to fight (blinding people constantly for example). The adventure itself is still pretty nice though and I approve of it.

    E1: Deaths Reach.

    I haven't really had a lot of time to read this in depth!

    E2: Kingdom of the Ghouls.

    By far, this has the greatest final encounter in any of the modules that I've seen. It's also awesome all the way through and is by far and away my most favourite module out of this series.

    E3: Prince of Undeath

    This is the final of the adventures and should be coming out next month; highlight is new (hopefully non-sucky) stats for Orcus. I am very curious to see if Orcus has friends or not for that fight and its EL. Personally I must concede that I am going to be buying this partly for the new Orcus stats. It's out next month =D

    There is also another series of adventures coming out after this starting next year.

    There are also larger "super" adventures too.

    Revenge of the Giants

    Oddly this was a hardcover book compared with the previous softcovers for the other adventures. It's a very nice adventure though, has a good length and can be easily adapted to fit into FR or Eberron. Personally I will be running this in my IRL game later on in the year because I like it sufficiently enough. I am hoping the Tomb of Horrors super adventure is of similar quality.

    Upcoming Stuff

    Martial Power 2
    Players Handbook 3
    The Plane Above: Secrets of the Astral Sea
    Hammerfast
    HS1: The Slaying Stone
    Players Strategy Guide. This is notable again because it has art from Gabe of this forum for it. I'll probably be buying it for that. Yeah I'm such a whore, WHATEVER.
    Monster Manual 3
    Players Handbook Races: Tiefling
    Demonomicon
    Dungeon Master's Guide 3
    Vor Rukoth
    Tomb of Horrors
    Gamma World

    Future Release Speculation and Rumours

    There was a release schedule for late next year published as well, which includes the Monster Manual 3 (with Lloth apparently in it, making a good trio of high level Daemons - albeit Lloth is also a God so I am curious how powerful she will be in comparison).

    There will be a book on Daemons later next year probably in the line of Open Grave or Draconomicon. Personally that is the book I am looking forward to the most.

    Gamma World, which is a pretty zany sounding card based way of playing a "DnD 4E light" type game will be out later in the year.

    Useful Stuff Provided By Wizards and other people

    To go with some of the links provided from the previous threads, Wizards have an Art and Map Gallery here. This is free and provides a lot of useful maps and art for use in your games to pillage at will. The OP dungeon is shamelessly stolen from there ;)

    Additionally I recommend this site, which has a wide collection of fantasy art and such forth. Some of it is distinctly NSFW however, so consider yourself warned. They love naked women.

    Another useful site is the Cartographers Guild forums. Many talented map artists at this site who make a range of maps, both large scale continental maps, town maps and dungeon maps. Some of the maps here IMO are a bit too fancy, with excessive mapsizes for use with maptools but there are some real gems on here as well. Incidentally, the guy who did the cartography for the Cormyr article in Dragon Magazine posts here as well. Here's an example.

    Infidel has provided us with a handy 4E stat calculator. Especially useful if you don't have the character builder to do it for you. The most common problem I find with 4E games is people messing up their initial point buy by a couple of points. In an unexpected twist, this is because some people tend to give themselves less points overall and accidentally gimp their character as opposed to going over the limit.

    He's also produced a handy online character sheet device, which can be found here. Seems to work pretty well and is very handy and is even becoming a popular alternative to Mythweavers around these forums.

    Cheap miniatures seems to come up quite often in the thread, given that a good mini or three can make 4E a lot easier to run (probably an understatement). One place to get them is ebay, but the number and quality (even type) may be hit and miss. Another online seller of DDM is Dragon Justice, which sometimes has a good range and sometimes not. Really if you look around online you can get a good bunch of models for a fairly cheap price.

    There is a general campaign design and advice thread that I have been writing for a while over here. If you're a new DM this might be worth checking out.

    Finally, a major collection of the games errata was released recently in a big PDF from wizards that you can get here.

    Also, as a reminder, don't discuss pirating books in this thread. It's not going to get you anything except some infractions and probably a ban. So just don't. Plus Chris Perkins is totally going to come around to your house and ruin your shit. Not to mention eat your dinner and steal your dice.

    We have a general CF IRC channel too if you're that way inclined. You'll need some chat client to use it, or something.

    irc.slashnet.org
    #criticalfailure


    Apparently this was SUPERSAGAs idea.

    Penny-Arcade Podcast series!

    Also, given this forum is Penny-Arcade we should in fact note that Gabe and Tycho, Scott Kurtz of PVP and after the first series Wil Wheaton sat down and played some DnD together and recorded it. There are currently three seasons and you can find links to download them all below for much good times. This is a good way of getting new people interested in DnD I've found as well.

    Series 1: Part one. Part two. Part Three. Part four. Part five. Part six. Part seven. Part eight.

    Series 2: Part one. Part two. Part three. Part four. Part five. Part six. Part seven. Part eight.

    Series 3: Part one. Part two. Part three. Part four. Part five. Part Six. Part Seven. Part Eight.

  • smeejsmeej Registered User
    edited December 2009
    Posting to say BARDENT.

    I sing songs directly into your brain. And all I sing is Journey.

    "The [Great] Wheel in the sky keeps on turnin'..."

    IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!
  • FencingsaxFencingsax Bondage Discipline Spider-Man Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Livin' on a Prayer?

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it
  • psolmspsolms Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    has there been any word on when/if there will be another series of the podcast?

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Not that I know of I'm afraid. I wonder how they would follow that up though.

    Hopefully with some Lava to go with the Acid.

  • SaurfangSaurfang Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    So, dis monster.... how might I improve it?
    Spoiler:

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    That could be interesting, depending on how the PCs handle it and the ability to destroy the protoplasm is interesting. Bear in mind the obvious question that comes up is how does a protoplasms wording on attacking it affect burst and area affects that target it and the host. Does the host potentially get hit twice?

    Giving Kraj encounter powers from a PC is also really risky, at-wills are okay to an extent although I can't quite see how this thing will make use of weapon powers or similar. It also adds tricky problems like deciding what damage the power does and similar, as you will pretty much have to make it up on the spot. It's better to keep it at boosting the creatures actions by giving it a standard action, rather than doing it that way which will require on the fly conversion during the game on your part.

    Otherwise it looks fairly solid. I would give it blindsight and the blind keyword as well.

  • SaurfangSaurfang Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Swell advice. I think I'll stat out its tentacle appendage as a weapon and reduce its power stealing to at-wills; I just realized that the barghest, whom I stole the power-stealing concept from, has a weapon already, which negates the question on its part. Also, I'll probably specify that melee or ranged attacks that miss the little blobs will hit the player so they aren't punished by using area/burst attacks.

  • hippofanthippofant Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Silly question:

    What happens to a creature from the Astral Sea who worships a god when it dies? So this angel from Celestia comes to the prime material... gets killed... then is returned to Celestia? That kinda makes it immortal, doesn't it? (Okay, angels are immortal, but you get what I'm saying here...) Does it just never die until its patron god can't or chooses not to reclaim its soul from The Raven Queen?

  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I need to do a decent write-up of last night's session for my IRL campaign, but suffice to say my custom monsters worked mostly as intended and everyone had a lot of fun. I finally got to pull off the delve I had thought up months and months ago, and the party really ate it up and made it their own.

    In a nutshell, the search for the other half of the inscribed amulet has lead the three-character party to the home of a wizard. Upon entering, they are begrudgingly beckoned by an unseen voice to sit sitting down in an otherwise empty dining room, at a large table with six full place settings and a piping-hot banquet, complete with roast turkey.

    They hardly get a chance to sit and start explaining themselves when this encounter breaks out:
    Spoiler:

    And it only got more ridiculous. Hightlight had to have been kicking the wizard out of the painting.

    hmm.gif
  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Yes. Depending on sources and such, an planar creature that is killed on the prime material is simply sent back to its home plane/astral sea/abyss whatever depending on what it is. This is why it's so hard to kill daemons even when they step onto the prime material, destroying it simply sends it back to the abyss until it can reform after a lot of brooding and plotting to homicidally murder your ancestors 100s of years from now.

    Angels are similar, if they are destroyed on the prime material they go back to the astral sea to reform or the domain of whatever God created them. Noting that in 4E it may have taken a different idea of this now, but I've always like that fluff enough that it's the way they operate in my games.

  • hippofanthippofant Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Yes. Depending on sources and such, an planar creature that is killed on the prime material is simply sent back to its home plane/astral sea/abyss whatever depending on what it is. This is why it's so hard to kill daemons even when they step onto the prime material, destroying it simply sends it back to the abyss until it can reform after a lot of brooding and plotting to homicidally murder your ancestors 100s of years from now.

    Angels are similar, if they are destroyed on the prime material they go back to the astral sea to reform or the domain of whatever God created them. Noting that in 4E it may have taken a different idea of this now, but I've always like that fluff enough that it's the way they operate in my games.

    Welp. Guess I don't have to be concerned about my party killing a young mithral dragon.

    (That shit looks like so much fun to run as a DM. Teleport 10!)

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    They are kind of grindy as they don't deal a lot of damage by themselves and lack attacks. They are good with friends though because they can port around picking off enemies that have been already badly damaged by their allies.

  • MaticoreMaticore Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Saurfang wrote: »
    So, dis monster.... how might I improve it?

    <snip>

    I think it's gonna need an ability to attack more than one PC at once, because I quickly see the ranger readying an action to murder any cytoplasm that gets on someone - so its not gonna do that much real damage to anyone.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Yes, but when the Ranger misses it hits whoever has the cytoplasm, so potentially allies as well.

    Really it depends on the player composition and the blob's allies. You could consider making the blob do ongoing damage from the start, and giving the creature APs when they get destroyed.

    Sig1.png
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    So how about The Plane Below? I've looked through it and found some pretty interesting ideas.

    One of my favorites is Gloamnull; I don't care much for the overly grimdark name, but it is basically what you'd get if you transported Innsmouth from New England to the Elemental Chaos. I also like the Pillars of Chaos, particular the one that is basically a tornado you can climb.

    I'm kinda disappointed in the monster selection, though. For one I was hoping for more than just one primordial (and a more interesting one, at that). Second, I was hoping for conversions of elementals from previous editions like magmin or belkers.

    There's one monster in particular that I do like a lot, though. I can't recall its name off-hand, but one of its powers is sort of a petrification-variant that basically grabs a PC and forces it to meld inside a rock. If the PC fails his saving throws he must rely on the other party members to chip him out.

    Friend Code: 1590-5696-7916
    Friend Safari Type: Rock
  • hippofanthippofant Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Aegeri wrote: »
    They are kind of grindy as they don't deal a lot of damage by themselves and lack attacks. They are good with friends though because they can port around picking off enemies that have been already badly damaged by their allies.

    Rats. I was planning on using a slightly downlevelled version (9) against a level 7 party (4 members) alone. Maybe I should switch to steel, but mithral fits the story better (I think).
    Spoiler:

  • TiamatZTiamatZ Freeze...and burn! Double TroubleRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Saurfang wrote: »
    So, dis monster.... how might I improve it?

    *snip*
    Spoiler:

    Also: Awesome monster. You should try doing Momir Vig next to complete the Simic Team.

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  • The Cow KingThe Cow King arf arf Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Hmmm I've been reading through this free Keep on the Shadowfell and I think I'm going to see if I can pull my friends into the awesome fun times that DnD is. I mean one has expressed interest in joining my local sessions I go to but the party is full. If I can get some of em and this is free.

    I get to try my hand as a DM (well heavily scripted) and they get to see what this is all about. I think this may be worth it a learning experience for all.

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  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Aegeri; the OPs mention that Ki Focuses will be in "a future assassin article" - that article was published on Tuesday.
    Pity the content isn't in the CB yet though.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Aegeri; the OPs mention that Ki Focuses will be in "a future assassin article" - that article was published on Tuesday.
    Pity the content isn't in the CB yet though.

    I do know, but I'm waiting for the CB versions to see how they fully integrate. My habit with these things is to wait for the compiled dragon issues, as these frequently see some last minute errata and changes things a bit. I will certainly edit the class once they have compiled the issue. I also have to add the Seeker and Ardent.

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Gotcha.
    I just wish they'd hurry up; not just Assassins that use Ki Focuses now...

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    So, general question. What's the generally accepted upper limit on party size? At what point do combat encounters stop being fun and start being a tedious exercise based on party size?

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  • ravensmuseravensmuse Registered User
    edited December 2009
    I seem to remember that the crew got together to do the fourth podcast series, but they haven't released it yet. Wish I could remember where I saw that though.

    Have mephits been added to 4e yet? Still missing an MM2.

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  • PantheraOncaPantheraOnca Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    6 is pushing it a little in my opinion, unless the entire group is very efficient when getting things done, but even then i'd say that's iffy.

  • TiamatZTiamatZ Freeze...and burn! Double TroubleRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    The DMG1 has a section on how to scale encounters based on party level.

    Four is considered a minimum (having each player focus on a specific role), while 6 is considered at most bearable one can go before the game slows down to a crawl.
    Spoiler:

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    3 players can work well actually depending on the power and class choices.

    I like six a lot and in fact this is now how many players I always try to maintain/go looking for in each campaign I run.

    Seven is really unwieldy but I've done this once for a while and it kind of worked, but I would never repeat it again.

    Eight is a genuine nightmare for me and way too many people trying to talk at once for my liking.

  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    We've got a group of five (two strikers, one leader, one defender, one controller) and the players are a little worried that combat encounters are going to be... a little slow.

    I guess if we run some practice battles before we play, and figure out how we all best compliment each other, running into battles in the actual game will be much smoother.

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Multiple Strikers should help speed things up.

    We've got 4 players, two leaders and two defenders. That starts to drag a little.

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  • cytorakcytorak Registered User
    edited December 2009
    We have 3 players: a controller, a leader, and a striker. The cleric gets nearly murdered every game, so that's fun. I try to stress the importance of the defender, but I get met with dismissive hand waves. :(

  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    The first time we played, we had two Defenders (who doled out the most damage out of everyone - totally twinked builds - Fighter and Paladin), two Leaders (Warlord and Cleric) and two Strikers (Ranger and Warlock). Combat seemed to take an inordinately long time, but I put that down to inexperience on the part of five of the six players. Though the experienced guy was pretty much playing both Defenders. This was the main reason I was asking how many players was 'critical mass'. This time around, it should be smoother, I'm hoping.

    If the guy that was playing the Ranger doesn't miss everything this time.

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  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Kay wrote: »
    The first time we played, we had two Defenders (who doled out the most damage out of everyone - totally twinked builds - Fighter and Paladin), two Leaders (Warlord and Cleric) and two Strikers (Ranger and Warlock). Combat seemed to take an inordinately long time, but I put that down to inexperience on the part of five of the six players. Though the experienced guy was pretty much playing both Defenders. This was the main reason I was asking how many players was 'critical mass'. This time around, it should be smoother, I'm hoping.

    If the guy that was playing the Ranger doesn't miss everything this time.

    Problem with that is you had two Strikers that are Controller secondaries. So in truth you had a well balanced party.

  • eatmosushieatmosushi __BANNED USERS
    edited December 2009
    Ok, so here's the current possible 4th level party build for our scales of war campaign

    A wisadin (focus on lay on hands, damage reduction, temp hitpoints)
    Barabarian
    Avenger with censure of Unity
    Dualwielding Fighter
    Sorc
    Bard

    the bard is worried that he will not have enough healing to keep us up, and i'm wondering if the pally's self sufficieny will be enough to cover it?

    how do you make a healtastic bard?

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  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    First place to start is to be a Virtuous Bard and grab the improved Majestic Word feat. Healing at surge +4hp +4 temp. Another thing to consider is the strategy of waiting for the PC to drop unconcious before healing; all the damage that puts them in the negative is ignored, plus it pulls the heat off the character as their attacker has moved on and left them alone.
    cytorak wrote: »
    We have 3 players: a controller, a leader, and a striker. The cleric gets nearly murdered every game, so that's fun. I try to stress the importance of the defender, but I get met with dismissive hand waves. :(

    Nah, just knock them out and capture them with a good elite brute +lurker/skirmisher. If they can't tell what's causing them to incapacitate so often and wont take your advice, you gotta demonstrate it harder. don't *make* them pick new PCs, just make them grasp the issue so they'll devise their own solution.

    hmm.gif
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    ravensmuse wrote: »
    Have mephits been added to 4e yet? Still missing an MM2.

    There was a Dragon article in which you could select a mephit as a familiar. They're Small sized now, though, which is actually what I always thought they were until I noticed recently that they were Medium in 3E.

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  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    Kay wrote: »
    The first time we played, we had two Defenders (who doled out the most damage out of everyone - totally twinked builds - Fighter and Paladin), two Leaders (Warlord and Cleric) and two Strikers (Ranger and Warlock). Combat seemed to take an inordinately long time, but I put that down to inexperience on the part of five of the six players. Though the experienced guy was pretty much playing both Defenders. This was the main reason I was asking how many players was 'critical mass'. This time around, it should be smoother, I'm hoping.

    If the guy that was playing the Ranger doesn't miss everything this time.

    Problem with that is you had two Strikers that are Controller secondaries. So in truth you had a well balanced party.

    Ah, I didn't realise that Ranger was controllerish in their secondary focus. He was a Bow ranger, if that made any difference.

    This time around, we've got this party makeup:

    Ranger (Greatweapon/Beastmaster spec)
    Rogue (Acrobatic/no use out of combat other than Thievery spec)
    Warlord (MC Warlock, Inspiring build with mobility/teleport Warlock powers)
    Warden (I have no idea how these work, but he seems to be controller secondary with AoE difficult terrain powers)
    Invoker (See above, lots of AoE debuff nukes according to the player)

    More balanced, less balanced? I'm worried that healing people may be a problem, though the Warden has the Heal proficiency and MC Paladin with the status-effect heal.

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  • ravensmuseravensmuse Registered User
    edited December 2009
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    ravensmuse wrote: »
    Have mephits been added to 4e yet? Still missing an MM2.

    There was a Dragon article in which you could select a mephit as a familiar. They're Small sized now, though, which is actually what I always thought they were until I noticed recently that they were Medium in 3E.

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  • XenoZergieXenoZergie Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Good day, D&D thread, I've got a tricky mechanics question for those of you that are particularly rules savvy:

    Let's say a player is fighting on his mount. The mount has a fly speed but doesn't have hover, so it's got to move at least two squares every turn or it crashes and burns.

    The player and his mount start their turn a couple squares off the ground but still adjacent (or within threatening reach) of a Large or Huge monster. The player attacks the monster, and the monster responds with an interrupt that dazes the player.

    What the hell happens next? Do the player and his mount immediately crash because the player can no longer use his move to command the mount to move? Can the mount still use the remaining turn's worth of actions to move itself since it's not dazed?

    Realistically (haha) you'd expect the mount to still be able to move itself since it obviously doesn't want to crash, but I honestly have no idea.

  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Well, if he's dazed he can still use his one action to move. I suppose if he uses it to attakc then they'd crash.

    Assuming the mount doesn't get its own actions. I've used riding horses twice before without being 100% sure of how the actions combine; I just count the rider as having the horse's move and let the horse attack on the same initiative.

    hmm.gif
  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Common sense would state that the rider's no longer in control, so the mount would do its own thing, but that's not exactly a rules-lawyer response, so...

    (As a GM, I'd rule that the mount would act in self-preservation, either moving around and attacking if it was inclined, or leaving combat if it was less of a war-trained critter.)

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