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[Game On] Dawn of War II: Retribution (soon-to-be-released expansion)

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Posts

  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Fuck me, just got around to trying to finish up the campaign, and that great unclean one is a bunch of serious fucking bullshit. The one shot kills and so on I can deal with, but did you really have to make him recharge health on top of that, and then go ahead and accelerate the recharge for every one of his insta-kills Relic? Jesus.
    Spoiler:

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    are there any command line switches to force decent graphic settings? I can change it all in the menu, then when it does the restart it never applies it, just resets it to "look like foggy dogshit" mode. I've edited the LUA and made it read only and it's still doing nothing.

    I have the same thing - it always turns down post processing and rain for me, and cranks up the audio volume. It also no longer saves my colour schemes.

    Very odd.

    running dow2.exe as admin and with the -disable32bitcheck seems to have fixed the problem. In fact after the first launch I was able to stop running as admin, but had to leave the command option in. Hope it helps, it's nice playing a game that looks nice, instead of something that looks like it's rendered by a lense with lube smeared on it.

  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    The final mission is extremely frustrating. Took me about 2 hours to beat today. Best part is you can't save mid mission! Come on.

    Aside from that, really cool, though I think I am going to play through again and be corrupt, but on normal so the ending doesn't F me in the A.

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  • Vic_HazardVic_Hazard Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    The last mission just crashed when we killed the boss, but this is a common error no?

  • LanrutconLanrutcon Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Vic_Hazard wrote: »
    The last mission just crashed when we killed the boss, but this is a common error no?

    Yeah, specially if you went completely pure.

    The end boss can be cheesed. Have ranged units wait outside his patrol range, lure him with a teleporting FC and kite him through ranged fire. You can spec Avitus to have infinite artillery and just spam that, you can spec Cyrus to have infinite mines and just coat the area with it (the boss bugs and tries to melee every single mine to death most of the time), you can chain stun the boss (this takes a lot of stun abilities tho, luckily the xpac added a ton more), you can subjugate the adds and have them tank the boss (he doesn't one-shot them), etc.

    Still a badly designed boss, but there are ways of making it easier on yourself.

    Capture.jpg~original
    Currently playing: FFXIV: ARR and Sharepoint.
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    I just got lucky and he bugged out and started walking back and forth, I think he wanted to attack my commander, but changed his mind after two steps, and then changed his mind again over and over.

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  • DroolDrool Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I just beat the campaign. Great job Relic it was fantastic. It's basically better in every way than the original DoW2 campaign. I beat it on normal difficulty and didn't have much trouble with the last boss. Kiting him into my ranged squads and retreating when things went bad seemed to do the trick.

  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yep, just double checked it, he very much likes to walk up / chase into melee range other walker units even when he has his Tzeench upgrade.

    Even in ranged stance?

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I'm a bit confused by the whole Chaos/Corruption thing in the single-player campaign. I'm not very far yet. I just completed the mission at Angel Gate and met the Chaos Marines for the first time. At the end of the mission, my whole squad picked up negative corruption points. Jonas was saying that my actions will determine my corruption, which makes it sound like doing stuff good or bad in missions will adjust my purity scale.

    If that's the case, why did I pick-up corruption on the mission when I took the good option during play? I sent Thaddius up to the gate control, which they said was an undefended position to open the gate. The other option, which was to destroy it, made it sound like I'd be fucking over the entire colony if they were unable to re-seal the gate.

    I took the option to help the colony and I still got corruption. I don't understand.

    BN_Sig3.jpg
  • Corp.ShephardCorp.Shephard Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Did you get one point of corruption at the end of that mission?

    When you do something corrupt, the corruption of that action usually immediately hits you.

    If I recall you automatically get one point of corruption at the end of that mission from simply having a brush with the boss. It's pretty much the one time when getting corrupted is just out of your control. It's only one point, which by itself has no effect whatsoever and can easily be purified off you with another objective in a later mission.

    They just give you the point so they can explain the system a little better, I think.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Also, the AI for units with ranged weapons meleeing needs a serious look at. Playing a venom cannon hive tyrant in last stand is an exercise in hairpulling frustration.

    obF2Wuw.png
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    Also, the AI for units with ranged weapons meleeing needs a serious look at. Playing a venom cannon hive tyrant in last stand is an exercise in hairpulling frustration.
    Yes, that a thousand times. It feels like I am playing Full Spectrum Warrior, or I am giving suggestions of what to do.

    I got level 19 for the Tyrant, is it worth it to grind it out to 20? I am using the venom cannon, miasma armor, ravener, force field and half energy cost. Is the debuff worth using? Seems kind of crappy to me.

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  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    My only problem with the campaign so far is that a lot of the corruption oppurtunities are just "Suck at this mission" like letting all the guys you're protecting die or taking too long or whatever. Rather than choosing something corrupt.

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  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    But those choices usually involve you ignoring the importance of the mission, taking your time to juke the stats and get more exp, while your fellow blood ravens die.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I got level 19 for the Tyrant, is it worth it to grind it out to 20? I am using the venom cannon, miasma armor, ravener, force field and half energy cost. Is the debuff worth using? Seems kind of crappy to me.

    At level 20 you get his best piece of wargear, evolution. So yeah, it's worth it :P

    obF2Wuw.png
  • DudBoltDudBolt Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    So I just beat this game, and I gotta say...

    Good job Relic. That was a ton of fun.

    The whole time I thought I was playing on Primarch, and it got really challenging for me at times. But then I get Terminator armor and everything becomes trivialized. Then I found out it was captain. Also Melee Jonas with Enhanced quickening with master healing is a beast. It's too hilarious.

    Gather the faithful and prepose a toast. To an epoch of indifference. - In Flames: Ordinary Story
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  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    Is there any way I can reset the points I put into my squad?

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  • WoggleWoggle Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Is there any way I can reset the points I put into my squad?

    After the first mission and before you start the second you can reassign all points with the button. After that, you can reassign points you've just put in by undo'ing, but that's cemented after you go into the next mission.

  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    No way to edit files or any addons or anything? I am at the last mission with pretty messed up points.

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  • SpiritbardSpiritbard Registered User
    edited March 2010
    So after playing chaos for a while and haveing that rank reset glitch happen (twice! fkn relic) I've gone back to my beloved Orks.

    Problem 1) Chaos. During my romp with chaos I don't think I lost to an Ork player once, and now I've only beaten chaos players that are COMPLETELY RETARDED. My 1v1 Ork score is abysmal. My chaos W/L was something like 24/9 the second time it reset, even my eldar score is 6/3 (after having my true skill jacked up by winning so much with Chaos)(I consider my self horrible with eldar)

    So how does an Ork player fight chaos? Or should I just concede when i find out if they are retarded or not?

    Problem 2) Spessh Mehrens. The other race I have difficulty beating. Tac spam + 2 scout squads w/ shot guns sitting behind them = lots of dead orks.

    Maybe I'm missing something... but when all these two races have to do is run up shoot you to shit and the second any of the 9 million (chaos) space marines takes 1 bullet they just retreat that squad and still have 8,999,995 more. Perhaps if I could spam weird boys that would work. Drop 3 foot of Gorks down on them.... Yes i think Gork would be pleased with that... Too bad its limit 1.

    TL;DR, If'n yooh was an ork, 'ows would yooh kill an (kayos) spesh mehrines

  • WishpigWishpig Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Spiritbard wrote: »
    So after playing chaos for a while and haveing that rank reset glitch happen (twice! fkn relic) I've gone back to my beloved Orks.

    Problem 1) Chaos. During my romp with chaos I don't think I lost to an Ork player once, and now I've only beaten chaos players that are COMPLETELY RETARDED. My 1v1 Ork score is abysmal. My chaos W/L was something like 24/9 the second time it reset, even my eldar score is 6/3 (after having my true skill jacked up by winning so much with Chaos)(I consider my self horrible with eldar)

    So how does an Ork player fight chaos? Or should I just concede when i find out if they are retarded or not?

    Problem 2) Spessh Mehrens. The other race I have difficulty beating. Tac spam + 2 scout squads w/ shot guns sitting behind them = lots of dead orks.

    Maybe I'm missing something... but when all these two races have to do is run up shoot you to shit and the second any of the 9 million (chaos) space marines takes 1 bullet they just retreat that squad and still have 8,999,995 more. Perhaps if I could spam weird boys that would work. Drop 3 foot of Gorks down on them.... Yes i think Gork would be pleased with that... Too bad its limit 1.

    TL;DR, If'n yooh was an ork, 'ows would yooh kill an (kayos) spesh mehrines

    Well, I may be wrong, but I thought you could only have a single wierdboy. I think you can only have 1 on the field at once.

    But ya, I play CSM and honestly I can't think of any single thing the Orkz threw at me that made me think "OH S*** GOTTA RETREAT!" Besides large numbers of them.

    WARNING: Picture below may cause spontaneous growth of facial hair and/or body hair.
    Spoiler:
  • klokklok Registered User
    edited March 2010
    Is the player list in the OP updated? I just got the expansion and was hoping to play with some cool peeps, Live ID is Inkyblots.

  • SpiritbardSpiritbard Registered User
    edited March 2010
    Wishpig wrote: »
    Spiritbard wrote: »
    Perhaps if I could spam weird boys that would work. Drop 3 foot of Gorks down on them.... Yes i think Gork would be pleased with that... Too bad its limit 1.

    Well, I may be wrong, but I thought you could only have a single wierdboy. I think you can only have 1 on the field at once.

    Yes I am aware.
    I've seen some success in replay with mek boy and Waaagh! Banner stun. They still wind up losing... just not as badly...
    They need to make Orks the broken race... common relic everyones had a turn.

    edit: I just beat a TS 26 Chaos Sorceror with Warboss.
    My build was -> Slugga Slugga Rokkit Boyz Deff Dread Tank Bustas (I should have gotten the Tank bustas first but it all worked out.)
    My Warboss would ignore everything and just go for the heretics (and he hadn't seen my tripple slugga start yet) so he went with GL.
    After seeing my trip sluggas he got a Havoc squad (which i assume most chaos players would do.) and i got rokkit boyz who i would jump in just as it started fireing on my slugga squads and melee them, then waaagh! and kill whatever is there with them.

    I've only tried it once but the final score was something like 430-0 and TS 26 is pretty good (My highest is 25)

    Figured i would put this up for my fellow ork players to try

  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yep, Chaos has no defense against the Stormboyz except yet another Havoc squad.

    Ork units are just so much cheaper than CSM that you should be able to overrun him, and if he tries spamming Heretics, a shoota or two will provide excellent backup to your sluggas.

    steam_sig.png
    MWO: Adamski
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  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Alegis wrote: »
    Yep, just double checked it, he very much likes to walk up / chase into melee range other walker units even when he has his Tzeench upgrade.

    Even in ranged stance?

    Yep, even in ranged stance. If you leave him stopped somewhere, he will generally stand there and fire, but if he has to chase a unit down, he will chase it until he is in melee range instead of stopping at the edge of his firing range.

    steam_sig.png
    MWO: Adamski
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  • übergeekübergeek Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Well, the $7.80 I spent was swell spent. However, I just can't get into the multi because I have no clue of what build orders and equipment I should be using, and I don't want to pull a team down with me trying to figure it out. So that left Last Stand, and I already maxed the Captain and Mek, but I still have 5 levels on Farseer and can't struggle through it with the terrible pubbers. People playing Bad Company and Ruse so much doesn't help trying to find people to play with.

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  • SpiritbardSpiritbard Registered User
    edited March 2010
    Yep, Chaos has no defense against the Stormboyz except yet another Havoc squad.

    Ork units are just so much cheaper than CSM that you should be able to overrun him, and if he tries spamming Heretics, a shoota or two will provide excellent backup to your sluggas.

    I must admit, storm boys are tearing chaos a new one, along with generous application of 'ard Boyz and Use Yer choppas.
    I'm on a 7 game winning streak now, thankfully putting me into the positives for my W/L ratio
    Haven't come up against a SM yet though.

  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    I have a problem with last stand where it takes about 5 minutes to load at the start and my computer gets real sluggish and then at the end it takes about 5 to return to the lobby, I just reset my computer out of frustration.

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  • WishpigWishpig Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Spiritbard wrote: »
    Yep, Chaos has no defense against the Stormboyz except yet another Havoc squad.

    Ork units are just so much cheaper than CSM that you should be able to overrun him, and if he tries spamming Heretics, a shoota or two will provide excellent backup to your sluggas.

    I must admit, storm boys are tearing chaos a new one, along with generous application of 'ard Boyz and Use Yer choppas.
    I'm on a 7 game winning streak now, thankfully putting me into the positives for my W/L ratio
    Haven't come up against a SM yet though.

    I'm surprised, normally any melee troops I face tier 1 can be easily dispatched using cultist explosion.

    And when tier 2 comes along, obviously bloodletters rule the field.

    WARNING: Picture below may cause spontaneous growth of facial hair and/or body hair.
    Spoiler:
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    I finally got level 20 with the Hive Tyrant, he is a beast. I was getting 318 kills while my team mates only got 100 or so as a sorc and tyrant. This should not have been a level 20 item, considering how much charge sucks.

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  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Funny, my Live Gold membership expired (I've been using some free codes they gave away) and upon launching DoW2 it at first refuses me to sign in, after which it tells me my Gold has expired and all multiplayer features are disabled.

    33tjq79.jpg

    Of course restarting DoW2 fixed that but I find it odd this still happened.

  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    Turning on my xbox kicks me off DoW2, fun times.

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  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Microsoft did not put any real forethought into the interoperability between GFWL and XBL. Having them both use the same system offers no benefits to the user (apart from possibly seeing your XBL friends list when you're in-game) and instead ends up causing conflicts because they view it as being logged in on two separate machines at the same time.

    There are many ways around this that they could have decided on (at the very least a warning if they're really intent on you not using GFWL when XBL is logged in), but Microsoft genuinely seem to have dropped interest in GFWL at this point. I'm not even sure that they care that the competing system is giving a boost to Apple now.

  • WishpigWishpig Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    subedii wrote: »
    Microsoft did not put any real forethought into the interoperability between GFWL and XBL. Having them both use the same system offers no benefits to the user (apart from possibly seeing your XBL friends list when you're in-game) and instead ends up causing conflicts because they view it as being logged in on two separate machines at the same time.

    There are many ways around this that they could have decided on (at the very least a warning if they're really intent on you not using GFWL when XBL is logged in), but Microsoft genuinely seem to have dropped interest in GFWL at this point. I'm not even sure that they care that the competing system is giving a boost to Apple now.

    Hopefully one day another company will attempt to do what shadowrun tried to do and allow 360 users to go head to head with PC users. Well be a damn good day if microsoft can pull that off and make it a regular feature. Having LIVE and a way for PC 360 users to be somewhat tied is a step in the right direction!

    WARNING: Picture below may cause spontaneous growth of facial hair and/or body hair.
    Spoiler:
  • RydiakRydiak Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    This is an old issue, and I thought there was some way around it. Not sure though, since I don't have an Xbox.

    Try the official forums for a fix, or maybe email Micro$oft.

  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Wishpig wrote: »
    subedii wrote: »
    Microsoft did not put any real forethought into the interoperability between GFWL and XBL. Having them both use the same system offers no benefits to the user (apart from possibly seeing your XBL friends list when you're in-game) and instead ends up causing conflicts because they view it as being logged in on two separate machines at the same time.

    There are many ways around this that they could have decided on (at the very least a warning if they're really intent on you not using GFWL when XBL is logged in), but Microsoft genuinely seem to have dropped interest in GFWL at this point. I'm not even sure that they care that the competing system is giving a boost to Apple now.

    Hopefully one day another company will attempt to do what shadowrun tried to do and allow 360 users to go head to head with PC users. Well be a damn good day if microsoft can pull that off and make it a regular feature. Having LIVE and a way for PC 360 users to be somewhat tied is a step in the right direction!

    I don't really care about cross-platform play so much. Although that's mainly because the controls have to effectively be hamstrung on the PC side, which is just frustrating and doesn't really help things. I mean, SupCom 2 just released on the 360, and whilst they might have done a decent job implementing the control scheme, people on the consoles are at an automatic disadvantage if they had to play someone using a mouse. And that's not really ideal for anyone.

    Aside from that it adds on months to development time. CliffyB once said that they could have gone with cross-platform play for the Gears of War PC port, but that would've added like 6 months to the development time. For the time being it doesn't really seem to be worth the effort, at least not unless Microsoft makes it a priority next generation in how they design the next XBox. And I'm not sure that kind of interoperability is really in MS's interests either (unless Sony really start piling on the competition maybe), so I don't think they're likely to.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    There's a lot of weird stuff in last stand, wargearwise - started out complaining about the mekboy but sort of turned into a tutorial.

    General Last Stand Tips


    - The direction the big horde of banshees on wave 9 arrives from is always the same as the direction your doppelgangers arrive from on wave 16. Use this information to camp their spawn - you almost always want to be on top of the doppels when they spawn (gives you time to kill them before they summon minions/clone people etc). Or you can mine/bomb it, dump toxic miasma, get the dot from LtGB etc

    - Invulnerable builds are in general a bad idea - they will screw you on wave 16. Unless you're using some kind of synergistic invulnerability, like fortune, in which case you can take advantage of the terrible ai.

    - If you are a sorceror, then your clone will get teleported and not you on wave 20. This is stupid, but it means that you should RUN FAR FAR AWAY from the terminator statue at the end of wave 19, otherwise you will be killed during the wave 20 starting cutscene. Yes, this has happened to me.

    - Almost everything stacks. Almost all effects apply to everything. If you have toxin glands equipped, your bioplasma will apply the DoT. If you have the plasma pistol equipped, your orbital bombardment does 30% extra damage. If you are using the +40% damage sorceror armour, your doombolts do +40% damage. Read your traits carefully; the descriptions often explicitly tell you information you otherwise would not have known. You can mouseover them on the equipment screen.

    - Suppression resistance is totally worthless. The only suppressing units are the eldar shuriken platforms, and the last eldar wave is... wave 12! So you can safely ignore it.

    - Waves 9 and 10 are idiot trap waves. Your groups will occasionally wipe on them, especially if you are pugging. Don't be too worried about it.

    The auto-cover seek and general unit ai in this is UTTERLY DREADFUL. To be honest I hope it's disabled, as it really is the most enraging thing. Things to watch out for:

    - Units with ranged weapons getting attacked in melee, leaving cover and running off to melee the unit they were shooting at. The easiest way to deal with this is to be quick on the stance toggle button and get them to melee the unit they are engaged with.

    - Your hero will be quite odd about judging LoS, especially around the corners of the builds. Be careful, as they will try and interpret your command by running from where they are until they are in LoS. If on a heavy ranged damage wave, be conservative with ranged spell placement.

    - Projectile spells will often cause your character to perform the animation, but no projectiles will be emitted. This is particularly noticeable with doombolt and LtGB.

    Mekboy

    The mekboy is probably the guy with the most useless bits of wargear. He's also the best hero out of the box - his big shoota and teleporta are some of his best bits of wargear. His gear progression is screwed as a consequence - you don't really feel like he's getting better as you level.

    Obvious mechanics he is missing:

    Combat master
    Combat expert

    He has no synergistic pieces of wargear or damage boosting pieces of wargear. A level 1 mek does the same damage as a level 20 mek. This is dramatically different to all the other heroes, and it's not really a good thing. He's also missing a ranged offhand - it seems a little unfair his slugga does 1.1 damage while the default sorceror sidearm gets to do 4.6!

    Crappy bits

    Burna - the damn thing is useless. Killing hordes of mans is not a problem, and a weapon that can ONLY kill hordes of mans but is useless single target is, well, useless. I have never, ever seen a mekboy with a burna other than the few times I've tried various gimmick builds with friends to see if I can massage it into usefulness. My favourite was a triple burna run with 3 trophy racks where we hit wave 16 and neither we nor our clones could do a single point of damage to each other. Needs an activated ability or some steroids.

    Rokkit Launcha - Execrable. The knockdown is marginal and worthless (other things do knockdown infinitely better and more reliably), the damage is just... dreadful and the armour penetration is no help when the rockets do no damage to begin with. Steer clear.

    Suppression shoota - this gun has one, very specific, use that I know of; sitting in the eastern spawn with a plasma cannon marine in the heavy cover at the back and slowing stuff for him. It does bad damage, has a setup/teardown time (which honestly I think needs tweaking/removing), and annihilates the one significant mekboy advantage - his mobility when combined with a teleporta pack. Needs some massaging (but not as much as the burna).

    Electric damage aura armour - this is just beyond bad and out the other side. It's not even fun to use because the damage is so pathetic. If you wear it, you do bad damage, die easily and have no utility. Woop-de-do. I have no idea what to do with this, although making it an accessory and not an armour would help a bit.

    Mad teleporta armour - Hilarious but useless. The random teleport is as likely to teleport you into trouble as out of it; although teleporting people who attack you is always hilarious. Quite fun though - so I'm not sure what I'd change about it.

    Boom Time! - something that requires you to die to be useful. This is flavourful but UTTERLY USELESS. If you're going for score you don't want to die, and if you want to blow stuff up with a huge boom you'll just use the planted bombs that don't require you to die first. The sorceror equivalent has a secondary use (if you're not narcissistic it works on your minions); needs some love.

    Dok's Toolz - These are actually pretty bad. The heal very rarely procs and is very marginal. I can maybe see a use in conjunction with a space marine using his zealous strike, regen aura and a hive tyrant with the minion-healing venom cannon but...

    Kustom Force Field - too little base armour to be worthwhile. If you want to be tough you use the 'eavy armour.


    Not so crappy bits

    Teleporta armour - the main source of the mek's power. The best of all the teleports, speedwise. I can't count the number of last stand games saved by a mek kiting the latter part of a wave around before resing his team-mates because of this. A great bit of gear.

    Big Shoota - 44.0 dps. Shoots hordes, shoots individuals, does decent (but not great) damage. This average weapon is the mek's best, so almost all of them tend to use it.

    Uge Bombs These do great damage, but cost a lot of energy and have an annoying setup time. They're decent but not amazing unless you're cheesing it. Great for wave 16 though.

    Trophy Rack - This thing is amazing. -35% damage to all enemies? Yes, please. It also stacks with other trophy racks, to a maximum reduction of 65% (one is 35%, 2 is 50%, 3 is 65%)

    Boss Poll[sic] - Brilliant. Suppression immunity (which is useless) plus 100hp in an aura (which is amazing). Particularly worth using in combination with the hive tyrant, as he has a number of hp scaling abilities (searing attacks scale with max hp as do minion explosions and toxic miasma).

    Speshul Tools, Cybork armour, Sturdy Bitz - simple buffs, worth having. Extra energy, extra armour, unshakable all have their place in different gear setups.

    'Eavy armour - Lots of armour, lots of health. Excellent armour for some of the more tanky builds.

    Booby Traps - These are not great, but they have their uses. I personally find them annoying, but I know chaps who swear by them. Benefit of the doubt.

    Battery Pack - Fantastic item. It can be used for some seriously exploitative energy passing (you get the energy you spent on it, so two orks with 'ave a taste can just pass it between them and get free health), heals friends and can top up the energy of an ally when they need it. Very flexible.

    Big Choppa - Execrable damage, great special (or should that be speshul?) attack (a 360 degree spin) and fantastic proc. Used in more tanky builds as an energy fountain, no complaints there. I often use it in conjunction with...

    ROKZ - fantastic. Kills everything, doesn't cost too much energy, can be spammed if you're using a big choppa. Nom. Has to compete with the mek's other great commander items however, and is unusable by some players because of the decals it leaves behind (by wave 16, somebody spamming rokz will often drive his companions' computers into the dirt).

    Proximity mines - decent enough. Not amazing. Some uses.

    Bouncy shield - BOUNCY SHIELDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

    Mega-Rumblah - Combined with unshakable friends, this is a good time item. It also bizarrely stuns and slows vehicles, so good the whole way through.



    Farseer

    The farseer is an excellent heroine, with lots of utility. She is also best used in conjunction with friends or on vent, as many of her best abilities only come into their own with coordination. One aspect of her character feels... slightly misjudged, which I'll explain in the wargear section. She has a lot of marginal items and no item synergy, which is a shame as she suffers greatly by comparison to the sorceror when it comes to interesting builds.

    The ugly

    Pistol of the Doomseer - It's like a terrible version of ANY of the sorceror's nukes. Useless past wave 9, replaces the pistol of the warseer (which is absolutely insane) and generally not worth it. Needs to scale or not be a pistol.

    Warp Spear - I'm putting this weapon in the ugly section because despite being enormous fun (FEEL THE FORCE OF A DISCPLINED MIND - wham) its damage is not good enough. The payoff for equipping it is meant to be +5% extra special attack chance and a 10% chance to do "massive damage" - I have never seen this, and despite my attempts to use it, I always come back to the singing spear or the witchblade in melee builds. Probably has some gimmick uses. Its description makes it sound like units you have just force pulled are more vulnerable; this perhaps should be its gimmick - would make it a lot more consistent.

    Entangle - This is just not good enough to justify the accessory slot. It might have a gimmick usage I don't know about, but I have literally never seen another farseer equipping it. It's not terrible, however.

    Spirit Stone of Vigor - 0.3 energy regen to the farseer and her allies. Just not that great, especially in comparison to other auras and what it replaces. For comparison, think of the boss poll or the +30% damage sorceror aura. I sometimes use it in ability spam builds, but I think it needs some love - especially when it's the level 20 commander item!

    Runes of fleetness - Not really worth the accessory spot. The pistol of the warseer makes this a bit moot anyway. I haven't seen these used in months.

    The Good

    Singing Spear - this is a decent melee weapon. It grants unshakable, which is nice, and has a slow swing speed (2.0) making it hit hard. Has the same special attack as all the other melee weapons - a 360 degree blue circle which knocks back and does decent damage. Like a better version of the hive tyrant's. To have any bite needs to be used with the +40% damage rune.

    Witchblade of the crone - Like the singing spear but does more single target damage. You can equip the pistol of the warseer with this, so it in the end does more overall damage. You lose unshakable however. Not a bad choice for a meleeseer.

    Pistol of the warseer - +30% damage +25% speed. On a pistol.

    Witchblade of Isha - Good caster witchblade. Extra max energy and regeneration; the hit to melee damage is significant (roughly halved).

    Ghosthelm - lots of energy regeneration. I use it in full caster builds.

    Rune Armour - Ditto.

    Runes of War - +40% damage. Excellent. Affects all your moves, by the way, including spells.

    Runes of vigor - energy regeneration. Not much to say.

    Runes of Deception - Grants conceal, one of the farseers best moves. Infinitely abusable.

    Runes of the Warp - Grants group teleport. This is a fantastic move; it lets you teleport the corpses of your friends to revive elsewhere, escape into bizarre positions, and has a massive range. Very much worthwhile.

    Pistol of the Skyseer. - Grants levitation field. This is OK, but no longer worth taking really. The higher waves contain a lot of ranged damage, and you can't afford to float there unless it's a really tight clump. You can channel group teleport while casting this, however, which is worth noting. Needs a tweak while still being not totally useless.

    Armour of Vaul - high armour, no suppression. Decent without being amazing. Useful for melee builds.

    Armour of Isha - Grants psychic shield. Useful for gimmick tanking builds while not really being useful for anybody else. For what it does it is good, however.

    Runes of the Harlequin - Amazing. Trivialises wave 16 and becomes progressively more useful as the monsters scale up in the later waves.

    spirit stone of illusion Very good as well, for the exact same reasons as confuse.

    Spirit stones of eldritch might Eldritch storm, the only real nuking option for the farseer. Very good indeed, especially when coupled with the +30% damage pistol and the +40% damage runes. Can be channelled while invisible in a conceal. This is very, very abusable.

    Runes of Wrath A marginal melee damage boost. The delayed second strike is perhaps a little too delayed, but boy do you kill high armour single targets. Worth taking if you're going melee and want to go full out damage.

    Runes of Fortune - Absolutely amazing. -50% damage taken on a single target, cheap enough to keep up on multiple allies without needing too much regen, turns tanks into GOD TANKS. more farseers should know about this.

    Runes of Ward - have their uses but I prefer fortune. Turns you invulnerable.

    Runes of Evasion - Useful in tanky builds. Not amazing. 30% chance for attacks against you to miss.


    Space Marine Captain

    Pink, the colour of the emprah. Not much build variation with this guy, and mainly ASTONISHINGLY boring wargear. A lot of the most obvious wargear synergy he has is vetoed on account of making wave 16 an UNGODLY NIGHTMARE. He's not bad, however, just very, very boring.

    He has a handy "Charge into melee" ability (not activateable). Has very, very few activated abilities.

    The Ugly

    Master-Crafted Chainsword - Useful only for annoying your allies on wave 16. This thing does so little damage it doesn't even 1-shot the imperial guardsmen on wave 4. Is marginally less pathetic when coupled with the plasma pistol, but so dramatically superceded by the power axe it's sad. It's not worth sacrificing that much damage for a marginal increase in survivability.

    Armour of Fortitude - Health regen armour? Well, that would be handy if it didn't have 60 less armour than the reactive armour, making it flat out worse for tanking (and you lose the nifty reactive strike ability). Steer clear.

    Bolt Pistol - +1.5 health regen. Not that bad on its own, just vastly outclassed by the plasma pistol.

    Larraman's Blessing - AOE hp regen aura. Not dreadful, just outclassed by the other options and not really that helpful for other players. I tried it in conjunction with the zealous leadership ability with a tyranid player and his minions still dropped like flies, so rather moot. Use it until you get the dreadnaught/orbital bombardment.

    Bolter - The blind grenades are GREAT! I hear you saying. The damage of this weapon, however, isn't. It's not worth making yourself a non-factor damagewise just for some nifty grenades. Steer clear.

    Frag Grenades - Not really good enough. Not utterly abominable, but very rarely seen.

    Rite of Swift Victory - it's To Victory! from the single player. Not really good enough to justify the accessory slot, which are at a premium due to the jetpack.

    Purity Seals - it's a heal. WITH A POINT BLANK RANGE THAT CAN'T TARGET THE PLAYER. Utterly dreadful, avoid at all costs, purge from the earth.

    The Groovy

    JUMP PACK - Great item. It is nearly as much of a game saver as the mekboy's teleport, but also has the handy bonus of knocking people down when you land. Great for stopping res attempts in wave 16. Pretty much any space marine without a plasma cannon will have one of these.

    Orbital Bombardment - the best global, annihilates everything. You get it late, but it's worth it.

    Dreadnaught - Your own pet dreadnaught! He stomps around flaming people and generally making a mess. A handy fellow. Especially handy when coupled with other minions, as he provides a significantly less squishy target for the computer's ire.

    Plasma Cannon - Niche, but useful. The eastern spawning area in particular is a common camping ground for plasma cannon captains. Often coupled with Terror of Xenos.

    Terror of Xenos - lets you force retreat enemies who get too close. Very handy as a plasma cannon captain to keep them off you, and also handy if you're a standard captain to prevent mobbing.

    Taunt - One of the most abusable moves in the game.

    Oath of Merciless Rage - Provides a little usable melee move. It's not great (and actually I rarely see it), but it at least gives you something to do when meleeing.

    Plasma Pistol - +30% damage to all moves and -100 armour to the person you shoot with it? And more ranged damage than the bolt pistol? DELECTABLE

    Power Axe - This axe kills people. It kills them very hard. It has a point based aoe special attack, just in front of the space marine, making it less good for crowd clearing than the hive tyrant's or the farseer's specials; but who cares when it is so brutal on a single target? It can make wave 16 a painful experience, however, as your doppelganger hits hard and will cut up your squishy little friends.

    Parable of the Stalwart Brother / Rite of Fortitude - Extra +75 health? don't leave home without it. The +1.5 hp regen is sometimes taken, not terrible but less good than fortitude.

    Rite of the Tireless Crusader - I recommend this with some reservations. It lets you instantly res allies (yay) but then your doppelganger will do it as well (boo) and he will do it on wave 20 to the nTh degree (BOOO). Be careful.

    Plasma Gun - Probably the best ranged weapon the sm captain gets. Does decent single target damage (although the space marine's ai is remarkable reluctant to actually fire the weapon), and comes with some okish grenades (inferno grenades). Looks like the Emperor incarnate in comparison to the bolter, but this is not the strongest of recommendations.

    Artificer Armour - Decent. Not as good as the reactive armour for melee.

    Armour of Vengeance - 208 armour, a reactive strike that knocks away people who strike you? Best melee armour in the game. They also beat the crap out of the healy armours.

    Armour of resilience - take it if you want the knockdown resistance. Not too bad for ranged players, but the loss of the armour is not so handy for power axe users.


    The Hive Tyrant

    Everyone's favourite squirrelnid. He's decent, and has vastly superior wargear to the preceding 3 interest-wise. Still has a few damp squibs, however, especially when it comes to his claws.

    - Cannot be knocked down or suppressed (bonus!)
    - Slow unless you get him articulated carapace (sadface)
    - HORRIBLE TURNING CIRCLE OH GOD OH GOD

    Don't bother meleeing with him, really, he will spend too much time rotating in circles trying to find somebody to punch. His minions get progressively more useless as the waves get higher, so you will probably find yourself spamming distracting hordes of redshirts. Which saddens me, because the tyrant guard is just like an adorable puppy.

    The Ugly

    High-Toxin Venom Cannon - This weapon does pathetic damage, has no armour penetration (unlike the venom cannon), has an area of effect so small I think I've registered about 2 actual strikes with it ever, and practically doesn't heal your minions at all. Avoid at all costs (use the actual venom cannon). Think of it as a burna that doesn't aoe properly.

    Heavy Talons - These have some pretty significant comedy value. Trying to actually kill anything with these equipped is pretty hilarious (you just chase them across the map knocking them backwards). However, they do bad damage, you have to melee, making your minions immune to knockdown is relatively useless as most of the sources of knockdown have other problems attached, and thus go firmly on the BAD pile.

    Reinforced Chitin - I thought this might have been pretty good. The idea is that you start with a low amount of armour (80), but then as you're attacked your armour increases. It also increases your minion's armour by 80. However, these two effects can be translated into what you want them to do - to make your minions tougher and to make you tougher. This fails at both; the bonded exoskeleton gives you 175hp rather than 125hp, as well as giving you higher base armour. It also gives your minions extra 50hp and +2hp/s, which interacts way better with other abilities (such as toxin sacs and explosive decomp). It's not dreadful, but not worth using unless you're playing with a boss poll ork, maybe (mitigation gets progressively more useful as hp pools scale).

    Charge - WHY IS THIS A COMMANDER ITEM. The move itself? Fine. Clunky, but it gets the job done. But taking up a commander slot when it's trying to compete with evolution or synapse? For shame, relic! It's also the only commander item you'll have until level 15 - have fun.

    Articulated Carapace - Sacrificing craploads of armour and health for a bit of extra speed. The minion buff here is irrelevant, as equipping evolution as your commander item already grants you swiftness. The ability to force one squad to retreat is not that great either. I'd say avoid at all costs.

    The squirrelniddelicious

    Venom Cannon - By far the best weapon you can get. Gives you -240 armour penetration, effectively letting you take out the tougher monsters like carnifexes and space marines, and this applies to your melee attack. It not only does the most listed melee dps of all your weapon (35 versus the other melee claws 31.0), but the armour penetration means that it beats them in every conceivable sense. The animation is slow, but the damage still seems to tick every second (it has a listed melee speed of 1.0, just like the other claws). It also allows you to hang back and let your minions get stuck in - a generally excellent choice. On wave 16 it is an ungodly death machine in the hands of a doppelganger, however.

    The Ravener - By far the best summon you get. He out-damages the others, out-knockbacks the warrior, and has a massive aoe burrow attack which lays waste to hordes. Your number one friend.

    Genestealers - The basic spam in your sandwich. Very fragile - especially later on. They are quite handy for "minion sacrifice" builds using feeback invulnerability however, as they are the cheapest to summon.

    Tyrant Guard - Great little tanking minion. He's not immortal (armour piercing attacks will make him cry), but he has enough hp to make his toxin sacs and minion explosion attacks pack a punch. His downside is a ridiculous turning circle that makes him unreliable if you are using the feedback zeal claws.

    Warrior Nest - an OK melee DPS minion. Honestly, I feel he's somewhat superceded by the ravener, as it knocks back more monsters than him with its burrow attack and doesn't have to get into melee to do damage. Still not dreadful however. Sometimes I use it in place of the tyrant guard when I'm spamming minions, to do a bit more damage.

    Feedback Invulnerability - every time a minion dies, you turn invulnerable. Note: whenever you resummon your minions this activates. Very good indeed for tanking builds.

    Psychic Scream - Fantastic aoe damage reduction, with the advantage of not being active all the time to screw you on wave 16. Very useful in many builds.

    Extended Carapace - If you want to nuke things, this is what you go with. The bio-plasma on its own is marginal, but with implant attack and toxin sacs you apply the dot over an area and boost its damage by 30%. Its usefulness falls off as the waves get higher, however.

    Bonded Exoskeleton - Pretty much the best armour you get for most builds. Its +75hp helps with damage builds (toxin sacs), the +50 minion and +2 minion regen helps with minion builds, and it has a decently high armour value. Great all-rounder.

    Toxin Sacs - Biomorph that gives your attacks a very short-duration armour piercing DoT, which scales as a function of your maximum health. More handy than implant attack against things like wraithlords, but I feel it lacks somewhat against standard minions. Not bad at all though, and very good on a tyrant guard.

    Poison Cysts - Armour that gives you POISON MIASMA. This move is absolutely insane, most notably for being fairly spammable if you have synapse and warp field (for 100 max energy and -50% ability costs). It lays down a huge aura that does roughly half your hp in damage over 20 secs - and you can have about 225hp if you gear correctly. It's also great when you know where people are coming from.

    Seismic Roar - I often see this in conjunction with bioplasma, to stop monsters moving while you fire it off. It's decent, but I don't really like it. AOE stun.

    Synapse - Level 15 commander item giving you -50% energy costs. Brilliant for any kind of spam tactics.

    Evolution - Level 20 commander item that gives your minions +25% damage, +50 hp, +2 regen, and swiftness. Generally brilliant upgrade, and what I use for any minion build.

    Explosive decomposition - Gives you +50 hp (great) and lets your minions explode when they die (actually only marginal). This is decent with the tyrant guard, who has a lot of hp, but the explosion radius is too small. It is worth noting that you can detonate your minions by resummoning; this gives it a lot more utility. It also gives your minions +20hp. It gets progressively better as the waves get higher, as your minions really begin to die quickly past wave 16. Not great with genestealers because they have low hp, oddly.

    Warp Field - +50 max energy, energy shield. Handy.

    Implant Attacks - +30% damage to you and your minions. Good.

    Enlarged Scything Talons - gives your minions -100 armour pen and a +30% combat expert effect. I'm not sure if this stacks with the +25% combat expert from evolution, but this is still the go-to option if you want the best minions possible. I personally don't like them as I suspect the damage your minions gain is more than offset by the damage you would have done with a venom cannon equipped.

    Crushing Talons - Actually quite handy. These allow your minions to heal you every time they strike. Not amazing, but I can see the use. They also have, for some obscure reason, a +30% chance to do a special attack - which makes them much better than the other claws for killing hordes, despite their listed slightly lower dps.

    Sorceror coming in 10 secs.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    The Sorcelator

    Probably the most powerful of the new heroes by far, he has some amazingly ridiculous wargear coupled with some absolutely dreadful crap. I suspect some of what I say about him will become less relevant as last stand gets patched, but enjoy the broken stuff while it lasts.

    Non-commander units worth doppeling (later wave doppels get progressively better, obviously):

    - Hormagaunts (wave 2)
    - Warriors (wave 5)
    - Space/scout marines (wave 10)
    - 'Uge 'Amma or Chainaxe Nobz, (waves 11+)
    - RAVENERS (wave 14, these are absolutely insane)
    - Killa Kans (Wave 18, but only if you lose a carnifex)
    - Carnifexes (Wave 17 - jaw-droppingly good if you have the lifestealing piece of wargear, these die only because they start to rotate in big circles without attacking anything)
    - Dreadnaughts (wave 19)
    - Bloodletters (Wave 20)

    Raveners are of special note, as they have a burrow attack that will kill great masses of infantry - and their damage is also off the wall.

    Most chaps will be doppeling commander frosted tips in wave 4, and he is indeed excellent. However, wave 16 is of particular note:

    If you doppel yourself, your clone will also be able to doppel. If he doppels the evil clone version of you, that will also be able to clone. Yes, this does get VERY stupid. Deathless makes this especially a cluster fuck.


    The Ugly

    The Sword of Spite - While not being dreadful, especially if you have master sorcery, this is certainly the weakest of the sorceror's weapons. Doomblast also doesn't leech if you're a narcissist with the leech gear, so not that handy. You can just use the passive. And you lose your palm lasers.

    Tome of Hunger - Consume is fairly useless. If you're a narcissist you won't be restoring hp this way, and you normally want to keep your minions. Never used in high level builds.

    Scroll of unholy might - an orb of knockback?

    Scroll of Vengeance - Requires you to take damage to reflect, and consequently becomes progressively more useless as you go up in the waves. You're better off actually damaging things actively, and its radius is way too small.

    Daemonic Gift of Spite - On death explosions. Useless if you're a narcissist, and sacrificing minions is not really the way of the summoner. I struggle to find a use for this.

    Icon of change - THE WORST ITEM IN THE ENTIRE MODE BAR NONE. NEVER USE IT


    The Amazing

    Staff of Daemonic Flame - LET THE GALAXY BURN! Probably the best non-global nuke in the entire game, and given how long they take to activate can probably dish out more damage than them. Master and Greater Sorcery add an extra fireball, so you fire 3 fireballs with both, and it leaves behind a seriously nasty flame DoT. One thing
    This works with the Daemonic gift of sustenance if you are a narcissist

    This means that you can spam fireballs, regenning all the energy cost of each barrage (every individual target hit by a fireball grants you 3 energy - landing the fireball on a group of 5 mobs will get you 15 energy), and you regenerate your entire health bar every time you strike a decent number of monsters. It has a fairly short cooldown too. This will probably be patched out, but enjoy it while you can.

    Gift of Daemonic Sustenance - Great as a summoner, as it lets your minion leech health based on how much damage they do (a carnifex fills up 1/3rd of its health bar with every strike), but even better as a narcissist. This works with let the galaxy burn, but not with warpfire or doomblast. If you clone the chaos commander in wave 20, he simply will not die if he has this equipped and will kill everything in his path.

    Greater Sorcery - A great move-enhancement. This is typical of the more interesting wargear design we've seen in the expansion; it affects 5 other moves, meaning that you instantly have 5 builds to try with it! It is particularly good with doomblast, which gains damage and area of effect, and let the galaxy burn, which gains a fireball.

    Master Sorcery - Another good move-enhancement. This one is particularly good with let the galaxy burn when coupled with greater, and also makes warpfire not useless - it doubles its range! It also makes doomblast give armour when it goes off - especially handy with a minion when using the reactive doomblast scroll.

    Mark of Tzeentch - If you're going straight caster, this isn't bad. If you're a narcissist using LtGB, however, this is useless.

    Icon of Pain - Just godly. +30% damage to you and your allies, including your doppelgangers. Probably the best aura in the entire game, and instantly makes your sorceror welcome in every group. However, you sacrifice the ability to res commanders.

    Icon of summoning - You get this at level 5, and it instantly makes you wave 20 capable. It lets your summons scale dramatically with every wave, meaning that on wave 20 you can be the spawner of a Chaos Lord. If only the hive tyrant's minions scaled this way! It's also good for narcissist melee builds, as it gives +125hp.

    Armour of Eternal War - you start with it, and it's amazing. +40% combat master, one of the highest in the game, for both you and your minion? Perfect.

    Robes of the Deathless - very, very good alternative to the armour of eternal war. If you use this with the Daemonic gift of sustenance, your minions will struggle to die - and it also lets you dodge the annoying 1-shots that turn up in later waves. The only downside is that it makes wave 16 a pain if you get cloned. It has a refresh speed of about half a minute, and heals you to full when you drop to death.

    Armour of Might undivided - the best narcissistic armour, it makes you unshakable and lets you toss those let the galaxy burns around like a champ.

    Robes of Unholy fortitude - not dreadful, but a bit of extra health seems a bit useless in comparison to the armour of eternal war.

    Scroll of Blood - gimmick usage in narcissistic leech builds only. It's only here because it does have a use, but it is very annoying to use - having a tiny radius and being unable to place it are two of my gripes.

    Staff of Tzeentch - Excellent staff, especially when coupled with summoning. You can just whiz around the battlefield and let your minions do the hard work. It also is surprisingly damaging when coupled with greater and master sorcery.

    Tome of Doom - A really handy move that is the only nuke the sorceror has not on a weapon. Great for those warp-users who want a bit of extra bite, although it doesn't scale with the sorceries.

    Staff of Warpfire - the highest damage nuke the sorceror has, it sadly pales in comparison to let the galaxy burn as you cannot leech using it. It is also only useful at level 18 when you get mastery sorcery, doubling its paltry range to something usable. Fun, however.

    Daemonic Gift of Retaliation - Really useful item that lets your doppelganger proc random doomblasts. If you have master sorcery, this makes them ridiculously tough; with greater sorcery, it makes them rather damaging. Also good for melee narcissists.


    May this guide you to last stand wisdom and success. I'll do some more specific build advice later, after my fingers recover from having typed this ridiculous wall of text.

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  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Nice work, surrealitycheck!

    I'd read it in its entirety if I wasn't already so terribly bored of the mode

  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Those reading this page should read the last three posts of the last page.

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