As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

Windows Phone 7: It's not terrible!

13

Posts

  • RebootReboot Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    The UI control seems to be mentioned on quite a few sites... Wired, Engadget, Gizmodo... MS seems to be taking responsibility of the UI rather than letting phonemakers provide their own "solution", in a bid to improve the user experience with Windows phones. Users (and makers) can probably still customize the hubs and how information and apps are arranged around these hubs, but the hubs UI in itself probably can't be changed.

    But that's just one facet of what's new about WP7; there are rumors about the Zune-only syncing... not sure how true is that, but hopefully file-exploring a connected device is still possible without an interfacing software (one reason I avoided the iPhone is... iTunes).

    The other big thing is multi-tasking, which MS has been very evasive about. Guess that will have to wait until MIX next month...

    Reboot on
  • Dark ShroudDark Shroud Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    stigweard wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    Unless they completely lock out HTC from making any modificiations, which I kind of doubt since they're one of the largest high end WM companies, I'm sure that there'll be something that can be done with the customization. If not, there's always XDA

    Companies cannot replace the UI. They can add tiles and that's about it.

    You helped to develop the new os?

    Maybe you should do some research. I've read several columns on this and watched the press even video.

    MS has a goal with the OS UI to make it standard across all phone models across all carriers.

    This is the first time I am excited about getting a cell phone. Partially because I run a heavy MS eco system. And the Zune Pass over 3G sealed the deal for me. Now it comes down to getting a Tegra2 and docking options. Depending on those I might still buy a Zune HD.

    Dark Shroud on
  • stigweardstigweard Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I wonder how they are going to prevent it. Look at Touch Flow - it's just an app that sits over top of the base ui. You can also run android right over top in winmo, though that isn't the same. I've since read that that is the official word form MS, but it seems more like a licensing thing than a technical block.

    stigweard on
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    It's in the terms of licensing the software, and you can't sell a phone with unlicensed software on it.

    I'm sure some people will come up with mods for it, but it won't be HTC.

    Centipede Damascus on
  • rndmherorndmhero Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    And really, that's all they're interested in. They want a stable, uniform platform that will be presented to the public so that every Jim, Joe, and Susy that waltz into a Verizon store can be comfortable with a familiar interface that has Microsoft's name on it. The type of user who can modify the OS or reskin the UI (ie people on these boards) are not the type of user who will suddenly be confused by the resultant appearance.

    rndmhero on
  • El GuacoEl Guaco Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    It looks like developers will have a choice of Silverlight for apps and XNA for games. I'm excited to try both!

    El Guaco on
  • JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Oh boy. MS trying to cash in on that itunes store success.

    JAEF on
  • SoggybiscuitSoggybiscuit Tandem Electrostatic Accelerator Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    My Blackberry Bold will be 2 years old when these new phones start to hit the market. If MS can pull off what they have shown thus far, all I can say is adiós Bold. I've wanted a touchscreen phone ever since the iPhone hit the market, but I can not stand Apple products so this may be my saving grace.

    Soggybiscuit on
    Steam - Synthetic Violence | XBOX Live - Cannonfuse | PSN - CastleBravo | Twitch - SoggybiscuitPA
  • JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    You got beef with Android? Or is the Zune/Live integration a bigger deal for you?

    JAEF on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    http://live.visitmix.com/

    Mix is happening now yo.

    LewieP on
  • rndmherorndmhero Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    So far apart from some impressive looking 3D gaming, the big bombshell seems to be that the Silverlight-heavy app focus allows for things like streaming Netflix directly to your phone.

    Argh, my contract is up in two months. I really don't know if I can wait 8 more!

    rndmhero on
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yeah, my contract is up in July and I've been looking at the Android platform, but I think I might want to just wait a few more months and see what the initial Win7 phones are specced at.

    Dehumanized on
  • rndmherorndmhero Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yeah, my contract is up in July and I've been looking at the Android platform, but I think I might want to just wait a few more months and see what the initial Win7 phones are specced at.

    Same. I've been planning on picking up a Droid, but all this news is really making me reconsider. Being able to access my Netflix account anywhere would be awesome, but ditching Android would mean giving up things like GBA emulators. Decisions, decisions.

    rndmhero on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Also, Microsoft have said that there is going to be no official way of installing apps other than the marketplace.

    Meaning that without a hack, there will be no way of installing anything other than what Microsoft let you. Just like the iPhone.

    That certainly decreased my interest.

    LewieP on
  • rndmherorndmhero Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    LewieP wrote: »
    Also, Microsoft have said that there is going to be no official way of installing apps other than the marketplace.

    Meaning that without a hack, there will be no way of installing anything other than what Microsoft let you. Just like the iPhone.

    That certainly decreased my interest.

    Could you give me a few examples? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but while I dislike the "walled garden" design philosophy, I'm not sure how much of what I'd do with a phone would be considered beyond the pale for normal app development.

    Also, mandating trial versions for all apps seems like a good move for consumers.

    rndmhero on
  • MonoxideMonoxide Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2010
    rndmhero wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    Also, Microsoft have said that there is going to be no official way of installing apps other than the marketplace.

    Meaning that without a hack, there will be no way of installing anything other than what Microsoft let you. Just like the iPhone.

    That certainly decreased my interest.

    Could you give me a few examples? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but while I dislike the "walled garden" design philosophy, I'm not sure how much of what I'd do with a phone would be considered beyond the pale for normal app development.

    Also, mandating trial versions for all apps seems like a good move for consumers.

    Didn't you just give an example?
    but ditching Android would mean giving up things like GBA emulators. Decisions, decisions.

    Monoxide on
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I think Microsoft said they're going to announce their review process for the Marketplace in May. I'm not going to get concerned about marketplace limits until we've seen those documents.

    Dehumanized on
  • LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    It was the Google Voice shit that stops me upgrading my Touch to an iPhone. Microsoft had better not make the same mistake.

    Lewisham on
  • rndmherorndmhero Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Lewisham wrote: »
    It was the Google Voice shit that stops me upgrading my Touch to an iPhone. Microsoft had better not make the same mistake.

    Huh? I hadn't heard about this. Could you elaborate?

    rndmhero on
  • Dark ShroudDark Shroud Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    rndmhero wrote: »
    Lewisham wrote: »
    It was the Google Voice shit that stops me upgrading my Touch to an iPhone. Microsoft had better not make the same mistake.

    Huh? I hadn't heard about this. Could you elaborate?

    Apple refused the Google Voice app for the iPhone. Similar to how Apple wouldn't allow Skype to use the 3g connection, only Wifi.

    So the question is how is MS going to run their market place with these phones. Since MS is also keep tight reins on this OS unlike past versions of Windows Mobile. This is a good thing so we don't get the mess that's happening with Android phones not getting updates to the latest versions.

    Dark Shroud on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    So the question is how is MS going to run their market place with these phones. Since MS is also keep tight reins on this OS unlike past versions of Windows Mobile. This is a good thing so we don't get the mess that's happening with Android phones not getting updates to the latest versions.

    That is a separate (but still relevant) issue really. The Android firmware mess is because there are so many manufacturers, and google have little/no say on what hardware people put Android on, and no ability to force any level of support.

    What MS are doing by having strict hardware standards has some very real advantages. You can expect a certain standardisation of performance, and developers have a much better idea of the hardware capabilities that they are developing for. The downside is that it will probably keep prices up (only really a downside to potential customers that wouldn't mind sacrificing some hardware features/performance), I also have to wonder if manufacturers might just scrimp and save on the hardware elements not specified by Microsoft (battery capacity? build quality?) since they can't cut costs on Ram/Processor et al.

    The walled garden for software for WinMo7 means that it will be impossible to do anything with the phone that MS don't want you to do. It's hard to give specific examples right now, since we don't know what they will/won't allow.

    Emulators, as mentioned before, are likely off the books. But what about things that let you customise elements of the phone's basic functions? What if I want to just be able to drag and drop MP3s instead of using the Zune software? What if I want to Overclock the processor? Will they let apps exist that replicate existing functionality (Apple don't), no alternative browsers, no Google navigation?

    Basically, the walled garden approach is simply to make it so that software can only do what Microsoft want it to do. I like Androids approach of having a marketplace that has stuff that follows google's terms on it, but you can install anything you want from MicroSD card or whatever.

    LewieP on
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    They just demoed a netflix streaming (wifi or 3g) app for windows 7. I think I know what my new phone will be.

    DiannaoChong on
    steam_sig.png
  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Microsoft has enough trouble in the world market bundling in things like IE with Windows. I don't think they are going to lock out applications that duplicate features (like Opera or Firefox) because they are too big of a target. Where Apple gets a pass because they are not really as globally dominant (despite being quite dominating in some markets).

    ArcSyn on
    4dm3dwuxq302.png
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yeah, hopefully some browser choice will exist. They announced today that the IE packaged with the system will be kind of a hybrid between IE7 and IE8 -- and that updates will probably come after the phone launches commercially. Having something WebKit based to use alongside that would probably be handy.

    Dehumanized on
  • AyulinAyulin Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    YEEESSS. Shazam has Zune Marketplace integration :D

    Ayulin on
    steam_sig.png
  • CyvrosCyvros Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I realise this is a weird question, but does anyone know what font they're using in these shots? I quite like it.
    Segoe UI, the current 'standard' font for Microsoft logos and UIs.

    I'm mostly hyped about the fact that the Zune will finally make its way, in some awesomely advanced form, to Australia. It's ridiculous, the cost of getting a Zune HD down our way.

    Cyvros on
  • sterling3763sterling3763 Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
  • rndmherorndmhero Registered User regular
    edited March 2010

    No multitasking I can understand. I disagree with it and think it's a stupid design decision, but I can understand the reasoning behind it. Copy and paste, on the other hand... o_O Is this really that difficult to implement? I mean, I realize that copying something and moving it elsewhere is absolute cutting edge technology and all, but you'd think Microsoft would be able to figure out how to make it work.

    rndmhero on
  • CyvrosCyvros Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Regarding copy/paste:
    Brix said many times when a user copies something on a phone, what they really are looking to do is take a specific action, such as calling a phone number or e-mailing an address. For those specific tasks, Microsoft has what it calls "smart linking," which lets a user double click on a phone number and either call it or add it to the phone book. For an address, one can get a map without having to copy and paste the address.

    "It's actually an intentional design decision," he said. "We try to anticipate what the user wants so copy and paste isn't necessary."
    That's all cool and all, but you're building Office into these phones, guys.

    Cyvros on
  • RebootReboot Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I'm confident that copy and paste will exist where they're needed in the context (such as in Office, or even on the browser?). Not having copy and paste at all would be a terrible, and somewhat odd decision.

    As for multitasking, they're adopting the iPhone method where some apps will be allowed to run at the background, but not all apps. The chief difference is that those background apps aren't going to be MS-only. So "partners" will have apps that can run on the background, if it needs to (e.g. music streaming. I'm thinking GPS too). I'm guessing MS is trying to limit the number of apps running in the background, hogging memory. I'm using a WinMo phone I can relate to that.

    Edit: multitasking's been disussed over at xda-developers too. Here's one of the threads for reference. There seem to be some kind of multitasking, just not the kind we're used to on a PC:

    http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=647148

    Reboot on
  • AyulinAyulin Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I can get behind no multitasking, but the copy and paste thing is pretty silly. While trying "to anticipate what the user wants so [it] isn't necessary" is good and all, that just doesn't work for all the applications of copy + paste. The only times I've ever used it on my phone are to quote something I've seen on a web page in a message or tweet, and not to do things that would be picked up by prediction (e.g. dialing of numbers just as they mentioned).

    Still, I wouldn't be surprised if it snuck in in a future update.

    Ayulin on
    steam_sig.png
  • amnesiasoftamnesiasoft Thick Creamy Furry Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    http://twitter.com/thurrott/statuses/10593003663

    It would seem it's still might makes its way in.

    amnesiasoft on
    steam_sig.png
  • DHS OdiumDHS Odium Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Hey guys, I'm at the tail end of mix10 right now and had seen the phone os in action. There is copy and paste, that description above is accurate but not detailed enough. You highligt any text or URL, and bring up a sub menu to bring that string in to, so if it's info on a webpage, any app that can accept it like office or something 3rd party will be in that list, and you can paste it and launch the app with one action.

    DHS Odium on
    Wii U: DHS-Odium // Live: DHS Odium // PSN: DHSOdium // Steam: dhsykes // 3DS: 0318-6615-5294
  • JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Aww yeah no MicroSD support.

    We're taking this train all the way to Apple country.

    JAEF on
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    JAEF wrote: »
    Aww yeah no MicroSD support.

    We're taking this train all the way to Apple country.

    Now if only people would copy the good Apple ideas instead of the bad ones..

    Phoenix-D on
  • JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    You're right, Microsoft should sue the shit out of HTC.

    Or did you mean like the hardware and software stuff?

    JAEF on
  • RebootReboot Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    JAEF wrote: »
    Aww yeah no MicroSD support.

    We're taking this train all the way to Apple country.

    Well as long as the internal memory's well sized, this isn't too big of a loss. I'm hoping 8GB as a minimum, thought with games... 8GB may not even be enough.

    Just keep the battery replaceable.

    (Actually MS does "copy" what Apple makes popular - there's a historical trend. What MS usually brings is closer relationship with industrial partners whereas Apple just strikes it out solo.)

    Reboot on
  • Dark ShroudDark Shroud Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Reboot wrote: »
    Actually MS does "copy" what Apple makes popular - there's a historical trend.

    Can you cite any examples of this? Because usually it's Apple that's copying something else and pretending it's original.

    Dark Shroud on
  • AyulinAyulin Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Reboot wrote: »
    JAEF wrote: »
    Aww yeah no MicroSD support.

    We're taking this train all the way to Apple country.

    Well as long as the internal memory's well sized, this isn't too big of a loss. I'm hoping 8GB as a minimum, thought with games... 8GB may not even be enough.

    Just keep the battery replaceable.

    (Actually MS does "copy" what Apple makes popular - there's a historical trend. What MS usually brings is closer relationship with industrial partners whereas Apple just strikes it out solo.)

    Uuuugh. I was hoping I could replace my Zune 80 with a phone + huge memory card, but there goes that option.

    Ayulin on
    steam_sig.png
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Most of the initial downsides I'm hearing for the platform don't really dissuade me. I can't say I'm too interested in replacing my current phone + mp3 player setup with just a phone.

    Though, if the option existed for omghuge storage on the phone, it'd certainly make the whole "Zune with 3G access" thing more exciting.

    Dehumanized on
Sign In or Register to comment.