With the DotA clones draining people away from Battle.Net and no official port being done, now's the time for some fresh blood to take over with new maps. Obviously someone is going to do a straight rip of DotA, but I'm hoping it won't take hold. HoN does the job just fine.
HoN ain't going to last when it comes up against SC2 dota and icefrog's new project.
I very highly doubt that Icefrog's project will be a DotA clone to satisfy DoTA fans, like HoN is. I really don't see Valve making a game like that. Frankly I'd be surprised if it was even as hardcore as LoL. Also SC2's DotA may or may not be well made and it won't have nearly the feature set HoN does.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
I'm interested in the first person types of maps that might end up, if the previews of the robustness of the editor have still carried over. The idea of a Starcraft RPG-esqu campaign just sounds :drool:
I'm interested in the first person types of maps that might end up, if the previews of the robustness of the editor have still carried over. The idea of a Starcraft RPG-esqu campaign just sounds :drool:
Someone needs to make the SC equivalent of Barkley Shut Up And Jam: Gaiden, complete with turn based combat.
Dota hate up in this shit. Screw you guys. Dota is an amazing game.
We're not saying it's not an amazing game. The community is what makes it awful to play.
I'm saying it's not an amazing game. It is slow paced non persisted level grind with item combinations that are needlessly obtuse. It wasn't the only game of its genre floating around on the Battle.net at the time and it wasn't the best either.
Dota hate up in this shit. Screw you guys. Dota is an amazing game.
Dota so easy. Need like 4 apm.
And 4 apm is probably the limit to non-hardcore RTS players. You know, the ones who like to turtle up and don't attack, massing carriers and battle cruisers in SC 1 because they look cool. I'm not saying that they are stupid or anything but not everyone plays the game for competition. The spectacle and single player are probably two other good reasons people actually played SC before the competitive scene.
Now the hard part for DotA games is actually convincing your teammates to act exactly according to some plan.
I remember once while playing DotA, we ended up with 2 leavers on our team because we were losing. Me and my friend decided to take two heroes each and we managed to win because multitasking on two heroes ended up much better when our teams clashed because noone was being retarded anymore.
It was a pretty standard campaign at the time. I haven't played it in years but if I remember correctly it was just a bunch of "here are you units and buildings, you can only build these units, now go kill X target and or survive for X minutes."
I suspect there will be more to the SC2 missions.
It was a pretty standard campaign at the time. I haven't played it in years but if I remember correctly it was just a bunch of "here are you units and buildings, you can only build these units, now go kill X target and or survive for X minutes."
I suspect there will be more to the SC2 missions.
Yeah pretty much. They do mix it up a little, like there's one mission where there's a crashed battleship with a few scvs and goliaths in the middle of the zerg base, and you have to keep it alive until you build up your dudes and get to it. Or the one I'm on now there are Protoss and Zerg on the map, and you have to take out the Protoss without destroying any Zerg buildings.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
It was a pretty standard campaign at the time. I haven't played it in years but if I remember correctly it was just a bunch of "here are you units and buildings, you can only build these units, now go kill X target and or survive for X minutes."
I suspect there will be more to the SC2 missions.
Yeah pretty much. They do mix it up a little, like there's one mission where there's a crashed battleship with a few scvs and goliaths in the middle of the zerg base, and you have to keep it alive until you build up your dudes and get to it. Or the one I'm on now there are Protoss and Zerg on the map, and you have to take out the Protoss without destroying any Zerg buildings.
This mission is fun to play when you try to build so that you survive the zerg rush at the ending. I just about manage to not lose a building/unit by the time the mission complete screen pops up.
HoN ain't going to last when it comes up against SC2 dota and icefrog's new project.
I very highly doubt that Icefrog's project will be a DotA clan to satisfy DoTA fans, like HoN is. I really don't see Valve making a game like that. Frankly I'd be surprised if it was even as hardcore as LoL. Also SC2's DotA may or may not be well made and it won't have nearly the feature set HoN does.
I don't know how you could think Valve would hire icefrog to do anything other than what he's good at and what people want him to do. And icefrog isn't the type to take a job just because. I'm pretty sure he's said that Valve is giving him creative control anyway.
And what can HoN do that SC2 can't? The only thing HoN has over WC3 right now are matchmaking features and lobby UI. Battle.net 2.0 will have that stuff. Blizzard has confirmed that you will be able to form groups for custom maps, and there are enough elo and stat tracking sites for dota already that it's not a stretch to imagine they'll carry over and be stronger for it.
Starcraft's campaign is fun if only for how terribly balanced it is. I remember for Protoss especially you could win many missions by just rushing with your starting units. Good times.
The best level in the single player is the one where you have to survive for 30 minutes because you can actually go out and kill all the zerg, and when 30 minutes are up they're like OH GOD THERE ARE SO MANY ZERG GET US OUT OF HERE but they're all dead so they're screaming over nothing
The best level in the single player is the one where you have to survive for 30 minutes because you can actually go out and kill all the zerg, and when 30 minutes are up they're like OH GOD THERE ARE SO MANY ZERG GET US OUT OF HERE but they're all dead so they're screaming over nothing
I want a level like this that never ends and just gets harder and harder until the game crashes from too much zerg.
The missions with just units are pretty fun too, and the terran defense one probably inspired half the UMS games made.
I love a just units mission here and there. I'm sure we will see a just one ghost mission, it's like an RTS requirement. Like you will just have your ghost and you need to nuke something before your scvs can come in and start building your base.
I just wrapped up another afternoon of research and blog posting, this time about Terran Wall-Ins and what kind of SCV numbers you need to keep a wall up if it's under attack.
If you're interested in seeing images of how to make walls on most of the current maps, check out the post on Terran Advantage called Terran Feng Shui.
The interesting finding was that each Terran building and unit has a set repair rate, and there's no specific correlation between that rate and the building or units hitpoints. For instance, a SCV repairs a Command Center for about 14 Health Per Second (HPS) on Faster, but a Planetary Fortress is repaired at a rate of closer to 9 HPS.
I did some testing against small groups of Zerglings/Zealots as well to figure out how many SCVs would be needed, in case they try and test your wall. The results make sense when compared with the Unit DPS chart that was posted recently.
SCVs repair Supply Depots (the weak link in a Terran Wall) at about a rate of 10 Health Per Second.
Zerglings do just shy of 10 DPS each on Faster, and Zealots do just under 20 DPS each on Faster. That means you need about 4-5 SCVs for every 6 Zerglings, and 1.5x to 2x SCVs for each Zealot.
Realistically you can get by with less because you'll probably have a few marines picking them off while they try to break through. Still, it's nice to know. 3-5 Zealots can show up reasonably early in a game and actually break the wall unless the Terran brings a significant amount of SCVs to keep it up.
I just wrapped up another afternoon of research and blog posting, this time about Terran Wall-Ins and what kind of SCV numbers you need to keep a wall up if it's under attack.
If you're interested in seeing images of how to make walls on most of the current maps, check out the post on Terran Advantage called Terran Feng Shui.
The interesting finding was that each Terran building and unit has a set repair rate, and there's no specific correlation between that rate and the building or units hitpoints. For instance, a SCV repairs a Command Center for about 14 Health Per Second (HPS) on Faster, but a Planetary Fortress is repaired at a rate of closer to 9 HPS.
I did some testing against small groups of Zerglings/Zealots as well to figure out how many SCVs would be needed, in case they try and test your wall. The results make sense when compared with the Unit DPS chart that was posted recently.
SCVs repair Supply Depots (the weak link in a Terran Wall) at about a rate of 10 Health Per Second.
Zerglings do just shy of 10 DPS each on Faster, and Zealots do just under 20 DPS each on Faster. That means you need about 4-5 SCVs for every 6 Zerglings, and 1.5x to 2x SCVs for each Zealot.
Realistically you can get by with less because you'll probably have a few marines picking them off while they try to break through. Still, it's nice to know. 3-5 Zealots can show up reasonably early in a game and actually break the wall unless the Terran brings a significant amount of SCVs to keep it up.
There's more on the post if you're interested.
Good article. I'd like to point out one thing though, the photo where marines are getting caught. That's entirely the fault of where the waypoint is being set from the building. If they set the waypoint somewhere else (say on the left side) and then set the waypoint where they actually wanted the marines to go (shift clicking) the marines wouldn't be getting stuck.
I'm interested in the first person types of maps that might end up, if the previews of the robustness of the editor have still carried over. The idea of a Starcraft RPG-esqu campaign just sounds :drool:
Fungal growth should do more damage. Also, the range on everything with the infestor sucks, and the low hp makes it very hard to do anything without dying.
Fungal growth should do more damage. Also, the range on everything with the infestor sucks, and the low hp makes it very hard to do anything without dying.
Something really annoying that I noticed about infestors today is that they're too fat to work their way through your units. So if they get up front for some reason in a fight you have no hope of getting them to the back, they just squirm around in front of your hydras until they die.
Fungal growth should damage protoss health and not the shields imo.
Yeah I just had that problem on the space 1v1 map going through the shortcut.
I kept my hydras to one side at the start, but thne once things got heated they made and impentrable wall and I lost 4 infestors.
Although that wouldn't of been a problem if I had burrow like I thought I did.
I don't know why but this keeps happening to me, I am pretty sure I am queuing up upgrades but then later on they aren't researched. Also, at the start of the map, when I select my hatchery and s/d I've noticed a considerable amount of "lag", and it usually takes pressing it 4 or 5 times to get my first drone going.
edit: Also the inability to neural parasite flying units now severely dampened my "np his brood lords" strategy. Dats me!!
Anyway, i'm hopping on the nerf roaches bandwagon because the 2 gas cancel double hatch roach pump is ridiculous. They really should be a 2 supply unit. Also no one is using the burrow/move any more, people just throw them in with the rest of their attack/move mass.
Man I am just getting worse and worse at this game. I haven't had a win in a good while. Long losing streaks are great at dampening enthusiasm for a game.
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Also a map called Tides of Blood which was similar to DotA had a bunch of custom art assets.
So long as there is minimal community cross-over, just about anything will be better than playing DOTA.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Someone needs to make the SC equivalent of Barkley Shut Up And Jam: Gaiden, complete with turn based combat.
We're not saying it's not an amazing game. The community is what makes it awful to play.
Dota so easy. Need like 4 apm.
I'm saying it's not an amazing game. It is slow paced non persisted level grind with item combinations that are needlessly obtuse. It wasn't the only game of its genre floating around on the Battle.net at the time and it wasn't the best either.
And 4 apm is probably the limit to non-hardcore RTS players. You know, the ones who like to turtle up and don't attack, massing carriers and battle cruisers in SC 1 because they look cool. I'm not saying that they are stupid or anything but not everyone plays the game for competition. The spectacle and single player are probably two other good reasons people actually played SC before the competitive scene.
Now the hard part for DotA games is actually convincing your teammates to act exactly according to some plan.
I remember once while playing DotA, we ended up with 2 leavers on our team because we were losing. Me and my friend decided to take two heroes each and we managed to win because multitasking on two heroes ended up much better when our teams clashed because noone was being retarded anymore.
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Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
I dunno, I played most of the Terran campaign last weekend and it was kinda fun just seeing how fast I could slam through the missions.
I suspect there will be more to the SC2 missions.
Yeah pretty much. They do mix it up a little, like there's one mission where there's a crashed battleship with a few scvs and goliaths in the middle of the zerg base, and you have to keep it alive until you build up your dudes and get to it. Or the one I'm on now there are Protoss and Zerg on the map, and you have to take out the Protoss without destroying any Zerg buildings.
This mission is fun to play when you try to build so that you survive the zerg rush at the ending. I just about manage to not lose a building/unit by the time the mission complete screen pops up.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
I don't know how you could think Valve would hire icefrog to do anything other than what he's good at and what people want him to do. And icefrog isn't the type to take a job just because. I'm pretty sure he's said that Valve is giving him creative control anyway.
And what can HoN do that SC2 can't? The only thing HoN has over WC3 right now are matchmaking features and lobby UI. Battle.net 2.0 will have that stuff. Blizzard has confirmed that you will be able to form groups for custom maps, and there are enough elo and stat tracking sites for dota already that it's not a stretch to imagine they'll carry over and be stronger for it.
Starcraft's campaign is fun if only for how terribly balanced it is. I remember for Protoss especially you could win many missions by just rushing with your starting units. Good times.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
I want a level like this that never ends and just gets harder and harder until the game crashes from too much zerg.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
I love a just units mission here and there. I'm sure we will see a just one ghost mission, it's like an RTS requirement. Like you will just have your ghost and you need to nuke something before your scvs can come in and start building your base.
If you're interested in seeing images of how to make walls on most of the current maps, check out the post on Terran Advantage called Terran Feng Shui.
The interesting finding was that each Terran building and unit has a set repair rate, and there's no specific correlation between that rate and the building or units hitpoints. For instance, a SCV repairs a Command Center for about 14 Health Per Second (HPS) on Faster, but a Planetary Fortress is repaired at a rate of closer to 9 HPS.
I did some testing against small groups of Zerglings/Zealots as well to figure out how many SCVs would be needed, in case they try and test your wall. The results make sense when compared with the Unit DPS chart that was posted recently.
SCVs repair Supply Depots (the weak link in a Terran Wall) at about a rate of 10 Health Per Second.
Zerglings do just shy of 10 DPS each on Faster, and Zealots do just under 20 DPS each on Faster. That means you need about 4-5 SCVs for every 6 Zerglings, and 1.5x to 2x SCVs for each Zealot.
Realistically you can get by with less because you'll probably have a few marines picking them off while they try to break through. Still, it's nice to know. 3-5 Zealots can show up reasonably early in a game and actually break the wall unless the Terran brings a significant amount of SCVs to keep it up.
There's more on the post if you're interested.
Good article. I'd like to point out one thing though, the photo where marines are getting caught. That's entirely the fault of where the waypoint is being set from the building. If they set the waypoint somewhere else (say on the left side) and then set the waypoint where they actually wanted the marines to go (shift clicking) the marines wouldn't be getting stuck.
Just wait for the Zerg campaign.
Something really annoying that I noticed about infestors today is that they're too fat to work their way through your units. So if they get up front for some reason in a fight you have no hope of getting them to the back, they just squirm around in front of your hydras until they die.
Fungal growth should damage protoss health and not the shields imo.
I kept my hydras to one side at the start, but thne once things got heated they made and impentrable wall and I lost 4 infestors.
Although that wouldn't of been a problem if I had burrow like I thought I did.
I don't know why but this keeps happening to me, I am pretty sure I am queuing up upgrades but then later on they aren't researched. Also, at the start of the map, when I select my hatchery and s/d I've noticed a considerable amount of "lag", and it usually takes pressing it 4 or 5 times to get my first drone going.
edit: Also the inability to neural parasite flying units now severely dampened my "np his brood lords" strategy. Dats me!!
Gretorp blew up a 100-150 supply zerg army with 4 ravens. They're so amazing.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12