If anyone is in town for PAX east let me know. I live right to the convention center. Can give you tips on where to go eat and drink and maybe play some Dow2 at my apartment if interested.
Just got out of a really funny, silly, crazy and close match!
Props go to TychoCelchuu. Watching his shout cast made me want to give ye olde Lictor Alpha a shot. This game was the second game wrought by his inspiration. Rather, the inspiration that he talked over.
First one was against the same team too... not really a good watch though.
Just got done watching the replay and man if they just guarded 2 of three vp they would of won. That was hilarious. I thought you guys were dead until that last part.
My buddy and I have been trying to get good enough to hold our own in multiplayer. Needless to say, the learning curve is pretty steep. Anyway, I was wondering where I should look for some good multiplayer guides because we are tired of getting raped every game.
My buddy and I have been trying to get good enough to hold our own in multiplayer. Needless to say, the learning curve is pretty steep. Anyway, I was wondering where I should look for some good multiplayer guides because we are tired of getting raped every game.
I play nids and he plays SM fyi.
Heres a good tip. Play chaos and spam bloodletters and tzee CSM. Then have your friend play eldar and spam wraithguards. Instant win... unless your playing someone doing the same thing. This response is only half joking.
Wishpig on
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Wow Shep, you and Retz didn't deserve to win that one ...
The replay reflects what is wrong in the Tyranid force. Time and again you beat him into melee and "won" the combat, yet he just pops the retreat and gets away with most of his mans, costing you precious resource to replace those warriors and ravenors and a couple of scouts or guardians for him. It just doesn't compare. There is no reward for the melee build tyranid force.
People spammed AG warriors because the proper "anti-ranged" unit doesn't perform its role, so people complained, AG Warriors now have been hit with the nerf bat, and now they have no real "anti ranged"
Some compromise needs to be made in making hormagaunts fast enough and deadly enough that once you hit those tac spammers in melee they pay for it, just like sluggas and banshees currently.
The hormagaunt speed nerfs were, I think, what really effected it.
When they were fast enough to stick with retreating units for a long portion of their retreat, anything that got into melee with them was guaranteed dead if it had to retreat. Even Tac marines, with their oodles of health, would get ripped apart.
The hormagaunt speed nerfs were, I think, what really effected it.
When they were fast enough to stick with retreating units for a long portion of their retreat, anything that got into melee with them was guaranteed dead if it had to retreat. Even Tac marines, with their oodles of health, would get ripped apart.
The strangest thing about this is that Banshees now are worse than old herms ever were. They can kill a retreating Havok at 90% HP just by chasing it down and hitting it in the back.
I don't think this game reveals any "scathing issues" hidden under the skin of DoW2 multiplayer.
I will say that a banshee chasing and killing a 90% devastator is not a good comparison point.
It's sorta like how many people dislike the current balance of guardians versus tacticals.
One banshee squad is, effectively, 500/20. You will upgrade it sooner or later. They simply cannot work after a certain point (first few minutes, sometimes less) without the aspect upgrade. Old hormagaunts were quite similar in power, and you could get roughly 1.66 of them per banshee squad.
You could easily save that devastator with a shotgun or heretic barrage, or just with some focus fire to deter chasing for more than a second. You can force a single banshee squad into a retreat-or-die situation quite easily, just as it can do to you.
However, when your units that support your fragile units each have a melee unit that they need to worry about and spend their abilities protecting themselves from, then it becomes really hard to manage.
That was definitely a key part of old hormagaunts being overpowered. Sluggas are pretty similar, but their speed and durability are not as good with synapse. Combine that with the advancements in anti-melee techniques (shotguns suppression), they're pretty manageable.
Nids aren't all that bad off in terms of anti-ranged power with things like the barbed strangler. Additionally, Raveners are a strong, flexible and scalable jump troop. Zoanthropes rip heavy and light armored ranged blobs to pieces. They cannot easily finish off units as a ranged army, but how is that any different from say, triple guardian eldar builds, who have long prospered?
I do agree that hormagaunts feel underwhelming.
What needs to be done to them now? Hard to say. Using hormagants feels like a far greater challenge than it should be.
I play a great deal of orks. Using sluggas is not as hard as hormagaunts. I don't think anyone feels that sluggas are out of balance at the moment. Certainly this could be a matter of experience (my number of ork games must outnumber my nid games by at least a hundred fold).
Actually, comparing the two: slugga and horma, they probably don't differ too much; save for two things. Hormagaunts don't get a charge bonus into attack (although their synapse/AG leap is very similar and I think it does damage), and sluggas are much much better at harassing power. If an ork can force a retreat, even at comparatively greater losses, as long as one or two sluggas with a burna stayed and can press on to the power for about ten seconds, hundreds of damage in requisition spent on power nodes can be demolished through the power of the burna. Forcing a foe to rebuild power can easily make up for the difference in lost troops if you did not get to chase or deal much damage to their army. There are no easy comparisons for Tyranid players in that regard. An issue... perhaps? With the burna or the nids? I cannot say.
edit: because I love the longest of posts:
Actually, this is an issue that came up in the game I posted as well. Altogether too late, I came to the conclusion that the best way to counter the enemy's power harassment strategy was:
-build new power in a center node
-instead of working to get our power back, crush their power
The space marine had invested a shit ton of power into tier 1. Cutting his generation down to size could have given us a massive advantage. Even if I had realized my error earlier though, what units should I have sent? I was not sure. My build order was... abnormal to say the least, but both of the basic gaunts are weaker at power harrassment than a shoota and a slugga squad. So I didn't feel like I was losing a bunch by skipping out on them for the most part.
I got a quick question concerning the campaign's twist and what determines who...
What determines who the traitor is? I got Thaddeious but he didn't have the most corruption of my crew and I took him along on the missions he requested. So what gives? Is it random?
Wishpig on
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I really underestimated plague marines, first thing i usually build in t2 now. I also appear to be sucking less now that i've gotten a few even matchs, although I still get absolutely trounced when a rank 30+ shows up.
Don't know how the good players do it I just can't seem to micro anywhere near there level.
I got a quick question concerning the campaign's twist and what determines who...
What determines who the traitor is? I got Thaddeious but he didn't have the most corruption of my crew and I took him along on the missions he requested. So what gives? Is it random?
That's interesting.
I got tarcus, but he was by far the most corrupt of my squads. I wonder what happens if you make it through with no corruption on anyone.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
The guy who's corrupt when no one's corrupt is stupid.
I had zero corruption points among my squads, and the corrupted one chosen was Martellus. The story provided was he made a deal with Chaos to survive on the planet he crashed landed on.
Jonah, because like fuck I'm taking him on a space hulk when I'd either have to drop one of my two termie squads or my devastator.
Besides, I don't think he would have been useful that mission anyway. Unlike Cyrus' or Thaddeus' missions, where they were both really helpful to have. Cyrus because hell yes high powered shot taking out Havocs in one hit, and Thaddeus because assault termies just wreck things. Especially buildings.
I had zero corruption points among my squads, and the corrupted one chosen was Martellus. The story provided was he made a deal with Chaos to survive on the planet he crashed landed on.
Jonah, because like fuck I'm taking him on a space hulk when I'd either have to drop one of my two termie squads or my devastator.
Besides, I don't think he would have been useful that mission anyway. Unlike Cyrus' or Thaddeus' missions, where they were both really helpful to have. Cyrus because hell yes high powered shot taking out Havocs in one hit, and Thaddeus because assault termies just wreck things. Especially buildings.
I still haven't the slightest idea...
What causes characters to go traitor. I took thadeous on his mission, but I didn't take Tarkus on his... yet thadeous went chaos. Damn shame as he would have been helpfull for the end boss.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
I didn't take any single person on their missions.
I had zero corruption points among my squads, and the corrupted one chosen was Martellus. The story provided was he made a deal with Chaos to survive on the planet he crashed landed on.
Jonah, because like fuck I'm taking him on a space hulk when I'd either have to drop one of my two termie squads or my devastator.
Besides, I don't think he would have been useful that mission anyway. Unlike Cyrus' or Thaddeus' missions, where they were both really helpful to have. Cyrus because hell yes high powered shot taking out Havocs in one hit, and Thaddeus because assault termies just wreck things. Especially buildings.
I still haven't the slightest idea...
What causes characters to go traitor. I took thadeous on his mission, but I didn't take Tarkus on his... yet thadeous went chaos. Damn shame as he would have been helpfull for the end boss.
It might just be that...
Being anything more than "Pure in the Eyes of the Emporer" gives that character a chance at being the traitor...
Makes me kinda wonder if you try to do it so Mr. Blond Tips is the only corrupted "squad"
So, after being a bit puzzled about why a certain squad went traitor, I decided to try and find out how this actually works. Took a quick peek at the code, and found it to be surprisingly well commented allowing me to easily understand how this is.
If you want to make a specific traitor, these guidelines should help you along your path. Basically it works by checking a set of criteria in a particular order, then rules out the squads which doesn't match the criteria before doing the next check until it finally has ruled out all but one squad.
* If all squads have less then 3 corruption, Martellus becomes the traitor.
* Otherwise test for these criteria in the following order:
o Highest number of corruption points.
o Lowest amount of experience.
o Lowest number of will points (blue/energy).
o Lowest number of stamina points (green/health).
o Finally (if all else fails to give a single "winner"), choose alphabetically from the remaining candidate squads.
Note that the Commander (you) and Thule (unsurprisingly) will never become a traitor.
HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
just beat the campaign finally, what a fucking fantastic campaign, even better than DoW2's! I don't get why people are saying it was short, seemed like a great length to me (meant i actually finished it)
Really like how it sets up for another sequel/expansion but at the same time feels like you did conclude something. I beat it with full favour from the emperor still
also reviews kept mentioning some sort of massive twist!! where after it happens nothing will be the same and you'll be really pissed off!?!!? but that never really seemed to happen for me.. could somebody spoil it i guess?
i'm assuming something happens if you embrace chaos instead of trying to avoid it?
edit - ha! reading the last page here
i got thadeus but i didn't even realize it was an option on who would be the traitor, i assumed it was going to be him the entire game and was proven correct so the idea of it being random and somebody else never even crossed my mind
One of your actual party will turn traitor if there corruption is above +3 corruption and some other requirements, it's covered in the above spoiler ridden section, because who cares about some tech marine?
Playing some more mp, still occasionally getting pitted against a team so far out of my abilities reach i feel much like an ant taking on Goliath, and occasionally getting team mates who for example spam ping there corpse while there army is being decimated.
I'm far from skilled and assumed I was on the very bottom of the food chain it's both gratifying and scary to be wrong.
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
haha wait what? that's it? it happens in the second to last mission!
all theres views were making it out to be some huge crazy freaking thing that was completely game changing. I couldn't figure out what the hell i was missing
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
I think the massive twist would be that
your Chapter Master is corrupted by Chaos. It was far more of a revelation than an individual traitor.
your Chapter Master is corrupted by Chaos. It was far more of a revelation than an individual traitor.
Speaking of which -
The Blood Ravens are really rather screwed by 40k fluff standards. The second anyone outside the chapter gets wind of this stuff, they'll all be promptly squished by the Grey Knights. Thus not only are they going to have to conduct their civil war alone, they're going to have to make damn sure nobody else notices that anything is wrong.
your Chapter Master is corrupted by Chaos. It was far more of a revelation than an individual traitor.
Speaking of which -
The Blood Ravens are really rather screwed by 40k fluff standards. The second anyone outside the chapter gets wind of this stuff, they'll all be promptly squished by the Grey Knights. Thus not only are they going to have to conduct their civil war alone, they're going to have to make damn sure nobody else notices that anything is wrong.
Posts
Sir you are a hater and I challenge you to a duel
I wish Men of War had a version of last stand :<
Just got out of a really funny, silly, crazy and close match!
Props go to TychoCelchuu. Watching his shout cast made me want to give ye olde Lictor Alpha a shot. This game was the second game wrought by his inspiration. Rather, the inspiration that he talked over.
First one was against the same team too... not really a good watch though.
If you're interested, check it out here.
http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/replays.php?game=47&show=details&id=116001
Edit: AMAZING replay, Shep. Holy shit. I thought you guys were screwed :P
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
My buddy and I have been trying to get good enough to hold our own in multiplayer. Needless to say, the learning curve is pretty steep. Anyway, I was wondering where I should look for some good multiplayer guides because we are tired of getting raped every game.
I play nids and he plays SM fyi.
Heres a good tip. Play chaos and spam bloodletters and tzee CSM. Then have your friend play eldar and spam wraithguards. Instant win... unless your playing someone doing the same thing. This response is only half joking.
Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
The replay reflects what is wrong in the Tyranid force. Time and again you beat him into melee and "won" the combat, yet he just pops the retreat and gets away with most of his mans, costing you precious resource to replace those warriors and ravenors and a couple of scouts or guardians for him. It just doesn't compare. There is no reward for the melee build tyranid force.
People spammed AG warriors because the proper "anti-ranged" unit doesn't perform its role, so people complained, AG Warriors now have been hit with the nerf bat, and now they have no real "anti ranged"
Some compromise needs to be made in making hormagaunts fast enough and deadly enough that once you hit those tac spammers in melee they pay for it, just like sluggas and banshees currently.
When they were fast enough to stick with retreating units for a long portion of their retreat, anything that got into melee with them was guaranteed dead if it had to retreat. Even Tac marines, with their oodles of health, would get ripped apart.
The strangest thing about this is that Banshees now are worse than old herms ever were. They can kill a retreating Havok at 90% HP just by chasing it down and hitting it in the back.
I will say that a banshee chasing and killing a 90% devastator is not a good comparison point.
It's sorta like how many people dislike the current balance of guardians versus tacticals.
One banshee squad is, effectively, 500/20. You will upgrade it sooner or later. They simply cannot work after a certain point (first few minutes, sometimes less) without the aspect upgrade. Old hormagaunts were quite similar in power, and you could get roughly 1.66 of them per banshee squad.
You could easily save that devastator with a shotgun or heretic barrage, or just with some focus fire to deter chasing for more than a second. You can force a single banshee squad into a retreat-or-die situation quite easily, just as it can do to you.
However, when your units that support your fragile units each have a melee unit that they need to worry about and spend their abilities protecting themselves from, then it becomes really hard to manage.
That was definitely a key part of old hormagaunts being overpowered. Sluggas are pretty similar, but their speed and durability are not as good with synapse. Combine that with the advancements in anti-melee techniques (shotguns suppression), they're pretty manageable.
Nids aren't all that bad off in terms of anti-ranged power with things like the barbed strangler. Additionally, Raveners are a strong, flexible and scalable jump troop. Zoanthropes rip heavy and light armored ranged blobs to pieces. They cannot easily finish off units as a ranged army, but how is that any different from say, triple guardian eldar builds, who have long prospered?
I do agree that hormagaunts feel underwhelming.
What needs to be done to them now? Hard to say. Using hormagants feels like a far greater challenge than it should be.
I play a great deal of orks. Using sluggas is not as hard as hormagaunts. I don't think anyone feels that sluggas are out of balance at the moment. Certainly this could be a matter of experience (my number of ork games must outnumber my nid games by at least a hundred fold).
Actually, comparing the two: slugga and horma, they probably don't differ too much; save for two things. Hormagaunts don't get a charge bonus into attack (although their synapse/AG leap is very similar and I think it does damage), and sluggas are much much better at harassing power. If an ork can force a retreat, even at comparatively greater losses, as long as one or two sluggas with a burna stayed and can press on to the power for about ten seconds, hundreds of damage in requisition spent on power nodes can be demolished through the power of the burna. Forcing a foe to rebuild power can easily make up for the difference in lost troops if you did not get to chase or deal much damage to their army. There are no easy comparisons for Tyranid players in that regard. An issue... perhaps? With the burna or the nids? I cannot say.
edit: because I love the longest of posts:
Actually, this is an issue that came up in the game I posted as well. Altogether too late, I came to the conclusion that the best way to counter the enemy's power harassment strategy was:
-build new power in a center node
-instead of working to get our power back, crush their power
The space marine had invested a shit ton of power into tier 1. Cutting his generation down to size could have given us a massive advantage. Even if I had realized my error earlier though, what units should I have sent? I was not sure. My build order was... abnormal to say the least, but both of the basic gaunts are weaker at power harrassment than a shoota and a slugga squad. So I didn't feel like I was losing a bunch by skipping out on them for the most part.
must... stop... adding to post...
Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
Don't know how the good players do it I just can't seem to micro anywhere near there level.
That's interesting.
Besides, I don't think he would have been useful that mission anyway. Unlike Cyrus' or Thaddeus' missions, where they were both really helpful to have. Cyrus because hell yes high powered shot taking out Havocs in one hit, and Thaddeus because assault termies just wreck things. Especially buildings.
Yup if your pure...
I still haven't the slightest idea...
Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
It might just be that...
Makes me kinda wonder if you try to do it so Mr. Blond Tips is the only corrupted "squad"
On the second time through it was
In my more pure playthrough
If you want to make a specific traitor, these guidelines should help you along your path. Basically it works by checking a set of criteria in a particular order, then rules out the squads which doesn't match the criteria before doing the next check until it finally has ruled out all but one squad.
* If all squads have less then 3 corruption, Martellus becomes the traitor.
* Otherwise test for these criteria in the following order:
o Highest number of corruption points.
o Lowest amount of experience.
o Lowest number of will points (blue/energy).
o Lowest number of stamina points (green/health).
o Finally (if all else fails to give a single "winner"), choose alphabetically from the remaining candidate squads.
Note that the Commander (you) and Thule (unsurprisingly) will never become a traitor.
from:
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=244167
Really like how it sets up for another sequel/expansion but at the same time feels like you did conclude something. I beat it with full favour from the emperor still
also reviews kept mentioning some sort of massive twist!! where after it happens nothing will be the same and you'll be really pissed off!?!!? but that never really seemed to happen for me.. could somebody spoil it i guess?
edit - ha! reading the last page here
Playing some more mp, still occasionally getting pitted against a team so far out of my abilities reach i feel much like an ant taking on Goliath, and occasionally getting team mates who for example spam ping there corpse while there army is being decimated.
I'm far from skilled and assumed I was on the very bottom of the food chain it's both gratifying and scary to be wrong.
all theres views were making it out to be some huge crazy freaking thing that was completely game changing. I couldn't figure out what the hell i was missing
Speaking of which -
Tell me more about these Grey Knights.