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France contemplates banning the niqāb (face veil)
Posts
GT: batshido Hit me up on ME3.
Education and attempts at integration or appealing to younger generations? Coupled with some degree of upward mobility to draw them even further into the status quo, of course.
I never understand the seeming focus that is always put on first generation immigrants whenever the topic comes up. Look at any point in our history, at least, and first generation whatever always keeps strong links to their culture and societal norms. Then they have kids. Then have grand kids. And those little bastards are about as American as apple pie.
I'm 4th generation American, and my great grandparents had to deal with 'Italians Need Not Apply' and bullshit like this:
Umm, linguistic minorities want to remain separate just as much as religious minorities.
One important thing is that cultural assimilation isn't a one way street. A dominant culture rarely welcomes the attempts of a cultural minority to assimilate with open arms, especially since those attempts occur in stages.
I'd also suggest that a combination of cultural pressure and cultural acceptance, combined with education, is a much more effective catalyst for assimilation than governmental pressure.
Really? You're making the leap that because the State outlaws nudity that it has a proven interest in restricting other forms of dress that might be considered offensive?
By way of example, the percentage of observant Muslims in Philadelphia has been on the rise for years now, but we're not experiencing an Islamic immigration boom.
In the end, something that is prohibited by religion is often harder to shake than something that is part of a national culture.
GT: batshido Hit me up on ME3.
Edit: That is what you're talking about, right?
GT: batshido Hit me up on ME3.
Yes, but religion generally adapts to fit the culture that it finds itself over time. The difference between American Catholics, South American Catholics, African Catholics, and European Catholics are relatively subtle in comparison to Catholics and all you other heretics, but they do exist. The same is true for Islam. It's pretty different (even ignoring the Sunni/Shia thing) in Arabia, Iran, Indonesia, and here. Opening up and being more tolerant of them while working to integrate the philosophical underpinnings of our culture tends to lead to different interpretations of holy texts over time. It isn't a guarantee of moderation, but it is a different dynamic.
Err, no it's not?
You seem to be trying to separate language, culture, and religion from minority identity and claiming each is different. Basque, Catalan, Occitan, and other integration in France was cultural (and religious in the case of the first, or rather a-religious since they were trying to remove Catholic influence) even while they are all linguistic minorities. Moreover, the integration of these minorities was centered around language integration because through language was the dissemination of the French culture and suppression of minority cultures (if you kill off the minority language, you lose the aspect of culture along with it).
That sort of integration is basically done by 1) teaching the kids how to speak the dominant language, 2) convincing those same kids that there's more upside to being part of the dominant culture than there is to actively opposing it and 3) waiting until those kids become the cultural decision makers for their minority group. This is a pretty tried and true way of doing things, it's worked for every society with immigrants since the beginning of recorded history.
So yes, there's some crossover with the moderation of Islam and its integration into the larger culture, but it also lacks some of the specific difficulties of this case to overcome. The outward markers of the culture in particular, in this case the niqab, are a hump that the culture has to overcome on its own in this model. The hope is that eventually the minority culture becomes integrated well enough that it just happens, but there's no guarantee that this will be the case. It requires a direct decision on the part of the culture to abandon something that they use to self-identify, which is rough in the best of situations.
GT: batshido Hit me up on ME3.
I am not saying that it has a proven interest, I am just saying that some may construe it as having an implied interest. I, for one, do not think it has, but I am sure that someone somewhere gets a giant legal boner just thinking about restricting someone's choice of clothing on the precedent established by these laws.
So yes, I am making the leap, because when people are given an inch of latitude in some aspects, they will go for the mile.
It wasn't forced removal. Parents actually TRIED to kid their children into the corps since it promised their kids a waaaay better life. History can be kind of skewed to christian sympathy, but deeper studying of the corps and written documents by the Janissaries give a unique point of view.
Hell, at several points in history, the Janissaries were just as powerful as the king.
And were super-conservative, and prevented crucial reforms from going through. History is full of these sorts of fun facts.
Unless someone really think there will suddenly be some female empowerment movement and they all decide to burn their veils.
My Backloggery PSN: Bigisy24
So roughly .0003 (?) percent of the population wearing these is some sort of challenge to French values?
sensationalism gets us no where. This isn't 1984.
I agree.
My Backloggery PSN: Bigisy24
I misread what you wrote it seems. Read it as "France is getting really shitting recently". My mistake
My Backloggery PSN: Bigisy24
I agree this was a shit thing for France do to, but I get tired of "western civilization is crumbling because this one thing happened!"
It looks like corrective action will be taken and France will get over this douchebagery. System working as intended.