Good thing I never said anything about "timeless pop culture."
I would rather comics avoided specific pop culture references as much as possible in general.
Yeah. But having all the pop culture he's catching up on be from the one relatively narrow, specific period where he was dead in "real time" is going to date the book down the line.
If the pop culture exists outside of a specific period of time, then it's timeless.
They could have just referred to him wanting to find out who won the Super Bowl while he was gone or whatever. But instead they say it was the Packers and Steelers playing in the Super Bowl. Again, too specific. But that's no big deal, the Friday thing is way worse because it's like the very definition of a stupid, 15-minutes-of-fame flash pop culture phenomenon which we won't ever think of in ten years unless VH1 is doing another round of those "I love the (blank)" shows.
The first comics I ever read were yellowed, decaying stuff from the 60's which had belonged to my mom and her uncles as children. I would unearth them from the attic when I went to visit my grandma. Those books were three decades or more old at the time and I didn't have any trouble relating to or enjoying them. Except, that is, for the few I came across which I thought were ridiculous and lame, the ones where they thought they'd be clever by working in stuff from the pop culture of that era, such as an issue where (I swear this is real, I remember it clearly) comedian Jerry Lewis somehow puts on Superman's costume and villains mistake him for the real thing. But if I have a kid who's born this year and ten years from now he's reading some of my old comics and he comes across the Friday joke, as amusing as it is to us now, my kid is going to have no clue what it's about. That's what bothers me. If there is such a thing as timeless pop culture, comics may be it (pardon me if I'm getting sentimental here). But I feel like there's this seldom-voiced unease in the industry that maybe people think comics are old-fashioned or something and so there's a need to prove that they're hip and and "for today" by doing stuff like throwing in more references to other contemporary pop culture and often as not it totally backfires.
Alright, getting off my soapbox now.
If it makes you feel any better, I thought that page was very funny and I have absolutely no idea what song he is singing. The lyrics and Spidey's reaction were enough to indicate that it was a terrible, shameful, song.
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ArrynAsk not the InnkeeperFor destiny is thy name!Registered Userregular
Since comic book universes get rebooted ever few years I wouldn't worry about "dating" the books via pop culture references.
1. No they don't
2. People are still gonna read the books.
I can't think of any long running comic book universes that haven't been rebooted. Some are just more subtle about it than others. Originally, Tony Stark got his heart injury from shrapnel in Vietnam, during the Vietnam War. Think that's still canon? DC just makes an event about it.
But it's been that way from the beginning. Take the Flash for example. Jay Garrick appears in 1940, is the Flash up until (technically) 1956. (His comic ceased print in 1949). Barry Allen runs from 1956-1985. Wally West from 1985-2007 or so.
People act like universe-altering changes are something fairly recent, but they've pretty much been a staple of the genre for fifty years.
Since comic book universes get rebooted ever few years I wouldn't worry about "dating" the books via pop culture references.
1. No they don't
2. People are still gonna read the books.
I can't think of any long running comic book universes that haven't been rebooted. Some are just more subtle about it than others. Originally, Tony Stark got his heart injury from shrapnel in Vietnam, during the Vietnam War. Think that's still canon? DC just makes an event about it.
But it's been that way from the beginning. Take the Flash for example. Jay Garrick appears in 1940, is the Flash up until (technically) 1956. (His comic ceased print in 1949). Barry Allen runs from 1956-1985. Wally West from 1985-2007 or so.
People act like universe-altering changes are something fairly recent, but they've pretty much been a staple of the genre for fifty years.
Along with what Solar said I also want to specify that I am objecting to the "every few years" part of his comment and not the "Comic book universes get rebooted".
How many times has DC done a reboot? If memory serves only three or four.
Yeah it's a major exaggeration to say comics universes get "rebooted every five years." For one thing, Marvel doesn't really do the reboot thing per se, that's more DC. Even they don't do it anywhere nearly that often. And sliding timelines and new characters taking up mantles are not at all the same thing as a total universe reboot.
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ArrynAsk not the InnkeeperFor destiny is thy name!Registered Userregular
I don't think anyone's said "five" years. The term was "few" years which is sort of ambiguous.
How many times DC's done the reboot thing depends on how you define reboot. Does Zero Hour count? Or Infinite Crisis? I would say no, but others might disagree.
When it comes to sliding timelines, again, semantics. Obviously in the current continuity, Cap probably didn't give up being Cap and go become Nomad in reaction to the actions of Richard Nixon as he did originally. So does that count as a reboot? a re-imagining? Depends on who you're asking.
Oh yeah the WWII stuff is pretty much all still there
mostly because everyone around at the time who is still active in the modern era is either immortal (Nick Fury, Natasha), very long lived (Namor) or didn't experience the interim period (Bucky, Steve, Jim etc).
I would imagine even Natasha is gonna have to get a shift to being active solely in the Cold War soon because sexy seductress spy lady who is actually like 70-80 years old is gonna get weird
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AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
I would imagine even Natasha is gonna have to get a shift to being active solely in the Cold War soon because sexy seductress spy lady who is actually like 70-80 years old is gonna get weird
no she won't, since she's currently printing money
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I think they actually tried to do that in one of her Black Widow mini series (this one).
As in, she was exposed to some kind of formula to age slower, but at the same time she was being trained to be the next Black Widow super spy through some kind of russian stepford wives thing. Brainwashing and ballet was involved.
I would imagine even Natasha is gonna have to get a shift to being active solely in the Cold War soon because sexy seductress spy lady who is actually like 70-80 years old is gonna get weird
no she won't, since she's currently printing money
I would imagine even Natasha is gonna have to get a shift to being active solely in the Cold War soon because sexy seductress spy lady who is actually like 70-80 years old is gonna get weird
no she won't, since she's currently printing money
w
what
She has had a string of cancelled solo series
True! She doesn't stand alone well in the current market. However, she is probably the third most-prominent cast member of The Avengers and likely won't be dropped due to that.
I would imagine even Natasha is gonna have to get a shift to being active solely in the Cold War soon because sexy seductress spy lady who is actually like 70-80 years old is gonna get weird
speaking of which, I wonder what Spitfire is up to lately
I would imagine even Natasha is gonna have to get a shift to being active solely in the Cold War soon because sexy seductress spy lady who is actually like 70-80 years old is gonna get weird
no she won't, since she's currently printing money
w
what
She has had a string of cancelled solo series
True! She doesn't stand alone well in the current market. However, she is probably the third most-prominent cast member of The Avengers and likely won't be dropped due to that.
What?
No she isn't.
Iron Man, Thor and Cap are all way more prominent
as well as Hulk and Nick Fury
I think you are letting your personal affection for Black Widow make her seem more popular to you
I didn't say she would be abandoned or anything, just have her origin tweaked.
I would imagine even Natasha is gonna have to get a shift to being active solely in the Cold War soon because sexy seductress spy lady who is actually like 70-80 years old is gonna get weird
no she won't, since she's currently printing money
w
what
She has had a string of cancelled solo series
True! She doesn't stand alone well in the current market. However, she is probably the third most-prominent cast member of The Avengers and likely won't be dropped due to that.
What?
No she isn't.
Iron Man, Thor and Cap are all way more prominent
as well as Hulk and Nick Fury
I think you are letting your personal affection for Black Widow make her seem more popular to you
I didn't say she would be abandoned or anything, just have her origin tweaked.
I'd say Spider Woman is far more prominent then any of the other female cast members.
She's in just about every group comic, has her own specific scenes in many of the Avengers stuff, and ends up doing solo things in other comics as well.
Guys, again, pretty sure we are talking about the prominence of the ACTORS CAST in the Avengers movie, where Scarlett Johannson would definitely be near the top.
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AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
Guys, again, pretty sure we are talking about the prominence of the ACTORS CAST in the Avengers movie, where Scarlett Johannson would definitely be near the top.
Yeah, sorry. (Robos, oddly enough my second was actually Hemsworth after all of Thor's positive word of mouth.)
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ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
Guys, again, pretty sure we are talking about the prominence of the ACTORS CAST in the Avengers movie, where Scarlett Johannson would definitely be near the top.
Still, I don't really get why Widow would make the casting call (Which would influence the cast.). Unless there's licensing issues involved.
When I think of "Avengers", I don't exactly think of Black Widow. There's a ton of much more prominent female Avengers that could make the cut. Especially given some of the other cast choices, and since they're ret-conning a few things to work differently (Jarvis is an AI.).
Since this page is looking a little light on pictures, here's a few:
Behold. Galactus being the biggest badass around in one of the newer Fantastic Four comics. While not wordy, the art in the scenes involved is suitably epic. For references, there's a huge space battle going on, with the Inhumans, Kree, Earth, and a bunch of other factions duking it out. Shit hits peak "we're doomed" levels, and Reed decides that the proverbial Godzilla threshold has been reached. So he calls:
One (very short) battle later:
Well, second biggest badass, I guess.
Also: Not sure where this is from, but it's hilarious. The fact that a committee actually paid for it is pretty amazing, too.
Here's the full page. Love how shameless he is about being daredevil. Wonder how he knew that candy cane had mistletoe on it?
By scent and/or touch, I assume. Even without the radar sense.
I meant if he wasn't Daredevil. That's one of those things that he'd do, though.
Also, more pictures:
This time, Spiderman takes center page.
For those wondering, this takes place in the Ultimates universe. Not 616, which is the main continuity.
After spending almost his entire existence in this universe being a butt monkey that everyone ends up supporting, Spiderman's future is looking good. Great even. Even Jonah Jameson ends up helping out, who decides to pledge his newspaper to helping him out after one particular incident where Spiderman goes all out to save as many people as he can, having the balls to admit that the real reason he hates Spiderman is that he's ashamed of his own actions during the whole event.
Unfortunately, this universe's Peter Parker doesn't have the experience that the 616's has by the time he reaches this level of popularity (And thus, anger from some particularly hosed up folks.), so eventually, despite his growing popularity with just about everyone, he bites off more then he can chew.
Captain America thinks he doesn't have what it takes to do the whole costumed hero thing, and that he's just endangering himself. He quickly changes his mind when Spiderman takes a bullet for him. Cradling him (This Peter Parker is pretty young, comparatively speaking.), he says that he's going to be the "best of us". And the implication is that there's an open invitation to the universe's equivalent of the Avengers once he's a bit older.
What follows is a grueling battle as practically every one of Spideys nemesis-es over the course of the series notes his weakness --- And goes after his family and friends, so that he can't back out of the fight.
Spidey, who has something of an issue with family members dying (His uncles death hit him really hard in this universe. Maybe even harder then 616.) webs the bullet wound up and proceeds to do a "You shall not pass!" moment, publicly handing them their ass on Aunt Mays' and Mary Janes front lawn, until the wound tears open, and he starts to bleed out, having taken a huge amount of damage from each of the villains during the fight. This is the aftermath:
And just to nail that he's gone for good. They have this picture.
After this, the "name" of Spiderman was picked up by a black kid who wanted to help out, pretty much like how Spiderman originally was before his death. Unfortunately, he isn't accepted that well (In universe, or out, really. The decision to "revamp" Spiderman took some heat. Especially the method in which they did it.), since many of the characters who knew Peter Parker think he's trying to hog the spotlight, or is just an asshole benefiting off of the death of a revered New York hero. Spidermans original villains also hate the guys guts, because, hey, that asshole is back! The 616 universe seems to get alot of mileage out of making jokes about this.
And now for something lighter! From the 616 universe:
now I haven't read all of Death of Spider-Man yet, but I'm kind of curious - where was Mary Jane during the funeral there?
I honestly can't remember. It was a fairly long time ago when I read it. When it first came out in fact. And I don't have access to the issues anymore.
Here's the full page. Love how shameless he is about being daredevil. Wonder how he knew that candy cane had mistletoe on it?
By scent and/or touch, I assume. Even without the radar sense.
I meant if he wasn't Daredevil. That's one of those things that he'd do, though.
Yeah, normal blind people can smell and/or feel mistletoe, too assuming they've encountered it before. A thirty-something Catholic boy like Matt probably would have anyway.
Here's the full page. Love how shameless he is about being daredevil. Wonder how he knew that candy cane had mistletoe on it?
By scent and/or touch, I assume. Even without the radar sense.
I meant if he wasn't Daredevil. That's one of those things that he'd do, though.
Yeah, normal blind people can smell and/or feel mistletoe, too assuming they've encountered it before. A thirty-something Catholic boy like Matt probably would have anyway.
I was more referring to the fact as to how a blind man would know where they put the mistletoe (Attached to a ridiculously large candy cane, no less.) in an office in the middle of a giant party. Assuming he wasn't told ahead of time, that is. It's not like it was in the middle of an empty room, attached to a giant pedestal or something.
But then, that's Daredevil being himself. Dude seems to get his kicks out of trolling people about his secret identity.
Edit: But then, now that I look closer at the image, it appears that the mistletoe is part of his cane, not part of the decorations for the Christmas party. The bottom of it is fitted with a rubber cap that's used for them to keep the bottom from getting scuffed, though it's a pain to see given the background behind it.
I had assumed he had just pilfered the thing from the decorations for the party, before I noticed that. Which would be his style as of late, given that he'd be walking in without it to help sell his usual "oh no, i'm blind!" personality.
Posts
1. No they don't
2. People are still gonna read the books.
Now that's a whole separate problem. :P
If it makes you feel any better, I thought that page was very funny and I have absolutely no idea what song he is singing. The lyrics and Spidey's reaction were enough to indicate that it was a terrible, shameful, song.
I can't think of any long running comic book universes that haven't been rebooted. Some are just more subtle about it than others. Originally, Tony Stark got his heart injury from shrapnel in Vietnam, during the Vietnam War. Think that's still canon? DC just makes an event about it.
But it's been that way from the beginning. Take the Flash for example. Jay Garrick appears in 1940, is the Flash up until (technically) 1956. (His comic ceased print in 1949). Barry Allen runs from 1956-1985. Wally West from 1985-2007 or so.
People act like universe-altering changes are something fairly recent, but they've pretty much been a staple of the genre for fifty years.
Those Namor, Captain America and Human Torche stories from the 40s are still in canon
I think that is pretty great
Along with what Solar said I also want to specify that I am objecting to the "every few years" part of his comment and not the "Comic book universes get rebooted".
How many times has DC done a reboot? If memory serves only three or four.
How many times DC's done the reboot thing depends on how you define reboot. Does Zero Hour count? Or Infinite Crisis? I would say no, but others might disagree.
When it comes to sliding timelines, again, semantics. Obviously in the current continuity, Cap probably didn't give up being Cap and go become Nomad in reaction to the actions of Richard Nixon as he did originally. So does that count as a reboot? a re-imagining? Depends on who you're asking.
Rather than it being Nixon, however (and they never said it was Nixon in the first place), it would have been a different president.
Same as how Flash Thompson was a war hero in Vietnam, but that has been shifted so he is a war hero in an unspecified foreign conflict.
That's all in continuity, it's just a sliding time-line which means that the older stories are in reference to different events and so on
Except Secret Avengers #23, which was pretty explicit in terms of Cap and Torch 1 definitely killed Hitler.
'cause that is the greatest thing.
mostly because everyone around at the time who is still active in the modern era is either immortal (Nick Fury, Natasha), very long lived (Namor) or didn't experience the interim period (Bucky, Steve, Jim etc).
I would imagine even Natasha is gonna have to get a shift to being active solely in the Cold War soon because sexy seductress spy lady who is actually like 70-80 years old is gonna get weird
no she won't, since she's currently printing money
As in, she was exposed to some kind of formula to age slower, but at the same time she was being trained to be the next Black Widow super spy through some kind of russian stepford wives thing. Brainwashing and ballet was involved.
So she basically can be active in WWII to whenever
what
She has had a string of cancelled solo series
But it probably wouldn't sell
True! She doesn't stand alone well in the current market. However, she is probably the third most-prominent cast member of The Avengers and likely won't be dropped due to that.
speaking of which, I wonder what Spitfire is up to lately
No she isn't.
Iron Man, Thor and Cap are all way more prominent
as well as Hulk and Nick Fury
I think you are letting your personal affection for Black Widow make her seem more popular to you
I didn't say she would be abandoned or anything, just have her origin tweaked.
RDJ>Scarjo>Jackson>Evans>Renner>Hemsworth>Ruffalo would be my own ranking, but I could see Jackson coming ahead of Scarjo.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
I'd say Spider Woman is far more prominent then any of the other female cast members.
She's in just about every group comic, has her own specific scenes in many of the Avengers stuff, and ends up doing solo things in other comics as well.
Can't even remember who Black Widow is, really.
Yeah, sorry. (Robos, oddly enough my second was actually Hemsworth after all of Thor's positive word of mouth.)
Still, I don't really get why Widow would make the casting call (Which would influence the cast.). Unless there's licensing issues involved.
When I think of "Avengers", I don't exactly think of Black Widow. There's a ton of much more prominent female Avengers that could make the cut. Especially given some of the other cast choices, and since they're ret-conning a few things to work differently (Jarvis is an AI.).
Since this page is looking a little light on pictures, here's a few:
Behold. Galactus being the biggest badass around in one of the newer Fantastic Four comics. While not wordy, the art in the scenes involved is suitably epic. For references, there's a huge space battle going on, with the Inhumans, Kree, Earth, and a bunch of other factions duking it out. Shit hits peak "we're doomed" levels, and Reed decides that the proverbial Godzilla threshold has been reached. So he calls:
One (very short) battle later:
Well, second biggest badass, I guess.
Also: Not sure where this is from, but it's hilarious. The fact that a committee actually paid for it is pretty amazing, too.
Edit: Also:
Also, are edits kosher?
Hell, by Jack Kirby
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Also, more pictures:
This time, Spiderman takes center page.
For those wondering, this takes place in the Ultimates universe. Not 616, which is the main continuity.
After spending almost his entire existence in this universe being a butt monkey that everyone ends up supporting, Spiderman's future is looking good. Great even. Even Jonah Jameson ends up helping out, who decides to pledge his newspaper to helping him out after one particular incident where Spiderman goes all out to save as many people as he can, having the balls to admit that the real reason he hates Spiderman is that he's ashamed of his own actions during the whole event.
Unfortunately, this universe's Peter Parker doesn't have the experience that the 616's has by the time he reaches this level of popularity (And thus, anger from some particularly hosed up folks.), so eventually, despite his growing popularity with just about everyone, he bites off more then he can chew.
Captain America thinks he doesn't have what it takes to do the whole costumed hero thing, and that he's just endangering himself. He quickly changes his mind when Spiderman takes a bullet for him. Cradling him (This Peter Parker is pretty young, comparatively speaking.), he says that he's going to be the "best of us". And the implication is that there's an open invitation to the universe's equivalent of the Avengers once he's a bit older.
What follows is a grueling battle as practically every one of Spideys nemesis-es over the course of the series notes his weakness --- And goes after his family and friends, so that he can't back out of the fight.
Spidey, who has something of an issue with family members dying (His uncles death hit him really hard in this universe. Maybe even harder then 616.) webs the bullet wound up and proceeds to do a "You shall not pass!" moment, publicly handing them their ass on Aunt Mays' and Mary Janes front lawn, until the wound tears open, and he starts to bleed out, having taken a huge amount of damage from each of the villains during the fight. This is the aftermath:
And just to nail that he's gone for good. They have this picture.
After this, the "name" of Spiderman was picked up by a black kid who wanted to help out, pretty much like how Spiderman originally was before his death. Unfortunately, he isn't accepted that well (In universe, or out, really. The decision to "revamp" Spiderman took some heat. Especially the method in which they did it.), since many of the characters who knew Peter Parker think he's trying to hog the spotlight, or is just an asshole benefiting off of the death of a revered New York hero. Spidermans original villains also hate the guys guts, because, hey, that asshole is back! The 616 universe seems to get alot of mileage out of making jokes about this.
And now for something lighter! From the 616 universe:
Dr. Doom is a nerd!
Spiderman gets meta.
I honestly can't remember. It was a fairly long time ago when I read it. When it first came out in fact. And I don't have access to the issues anymore.
I can't really think of another comic moment that's affected me as much as the death of Spidey
I was more referring to the fact as to how a blind man would know where they put the mistletoe (Attached to a ridiculously large candy cane, no less.) in an office in the middle of a giant party. Assuming he wasn't told ahead of time, that is. It's not like it was in the middle of an empty room, attached to a giant pedestal or something.
But then, that's Daredevil being himself. Dude seems to get his kicks out of trolling people about his secret identity.
Edit: But then, now that I look closer at the image, it appears that the mistletoe is part of his cane, not part of the decorations for the Christmas party. The bottom of it is fitted with a rubber cap that's used for them to keep the bottom from getting scuffed, though it's a pain to see given the background behind it.
I had assumed he had just pilfered the thing from the decorations for the party, before I noticed that. Which would be his style as of late, given that he'd be walking in without it to help sell his usual "oh no, i'm blind!" personality.
That's even better. Dude came prepared.