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Italy, youtube, they do be crazy!

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Posts

  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    Yar wrote: »
    Some general goings-on in the world of politics that I hate:

    2) Greedy depsicable leeches in European and S. American governments who look for any way they can to attack or rob American global corporations.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU HAVE TO BE FUCKING KIDDING


    five pages on but seriously haha what

    In his mind, Contra is just a video game and United Fruit is a gay boy band.

    Replace 'european and S. American governments' with 'american corporations' and 'american global corporations' with 'the people and nations of south america' and you're a lot closer to the truth.

  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    psychotix wrote: »
    The EU has long been a bizarre circus that seems out of place in the 21st century.

    Personally I think this is nothing more than a shakedown. They need the money, the see a source, they find a totally ridiculous excuse to go after it.

    I'm curious to see what becomes of all this.

    Simple, the EU will continue to shake down American companies after making idle threats (sure, go ahead and make an EU wide linux and run it off VIA/AMD hardware, you assholes can build your own search engine while they are at it) and then backing the fuck down. And US companies will continue to tolerate this outrages behavior because of the size of the EU market.

    At least China isn't as insane as the EU.

    So you don't actually have and concrete grievances based on fact, just some John Bolton style hyberbole. I mean, there's nothing wrong with hyperbole, but we should all be clear from where you're basing your argument.

  • MovitzMovitz Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Most, if not all, of the cases where EU sued it was based on pretty normal stuff such as MS having their own file format that they didn't allow others to use. And it was mostly to mark that shit like this is not appreciated and beneficial for a free market. It was not to deztroy kapitalist contry of americas! Home off infidelz. And so on.

    But anyway, I just came in here to say this: As having first hand experience of Italy I would not be suprised to learn that some of Berlusconi's media companies are about to launch a similar video services soon. Badmouthing google would make people switch to his service instead. That country is insanely corrupt and many judges have interests in things and/or are bought.

    steam_sig.png
  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    psychotix wrote: »
    Just wow.

    They sued the shit out of MS and went on a rant about linux, euro designed, thus we should use it. They sued the fuck out intel, and now google.

    They have a fucking history of targeting the top American companies and then taking them to court only to end up extracting money from them.

    The EU is pathetic in this aspect.

    It's serial behavior, Yar called a duck a duck here.

    The MS and Intel suits were entirely well founded. MS pulled some seriously bullshit moves in Europe, and got dragged to court over a few of them. Intel did something they absolutely were not allowed to do as well.

    Neither was focused on "give us money", both were focused on "stop that bad behavior or there's a daily fine for it." They increased the fines due to non compliance. Not because they wanted more money, because they wanted the companies to behave in a legal manner.

    Note: No european country to my knowledge has a vested financial interest in Linux.


    Now, as for the "90% of their shipping containers have sex slaves" straw man: by the same logic a company can find a suit ridiculous if 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of their shipping containers contained lead contaminated toys, and they were facing jail time over it.

    The fact is, Google did nothing akin to a 90% failure rate on anything, and are facing jail time for enforcing their ToS and following the law as best as they could. Again, someone who is pro-Italy's court decision against them: Please inform the class about what Google in this EXACT CASE should have done to avoid the jail time. Because that's the complaint on this entire thing: that Google didn't do anything wrong, has shown no malice or negligence at all, and is still somehow facing jail time for it. As far as I can tell the content creators just got kicked out of school.

    More amusingly/depressingly: The video on trail in this case was posted on Youtube months before Google acquired it.

  • DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Erm, Kildy. Google owns Youtube :P

    DQ0uv.png 5E984.png
  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Demiurge wrote: »
    Erm, Kildy. Google owns Youtube :P

    Yes, but the events this lawsuit are about happened months before Google had acquired Youtube. This all went down in 2006.

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Didn't Italy convict an American student of having a hand in another student's murder just because she was involved in an orgy with that other student?

    I'm not sure if I trust Italy's court system to not be seeking to punish as many people as remotely possible.

    To be fair, Amanda Knox didn't do anything to make herself seem innocent.

  • ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Didn't Italy convict an American student of having a hand in another student's murder just because she was involved in an orgy with that other student?

    I'm not sure if I trust Italy's court system to not be seeking to punish as many people as remotely possible.

    To be fair, Amanda Knox didn't do anything to make herself seem innocent.

    there wasn't any good evidence that she did anything wrong

    Burden of proof should be on the accusers, not the accused

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    ronzo wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Didn't Italy convict an American student of having a hand in another student's murder just because she was involved in an orgy with that other student?

    I'm not sure if I trust Italy's court system to not be seeking to punish as many people as remotely possible.

    To be fair, Amanda Knox didn't do anything to make herself seem innocent.

    there wasn't any good evidence that she did anything wrong

    Burden of proof should be on the accusers, not the accused

    We're not in the United States.

  • ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    mrt144 wrote: »
    ronzo wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Didn't Italy convict an American student of having a hand in another student's murder just because she was involved in an orgy with that other student?

    I'm not sure if I trust Italy's court system to not be seeking to punish as many people as remotely possible.

    To be fair, Amanda Knox didn't do anything to make herself seem innocent.

    there wasn't any good evidence that she did anything wrong

    Burden of proof should be on the accusers, not the accused

    We're not in the United States.

    i would still assume that a modern country would operate on those principles

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    ronzo wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    ronzo wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Didn't Italy convict an American student of having a hand in another student's murder just because she was involved in an orgy with that other student?

    I'm not sure if I trust Italy's court system to not be seeking to punish as many people as remotely possible.

    To be fair, Amanda Knox didn't do anything to make herself seem innocent.

    there wasn't any good evidence that she did anything wrong

    Burden of proof should be on the accusers, not the accused

    We're not in the United States.

    i would still assume that a modern country would operate on those principles

    Lolz at Italy being modern.

  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    ronzo wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    ronzo wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Didn't Italy convict an American student of having a hand in another student's murder just because she was involved in an orgy with that other student?

    I'm not sure if I trust Italy's court system to not be seeking to punish as many people as remotely possible.

    To be fair, Amanda Knox didn't do anything to make herself seem innocent.

    there wasn't any good evidence that she did anything wrong

    Burden of proof should be on the accusers, not the accused

    We're not in the United States.

    i would still assume that a modern country would operate on those principles

    Countries with legal systems based on the Napoleonic Code generally have much weaker presumption of innocence than "common law" countries, but its my understanding that most European countries are trying to address that.

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    Spoiler:
  • KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    kildy wrote: »
    Now, as for the "90% of their shipping containers have sex slaves" straw man: by the same logic a company can find a suit ridiculous if 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of their shipping containers contained lead contaminated toys, and they were facing jail time over it.

    new example to consider =/= strawman.
    The fact is, Google did nothing akin to a 90% failure rate on anything, and are facing jail time for enforcing their ToS and following the law as best as they could. Again, someone who is pro-Italy's court decision against them: Please inform the class about what Google in this EXACT CASE should have done to avoid the jail time. Because that's the complaint on this entire thing: that Google didn't do anything wrong, has shown no malice or negligence at all, and is still somehow facing jail time for it. As far as I can tell the content creators just got kicked out of school.

    that's why we all agree that google shouldnt have any liability in this case. im not sure who you are arguing with since we are all in agreement about this specific case.
    More amusingly/depressingly: The video on trail in this case was posted on Youtube months before Google acquired it.

    although it makes google's case for innocence stronger, it is possible to assume all the liabilities of the corporation you buy. that being said, this case is just too weird. it's hard to fathom what the prosecution was thinking.

  • ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Ketherial wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    The fact is, Google did nothing akin to a 90% failure rate on anything, and are facing jail time for enforcing their ToS and following the law as best as they could. Again, someone who is pro-Italy's court decision against them: Please inform the class about what Google in this EXACT CASE should have done to avoid the jail time. Because that's the complaint on this entire thing: that Google didn't do anything wrong, has shown no malice or negligence at all, and is still somehow facing jail time for it. As far as I can tell the content creators just got kicked out of school.

    that's why we all agree that google shouldnt have any liability in this case. im not sure who you are arguing with since we are all in agreement about this specific case.
    Yar wrote: »
    But, yeah. My point was exactly what you said, and that instead of trying to make this into an issue of "God look how stupid they are, they think internet is tubez olololol" they would probably do better to acknowledge the emotional nature of the situation, take at least some sort of unofficial responsibility for their part (and profit) in sensationalizing an autistic kid getting picked on, and respectfully submit their appeals, which I hope would be heard.

    Seems some people think that google has some sort of liability here

  • MovitzMovitz Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    PantsB wrote: »
    ronzo wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    ronzo wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Didn't Italy convict an American student of having a hand in another student's murder just because she was involved in an orgy with that other student?

    I'm not sure if I trust Italy's court system to not be seeking to punish as many people as remotely possible.

    To be fair, Amanda Knox didn't do anything to make herself seem innocent.

    there wasn't any good evidence that she did anything wrong

    Burden of proof should be on the accusers, not the accused

    We're not in the United States.

    i would still assume that a modern country would operate on those principles

    Countries with legal systems based on the Napoleonic Code generally have much weaker presumption of innocence than "common law" countries, but its my understanding that most European countries are trying to address that.

    This is simply not true.

    I have to make it clear. Italy is a joke in every way, why the fuck they are allowed to have a say at all in the EU parliament is beyond me. And honestly, the Napoleonic Code was a step up in many cases from the stuff based on the christian church. But most countries, believe it or not, have updated their law system since the late 1700s. Italy is fucked in many ways, as is many countries Europe, but the Napoleonic code isn't even worth mentioning in this context.

    Most countries over here are pretty fair, but not without their local flavor which is due to politics

    steam_sig.png
  • KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    ronzo wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    The fact is, Google did nothing akin to a 90% failure rate on anything, and are facing jail time for enforcing their ToS and following the law as best as they could. Again, someone who is pro-Italy's court decision against them: Please inform the class about what Google in this EXACT CASE should have done to avoid the jail time. Because that's the complaint on this entire thing: that Google didn't do anything wrong, has shown no malice or negligence at all, and is still somehow facing jail time for it. As far as I can tell the content creators just got kicked out of school.

    that's why we all agree that google shouldnt have any liability in this case. im not sure who you are arguing with since we are all in agreement about this specific case.
    Yar wrote: »
    But, yeah. My point was exactly what you said, and that instead of trying to make this into an issue of "God look how stupid they are, they think internet is tubez olololol" they would probably do better to acknowledge the emotional nature of the situation, take at least some sort of unofficial responsibility for their part (and profit) in sensationalizing an autistic kid getting picked on, and respectfully submit their appeals, which I hope would be heard.

    Seems some people think that google has some sort of liability here

    "unofficial responsibility" and legal liability are totally different things.

    i guess im just not really sure what your point is. do you think google has zero responsibility? i mean, i can see how you might think that, but youd be wrong. they know they are somewhat responsible and that's why they acted responsibly by working with the authorities, etc.

    again, i dont think anyone believes that google should be held legally liable. i also dont think anyone would disagree with the fact that youtube made this problem possible - in effect, google facilitated it.

    should google try to do more to curb these kinds of problems? honestly, i dont know how much they do already, but it's probably a lot. i dont know that they need to do any more than they did.

    at the same time, i can see why unlimited safe harbor could become problematic. good thing safe harbor provisions (as far as i know) arent unlimited so im not going to strawman you like that.

  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Didn't Italy convict an American student of having a hand in another student's murder just because she was involved in an orgy with that other student?

    I'm not sure if I trust Italy's court system to not be seeking to punish as many people as remotely possible.

    What the hell does the Knoxx case have to do with this? Besides, everything you heard about the Knoxx case has to be filtered through the fact that she was an attractive young American woman, who the media naturally sided with against them furriners.

  • IaculusIaculus Registered User
    edited February 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Didn't Italy convict an American student of having a hand in another student's murder just because she was involved in an orgy with that other student?

    I'm not sure if I trust Italy's court system to not be seeking to punish as many people as remotely possible.

    What the hell does the Knoxx case have to do with this? Besides, everything you heard about the Knoxx case has to be filtered through the fact that she was an attractive young American woman, who the media naturally sided with against them furriners.

    The fact that the prosecutor was shady as hell didn't help, though.

  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User
    edited February 2010
    oh god we're not going to start about the Knox case again are we?

  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I'm not going to bring my personal experience into this thread as much as I'd like to. But I'll link this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

    And advise people to look up the 'save previti' law and how that played out if they don't think corruption is a big issue in Italy.

    Erik
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Maybe next time Google should tell the Italian police to fuck off when they want to investigate something criminal, claiming the Italian equivalent of the 5th Amendment.

  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User
    edited February 2010
    Ego wrote: »
    I'm not going to bring my personal experience into this thread as much as I'd like to. But I'll link this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

    And advise people to look up the 'save previti' law and how that played out if they don't think corruption is a big issue in Italy.

    I'm not sure which is funnier, that Ireland is no. 14 or that Hong Kong is no. 12.

  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I don't have a problem with the EU competition authorities targeting "big American corporations" if they may have breached competition law. That is after all why the EU has a competition authority and those big corporations have huge market share in the EU member states and if they didn't want to have such market share they could have walked away at any point in the last decade, but they didn't, as they see value in remaining.

    To try and accuse the competition authority of what are I guess 25 members of the OECD as Anti American for doing their job is frankly lame and a cop out. Especially when there are valid criticisms of that competition authority that don't need to resort to bullshit nationalism

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
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