So he opposes the bill because it has no cost control but wasn't for the public option. He also says the way it's paid for is "unacceptable" but doesn't elaborate. Is he talking about the cadillac plans thing?
I've constructed this elaborate fantasy where Harry Reid turns from Fredo Corleone into Michael, and his agents put the public option back in, nuke the filibuster, and pass the bill all during an extended baptism montage sequence. Then Lieberman confronts him in his office and asks "I head you were behind this, is it true?" And Reid looks him dead in the eye and says "no."
Then the music plays
deeee do do deeeee de dee do dooooooo
deeee do do deeeee de dee do doooooooooo
I'd prefer if they machine gunned him at a tollbooth while he's driving back to Connecticut.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
You are not the only one with that fantasy. I think it's a commonly shared emotion right now.
Had MSNBC on in the background while making dinner tonight (latkes!!) and was listening to the Ed Show, which I dont usually do cause he's a bit... much for me. But he had a girl on there tonight from Georgia I think, and the stuff that she said and that Ed agreed with and said really struck home.
The president is pissing off his base. Before the midterms. Why am I getting this sinking feeling that we were all.... duped?
edit:: well yeah, Bum. but then we start getting into the whole NSA/FBI thing. Better to just set him on fire.
Better to wait a year and try this again after some of these scumbags get thrown out by the angry public. Democrats who vote against this will have to face primary challenges.
I still have little doubt that things would be worse with McCain. McCain would've killed us all.
Also, Obama isn't pissing off his base, that's dumb. he's not reaching what his base thought he would do. He's not doing as much as he should. That's not pissing off the base, that's being a weak, spineless president. There's a huge difference and to suggest otherwise is just wrong.
However, Obama needs to grow some fucking balls goddamn.
Better to wait a year and try this again after some of these scumbags get thrown out by the angry public. Democrats who vote against this will have to face primary challenges.
IMO this is our best chance to get sixty votes. Now if you wanted to do it another way, I could get behind that...but if we wait a year we won't even have 60 fake democrats, let alone real ones.
Worst case, they'll impose the fine as a tax on everyone; and then rebate it dollar for dollar as a tax credit on those who do get insurance.
It's rare these days that the Constitution stops the federal government from doing anything. See Marijuana prohibition, Guantanamo, drinking age, speed limits, etc.
Is there anything from stopping me from filing taxes with proof of insurance from Dave's Burger Palace and Discount Insurance Emporium? What qualifies as "having insurance"?
There are some basic requirements that need to be met (catastrophic coverage I think being the only thing necessary), so if Dave's Burger Palace will give you catastrophic coverage, go right ahead.
big l on
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Tiger BurningDig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tuberegular
edited December 2009
Obama's doing fine. He's a hair's breadth away from passing the most sweeping social welfare legislation since medicare less than 12 months after taking office, and it's not like it hasn't been an eventful year otherwise. Short of President Martin Luther Gandhi, I don't know what you were expecting.
Obama's doing fine. He's a hair's breadth away from passing the most sweeping social welfare legislation since medicare less than 12 months after taking office, and it's not like it hasn't been an eventful year otherwise. Short of President Martin Luther Gandhi, I don't know what you were expecting.
The people elected about a billion dems to office. They have support for pretty much everything they're trying to pass in the public.
And the result is dems hiding in a fucking corner and hoping the pubs don't hurt us.
The president is within a hair's breadth away from passing a bill that was a centerpiece of his campaign, while not even moving at all on topics like the repeal of DADT or any actual movement to close Gitmo, despite his "transparency in the government" pledge, there are plenty of behind-the-scenes things going on and bills being passed without first being released to the public. So far his biggest achievement as president have been "Not being Bush". I wanted more
Khavall on
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
The problem is that Obama is actually human and we won't see any effects from this presidency for years to come.
Well, no, the stimulus was his biggest achievement. And it's only his fault in that he can't wrangle Lieberman/Nelson effectively. I wish he had tried a slightly different negotiating tactic, especially with Nelson (some kind of leverage!) as he's not with them on climate either.
In that sense I can sorta understanding tip toeing around Holy Joe.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Obama's doing fine. He's a hair's breadth away from passing the most sweeping social welfare legislation since medicare less than 12 months after taking office, and it's not like it hasn't been an eventful year otherwise. Short of President Martin Luther Gandhi, I don't know what you were expecting.
The people elected about a billion dems to office. They have support for pretty much everything they're trying to pass in the public.
Fewer than were elected under LBJ and so he has no real room for leverage. The 60th Senator has you by the short and curlies every time, unless you have numerous 60th Senators. If the margin was 65 (D) 35 (R) like under the Great Society you could pull a prisoner's dilemma on them all locked in different office rooms without a blackberry. It isn't, though, so Lieberman/Nelson have all the bargaining power. Which was true back last November too, but I didn't realize just how sociopathic they are.
And the result is dems hiding in a fucking corner and hoping the pubs don't hurt us.
...no, the result is 'moderates' getting to fellate themselves for how moderate they are. The GOP has nothing to do with what's going on in the Capitol right now, its basically all focused on the 5 'centrist' Dems who would apparently rather let thousands of preventable deaths continue than raise marginal tax rates to low levels rather than historically low levels because deficit! while simultaneously backing unfunded estate tax cuts.
If its not as good as it could be, then its not as good as it should be; and that means that you cannot support the bill!
But seriously, I thought the plan all along was to just pass as much of the skeletal structure as possible, then start hanging some meat and muscle on it incrementally later. I dont understand why the progressives are getting more and more angsty about there being less skeleton than they hoped, when the plan was always to add more later, its just the initial birthing thats the problem.
If its not as good as it could be, then its not as good as it should be; and that means that you cannot support the bill!
But seriously, I thought the plan all along was to just pass as much of the skeletal structure as possible, then start hanging some meat and muscle on it incrementally later. I dont understand why the progressives are getting more and more angsty about there being less skeleton than they hoped, when the plan was always to add more later, its just the initial birthing that's the problem.
If its not as good as it could be, then its not as good as it should be; and that means that you cannot support the bill!
But seriously, I thought the plan all along was to just pass as much of the skeletal structure as possible, then start hanging some meat and muscle on it incrementally later. I dont understand why the progressives are getting more and more angsty about there being less skeleton than they hoped, when the plan was always to add more later, its just the initial birthing thats the problem.
Because they wanted single payer, accepted the public option as a compromise, watched it sloooooowly and agonizingly neutered and then dropped over the course of eight months, and now their mortal enemy is running the whole show and they're getting almost none of what they originally wanted.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
All I want to say is that if some relatively strong health care reform does not pass I'm probably a dead man within the next year.
I can't afford the health insurance I need to combat a potentially life-threatening condition from getting out of hand. Pre-existing condition denials have seen to that. The treatments run about $400 a week. I don't make $400 a week.
So, you know, my life is in the hands of Congress. I'm remarkably less terrified than I ought to be.
All I want to say is that if some relatively strong health care reform does not pass I'm probably a dead man within the next year.
I can't afford the health insurance I need to combat a potentially life-threatening condition from getting out of hand. Pre-existing condition denials have seen to that. The treatments run about $400 a week. I don't make $400 a week.
So, you know, my life is in the hands of Congress. I'm remarkably less terrified than I ought to be.
The bill will most likely have something that prohibits companies from denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition. You'll have to pay a higher premium, but they'll be legally obligated to cover you.
All I want to say is that if some relatively strong health care reform does not pass I'm probably a dead man within the next year.
I can't afford the health insurance I need to combat a potentially life-threatening condition from getting out of hand. Pre-existing condition denials have seen to that. The treatments run about $400 a week. I don't make $400 a week.
So, you know, my life is in the hands of Congress. I'm remarkably less terrified than I ought to be.
I think you can get a 1-way ticket to France for about that price...
All I want to say is that if some relatively strong health care reform does not pass I'm probably a dead man within the next year.
I can't afford the health insurance I need to combat a potentially life-threatening condition from getting out of hand. Pre-existing condition denials have seen to that. The treatments run about $400 a week. I don't make $400 a week.
So, you know, my life is in the hands of Congress. I'm remarkably less terrified than I ought to be.
I think you can get a 1-way ticket to France for about that price...
On the plus side, having proved that Republicans can't govern, now we get to prove Broderism can't govern?
Except this doesn't really have much of anything to do with Broderism.
The Nelson/Lieberman/Snowe/Collins grouping is Broderism pretty much defined. They're Washington's "sensible centrists."
Broderism, as I understand it, is "bipartisanship for its own sake".
What's going on now is "bending over to get the required votes".
There are three elements to Broderism:
1) As you say, bipartisanship for its own sake. But it's more the worship of the Senators who sometimes cross the aisle on controversial measures: Bayh, Landrieu, Lincoln, Nelson, Lieberman, Snowe, Collins, and McCain gets a pass because of his image.
2) Cutting spending on the poor whenever possible.
3) Moralistic blowharding if Democrats aren't super nice. Like get a BJ, or say mean things about John McCain, or tell the media it's stupid.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
The above is pretty much why I hate Broderism and the fellatio he gets from retards who pretend they are better because they are centrists. At least Michelle Bachmann stands up for some principles.
It should be stated that "passing an HC bill whatever the fucking cost because we'll fix it later and if we don't pass one now, we never will" is a principle I think is worth standing by.
On the plus side, having proved that Republicans can't govern, now we get to prove Broderism can't govern?
Except this doesn't really have much of anything to do with Broderism.
The Nelson/Lieberman/Snowe/Collins grouping is Broderism pretty much defined. They're Washington's "sensible centrists."
Broderism, as I understand it, is "bipartisanship for its own sake".
What's going on now is "bending over to get the required votes".
There are three elements to Broderism:
1) As you say, bipartisanship for its own sake. But it's more the worship of the Senators who sometimes cross the aisle on controversial measures: Bayh, Landrieu, Lincoln, Nelson, Lieberman, Snowe, Collins, and McCain gets a pass because of his image.
2) Cutting spending on the poor whenever possible.
3) Moralistic blowharding if Democrats aren't super nice. Like get a BJ, or say mean things about John McCain, or tell the media it's stupid.
There have been a few procedural votes in the senate this morning that got 63 aye votes. That means some Republicans are voting with the democrats on procedural stuff. Isn't that unusual? Could it be a thing?
Posts
(that was me banging my head against the keyboard)
They need to nuke the damn filibuster.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/18/its-now-democrat-vs-democ_n_397167.html
This MIGHT be 60. NO ONE FUCKING SNEEZE
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
Then the music plays
deeee do do deeeee de dee do dooooooo
deeee do do deeeee de dee do doooooooooo
Had MSNBC on in the background while making dinner tonight (latkes!!) and was listening to the Ed Show, which I dont usually do cause he's a bit... much for me. But he had a girl on there tonight from Georgia I think, and the stuff that she said and that Ed agreed with and said really struck home.
The president is pissing off his base. Before the midterms. Why am I getting this sinking feeling that we were all.... duped?
edit:: well yeah, Bum. but then we start getting into the whole NSA/FBI thing. Better to just set him on fire.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
Better to wait a year and try this again after some of these scumbags get thrown out by the angry public. Democrats who vote against this will have to face primary challenges.
Also, Obama isn't pissing off his base, that's dumb. he's not reaching what his base thought he would do. He's not doing as much as he should. That's not pissing off the base, that's being a weak, spineless president. There's a huge difference and to suggest otherwise is just wrong.
However, Obama needs to grow some fucking balls goddamn.
IMO this is our best chance to get sixty votes. Now if you wanted to do it another way, I could get behind that...but if we wait a year we won't even have 60 fake democrats, let alone real ones.
There are some basic requirements that need to be met (catastrophic coverage I think being the only thing necessary), so if Dave's Burger Palace will give you catastrophic coverage, go right ahead.
The people elected about a billion dems to office. They have support for pretty much everything they're trying to pass in the public.
And the result is dems hiding in a fucking corner and hoping the pubs don't hurt us.
The president is within a hair's breadth away from passing a bill that was a centerpiece of his campaign, while not even moving at all on topics like the repeal of DADT or any actual movement to close Gitmo, despite his "transparency in the government" pledge, there are plenty of behind-the-scenes things going on and bills being passed without first being released to the public. So far his biggest achievement as president have been "Not being Bush". I wanted more
In that sense I can sorta understanding tip toeing around Holy Joe.
Fewer than were elected under LBJ and so he has no real room for leverage. The 60th Senator has you by the short and curlies every time, unless you have numerous 60th Senators. If the margin was 65 (D) 35 (R) like under the Great Society you could pull a prisoner's dilemma on them all locked in different office rooms without a blackberry. It isn't, though, so Lieberman/Nelson have all the bargaining power. Which was true back last November too, but I didn't realize just how sociopathic they are.
...no, the result is 'moderates' getting to fellate themselves for how moderate they are. The GOP has nothing to do with what's going on in the Capitol right now, its basically all focused on the 5 'centrist' Dems who would apparently rather let thousands of preventable deaths continue than raise marginal tax rates to low levels rather than historically low levels because deficit! while simultaneously backing unfunded estate tax cuts.
But seriously, I thought the plan all along was to just pass as much of the skeletal structure as possible, then start hanging some meat and muscle on it incrementally later. I dont understand why the progressives are getting more and more angsty about there being less skeleton than they hoped, when the plan was always to add more later, its just the initial birthing thats the problem.
MWO: Adamski
So many abortion jokes...
Because they wanted single payer, accepted the public option as a compromise, watched it sloooooowly and agonizingly neutered and then dropped over the course of eight months, and now their mortal enemy is running the whole show and they're getting almost none of what they originally wanted.
Gain one vote in the Senate and lose dozens in the house. And probably a few in the Senate as well.
I can't afford the health insurance I need to combat a potentially life-threatening condition from getting out of hand. Pre-existing condition denials have seen to that. The treatments run about $400 a week. I don't make $400 a week.
So, you know, my life is in the hands of Congress. I'm remarkably less terrified than I ought to be.
The bill will most likely have something that prohibits companies from denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition. You'll have to pay a higher premium, but they'll be legally obligated to cover you.
Yay good news?
I think you can get a 1-way ticket to France for about that price...
Or Canadian citizenship.
You CAN speak french, right?
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Except this doesn't really have much of anything to do with Broderism.
The Nelson/Lieberman/Snowe/Collins grouping is Broderism pretty much defined. They're Washington's "sensible centrists."
Broderism, as I understand it, is "bipartisanship for its own sake".
What's going on now is "bending over to get the required votes".
There are three elements to Broderism:
1) As you say, bipartisanship for its own sake. But it's more the worship of the Senators who sometimes cross the aisle on controversial measures: Bayh, Landrieu, Lincoln, Nelson, Lieberman, Snowe, Collins, and McCain gets a pass because of his image.
2) Cutting spending on the poor whenever possible.
3) Moralistic blowharding if Democrats aren't super nice. Like get a BJ, or say mean things about John McCain, or tell the media it's stupid.
It should be stated that "passing an HC bill whatever the fucking cost because we'll fix it later and if we don't pass one now, we never will" is a principle I think is worth standing by.
And where's any of this happening?
edit: The quote is "Yeah." So take it with a grain of salt.
The Washington Post is reporting the same thing. I don't know how meaningful that is - Reid and Nelson are to speak about it.