No, no, there are waaaay more characters to keep track of than that.
You know what we need? We need some sort of digitized cork board where we can keep pictures and bios of all the characters and tie yarn between their thumb-tacks so we know who is related to who. And then when they're knocked off we can draw an X through their picture and pen a brief explanation of the who/what/where/when/why of the events surrounding their deaths.
Barring that, someone help me by filling in these blanks, please:
What happened with Winona's husband Gary and Wynn Duffy?
I seem to remember that Helen's dead -- what's up with Arlo?
Wynn Duffy is not only coming back this season, he's supposed to be one of the main villains, working immediately below McDonough's character. Gary was told to run away so Winona wouldn't have to see him dead or spending the rest of his life in jail, but if Duffy is back I'm betting we'll see Gary once or twice this season as well.
As for Arlo, I'm pretty sure he's still working as one of Boyd's right-hand men, along with Devil and Johnny. He also wanted to get Dickie for what he did to Helen.
Also, there's the new Deputy of the Bennett holler that was paid off by Boyd, so there may still be something going on with him as well.
And yes, we need more of the other Deputies this season.
I'd be interesting if, not this season, but maybe somewhere down the road, Art retires and Rachel becomes the new chief. Then we'd get to see how she would deal with all the trouble Raylan causes.
Raylen doesn't cause trouble! He just solves things more like a sherriff of old than a deputy of today. I mean honestly Harlan is a horrible place, if everyone was shot dead in that county it would be a good start, yes even the children, especially the children!
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I like Winona. Especially over Ava who was always super fucking annoying, I grew up with women like Ava, their affection bends in the wind. If you ever saw Apaloosa, they are basically Renee Zellwiggers character from that.
Winona's not that much better in my opinion, though. Or at least that's how I remember it -- a total inability to either own or deal with her own personal fuck-ups, so she has to depend on Raylan to clean up her mess for her.
Mags was a great character (and to an extend, so was Helen) because they were both living in a Man's World, and Mags in particular was playing the game better than the menfolk did. Even Loretta was the sort of person to try and solve her own problems, but whenever the going got tough for Winona, her solution was to run to Raylan and beg for help.
The writers have done a pretty good job with creating strong female characters so far, though, so I'm hopeful that we'll get someone new.
That's not really fair though Sammy, I mean when your ex husband is Raylen Givens its hard to not run to him for just about everything. Besides Winona is a lot more attractive than Ava with less creepy Crowder sex.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
That's not really fair though Sammy, I mean when your ex husband is Raylen Givens its hard to not run to him for just about everything. Besides Winona is a lot more attractive than Ava with less creepy Crowder sex.
Raylan should have kicked her to the curb after she stole money from the evidence locker and gone off to have blissful, uncomplicated sex with Rebecca Creskoff's character for the balance of the season.
That's not really fair though Sammy, I mean when your ex husband is Raylen Givens its hard to not run to him for just about everything. Besides Winona is a lot more attractive than Ava with less creepy Crowder sex.
Raylan should have kicked her to the curb after she stole money from the evidence locker and gone off to have blissful, uncomplicated sex with Rebecca Creskoff's character for the balance of the season.
But that's not Raylen as a character though Sammy, even if it wasn't his mistake he still had to fix it. It's what he does, Raylen helps flawed people. Its why he couldn't kill Boyd or his father, even though they are both fucked up people, he wanted to give them a choice. Though Arlo better watch out I think he's about to get get an Oedipus hello from Raylen.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Yes well that and a tenuous relationship between what he knows to be legal and what he believes to be ethical are both of his major flaws. Which is totally what you want in the hero of a post-modern Western set in East Kentucky! I just also want a post-modern female lead and not the sort of chick who gets her skinny little ass tied to the train tracks every other week.
Raylen doesn't cause trouble! He just solves things more like a sherriff of old than a deputy of today. I mean honestly Harlan is a horrible place, if everyone was shot dead in that county it would be a good start, yes even the children, especially the children!
But at the same time, we're clearly seeing in the second half of season 2 that his refusal to do things by the book is starting to have some pretty bad consequences. Hell, that's not even a new thing, we've known that since season 1 when his actions led to Boyd's release. I think Art is right when he says he doesn't expect Raylan to get old enough for the two to tell war stories. Part of me wonders if Raylan can get out of this show alive and uncrippled. Also, the really masterful plotting of this last season has me wondering if they've thought of an ultimate end game yet.
It kind of feels like the thing with Winona was the dam breaking. I'd bet we'll see an even less regulated Raylan this season. Eventually he's just going to become a straight up vigilante, which is honestly something I was hoping for from Boyd for the longest time. He'd hint at it, then draw back, then hint at it again, and then he straight up relapsed into full criminality. I kind of hope we get some of the moral/honorbound stuff back from Boyd really quickly this season.
It kind of feels like the thing with Winona was the dam breaking. I'd bet we'll see an even less regulated Raylan this season. Eventually he's just going to become a straight up vigilante, which is honestly something I was hoping for from Boyd for the longest time. He'd hint at it, then draw back, then hint at it again, and then he straight up relapsed into full criminality. I kind of hope we get some of the moral/honorbound stuff back from Boyd really quickly this season.
I'd personally like to see Boyd eat a bullet fairly early, he's served his purpose and gone back to being a bad person and got Raylen's Aunt Helen killed in the crossfire. Time to get a Tommy Buck goodbye.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I like Winona. Especially over Ava who was always super fucking annoying, I grew up with women like Ava, their affection bends in the wind. If you ever saw Apaloosa, they are basically Renee Zellwiggers character from that.
I'd like more of the other deputies this season, but primarily I want more Raylen stare downs. He had an off season of shooting people in season 2, and he needs to up the body count.
I don't remember how long it took for him to actually start shooting people in Season 2. I know he went a good few episodes of going out of his way to not shoot people.
Hmm.....from checking wiki I think it was like episode 9.
When he shoots Coover and dumps his body down a mineshaft.
He had shot at people earlier, like the guy who killed the black deputies relative (I forget her name), but yeah season 2 did not have the same kind of body count or Raylen violence as season 1. And I felt it lacked for it.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
speaking of which, Justified needs a better theme song
Eh, I think the opening theme does an okay job at hinting a bluegrass or country without actually being either of those things in a way that would alienate viewers who don't actually come from the Appalachians.
Though personally I think they could get a few country converts if they paid Zac Brown to write a themesong for it.
edit: ooh, ooh! Or Raylan can finally ditch Winona and they can tie in Zac Brown's Colder Weather as he drives off and the credits roll.
He had shot at people earlier, like the guy who killed the black deputies relative (I forget her name), but yeah season 2 did not have the same kind of body count or Raylen violence as season 1. And I felt it lacked for it.
I know there were a couple cases where he was with another deputy and he let the other one take the shot. I know the other male deputy is supposed to be a ridiculously good shot, at least with a long arm, but I read that EMT episode as Raylin wanting the other deputy to take the shot because he didn't want to.
It almost seemed like an overreaction to too much Raylen violence in Season 1. But honestly one of my favorite eps was the episode with the Dentist, that had two people straight murdered in the street western style. So I want more tough talk and quick draws damn it!
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I was fine with the lesser violence because the season... errr... justified it. But once upon a time I was hoping that we'd get some boss shoot-outs pretty often, like Bulletville or even the scene between the deputies and Boyd's men in the pilot.
Maybe this season. I'm hoping for Walking Tall, whoever said it, and also that the promo of Raylan and Boyd just shooting guns isn't just a promo.
And Preacher, I can kind of see your issue with Boyd, he's certainly a character that has the potential to go really wonky if he sticks around too long. But if he teams up with Raylan one more time in this season to keep these new guys and the Dixie Mob out of Harlan, then at least we're looking at a season 4 that will be a final, ballsy confrontation between Boyd and Raylan. Anything else might not make sense or would feel like rehashing the same shit some more.
The problem is, once Boyd is gone, where does the show go? We can't just have new threats roll into town every season; that gets really hack-y.
Hard to believe that originally Boyd was going to die in the pilot.
Also, I just want to remind everyone that one of the guys from Toto does the soundtrack to this show. I find that hard to believe as well.
It almost seemed like an overreaction to too much Raylen violence in Season 1. But honestly one of my favorite eps was the episode with the Dentist, that had two people straight murdered in the street western style. So I want more tough talk and quick draws damn it!
Wait, wait...who the fuck thought there was too much Raylan violence in season one?
Because that fucker needs to be shot.
As for the theme song, it works. I'm never going to download it to my iPod, or anything, but I feel like it fits well enough with the show and at this point it's familiar. I wouldn't change it.
I don't think Boyd is the central character, nor is Harlan county. The show can move Raylen wherever they want. Its kind of like Leonard explained to Olyphant about the Hat, its just a hat its not the character. Justified needs to be real careful in not getting tied to Harlan County.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
It almost seemed like an overreaction to too much Raylen violence in Season 1. But honestly one of my favorite eps was the episode with the Dentist, that had two people straight murdered in the street western style. So I want more tough talk and quick draws damn it!
That was the reason one of my friends stopped watching - he feels he was promised near-weekly Raylan shoot-outs from the early eps and wasn't getting that. I like action, but I'm also fine with how things have been paced.
Last pint: Turmoil CDA / Barley Brown's - Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
I'm not saying it has to go to wall to wall shootings, and I enjoyed season 2, I just think it went a little too cerebral and not enough action. Also I'll admit Mags death was anticlimatic, made sense for her character, but anticlimatic all the same.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
It almost seemed like an overreaction to too much Raylen violence in Season 1. But honestly one of my favorite eps was the episode with the Dentist, that had two people straight murdered in the street western style. So I want more tough talk and quick draws damn it!
That was the reason one of my friends stopped watching - he feels he was promised near-weekly Raylan shoot-outs from the early eps and wasn't getting that. I like action, but I'm also fine with how things have been paced.
I think it would be real hard to have that and have Raylan stay anywhere near as "real" a character as he is. Which is part of the reason why he's awesome.
I don't think Boyd is the central character, nor is Harlan county. The show can move Raylen wherever they want. Its kind of like Leonard explained to Olyphant about the Hat, its just a hat its not the character. Justified needs to be real careful in not getting tied to Harlan County.
I respectfully disagree on both of those fronts. As far as this show itself goes, Harlan is pretty much the core and Boyd has become just as important as Raylan. And yeah, we saw Raylan move around some early on in Season 1, but they went out of their way to shoot the entire title sequence in the real Harlan, so I think that would be pretty important to them as a central location.
The problem is, once Boyd is gone, where does the show go? We can't just have new threats roll into town every season; that gets really hack-y.
He's an important foil for Raylan, the narrative wouldn't be nearly as good without him in it.
I think somehow they have to ultimately destroy one another, and that's how the series will end. Maybe they'll kill each other, maybe they'll get one another killed.
It almost seemed like an overreaction to too much Raylen violence in Season 1. But honestly one of my favorite eps was the episode with the Dentist, that had two people straight murdered in the street western style. So I want more tough talk and quick draws damn it!
That was the reason one of my friends stopped watching - he feels he was promised near-weekly Raylan shoot-outs from the early eps and wasn't getting that. I like action, but I'm also fine with how things have been paced.
I think it would be real hard to have that and have Raylan stay anywhere near as "real" a character as he is. Which is part of the reason why he's awesome.
And that's exactly my thought. Weekly shootings without repercussions (like internal investigations by law enforcement because we're talking a body every other day here) would make this show into something different. Kind of like Hadji mentioning Boyd getting whacked in the first episode. Totally different animal. One that might appeal to people on the fence or viewers geared for that, but it's not the show we're watching and enjoying.
The Judge on
Last pint: Turmoil CDA / Barley Brown's - Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
He drives off into the sunset. Its a western after all.
You know him dieing and riding off into the sunset don't need to be mutually exclusive.
True, but I still get the feeling that'll be the ending. A climax of sorts and then him still as a marshal driving into the sunset on his way to a new post or something else.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
And here's another interesting article with some insights as to the locations and setting of Kentucky, as well as how they choose to balance the procedural and serial elements of the show.
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
He drives off into the sunset. Its a western after all.
You know him dieing and riding off into the sunset don't need to be mutually exclusive.
True, but I still get the feeling that'll be the ending. A climax of sorts and then him still as a marshal driving into the sunset on his way to a new post or something else.
I just don't see it. Guys like him don't get the happy ending. They just keep butting their head against something till someone faster and luckier gets them.
I just don't see it. Guys like him don't get the happy ending. They just keep butting their head against something till someone faster and luckier gets them.
I just get the feeling this is more Gary Cooper than Shane.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
He drives off into the sunset. Its a western after all.
You know him dieing and riding off into the sunset don't need to be mutually exclusive.
True, but I still get the feeling that'll be the ending. A climax of sorts and then him still as a marshal driving into the sunset on his way to a new post or something else.
I probably used up all my "successfully predict the exact ending" credits after guessing how Battlestar Galactica was going to end by the third repetition of the phrase "all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again," but I can't see the show ending happily for Raylan. Even if he had the chance to get out of Harlan, he wouldn't survive as a law enforcement officer. One of the overaching sources of conflict in this show is the juxtaposition between the Wild West attitude of isolated Harlan County's native sons and daughters as well as the heavily-regulated, by-the-book mentality of the Federal Government beyond its borders (as represented by the various Assistant U.S. Attorneys who show up everytime Raylan guns someone else down). Someone like him can't exist in a place with three competing local news broadcasts and its own chapter of the ACLU. When that by-the-book, law-and-order presence becomes too immediate, Raylan can't be who he is anymore.
That's precisely why he was sent back to Harlan from Miami in season 1, and why he was constrained by all the Federal scrutiny in season 2.
My guess? Raylan kills Boyd in cold blood and won't get off the hook for it this time. He's hunted down by the Marshals, but rather than go to jail, he suicides by cop.
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
I just don't see it. Guys like him don't get the happy ending. They just keep butting their head against something till someone faster and luckier gets them.
I just get the feeling this is more Gary Cooper than Shane.
Dude, he's not Gary Cooper. Raylen has a self-destructive streak in him, and unless he works that out then he'll keep throwing himself into those situations. Cooper's Sheriff was bound by duty, and Raylen is too but Cooper could walk away from it and I just don't think Raylen can. I think he'll just keep throwing himself at the darkness till it wins.
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Wynn Duffy is not only coming back this season, he's supposed to be one of the main villains, working immediately below McDonough's character. Gary was told to run away so Winona wouldn't have to see him dead or spending the rest of his life in jail, but if Duffy is back I'm betting we'll see Gary once or twice this season as well.
As for Arlo, I'm pretty sure he's still working as one of Boyd's right-hand men, along with Devil and Johnny. He also wanted to get Dickie for what he did to Helen.
Also, there's the new Deputy of the Bennett holler that was paid off by Boyd, so there may still be something going on with him as well.
I'd be interesting if, not this season, but maybe somewhere down the road, Art retires and Rachel becomes the new chief. Then we'd get to see how she would deal with all the trouble Raylan causes.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Winona's not that much better in my opinion, though. Or at least that's how I remember it -- a total inability to either own or deal with her own personal fuck-ups, so she has to depend on Raylan to clean up her mess for her.
Mags was a great character (and to an extend, so was Helen) because they were both living in a Man's World, and Mags in particular was playing the game better than the menfolk did. Even Loretta was the sort of person to try and solve her own problems, but whenever the going got tough for Winona, her solution was to run to Raylan and beg for help.
The writers have done a pretty good job with creating strong female characters so far, though, so I'm hopeful that we'll get someone new.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Raylan should have kicked her to the curb after she stole money from the evidence locker and gone off to have blissful, uncomplicated sex with Rebecca Creskoff's character for the balance of the season.
But that's not Raylen as a character though Sammy, even if it wasn't his mistake he still had to fix it. It's what he does, Raylen helps flawed people. Its why he couldn't kill Boyd or his father, even though they are both fucked up people, he wanted to give them a choice. Though Arlo better watch out I think he's about to get get an Oedipus hello from Raylen.
pleasepaypreacher.net
But at the same time, we're clearly seeing in the second half of season 2 that his refusal to do things by the book is starting to have some pretty bad consequences. Hell, that's not even a new thing, we've known that since season 1 when his actions led to Boyd's release. I think Art is right when he says he doesn't expect Raylan to get old enough for the two to tell war stories. Part of me wonders if Raylan can get out of this show alive and uncrippled. Also, the really masterful plotting of this last season has me wondering if they've thought of an ultimate end game yet.
pleasepaypreacher.net
speaking of which, Justified needs a better theme song
I'd personally like to see Boyd eat a bullet fairly early, he's served his purpose and gone back to being a bad person and got Raylen's Aunt Helen killed in the crossfire. Time to get a Tommy Buck goodbye.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I don't remember how long it took for him to actually start shooting people in Season 2. I know he went a good few episodes of going out of his way to not shoot people.
Hmm.....from checking wiki I think it was like episode 9.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Eh, I think the opening theme does an okay job at hinting a bluegrass or country without actually being either of those things in a way that would alienate viewers who don't actually come from the Appalachians.
Though personally I think they could get a few country converts if they paid Zac Brown to write a themesong for it.
edit: ooh, ooh! Or Raylan can finally ditch Winona and they can tie in Zac Brown's Colder Weather as he drives off and the credits roll.
Seriously, it's a pretty good song.
I know there were a couple cases where he was with another deputy and he let the other one take the shot. I know the other male deputy is supposed to be a ridiculously good shot, at least with a long arm, but I read that EMT episode as Raylin wanting the other deputy to take the shot because he didn't want to.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Maybe this season. I'm hoping for Walking Tall, whoever said it, and also that the promo of Raylan and Boyd just shooting guns isn't just a promo.
And Preacher, I can kind of see your issue with Boyd, he's certainly a character that has the potential to go really wonky if he sticks around too long. But if he teams up with Raylan one more time in this season to keep these new guys and the Dixie Mob out of Harlan, then at least we're looking at a season 4 that will be a final, ballsy confrontation between Boyd and Raylan. Anything else might not make sense or would feel like rehashing the same shit some more.
The problem is, once Boyd is gone, where does the show go? We can't just have new threats roll into town every season; that gets really hack-y.
Hard to believe that originally Boyd was going to die in the pilot.
Also, I just want to remind everyone that one of the guys from Toto does the soundtrack to this show. I find that hard to believe as well.
Wait, wait...who the fuck thought there was too much Raylan violence in season one?
Because that fucker needs to be shot.
As for the theme song, it works. I'm never going to download it to my iPod, or anything, but I feel like it fits well enough with the show and at this point it's familiar. I wouldn't change it.
pleasepaypreacher.net
That was the reason one of my friends stopped watching - he feels he was promised near-weekly Raylan shoot-outs from the early eps and wasn't getting that. I like action, but I'm also fine with how things have been paced.
True.
I kinda feel like Judge was saying...the second season didn't deliver on the promise of the first, which was Raylan shootin' mofos.
But it's still a good show, regardless. Just a different one.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I think it would be real hard to have that and have Raylan stay anywhere near as "real" a character as he is. Which is part of the reason why he's awesome.
I respectfully disagree on both of those fronts. As far as this show itself goes, Harlan is pretty much the core and Boyd has become just as important as Raylan. And yeah, we saw Raylan move around some early on in Season 1, but they went out of their way to shoot the entire title sequence in the real Harlan, so I think that would be pretty important to them as a central location.
He's an important foil for Raylan, the narrative wouldn't be nearly as good without him in it.
I think somehow they have to ultimately destroy one another, and that's how the series will end. Maybe they'll kill each other, maybe they'll get one another killed.
I wonder what that show is like.
You know him dieing and riding off into the sunset don't need to be mutually exclusive.
And that's exactly my thought. Weekly shootings without repercussions (like internal investigations by law enforcement because we're talking a body every other day here) would make this show into something different. Kind of like Hadji mentioning Boyd getting whacked in the first episode. Totally different animal. One that might appeal to people on the fence or viewers geared for that, but it's not the show we're watching and enjoying.
True, but I still get the feeling that'll be the ending. A climax of sorts and then him still as a marshal driving into the sunset on his way to a new post or something else.
pleasepaypreacher.net
And here's another interesting article with some insights as to the locations and setting of Kentucky, as well as how they choose to balance the procedural and serial elements of the show.
I just don't see it. Guys like him don't get the happy ending. They just keep butting their head against something till someone faster and luckier gets them.
I just get the feeling this is more Gary Cooper than Shane.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I probably used up all my "successfully predict the exact ending" credits after guessing how Battlestar Galactica was going to end by the third repetition of the phrase "all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again," but I can't see the show ending happily for Raylan. Even if he had the chance to get out of Harlan, he wouldn't survive as a law enforcement officer. One of the overaching sources of conflict in this show is the juxtaposition between the Wild West attitude of isolated Harlan County's native sons and daughters as well as the heavily-regulated, by-the-book mentality of the Federal Government beyond its borders (as represented by the various Assistant U.S. Attorneys who show up everytime Raylan guns someone else down). Someone like him can't exist in a place with three competing local news broadcasts and its own chapter of the ACLU. When that by-the-book, law-and-order presence becomes too immediate, Raylan can't be who he is anymore.
That's precisely why he was sent back to Harlan from Miami in season 1, and why he was constrained by all the Federal scrutiny in season 2.
My guess? Raylan kills Boyd in cold blood and won't get off the hook for it this time. He's hunted down by the Marshals, but rather than go to jail, he suicides by cop.
Dude, he's not Gary Cooper. Raylen has a self-destructive streak in him, and unless he works that out then he'll keep throwing himself into those situations. Cooper's Sheriff was bound by duty, and Raylen is too but Cooper could walk away from it and I just don't think Raylen can. I think he'll just keep throwing himself at the darkness till it wins.