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[Sorrow of Heaven] Mark of War

13

Posts

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    I am concerned that Magic Weapon won't be as effective as it could be. I suppose in conjunction with a little Seeker and potentially a Rogue doing some ranged attacks, it'll get some use.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    I am concerned that Magic Weapon won't be as effective as it could be. I suppose in conjunction with a little Seeker and potentially a Rogue doing some ranged attacks, it'll get some use.

    Magic weapon is a really solid power actually, but does require you to be pretty close to danger to get the most out of it.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    My understanding (i.e. from what's in my CB) is that it's basically the best At-Will Artificers get. But with no real ranged Striker it won't be quite so fantastic.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    Doesn't really matter if they are ranged or not, it's up to where you're standing at the time. If the party starts in classic "fireball" formation then one use of it should confer a +1 to hit and some damage bonus to the entire party easily.

    Edit: And yes, you always get weapon/implement whatever expertise for free at level 5. This rule is one I'm never going to change unless Wizards does something drastic like update level charts or what have you.

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    Hm. Looking at the glaive vs halberd thing I see your point here.. the average damage will be higher in heroic tier and total possible damage goes up in PT and ET.. a solid choice.

    As far as the flanking thing goes I won't be shying away from an adjacent fight. I want the reach to be able to smack foes when they might not be expecting it and to help out with the control issue.

    I feel like it's a good choice given that we're lacking a pure controller and probably a little light on the damage angle.

    You know, now you've got ME considering Halberd. Between Hafted Defense in PHB 3(+1 to AC and Reflex) and the two-hander feat for hobgoblins Aegeri wrote, I'd only lose 1 point of reflex between then, and gain reach. And it would be hilarious.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    Yeah reach is handy, but you'll need to remember that without the PHB3 feat that lets you charge adjacent you'll run into some issues. Fighters have billions of feats for reach weapons though, so it's not so much of an issue there.

    Running through some fights in module 1 with some guesstimates as to the party, I think 2 defenders, 2 leaders and 1 striker does okay. Albeit some fights are going to be pretty difficult.

  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    Summary!
    Spoiler:

  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Registered User regular
    Hm. Looking at the glaive vs halberd thing I see your point here.. the average damage will be higher in heroic tier and total possible damage goes up in PT and ET.. a solid choice.

    As far as the flanking thing goes I won't be shying away from an adjacent fight. I want the reach to be able to smack foes when they might not be expecting it and to help out with the control issue.

    I feel like it's a good choice given that we're lacking a pure controller and probably a little light on the damage angle.

    It also opens up Steel Vanguard whatever as a PP for you, which coupled with hafted defense would give you *more AC* than a sword/board Fighter. Although, Kensei is still probably better. Or Polearm master for fun, because fuck min/maxing sometimes.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    Summary!
    Spoiler:

    Yeah that looks solid. Nice to see some consumables being bought before a billion levels have passed.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    This is what I look like currently, except i have a seeker MC instead of a warlord MC(Warlord MC comes second). Its a shame i can't get any freaking ranged basic at wills. I could do it if i had any martial at will. But there is no way to get martial at wills even as encounter powers.
    Spoiler:

  • illgottengainsillgottengains Registered User regular
    Is there a reason I can't find the plate armor prof feat in the CB? Perhaps a prereq that I'm lacking? Cause I figured I would see what this polearm-fighter looks like at 30.. but ya I don't see a platemail feat.

    Otherwise it looks pretty sweet. I'll be bringing a lot of burst attacks to the table as well as few daze/immo/slow abilities. The level 24ish daily is sick. 3[w] + str dazed save ends. I shift 1 and repeat the attack to any target in reach up to three times. So, in theory I could dish 12[w] + (Str x 4) and 4 save ends daze. That's a nice damn power.

    Also. The Githyanki Silver Weapon is sick. With a Daily free action on a hit I can use it to banish a foe to a demiplane as a save ends effect.

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    Is there a reason I can't find the plate armor prof feat in the CB? Perhaps a prereq that I'm lacking? Cause I figured I would see what this polearm-fighter looks like at 30.. but ya I don't see a platemail feat.

    Otherwise it looks pretty sweet. I'll be bringing a lot of burst attacks to the table as well as few daze/immo/slow abilities. The level 24ish daily is sick. 3[w] + str dazed save ends. I shift 1 and repeat the attack to any target in reach up to three times. So, in theory I could dish 12[w] + (Str x 4) and 4 save ends daze. That's a nice damn power.

    Also. The Githyanki Silver Weapon is sick. With a Daily free action on a hit I can use it to banish a foe to a demiplane as a save ends effect.

    Prereqs are strength and constitution 15, so you'd meet those by level 30. Don't know why you can see it.

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  • illgottengainsillgottengains Registered User regular
    ah, because my con is low. Maybe I can squeeze by with scale. Hm. Cause I'm assuming I'm taking the "Off" tank role and that I'll be able to rely on you to tank the BBEGs. The reason being is that I want to have big NADs, boasting con means probably that my wisdom will suffer again and I'll be Aegeri's favorite dominate target again.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Now you're making me want to look at my level 30 character to see if he's as worthless and lame as Verax will likely be.

    No! I must first finish my system dynamics! Step away, tempters!

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    ah, because my con is low. Maybe I can squeeze by with scale. Hm. Cause I'm assuming I'm taking the "Off" tank role and that I'll be able to rely on you to tank the BBEGs. The reason being is that I want to have big NADs, boasting con means probably that my wisdom will suffer again and I'll be Aegeri's favorite dominate target again.

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  • illgottengainsillgottengains Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »

    graaaaaaa.gif

    rofl!

    What is that thing?

    After taking a second look I think I have room for plate and a decent will def.

    I never thought I would be so excited to start over at level 1.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    A long campaign that reaches epic is fun, but there is always a point where people start to want to play something different. That's why we have new campaigns!

    Also that thing is a little dog like animal from a movie called Dark Crystal. He's so cute!

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    My only disappointment is that I won't get to be some wide-eyed young idealist who gets visited by a great and powerful god of justice and compassion known as Verax, who grants him divine boons and teaches him the ways of virtue.

    Well, that and I kind of wish Dark Sun was coming out sooner so we could play that. But that's okay.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    I assure you, there is Dark Sun in the future because I will definitely be running it. Plus I'll have had plenty of time to digest the campaign setting and make a really awesome adventure.

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    My only disappointment is that I won't get to be some wide-eyed young idealist who gets visited by a great and powerful god of justice and compassion known as Verax, who grants him divine boons and teaches him the ways of virtue.

    Compassion? Verax's solution to problems seems to be "Kill 'em all, let the gods sort it out."

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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    My only disappointment is that I won't get to be some wide-eyed young idealist who gets visited by a great and powerful god of justice and compassion known as Verax, who grants him divine boons and teaches him the ways of virtue.

    Compassion? Verax's solution to problems seems to be "Kill 'em all, let the gods sort it out."

    I think you're mistaken. Verax is the Cleric, not the Barbarian.

    Lain kills everything and lets the gods sort it out. Verax purifies the world of evil by any means necessary.

    The compassion thing is going to come around a bit later. Basically, once his blood oath to slay Eve is done.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote:
    The compassion thing is going to come around a bit later. Basically, once his blood oath to slay Eve is done.

    That will be at the end of the campaign most likely lol. :P

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Go figure. And here I was hoping someone else would be the final boss.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Go figure. And here I was hoping someone else would be the final boss.

    Well, she isn't actually really the thing that needs to be dealt with in that combat at the moment. She just makes live obscenely difficult.

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Go figure. And here I was hoping someone else would be the final boss.

    Well, she isn't actually really the thing that needs to be dealt with in that combat at the moment. She just makes live obscenely difficult.

    You hear that Verax? You won't even get to kill her!

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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Go figure. And here I was hoping someone else would be the final boss.

    Well, she isn't actually really the thing that needs to be dealt with in that combat at the moment. She just makes live obscenely difficult.

    You hear that Verax? You won't even get to kill her!

    Man, if Verax were here he would be pissed.

    In my mind, I figured we'd get to Mercurial, Eve would appear and free him. Then Verax would challenge her to a duel in a furious rage. Since it's likely she'd be a solo, Verax would then die and the rest of the group would have to fight her a man down.

    But I guess that's not going to happen, now is it? Because Aegeri hates me and he hates Verax's character growth. I asked Aegeri around level 14 or so for a chance to speak to Torm again before epic tier so there'd be at least a tiny shred of justification for how Verax could suddenly be Torm's Chosen. But nope! None of that, so Verax gets to be a plain ol' demigod instead.

    I think perhaps Aegeri exists to make Verax suffer. That's why Verax always takes the most damage (Aegeri uses separate macros that can't roll low against him), why he almost died against both Mr. Big Freakin' Dragon and Mr. Acid Hydra... it explains so much, really. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Aegeri secretly works for WotC and is responsible for the Righteous Brand nerf too.

    What's the reason for all the hate, Aegeri? Is it because Verax keeps you from getting PKs? You want some more PKs? I'll just have Verax stop healing people all the time.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote:
    In my mind, I figured we'd get to Mercurial, Eve would appear and free him.

    She is unable to enter Carceri at all actually, that's why she needed you do to so. If she could simply free him herself she would have done so.
    Since it's likely she'd be a solo, Verax would then die and the rest of the group would have to fight her a man down.

    At this point they would all be firmly dead afterwards as there is quite a level gap there as well :D
    I asked Aegeri around level 14 or so for a chance to speak to Torm again before epic tier so there'd be at least a tiny shred of justification for how Verax could suddenly be Torm's Chosen. But nope! None of that, so Verax gets to be a plain ol' demigod instead.

    You'll get to speak to him shortly actually (assuming you don't all die horribly somewhere). Also, I think I explained at the time it's incredibly hard (actually almost impossible) to communicate with the gods in the current situation except directly (which is of course what will happen).
    At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Aegeri secretly works for WotC and is responsible for the Righteous Brand nerf too.

    Don't forget Hero of Faith! Minding my nerfs are always kinder and gentler than Wizards nerfs are ;)

    Also, you should blame Rysk for nearly being eaten by Mortis because he encouraged you to mark the monster :P

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Terrendos wrote:
    In my mind, I figured we'd get to Mercurial, Eve would appear and free him.

    She is unable to enter Carceri at all actually, that's why she needed you do to so. If she could simply free him herself she would have done so.

    Nice try Aegeri, but you can't snow the snowman. I've seen the Xanatos Gambit pulled way too many times to not see myself walking into one. You're just lucky Verax isn't quite so literary as I am.
    Since it's likely she'd be a solo, Verax would then die and the rest of the group would have to fight her a man down.

    At this point they would all be firmly dead afterwards as there is quite a level gap there as well :D

    And this is supposed to make me feel better how?
    I asked Aegeri around level 14 or so for a chance to speak to Torm again before epic tier so there'd be at least a tiny shred of justification for how Verax could suddenly be Torm's Chosen. But nope! None of that, so Verax gets to be a plain ol' demigod instead.

    You'll get to speak to him shortly actually (assuming you don't all die horribly somewhere). Also, I think I explained at the time it's incredibly hard (actually almost impossible) to communicate with the gods in the current situation except directly (which is of course what will happen).

    Hey, just 5-6 levels too late.
    At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Aegeri secretly works for WotC and is responsible for the Righteous Brand nerf too.

    Don't forget Hero of Faith! Minding my nerfs are always kinder and gentler than Wizards nerfs are ;)

    Also, you should blame Rysk for nearly being eaten by Mortis because he encouraged you to mark the monster :P

    Oh yeah, like you didn't specifically put the Hydra (with threatening reach, as you made it clear) one shift away from Verax and a full move action away from Orin by coincidence. I know your modus operandi, and that is to punish a character played by Terrendos.

    I suspect that Rysk does the same thing only he's not as good at hiding it yet, hence the now-infamous Unstunning the Dryad incident and others like it.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Nice try Aegeri, but you can't snow the snowman. I've seen the Xanatos Gambit pulled way too many times to not see myself walking into one. You're just lucky Verax isn't quite so literary as I am.

    Well, that's not going to be very useful in this module :D
    And this is supposed to make me feel better how?

    Well, they would be all horribly dead with you! And probably very confused because she couldn't have got in there given everything I've mentioned about the place.

    Then again I am the prince(cess?) of lies!
    Hey, just 5-6 levels too late.

    Unfortunately much of what I planned went a little by the wayside when I was ill last year, so I accelerated certain things and put in a dungeon crawl where I could catch up with my writing. This did sort of get in the way of many of the story elements I wanted to do, but actual interaction with the gods directly was not something I really intended before level ~25 very much.
    Oh yeah, like you didn't specifically put the Hydra (with threatening reach, as you made it clear) one shift away from Verax and a full move action away from Orin by coincidence.

    All 3 main melee characters were within Mortis' initial reach actually, he has a really long reach so he wasn't within a shift of Verax - because he needed to make use of his threatening reach. Also, you went before the Hydra did and Orin right afterwards.
    I know your modus operandi, and that is to punish a character played by Terrendos.

    I haven't killed Tavar half as much as I should have now you mention it :D. I've been trying to kill Oren a bit much (there might be a bit of a trend here that monsters try, when they have the option to kill leaders first if they are sufficiently smart).

    Edit: It does occur to me that I have TWO leaders in this game. That's going to give the monsters a headache.

    Edit2: Also, stronger adoption and running of character stories into the overall campaign arc is a priority of Mark of War. It's far more protagonist driven than my usual way of writing, so marks a big departure from nearly every campaign I've written before - which were primarily antagonist driven.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    My concern with Mortis was actually that it's reasonable to expect anyone (certainly Verax) to know that hydras are really nasty when given free reign of the group. It would not be reasonable for him to know that Heroslayer Hydras are way more dangerous when marked. You then proceeded to spawn him one square away from me (so that I could shift and attack/mark) whereas thanks to threatening reach Orin would probably have to eat a half dozen attacks from an OA just to get in range. So Verax's options were to attempt to tank him for a turn while Orin got into position, or risk letting him one shot a squishy (which he certainly would have if he'd attacked anyone else except maybe Lain because of his huge HP reserves).

    Now either this was a huge coincidence, or you planned it. And we both know there's no coincidences in D&D except for the dice. But it makes sense you'd go after me. After all, I get crit the most. It's evident that Maptools hates me when it comes to enemy attacks. I'm practically the party's lynch-pin, what with the healing I dole out every encounter. My huge investment in my defenses has yielded negligible benefit (how is Orin's AC so much higher than mine anyway? I guess he's got +6 armor but that still doesn't seem like enough) and my predilection for getting Verax in over his head is nothing short of terrifying.

    I'm not mad, Aegeri. I'm just disappointed. I guess I assumed that it would be karmic if the cleric of Justice actually got to deliver some. Literary characters like Verax only really have 2 endings: either they manage to overcome their personal flaws and triumph in a meaningful way (Odysseus, for example, whose clever thinking won him back his home and his family, or Aeneas, whose bravery and devotion to the gods won him a new home and helped him slay the jealous Turnus), or they get tossed aside, thrown into the Charybdis and dashed against the rocks in a tragic end (Oedipus, Theseus, Hector, Orpheus). I suppose I was just hoping for the former.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    My concern with Mortis was actually that it's reasonable to expect anyone (certainly Verax) to know that hydras are really nasty when given free reign of the group. It would not be reasonable for him to know that Heroslayer Hydras are way more dangerous when marked. You then proceeded to spawn him one square away from me (so that I could shift and attack/mark) whereas thanks to threatening reach Orin would probably have to eat a half dozen attacks from an OA just to get in range.

    Only one and he did get a swing at you as well! Be fair to me now! Plus he got a swing at Lain as well. Also, like most monsters his multiple attack power isn't MBA. That would be sadistic.
    So Verax's options were to attempt to tank him for a turn while Orin got into position, or risk letting him one shot a squishy (which he certainly would have if he'd attacked anyone else except maybe Lain because of his huge HP reserves).

    The actual bite attack itself doesn't do a lot of damage actually, it's more the huge number of attacks he gets that can stack up damage.
    Now either this was a huge coincidence, or you planned it.

    Nah. He was on the other side of the ice bridge, but nobody was moving forwards. So if you remember I said "Time to take the initiative" and dumped Mortis roughly in the middle of the party.
    My huge investment in my defenses has yielded negligible benefit (how is Orin's AC so much higher than mine anyway? I guess he's got +6 armor but that still doesn't seem like enough) and my predilection for getting Verax in over his head is nothing short of terrifying.

    I think that Orin has +6 Godplate armour, and you've got the +5 armour that isn't the AC boost one. Once you have the next +6 suit of armour above what you have now there will be less of a gap. Also remember that Orin gets a further +1 bonus to AC when he's in Avalanche Stance as well.
    I'm not mad, Aegeri. I'm just disappointed. I guess I assumed that it would be karmic if the cleric of Justice actually got to deliver some.

    Yes, there are plenty of people who could use it as well. There is a good reason why this game is extending the level 30 out quite a bit compared to how other epic tier campaigns do things :D

    Also, if anyone is curious the original progression pre-illness from last year (and how I wrote around that) was:

    Sigil -> Celestia -> Edentia* -> Carceri

    So I actually changed a huge amount at that point.

    *All that work, all gone now. Sigh.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Well then let me just say this: Of those stories I mentioned above, Aeneas's is the only one that happens right at the end (Aeneas stabs Turnus on the last page of the Aeneid, actually). The others get at least a little denouement after they finish their "karmic victory/tragic fall."

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    Well, depends on how the campaign ends as the final encounter is particularly complicated but actually probably something none of you are expecting. It will be deliciously violent.

    Also in terms of smiting, I think I should remind everyone (sadly, things did not go as I wanted sigh) that the following all need to be dealt with:

    Myrkul (He's a general dick), Abaddon (Infecting children, rampant murder, trying to kill you several times), Lilith (Trying to murder you, spreading disease, being a general dick - Deneira hated her as well), Orcus (You stole his statue) and Jerusha (She just really doesn't like you for the whole killing her thing).

    So many horrible abominations to smite. Not enough time. Anyway, further talk of SoH plot can go in the relevant thread. This is about my new campaign :D

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    I think I'm pretty decided on a Halberd for Marhu(my paladin). I'll still have some incredible AC, for the cost of a couple of feats, and really, the feat cost only ends up being one when i would have taken superior weapon prof. anyways. I think I'm also going to more or less walk into the role of doing damage secondary, though I won't try to compromise defending for it.

    It's just that, remember, my paladin worships a god of war. What kind of Paladin would I be if I didn't take Wrath of the Gods as my level 6 utility? Of course, between Aegeri's feats, I'll end up with +4 damage for a couple of fairly strong feats.

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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    I'm having some trouble coming up with a good reason for my character to want to go adventuring. The best I can come up with is he's just a humanitarian. I'd go with the old standby "character needs gold badly" but it just seems like a cliche. If I can come up with a rifle-totin' math whiz then I should be able to come up with a better adventuring reason than that he's broke.

    TSI, I don't think there'll be a problem with you going halberd. Two Leaders and another Defender mean you've definitely got backup, and we'll probably be a bit light on damage anyway to going with a +damage build really can't hurt us.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    He might want to look for an Eldritch Machine or even try to find a lost House Cannith forge. Especially if he was born into the house but didn't get a dragonmark or similar, finding such a device or a long lost forge might help establish him with the house (the game takes place near the Mournland and House Cannith lost a considerable amount of resources in there...).

    @TSI That sounds like a good plan. Two leaders though with good damage bonuses should compensate the lack of an extra striker.

  • illgottengainsillgottengains Registered User regular
    How silly are we going to be with two polearm defenders? I'm tempted to see how well it works.

  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    Um, I don't get any CA from flank? That's terribad.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    There is a feat that lets you flank with a polearm while not being adjacent to the enemy.

  • TSI|AwesomeTSI|Awesome Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    There is a feat that lets you flank with a polearm while not being adjacent to the enemy.

    Unfortunately, it only gives flanking to the polearm-er, so no good for the rogue. That said, I will definitely move up close to flank. Stop acting like I won't!

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