Im my dreams, Darren Aronofsky uses whatever part of his brain that made the fountain to affect time and space. Paul Verhoeven suddenly regains his spark, and then suddenly advances in fabrication make a light easy but still awesome suit so Peter Weller comes back. Then Aronofsky remembers he's married to Rachel Weisz and fucks off home to let the others make a good Robocop movie.
I love Robocop.
Yes, I love Robocop, since I was 8 years old about 5 minutes after it came out on VHS. An older friend had a copy recorded from a rental tape, showed my the first half and I was hooked. Blood explosions and robots, YEAH! Robocop 2 came out on video, and I enjoyed it, but something was wrong that my 11 year old brain didnt figure out until 12 years later.
Robocop, 1987
I've mentioned above why Robocop was awesome when I was 8. When DVD took off, Star Wars, Indy and Back to the future were the "Big Deals" to wait for. Not for me (I'd get those anyway), my Big Deal was a good DVD of Robocop. Oh hey! A trilogy Box set!
Long story short: In near future Detroit, a giant conglomerate (OCP) is in the weapons industry and build a Bipedal tank with poor impulse control.
Very poor impulse control
After this monumental fuckup, the Executive in charge (Dick Jones) is sidelined in favor of the backup. The backup is the Robocop program developed by Bob Morton, a coke and hookers yuppie type, and its revealed that OCP owns the local police and are transferring cops to high risk areas. Cops die, OCP gets human parts for Robocop. So far, so corporate scumbag.
Alex Murphy (Peter Weller) is transferred to a real shitty part of detroit, and on his first day ends up surrounded by a violent gang led by cop killer Clarence Boddicker (Kurtwood Smith/red foremen from that 70's show) and then shot into little pieces.
Very little pieces, NSFW?
He gets taken to hospital and effectively dies, and then augmented with computer systems and armoured robot limbs and wakes up as part man, part machine, part Judge Dredd - ALL COP
Now this was enough to get my 8 year old brain pumped, but as an adult there was a lot more to it.
Robocop was a blank slate when he went on the street, but starts having flashbacks to his murder, made worse when he picks up one of his killers on a random incident
Picks him up off the street
Robocop starts getting more pieces of his old life, made worse by visiting his old home and seeing it empty. These parts of the movies are not sci fi, its about a man slowly realising he lost everything while an amnesia of sorts lifts, and the rage and helplessness that can come with it.
Paul Verhoeven has stated that he also put an idea that Robocop was "an American Jesus" with a sword. Murphy dies, rises and takes revenge and then walks on water near the end (really).
The writers had been previously working with Ed Presman at Cinergy pictures to develop a Judge Dredd movie and admitted to Pressman that Robocop was their Judge Dredd movie.
There's also a fine streak of satire runing through the movie, including news reports which are condensed to a minute and have smiling faces tell us that the Star Wars program has misfired, killing thousands. The corporate scumbags are just that, an indicment of the yuppie shark that has been a timely stereotyps.
There's so much going on in Robocop, and the movie has such heart, that I was delighted it was still a good movie through an adult's eyes.
Robocop 2, 1990Trailer
More corporate scumbags decide we need another robocop, and after some failed experiment they get the brain of Cain, the city's most dangerous drug lord. Cain was creating a designer drug, Nuke. Hes gettting in massive fire fights with the cops, and has a massive gang including a 12 year old boy (who is a vicious bastard).
Problem the first, Cain was taken down by Robocop. Problem the second, Cain/robocop 2 is addicted to Nuke and is a bundle of gears claws and heavy firepower
Cain was used as a blunt weapon, and slaughtered his own gang. Robocop figures out that Cain is the new Robocop and violence ensues.
Some beats of the movie:
- Cain's gang capture and dismantle Robocop, throwing his parts in the street to freak out the striking cops (cops on strike was hinted at the the first movie, but now its happening). On repair, Robocop is given hundred of new objectives which basically change his entire demenour and make him useful for nothing more than a bullet shield. These objectives were added by the lady exec incharge to make Robocop useless, so the new robocop has no competition. Robocop "cures" humself by electrocution.
- Robocop has been stalking his old family and freaking them out.
- When robo-cain kills his own gang, Robocop arrives late and finds thw 12 year old shot. He stays with the boy til he dies.
- The head of OCP is slightly benevolent in the first movie, but in this movie is just another corporate scumbag.
Seeing Robocop 2 as a grown man, I can see exactly what's wrong. Firstly, its a comic book movie, partially based on a script by Frank Miller. Robocop worked because it put this sci fi idea in a world not far from our own. Robocop himself is a man wronged taking revenge, who just happens to be in an armoured body with computer enhancement. Robocop 2 does not resemble reality in any way.
Robocop stalking the family, and dealing with a child his own sons age dying really call back to the first movie in the best way. Unfortunately, the movie around it weaken these aspects.
Frank Millers involvement was fiddled with by studio execs, but having read the comic strip based on Miller's script, it would have been bad either way. The first movie did not shy away from caricatures, but mobody seems real in this one. Poor ideas, poor execution.
The effects are on par with the first movie, and Peter Weller is great, but overall the movie is weak. I nearly forgot, even the music is bad.
Robocop 3, 1993 Trailer
What is right about Robocop 3? Basil Poledouris (now gone) came back as composer, reinstated the great music from the first movie.
Thats it. Don't even bother watching.
We have:
- Peter Weller is not available, but a bad actor in a suit designed for a shorter man.
- Robocop has an interchangeable weapon arm and jetpack. Could be cool? No.
- Robocop gets fucked up again, and gets saved by Dr Lazarus. Thats right, lazarus.
- Robot Ninjas who do not look like robots. They's just a guy with a sword, sunglasses and stupid expressions.
- The movie being sold to kids, so we get a little girl who plugs a laptop into an ED209 unit and then control it. She also hugs robocop in a cute kid way.
The movie was held back by a year due to Orion Pictures having bankruptcy issue, and made no real impact. Once again, Frank miller was involved and studio suits interfered, but again, Millers ideas weren't great to begin with.
So what happened to Robocop?
The people behind the sequels didn't get the first movie. The first movie had sci fi and some broad characters, but they weren't the focus. I'm not saying the first movie is art or anything, but it transcended its genre in a similar way that Alien does. The sequels are only about the comic book tone and are bad examples of studio interference at the same time. Lack of Paul Verhoeven hurt the sequels also, Verhoeven in Robocop or Total Recall mode makes some damn fun movies with extra layers. I can have fun with Robocop 2, but I can't watch 3.
So what series of movies, books or games have you watched decline so badly? I reckon the Star Wars Prequels or Indy 4 don't count, having arrived decades later and really being a new series, but let's hear it anyway
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Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Jesus. I remember walking out of the theater feeling like something terrible had happened to me.
I felt like the kids in South Park felt after Indy 4.
Then I felt like the kids in South Park felt after I watched Indy 4.
Robocop was and is such an awesome movie. How many films have a villain in spectacles who gets down and dirty and is legitimately threatening in a world filled with villains and scumbags? 2 was meh, as a kid I liked the thought of Robo-Cain, a villain in a robot body, but blah.
3...even as a kid I questioned how the Japanese were making human looking robots while Robocop was practically a mech. Just boring.
The Matrix...I paid to watch kung fu and slow mo, not mechs and octoborgs. Fuck that.
I didn't mind the second movie so much, but it still wasn't as good as the first. I thought the ending of the second movie was very promising in regards to whatever the third movie might be.
The third movie was so fucking awful.
I think they included it in some versions, has more bits getting blown off and linger shots of him looking at his arm sans hand.
The first one was a good thriller with a gruesome edge to it.
Then the second one seemed to focus less on the thriller aspect and went more for the nastiness but was still watchable.
Every film past that has been nothing but needless gore and with a meandering nonsensical plot.
Where Madness and the Fantasical Come to Play
Great-Possibly Better Than The First-Okay I Guess-Well That Was Kind Of Cool I Guess Ending But That's About It-Meh-Totally Predictable
The problem with Saw is that someone, somewhere sat down and thought "You know what would be a good idea for a series carried by two charismatic villains? Killing off those charismatic villains and then continuing the series anyway! It practically writes itself!"
I enjoy them, but I only enjoy them when Jigsaw and Amanda are involved. Hoffman is boring as fuck,.
There was nothing, not one scene, in any of the movies that was more disgusting than the final scene of Saw
You know the one
Also yeah the plot is really meandering but not really nonsensical and by horror movie standards it has by far one of the best
Also killing off your main baddie in the middle of your series but still having a strong plot without doing either bullshit handwaving or "HE'S BACK!" is good
Jill is awesome, although I agree with you
And man I was pissed when they killed of Amanda because goddamn she is so fucking fine
Also the X-Men movies, which were looking very promising after X-2. Brett Ratner and, more importantly, the loss of David Hayter (Snaaaaaaaaaake) and other writers really hurt them.
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Amanda was not only hot but she was a good character, enamored with John but her belief in his philosophy waning.
It's brave but not with Saw. Jigsaw is Saw. About 90% of the entertainment of II is Jigsaw and how he interacts with Daniel and the others. The latest film was pretty entertaining but the lack of Jigsaws direct involvement continues to hurt it, if they were gonna kill Jigsaw they should have had Amanda survive at least as a suitable foil for Hoffman. Hoffman is just a straight up serial killer, nothing special about him.
Well I'm still waiting to see how they're gonna bring him back. But I'd say V was the worst waste of money ever if I hadn't been dragged to Thunderbirds/.
I actually enjoyed the second film (I mean, I didn't think it was the greatest thing I'd ever seen, but I enjoyed it). That being said, I wasn't a huge, gushing fan of the first film that everyone else seems to be. I also preferred Lawrence Fishburne in other films than this one (I really don't like Morpheus, period), so my favorite actor in the film, by default, became Hugo Weaving.
The third one was bad. Even with a lot of Hugo Weaving.
JAWS, obviously great film. No need to even talk about it.
JAWS 2 wasn't terrible, but it was more of the same. So nothing special.
JAWS 3 was atrocious.
And then JAWS: The Return. The only one left from the family is the mother, and she moves down to Florida. The shark follows her. It's so totally ridiculous.
The first movie was so great. The second wasn't bad, but it wasn't as good as the first. The third was where it became painfully obvious that the Watchowski(sp) brothers were lost in the woods of their own making.
I remember thinking that the Matrix trilogy was going to be my generation's Star Wars, and then it turned out to be my generation's Jaws.
jurassic park
there are only a coupla franchises that have had sequels that were better than the originals
off the top of my head: Terminator 2; empire strikes back; and rocky IV
Second film was good. I know a lot of people who believe it was the best of them.
But Terminator III. Good grief.
And I don't know what to make of Terminator Salvation. It might be a spin-off, rather than a sequel, in the truest sense.
The sequel was only appealing to me because I was so young and stupid. Upon further viewings you can clearly see that most of the cast are out to lunch.
They started out as okay movies then fell to shit to the point where the franchise was almost dead.
Edit: Batman too!
I liked parts of it but overall it was forgettable. I still don't understand why Cyberdyne would have a front door...or even doors....or door handles...of computers with keyboards. The list goes on an on.
A lot of people bring up The Godfather Part II, too. I liked it, but I prefer the first.
The Die Hard movies were interesting, insofar as the second one was kind of crappy, while the third was excellent.
Yeah, but it looks like Jill is gonna be Hoffman's foil and honestly I'm okay with that
I never understand this complaint. As I've been told over time, it was more family based, apparently Ray doesn't smoke like a chimney in this one and so on but I still find it genuinely entertaining. I just wish they'd made a third one back when it would have been any good.
The Nightmare on Elm Street sequels turned to shit real fast.
Die Hard seems to work on a one-on one-off system. 1st is excellence followed closley by the third, strangely the Gruber's make for very formidable and enjoyable enemies and John is still a cop down on his luck and in 3 in particular, just living a shitty life made shitter that day.
2 goes generic and 4...I dont know what the fuck 4 was but it wasn't a die hard film. Can you remember the villains name? No, neither can I. Can you remember what he was up to? Something to do with the Internet I think. But I don't remember.
Most importantly, does John McClane dodge flying taxi's or ride harrier jets?
Fuck no he doesn't assholes.
Bruce...Bruce..how could you let them do that?
Yes, in a thread about sequels to a good movie going to shit, let's not mention sequels to a good movie going to shit. That would be crazy.
I think it's the "family based" approach that I find regrettable. As I recall, when it first came out there was a huge backlash against terrible sequels.
Except Jason and Michael Myers were never in good movies
I bring this up every time I talk about The Matrix, but the ending of the second movie when Neo magics that machine when he's not in the Matrix hinted at such goddamn promise for the third movie. Wouldn't it have been a great return to mindbending what-is-realness if the third movie brought up the idea of a Matrix in a Matrix? I mean, how else could Neo have fucked with that machine outside of the Matrix? Magic? Fuck that, that would be dumb.
God the third movie was so fucking dumb.
I'm just saying it would be like beating a dead horse with a butcher machete glove.
I'm with the others--Ghostbusters II, while definitely not as good as the sequel, is still a damn fine movie.
Run DMC also make everything better. Very enjoyable montage scene (and I usually hate those).
Rob Zombie's Halloween II is probably one of the worst things I've seen in years. It's really hard to encapsulate just how bad he screwed it up. Even more infuriating was the fact that he was damn proud of that movie. ugh.