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Neverwinter Nights 2 - Worth a purchase?

2

Posts

  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited March 2010
    AD&D is actually a better functioning system, overall. That doesn't help NWN 2 any, though.

    Any system where the zenith of playing a melee character is autoattacking is sad imo

    Press "1", "2", "4", 10s cooldown, repeat. :P

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Press "1", "2", "4", repeat.

    In dragon age the zenith of playing a melee character is NOT using your abilities. They actively harm your dps.

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  • DudBoltDudBolt Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I really liked the base game. I don't get the hate for it at all. And everything is tue about MotB. It is a fantastic Expansion. Haven't tried the others yet.

    Gather the faithful and prepose a toast. To an epoch of indifference. - In Flames: Ordinary Story
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  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    AD&D is actually a better functioning system, overall. That doesn't help NWN 2 any, though.

    Any system where the zenith of playing a melee character is autoattacking is sad imo

    So, um, both of them?

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    So, um, both of them?

    Yeah, but the intention was at least there with dragon age. They just didn't, you know, learn ANYTHING from world of warcraft. Which is actually quite sad. It took me about an hour to guess a bunch of mistakes they would make about the combat mechanics and every single one turned out to be right :x

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  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Mashing buttons doesn't necessarily make for interesting gameplay. I'm very well versed on the subject of WoW.

    WoW is not a party based single player game. The player controls one character. Its not analogous. Hehe, anal.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    One thing that always disappointed me about the original NWN is how badly the DM feature was underused. It was a huge selling point of the game and no one ever used it.

    Tube-san wrote:
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  • jotjot Registered User
    edited March 2010
    NWN 2 is a pretty solid game.

    Yes, the UI is bad. It's not going to give you cancer or something and the patches really did a good job of fixing the most glaring things, but overall, it's pretty meh. Worse than the NWN 1 UI, and that really says something.

    More importantly, the AI sucks. Left on their own, your companions will drink all the healing potions in your inventory, cast all high-level spells on the first goblin they see and yet they die all the time. There are tons of options to customize their behaviour, so maybe it could be good if you're willing to invest some time. Me, I just turned it off and controlled the party myself like I did since BG 1 - it's not that big a deal.

    The OC isn't that bad, and has some really good parts
    Spoiler:
    Overall, I feel the game suffered because they put in too much - there are too many NPCs, for one thing, and some of them are pretty interesting and could have used more time devoted to them, more side-quests and stuff. But then someone at Obsidian probably thought 'eff this, let's include some annoying stuff no-one will like, like a gnomish bard or a really, really boring paladin', and, well, yeah.

    None of this matters however since MotB is great and everybody who didn't like it for whatever bullshit reason is some kind of fucking monster. There, I said it.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    WoW is not a party based single player game. The player controls one character. Its not analogous. Hehe, anal.

    Not what I was talking about. I was talking about the DESIGN mistakes that were made in world of warcraft.

    WoW involves a class-based RPG system and included almost the exact same combat mechanics as dragon age in many senses. Do you remember the weapon speed normalisation? Caster gear scaling?

    WoW is balanced so that players gain usefulness/damage at similar rates. A good single-player RPG is balanced so that the disparate members of a party gain power at roughly the same rate, to avoid some members of the team becoming useless or being required. It's also balanced so that weapons do what they should do: a character specialising in 2-handed weapons should be able to find a use for 2-handed swords as well as 2-handed hammers. There is also a balance inherent in abilities; you want the player to use abilities (they need to be useful without being godlike).

    Dragon age failed most of these tests fairly spectacularly. Obvious examples would be archery (not able to apply runes, low damage, generally worthless), 2-handed weapons (as special attacks didn't get the elemental damage from damage auras and runes and most had an execution time, they scaled badly and eventually fell behind auto-attack in damage), stupid mechanical issues (haste not stacking with momentum and actually SLOWING your attack speed), weird behind the scene stat alterations (chain lightning being unable to scale with spell power thus being worthless, flat % damage modifiers on elemental damage being capped at a hidden value), mages being the best in every category (although they did fix the ridiculous arcane warrior behaviour). Most of this is especially odd given that they had 6 months to tune, but there you go.

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  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    jot wrote: »
    Yes, the UI is bad. It's not going to give you cancer or something.

    Not fucking funny. I got cancer from that.
    Not what I was talking about. I was talking about the DESIGN mistakes that were made in world of warcraft..

    I assumed you were talking about auto attacking, which I don't view as a design problem at all. Also, WoW is a work in progress that's been constantly tweaked for 5 years. Dragon Age......is not. Though, its certainly full of flaws and baffling design problems.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    WoW also has a user base of millions giving constant feedback. Not necessarily verbal feedback (lol official forums) but by seeing which classes are being utilised as more popular and looking at server trends, Blizzard can draw conclusions from that and similar data.

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Also, WoW is a work in progress that's been constantly tweaked for 5 years. Dragon Age......is not. Though, its certainly full of flaws and baffling design problems.
    WoW also has a user base of millions giving constant feedback. Not necessarily verbal feedback (lol official forums) but by seeing which classes are being utilised as more popular and looking at server trends, Blizzard can draw conclusions from that and similar data.

    This would be significant if I was complaining about a game that doesn't have some of the exact problems that blizzard already solved. You don't need to be Blizzard to use their solutions, especially when I suspect a large part of the DA development team either plays or has played WoW. It's just... kind of embarassing.

    EDIT: Think of it this way. The idea that "scaling" can be a problem is really pretty simple and everybody knows it now. It's also painfully easy to test (equip your different builds with different gearsets and see how their relative performance changes). This is the kind of problem they don't really have an excuse for failing at, especially when their game was finished 6 months before release.

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  • smeejsmeej Registered User
    edited March 2010
    I would recommend NWN2 for the Mask of the Betrayer xpac alone. As mentioned, it is pretty awesome. The xpacs, in general, are practically different games. I personally liked Zehir, but I can see why it wouldnt be someone's cup.

    But yeah, single player blows NWN out of the water.

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  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I never played NWN multiplayer, so it would purely be a story experience.

    Perhaps I'll ask him if I can borrow it to give it a go then make a decision.

    If you've never played NWN1 beyond the packaged game content, you've really not experienced NWN1 at all. The mods out there far outstrip anything Bioware produced for NWN1. The same goes for NWN2, the Dark Waters campaign by Adam Miller is certainly worth a play. Mask of the Betrayer and Storm of Zehir are both pretty fun, Storm of Zehir is more of an Icewind Dale experience though if you're into that. Some aren't.

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  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I hate the
    Spoiler:

    That being said, I had a fun time with the game before that point turned me off. Never played the expansions.

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  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    The NWN2 OCs problems are easily summed up:

    It was an example of Obsidian trying to be Bioware, rather than playing to their own strengths. The result was an incoherent, mediocre pastiche of fantasy epic stuff.

    MotB is Obsidian being itself. And Zehir is just goofy, but hey that's okay.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I do think DA could have learned a bit from WoW as well when it comes to melee characters. I really dislike playing casters in games (it's a roleplay thing, I like to be fighter/melee classes). So I was one of the many that was unfortunatly disappointed with playing a warrior in the DA campaign. A few more instant attacks would have gone a long way into making melee combat a little more interesting.

    But this is a minor flaw for me, I play single player RPGs for story and character development, not epic gameplay.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    But this is a minor flaw for me, I play single player RPGs for story and character development, not epic gameplay.

    The thing is you'll notice RPG elements seeping into every other game at the moment. Small bits of progress given to people piecemeal is a great technique; but what's odd is how slowly RPGs are soaking up the realisation that they can make games with actually good gameplay and still tell a good story. Mass effect 2 creeps towards it, and I'm hoping Alpha protocol will go even further - but I want a game that plays like bayonetta with a story like VTM Bloodlines.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    But this is a minor flaw for me, I play single player RPGs for story and character development, not epic gameplay.

    The thing is you'll notice RPG elements seeping into every other game at the moment. Small bits of progress given to people piecemeal is a great technique; but what's odd is how slowly RPGs are soaking up the realisation that they can make games with actually good gameplay and still tell a good story. Mass effect 2 creeps towards it, and I'm hoping Alpha protocol will go even further - but I want a game that plays like bayonetta with a story like VTM Bloodlines.

    Oh, I totally agree. I don't even consider Mass Effect 2's gameplay rpgish. It's closer to Gears of War than anything else. They wouldn't even need a leveling system if they just straight ripped GoWs combat system imo. The story/path/character creation part is my favorite part of Mass Effect 2 and why I still call it an RPG.

    I do find it odd that in many RPG's, the combat takes the same ole route of slow paced or turn based battles that usually have a strategic element. It would be intersting to have a game with Modern Warfare/Halo or Devil May Cry/God of War style combat, but with all the story elements of a Bioware/Obsidian game.

  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    An RPG based on Exalted with action game-esque combat would be both so very fitting and so very awesome.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    One dream I've always had is an RPG or, God willing an MMO, with a complex combat system like Soul Calibur.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I never played NWN multiplayer, so it would purely be a story experience.

    Perhaps I'll ask him if I can borrow it to give it a go then make a decision.

    If you've never played NWN1 beyond the packaged game content, you've really not experienced NWN1 at all. The mods out there far outstrip anything Bioware produced for NWN1. The same goes for NWN2, the Dark Waters campaign by Adam Miller is certainly worth a play. Mask of the Betrayer and Storm of Zehir are both pretty fun, Storm of Zehir is more of an Icewind Dale experience though if you're into that. Some aren't.

    No no I played a ton of the mods. Penultima, for example. Just never touched online play.

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • eelektrikeelektrik Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I thoroughly enjoyed NWN2, even with its bad interface and camera, it was nowhere near game breaking like so many people bitch about. But as others have said, paying $50 for it used when you get it new cheaper seems kinda silly. Its definitely worth picking up for Mask of the Betrayer though, as it was legitimately awesome.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Well I know if i enjoy the game when I try it out I'll just pay him less for it.

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited March 2010
    You can get NWN2 + Mask for ~20$ new from Amazon (and probably cheaper elsewhere). Just sayin'.

  • big lbig l Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    The expansion (MotB) is really, really great, and the original is okay but loooooong. Expect it to suck at first, the middle third of the game is the best and the beginning has a couple really bad parts (Old Owl Well, in particular).

  • PolloDiabloPolloDiablo Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I think it should be added that vanilla NWN2 has the most insultingly terrible ending ever. It's bad even for Obsidian.

    Be excellent to each other you stupid cunts.
  • SorensonSorenson Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Storm of Zehir is also really good if you're the kinda' person who likes the more open-ended aspects of D&D, and it introduces a bunch of really nice features like full party dialogue, full party customization, and a more true-to-source crafting system that ain't a pain in the ass to use and basically lets you loose to do shit as you want to. People give it shit because the plot isn't all high-and-mighty like the core and MOTB campaigns are, but you know, playinig as a badass normal instead of some messianic chosen one afflicted by some curse or bearing some magical heritage or mcguffen is actually nice.

    This actually reminds me that I've still got the stuff for a mod I was tinkering around with a little while ago. Maybe I'll reinstall and see how NWN2 and the toolset stands up to Windows 7.

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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Even if you never play the OC, Mask of the Betrayer is amazing and totally worth 20 bucks.

    The OC, fully patched, is mediocre. Passable RPG fare, little more. MotB has probably the best story since Planescape: Torment.

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  • BarcardiBarcardi All the Wizards Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    For a not so great game, it was pretty good. I rather like how the story turned out, especially with the expansion.

  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    For those interested in RP persistent worlds in NWN2 MP, keep your chins up, myself and others are working on a pretty neat server in an arthurian setting with whole new magic system, fealty system, classes, etc. Coming out this spring

    I'll probably make a post about it here in G&T when it is out but for now here is the shameless plug

    Spoiler:
  • SorensonSorenson Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Probably the second-biggest problem with the OC is that very few, if only one, of your companions is actually likeable to any extent.
    Spoiler:

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  • EliminationElimination Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I really enjoyed NWN2 and clocked hundreds of hours on it with all the downloadable fan content and multiplayer and such. It's totally worth it if you like d&d games and liked NWN1.

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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Sorenson wrote: »
    Probably the second-biggest problem with the OC is that very few, if only one, of your companions is actually likeable to any extent.
    Spoiler:

    They weren't all that bad.
    Spoiler:

    So basically you should have been able to construct a party of completely tolerable characters no matter which class you chose. Personally, playing through as a Cleric (which let me get away with dumping the mostly-annoying healing classes) I didn't have legitimate concerns with any of my party. YMMV of course.

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  • travathiantravathian Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Worth it yes, worth $50, hell no. I paid $20 for NWN2 Gold and thought it was a decent deal. I wouldn't pay more than $30 for the base game plus all expansions at this point.

  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited March 2010
    I think it should be added that vanilla NWN2 has the most insultingly terrible ending ever. It's bad even for Obsidian.

    It's not even the worst ending in an Obsidian game. That title is still firmly held by Kotor 2.

    Oh, and all for 25$ is definitely possible (I think SoZ is even the cheapest of bunch).

  • jotjot Registered User
    edited March 2010
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Sorenson wrote: »
    Probably the second-biggest problem with the OC is that very few, if only one, of your companions is actually likeable to any extent.
    Spoiler:

    They weren't all that bad.
    Spoiler:

    Hey now
    Spoiler:
    I think it should be added that vanilla NWN2 has the most insultingly terrible ending ever. It's bad even for Obsidian.

    I remember someone posting here how the epilogue felt like it was narrated by Bob from accounting. Shame, because some of the other voice actors did a really good job.

  • DudBoltDudBolt Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I really, really like the OC. Mostly becuase I don't know much about D&D Lore and it really interests me. MotB was a beautiful sequel becuase of it.

    Gather the faithful and prepose a toast. To an epoch of indifference. - In Flames: Ordinary Story
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  • FerrusFerrus Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    The OC had the absolutely wonderful scene in the kings court. Sadly, the rest of the game didn't live up to that and consisted mostly of killing stuff. It isn't bad but it isn't epic either. The worst parts are pretty much all technical: The horrid look of the character models, the UI, the camera (Altough those two can be fixed by mods).

    The OC is play-and-forget. Mask of the Betrayer is interesting enough to play a second time at least.

    I would like to pause for a moment, to talk about my penis.
    Spoiler:
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Sand made me laugh, that was enough for me.

    Qara can DIAF.

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