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Israeli Apartheid Thread

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Posts

  • FerrusFerrus Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    These are all joke posts, right?

    I dunno, but after barely surviving as a people my countries genocide 70 years ago, I'd say they deserve some peace and not need the whole Muslim world organizing agaisnt them.

    And that place should be in Gaza and not Berlin because...?

    Hey, maybe then all the Turks would leave Berlin! Good idea! :P

    I would like to pause for a moment, to talk about my penis.
    Spoiler:
  • DsmartDsmart Registered User
    edited March 2010
    Why bother Runcubed? D&D is too easy to troll

  • WMain00WMain00 Registered User
    edited March 2010
    Ferrus wrote: »
    The peace-talk has been going on for centuries. Every time one side agrees to a ceasefire, some dickheads from the other side do something to ruin it. Either the actually anti-jewish extremists or some ultra-conservative group of jews. As long as these people have free reign, and they do as the elections in Israel show, there will be no peace.

    Centuries might be a bit of an exagerration, but yeah you're effectively right.

  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I have a suggestion. Stop firing rockets at Israel, and making threats against the countries existence and they might stop retaliating.

    Israel has the right to do whatever they need to do to defend themselves against their openly hostile neighbours. Not only Palestine but also Syria and Iran.

    A Pictorial Guide to Everything That's Wrong With Your Post

    snip

    don't bring a knive to a gun fight.

    Yeah you're trolling thanks for the laughs~*!

    Spoiler:
  • TL DRTL DR Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I have a suggestion. Stop firing rockets at Israel, and making threats against the countries existence and they might stop retaliating.

    Israel has the right to do whatever they need to do to defend themselves against their openly hostile neighbours. Not only Palestine but also Syria and Iran.

    A Pictorial Guide to Everything That's Wrong With Your Post

    snip

    don't bring a knive to a gun fight.

    You're assuming that everyone in the picture is somehow involved in rocket attacks.

    Note that there are 3 dudes with rockets, and many dudes running from the Israeli attack. Extrapolate that to the conflict as a whole.

    eokNV.jpg
  • TL DRTL DR Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    when you democratically elect a terrorist organization to lead your government, you are very much responsible

    Just the people who voted, or everyone?

    I'm only asking so I know how many seats to reserve at the US war crimes trial over Iraq.

    eokNV.jpg
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    when you democratically elect a terrorist organization to lead your government, you are very much responsible

    Israelis democratically elected a government that opresses millions of people on a daily basis and has killed hundreds of children. If they would all be wiped out in a massive nuclear firestorm, would they be "very much responsible"?

  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2010
    I have a suggestion. Stop firing rockets at Israel, and making threats against the countries existence and they might stop retaliating.

    Israel has the right to do whatever they need to do to defend themselves against their openly hostile neighbours. Not only Palestine but also Syria and Iran.

    A Pictorial Guide to Everything That's Wrong With Your Post

    snip

    don't bring a knive to a gun fight.

    LOL I AM TOUGH

    Let's teach those civilians! Maybe they can tell hamas how REAL MEN launch rockets!

  • Run Run RunRun Run Run __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    it is a war. in war there are casualties.

    kissing.jpg
  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2010
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    when you democratically elect a terrorist organization to lead your government, you are very much responsible

    It's a common misconception that every single civilian in a country is somehow directly responsible for the actions of its governing body.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Honk wrote: »
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    when you democratically elect a terrorist organization to lead your government, you are very much responsible

    It's a common misconception that every single civilian in a country is somehow directly responsible for the actions of its governing body.

    Of course they are responsible. That is why we executed all of the Germans after WWII.

  • KetBraKetBra hiRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I hope you guys realize you're arguing with Runx3.

    sig.png
  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2010
    CorpseRT wrote: »
    I hope you guys realize you're arguing with Runx3.

    I have no idea who he his.

  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Honk wrote: »
    CorpseRT wrote: »
    I hope you guys realize you're arguing with Runx3.

    I have no idea who he his.
    Ditto! Though I get the feeling he's an awfully silly goose.

  • KetBraKetBra hiRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Honk wrote: »
    CorpseRT wrote: »
    I hope you guys realize you're arguing with Runx3.

    I have no idea who he his.

    He's notorious for having stupid, uninformed posts in SE++, and being a silly goose in general.

    sig.png
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    when you democratically elect a terrorist organization to lead your government, you are very much responsible
    Yes, but I don't think that this really justifies the Palestinians shooting rockets at the Israelis.

    Oh, wait, were you talking about Hamas or Likud?

  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2010
    CorpseRT wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    CorpseRT wrote: »
    I hope you guys realize you're arguing with Runx3.

    I have no idea who he his.

    He's notorious for having stupid, uninformed posts in SE++, and being a silly goose in general.

    It shows!

  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Honk wrote: »
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    when you democratically elect a terrorist organization to lead your government, you are very much responsible

    It's a common misconception that every single civilian in a country is somehow directly responsible for the actions of its governing body.

    its not a misconception
    it is what it is
    responsibility may be diffuse to the point of being somewhat negligible, but responsible we are
    I am partially responsible for the "war on terror" and the state my country is in etc etc
    that's the reality of a representative democracy, living in denial of our civic responsibilities does no one any good

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2010
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    when you democratically elect a terrorist organization to lead your government, you are very much responsible

    It's a common misconception that every single civilian in a country is somehow directly responsible for the actions of its governing body.

    its not a misconception
    it is what it is
    responsibility may be diffuse to the point of being somewhat negligible, but responsible we are
    I am partially responsible for the "war on terror" and the state my country is in etc etc
    that's the reality of a representative democracy, living in denial of our civic responsibilities does no one any good

    I'm not saying you have no responsibility in a democracy.

    What I am contesting is whether or not someone should accept being blown up along with their family because the governing body promotes terrorists.

    Like Couscous brought up, why didn't the entire german populace get trialled for war crimes? Because they were not directly responsible.

  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    when you democratically elect a terrorist organization to lead your government, you are very much responsible

    It's a common misconception that every single civilian in a country is somehow directly responsible for the actions of its governing body.

    its not a misconception
    it is what it is
    responsibility may be diffuse to the point of being somewhat negligible, but responsible we are
    I am partially responsible for the "war on terror" and the state my country is in etc etc
    that's the reality of a representative democracy, living in denial of our civic responsibilities does no one any good
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    when you democratically elect a terrorist organization to lead your government, you are very much responsible

    Israelis democratically elected a government that opresses millions of people on a daily basis and has killed hundreds of children. If they would all be wiped out in a massive nuclear firestorm, would they be "very much responsible"?

    Or does it only count as wrong when it's done by brown people?

  • fjafjanfjafjan Registered User
    edited March 2010
    it is a war. in war there are casualties.

    Right, which is why what is going on is not a war, it's a massacre. When the casualitie scales are 100:1 and 25% of your losses are friendly fire. And those are three people. Yeah it's not a war, it's a massacre.

    Yepp, THE Fjafjan (who's THE fjafjan?)
    - "Proving once again the deadliest animal of all ... is the Zoo Keeper" - Philip J Fry
  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    ok so heres the thing, my issue with this here event as darkcrawler has presented it is that it ignores most of the fundamental history and events that have led us to where we are today. There is really no longer much semblance of "right and wrong" and its more a giant shade of gray characterized by a whole shitload of retaliation and bullshit from both sides. Any solution is going to have to acknowledge this to be successful. To say that the palestinians in gaza and west bank do not have rule of government except for that of israel is disengenuous. Otherwise, where does the PLC and by extension the A in the PNA come from? Without recognizing of the democratically elected parliamentary government of the palestinian people, good luck solving anything in the middle east. Any solution will have to involve them and because of that this is not apartheid and nor does it fall under the UN's definition either regardless of what nelson mandela says. Also as long as there are arab in the knesset (there are) there is no way this can be considered apartheid. Its bad, maybe worse than south africa, but it is not apartheid.
    TLDR: Different problem different solution, conflating the two is not productive

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    So when the IRA set off carbombs in Northern Ireland the RAF should have firebombed Dublin?

    Ok, got it.

    No we should have fire bombed sections of New York with Irish Bars in them.

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    ok so heres the thing, my issue with this here event as darkcrawler has presented it is that it ignores most of the fundamental history and events that have led us to where we are today. There is really no longer much semblance of "right and wrong" and its more a giant shade of gray characterized by a whole shitload of retaliation and bullshit from both sides. Any solution is going to have to acknowledge this to be successful. To say that the palestinians in gaza and west bank do not have rule of government except for that of israel is disengenuous. Otherwise, where does the PLC and by extension the A in the PNA come from? Without recognizing of the democratically elected parliamentary government of the palestinian people, good luck solving anything in the middle east. Any solution will have to involve them and because of that this is not apartheid and nor does it fall under the UN's definition either regardless of what nelson mandela says.
    Israel governs Palestine in every way but name.

    So, what you're saying is that if the South-African government had said "okay, the ANC is now the black-person government," and given them control of a couple of Bantustans in name only, with zero other changes, that would have been the end of apartheid?

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    And the fucking Arab representation in the Knesset is a joke.

  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    ok so heres the thing, my issue with this here event as darkcrawler has presented it is that it ignores most of the fundamental history and events that have led us to where we are today. There is really no longer much semblance of "right and wrong" and its more a giant shade of gray characterized by a whole shitload of retaliation and bullshit from both sides. Any solution is going to have to acknowledge this to be successful. To say that the palestinians in gaza and west bank do not have rule of government except for that of israel is disengenuous. Otherwise, where does the PLC and by extension the A in the PNA come from? Without recognizing of the democratically elected parliamentary government of the palestinian people, good luck solving anything in the middle east.

    It's not a functional government when it can't govern. The "governments" of Palestinians literally have no other way to affect their situation then through violence. You know what the "A" in PNA means? "Authority". Israel has the control over every single resource in the region. It has by FAR the superior force of arms in the region and doesn't allow Palestinians to have weapons (legally, that is). It controls movement between every town through checkpoints with armed guards. It controls the airspace. It controls the borders and through that it controls trade. It controls building permits. It refuses to recognize any action done by the "governments" if it doesn't like them.

    So tell me, how is the democratically elected governments any sort of power behind their rule? They don't, except Hamas, and the only way it has power, like I said, through violence.

    Sure, it would be good if their governments were recognized in something else then name. But Israel isn't doing that, and since Israel controls pretty much everything, it doesn't really matter if other countries do or don't.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Thanatos wrote: »
    And the fucking Arab representation in the Knesset is a joke.

    The Iranians have a Jew in their parliament. This means Iranian propaganda is never anti-semitic.

  • denihilistdenihilist tiny, tiny little man live music capitol of the worldAdministrator admin
    edited March 2010
    I think someone should define what a 'government' is before this thing goes any further. I will say that if you've ever seen pictures or documentaries from Palestine, there's absolutely no way you could claim this isn't apartheid. Unless you're Evander.

  • denihilistdenihilist tiny, tiny little man live music capitol of the worldAdministrator admin
    edited March 2010
    For example, one thing a government should be able to do is defend its clearly defined borders. Which Palestine can't do in the West Bank.

  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    denihilist wrote: »
    For example, one thing a government should be able to do is defend its clearly defined borders. Which Palestine can't do in the West Bank.

    Monopoly on legitimate use of force. Everything else is derived from that.

    edit: IMO the Palestinian areas need to be completely taken over by a 3rd party, willing to hammer the idiots firring the rockets, and keep the Israelis out. Order there needs to be enforced on people, otherwise any peace negotiations are doomed to fail.

  • Phil G.Phil G. __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    Ok, I'll preface this by saying the following:

    I hate settlers. I hate the morality patrol people that I forgot the name of. When the ceasefire is broken by the Israeli side, I hate it and facepalm with vigour.

    I do believe the following though.

    Regarding The Wars

    Israel has a right to self defence. The fact that it is a first world country does not mean that it has to submit itself to attacks on its people. Just because rockets don't kill many Israelis doesn't mean they should be ignored. A huge amount of people in Sderot are suffering from PTSD because they get to experience this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggKOjY_daiM

    (Now I don't believe this is the type used but) Take a listen to this. Skip to 2 minutes. Imagine walking back from school, or from work, or from the store; hearing that and having to run for cover. You have about 15 seconds to make it or you might die.

    The Quassam rockets do not protect the people who launch them. They do not protect the people who live in the area that they are launched from. The intent of the rocket is to kill/terrorize Israeli citizens.

    The intent of the IDF is to protect the citizens of Israel. It takes its job seriously, and it does its job well. The IDF targets combatants, and these combatants like to wear civilian clothing and like to hang out with other civilians. The IDF can hardly be blamed for the death of civilians when Hamas and other combatants run right into the thick of them.

    Regarding Apartheid


    To claim that Israel is an Apartheid State is to claim that Israel is a racist state. This is false. Israel affords the same rights to all citizens, no matter of ethnicity. If you try and claim that Gaza and the west Bank don't have those rights, you're certainly right. Because they're not part of Israel. They are territories which, as of yet, have their ownership undetermined. Most of the people that dwell in them are not Israeli citizens, they are "Palestinians".

    It is also pretty damn unfair to claim Israel is Apartheid, and ignore the actions of all of the Arab nations around it.

    I kind of wish pi day would take off like 420 has. I could back a "eat pie at 3:14, erryday" movement.
  • denihilistdenihilist tiny, tiny little man live music capitol of the worldAdministrator admin
    edited March 2010
    edit: IMO the Palestinian areas need to be completely taken over by a 3rd party, willing to hammer the idiots firring the rockets, and keep the Israelis out. Order there needs to be enforced on people, otherwise any peace negotiations are doomed to fail.

    I can agree with the order part. Maybe not the third party stuff, but everything else, sure.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Phil G. wrote: »
    Ok, I'll preface this by saying the following:

    I hate settlers. I hate the morality patrol people that I forgot the name of. When the ceasefire is broken by the Israeli side, I hate it and facepalm with vigour.

    I do believe the following though.
    Regarding The Wars

    Israel has a right to self defence. The fact that it is a first world country does not mean that it has to submit itself to attacks on its people. Just because rockets don't kill many Israelis doesn't mean they should be ignored. A huge amount of people in Sderot are suffering from PTSD because they get to experience this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggKOjY_daiM

    (Now I don't believe this is the type used but) Take a listen to this. Skip to 2 minutes. Imagine walking back from school, or from work, or from the store; hearing that and having to run for cover. You have about 15 seconds to make it or you might die.

    The Quassam rockets do not protect the people who launch them. They do not protect the people who live in the area that they are launched from. The intent of the rocket is to kill/terrorize Israeli citizens.

    The intent of the IDF is to protect the citizens of Israel. It takes its job seriously, and it does its job well. The IDF targets combatants, and these combatants like to wear civilian clothing and like to hang out with other civilians. The IDF can hardly be blamed for the death of civilians when Hamas and other combatants run right into the thick of them.
    This is a load of bullshit. The IDF absolutely targets noncombatants. It has repeatedly bombed anything that they decide is "terrorist infrastructure," which is anything that could potentially help a terrorist, i.e. whatever building they feel like bombing that day to kill them some ay-rabs. You have to have bought in to the propaganda wholesale to define what Israel is doing as "self-defense."

    And during the brief ceasefires there have been in the past, Israel has taken more land, and the world has ignored Palestine. What the Palestinians get from them is attention.
    Phil G. wrote: »
    Regarding Apartheid

    To claim that Israel is an Apartheid State is to claim that Israel is a racist state. This is false. Israel affords the same rights to all citizens, no matter of ethnicity. If you try and claim that Gaza and the west Bank don't have those rights, you're certainly right. Because they're not part of Israel. They are territories which, as of yet, have their ownership undetermined. Most of the people that dwell in them are not Israeli citizens, they are "Palestinians".

    It is also pretty damn unfair to claim Israel is Apartheid, and ignore the actions of all of the Arab nations around it.
    This is also bullshit, it's just pedantic bullshit. If Palestine isn't part of Israel, then why is it governed by Israel?

    And no one is ignoring the Arab nations around it. Israel, however, keeps trying to lay claim to the title of being a "democracy," which it is if you're using the 19th-century version of the word. If you're using the 21st-century version, however, they're much closer to a theocracy or a democratic oligarchy than a democracy.

  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Haha, the Palestinians could only wish that all they got was PTSD.

    edit:

    what the hell, here's a link
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/15/israel-shells-un-headquar_n_158078.html

    sure look like combatants to me sarge!
    The U.N. compound, made up of workshops and warehouses as well as offices, was struck about a half-dozen times over a roughly two-hour period while more than 700 civilians were sheltering there, said John Ging, head of Gaza operations for the U.N. Relief and Works Agency.

    The civilians were huddling in the compound's vocational training center when it was struck by a tank round or an artillery shell, causing the three injuries, Ging said. Throughout this time, he said, U.N. officials were frantically contacting Israeli officials to urge an end to the firing on the U.N. compound.

    Spoiler:
  • HozHoz Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    My head hurts from listening to people basically get into an oppression-off about which side is more or less justified to do the stupid shit they are doing because of the circumstances they are supposedly being forced into.

  • Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User
    edited March 2010
    One of the big complaints you hear is that the Palestinian Authority doesn't do enough to rein in terrorists/insurgents/fighters/etc. . . .
    Another Israeli bombardment killed Hamas' head of security.
    . . . That guy probably could have helped with that.
    An Israeli airstrike killed Interior Minister Said Siam, a key figure in Hamas who oversaw thousands of security agents, Hamas TV said. A top aide, Siam's brother and his brother's family also were killed.

    "We are talking about a key person in terms of logistics in the field, and also in the political sense," said Bassem Zbeidy, a Hamas expert in the West Bank.

    He said Siam's death was a "huge loss for Hamas," but noted that the movement is easily capable of generating new leaders, often more radical than their predecessors.
    Whoops!

  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    denihilist wrote: »
    edit: IMO the Palestinian areas need to be completely taken over by a 3rd party, willing to hammer the idiots firring the rockets, and keep the Israelis out. Order there needs to be enforced on people, otherwise any peace negotiations are doomed to fail.

    I can agree with the order part. Maybe not the third party stuff, but everything else, sure.

    The Israelis can't do it, because a ground occupation of Palestine would be a disaster. The Palestinians don't have a cohesive force to accomplish it with. So its really either wait for a Palestinian group that can to emerge, or send in an outside force. Someone like Egypt or Jordan wouldn't be a terrible call, with the understanding that if they try any of that Yom Kippur War sneak attack stuff the US will bomb them into the dirt.

    Or just wait till a Palestinian group gets a WMD of some type, then watch Israel grind the refuge camps to dust; because just about anything is fair retaliation for a WMD attack.

    Or the Palestinians leave the territories for some neighboring countries.

    Either order gets established in the Palestinian territories, or the Palestinians leave/get ejected from those areas; only 2 possible outcomes, besides the status quo.

  • Phil G.Phil G. __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    Thanatos wrote: »
    This is a load of bullshit. The IDF absolutely targets noncombatants. It has repeatedly bombed anything that they decide is "terrorist infrastructure," which is anything that could potentially help a terrorist, i.e. whatever building they feel like bombing that day to kill them some ay-rabs. You have to have bought in to the propaganda wholesale to define what Israel is doing as "self-defense."
    Ah yes Thanatos, when you can't prove that they're targeting civilians, just claim that they do it because they are racist and love to kill "ay-rabs".
    Thanatos wrote: »
    And during the brief ceasefires there have been in the past, Israel has taken more land, and the world has ignored Palestine. What the Palestinians get from them is attention.
    So if I want attention I can kill and target civilians? Welp it looks like terrorism isn't really all that bad, since they are only looking for attention.
    Thanatos wrote: »
    This is also bullshit, it's just pedantic bullshit. If Palestine isn't part of Israel, then why is it governed by Israel?

    Its pedantic but it is true. Israel isn't governing them the Palestinian authority is. If Israel was governing them, maybe the schools in Gaza/West Bank would teach that the Holocaust actually happened.
    Thanatos wrote: »
    And no one is ignoring the Arab nations around it. Israel, however, keeps trying to lay claim to the title of being a "democracy," which it is if you're using the 19th-century version of the word. If you're using the 21st-century version, however, they're much closer to a theocracy or a democratic oligarchy than a democracy.

    Oh, when is Syrian Apartheid Week? I'd like to mark it in my calendar. Also, what is the state religion of Israel? I can't seem to recall there actually being one at all. I know the Palestinian Authority's state religion is Islam. Also, every fucking democracy is an oligarchy if you look at a segment of society which isn't being represented to the extent the larger segment is. Because it is smaller than the larger one.
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    One of the big complaints you hear is that the Palestinian Authority doesn't do enough to rein in terrorists/insurgents/fighters/etc. . . .
    Another Israeli bombardment killed Hamas' head of security.
    . . . That guy probably could have helped with that.
    An Israeli airstrike killed Interior Minister Said Siam, a key figure in Hamas who oversaw thousands of security agents, Hamas TV said. A top aide, Siam's brother and his brother's family also were killed.

    "We are talking about a key person in terms of logistics in the field, and also in the political sense," said Bassem Zbeidy, a Hamas expert in the West Bank.

    He said Siam's death was a "huge loss for Hamas," but noted that the movement is easily capable of generating new leaders, often more radical than their predecessors.
    Whoops!

    Oh. So you want a leader of the very fighters firing rockets at civilians, wearing civilian clothing, fighting in the civilian population to be alive so he can tell them to... keep on keepin on? That don't make a lick of sense. What makes you think this guy would do anything but tell them to continue their actions?

    I kind of wish pi day would take off like 420 has. I could back a "eat pie at 3:14, erryday" movement.
  • Phil G.Phil G. __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    Haha, the Palestinians could only wish that all they got was PTSD.

    edit:

    what the hell, here's a link
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/15/israel-shells-un-headquar_n_158078.html

    sure look like combatants to me sarge!
    The U.N. compound, made up of workshops and warehouses as well as offices, was struck about a half-dozen times over a roughly two-hour period while more than 700 civilians were sheltering there, said John Ging, head of Gaza operations for the U.N. Relief and Works Agency.

    The civilians were huddling in the compound's vocational training center when it was struck by a tank round or an artillery shell, causing the three injuries, Ging said. Throughout this time, he said, U.N. officials were frantically contacting Israeli officials to urge an end to the firing on the U.N. compound.

    Sure looks like the UN said in their own report that there is a possibility that they were returning fire from people outside the building. Actually the UN even said that there were fighters in the area. Note that there are many, many instances of fighters in Gaza running to UN areas after launching an attack, hoping to avoid fire from the IDF.

    Huh.

    I kind of wish pi day would take off like 420 has. I could back a "eat pie at 3:14, erryday" movement.
  • Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User
    edited March 2010
    Phil G. wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    And no one is ignoring the Arab nations around it. Israel, however, keeps trying to lay claim to the title of being a "democracy," which it is if you're using the 19th-century version of the word. If you're using the 21st-century version, however, they're much closer to a theocracy or a democratic oligarchy than a democracy.
    Oh, when is Syrian Apartheid Week? I'd like to mark it in my calendar.
    It's true, neighbouring states such as Syria, Egypt and Jordan have also treated the Palestinian people atrociously. Problem is that those countries aren't being lavished with assistance from the west. They also aren't sitting on the land that was supposed to belong to the Palestinians.
    Phil G. wrote: »
    Oh. So you want a leader of the very fighters firing rockets at civilians, wearing civilian clothing, fighting in the civilian population to be alive so he can tell them to... keep on keepin on? That don't make a lick of sense. What makes you think this guy would do anything but tell them to continue their actions?
    Neither the Palestinians nor even Hamas are homogeneous groups. There are radicals and moderates (I confess that I have no idea which he was). Palestine needs some government, and killing off every member it doesn't like isn't going to help Israel in the long run.

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