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Am I racially/sex insensitive/distanced?

MimMim Return of SaturnRegistered User regular
edited March 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/45173471.html

Yesterday this was posted on ONTD (Oh No They Didn't! For those who do not browse livejournal) and I really couldn't see the big deal about it. I left a comment saying that if she had been wearing shackles, I wouldn't automatically jump to thinking about her making slavery sexy (I couldn't think of anything slavery specific, so I used a weak example) but just "shackles".

The thing is, is that I am of African American, Puerto Rican and Native American decent (my great-great grandmother being Cherokee). Normally when something racial comes up in pop culture that isn't blatantly racist, I don't catch it and it doesn't bother me. Commenting that it doesn't bother me has comments of "Read a damn book you fucking retard" or "You hate yourself" promptly thrown at me. No, they don't spend time trying to tell you where you are wrong or help you see the big picture because obviously it isn't their obligation to educate you.

The same thing happens with gender and sex inequality. I don't see a problem with calling a girl a bitch if she is being a bitch. I call men the same thing and I call men "sluts" and "whores" as well and don't just link it to the female sex.

I don't think like this because I'd rather not spend my time day in and day out pissed over things that I cannot escape. I'm more concerned with what's going on individually in my own life and not if someone is being racially sensitive or gender sensitive.

How do I see the bigger picture so I don't come off sounding like someone who hates herself and her heritage just because I just don't give a fuck over things that aren't blatant? And what books/websites should I click to even learn about this kind of stuff? I've found Feminism 101 but I find the format kind of confusing and I don't think anything exists for racial topics.

TL;DR : How do I be less blind to the racially/sex insensitive things out there so I know what everyone else is pissed about and can see their side? Or is it even a problem?

Mim on
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Posts

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    You're making the mistake of listening to a comments section.

    Universally, they are one step below the incoherent babbling of a pre-verbal toddler.

  • BeltaineBeltaine The End of TimeRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    There's nothing wrong with you. You don't immediately see something and shout

    THAT'S RACIST!

    or

    THAT'S SEXIST!

    because you are intelligent enough to realize that not everything infers racist or sexist undertones.


    In this case, Ke$ha is a record label's attempt at cashing in on Lady GaGa's success by creating a copycat. Wearing over the top/weird clothing is par for the course. There was no thought or statement made by her wearing a headdress and war paint, it was more like "Hey, this is cool looking and out of the ordinary".


    If people would start taking things at face value and not trying to make it all have some hidden meaning, the world be better off for it.

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  • ceresceres Just your problem OooSuper Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited March 2010
    Alright look.

    If you want to find the worst humanity has to offer, find an article from any publication about anything at all (or any youtube video, God), and then skip to the comments section.

    Continue to be a reasonable person and it will most likely be fine. Also don't read comments sections and you will be a happier person.

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  • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    I'm not really sure what to say. The concept of privelage (ie, that white folks don't realise that non-whites can have a hard time due to racism because, as white people, they never encounter racism) is one that makes a lot of sense to me, but then, people who make a point of addressing every display of privelage in an effort to educate people and get rid of it tend to come across as whiney geese.

    Do they come across that way because privilage is just insidious and unintentional, so folks (including non-whites) have a hard time noticing it and thus think anyone who does notice it is just overreacting; or do they come across that way because they really are overreacting? Sure, a racial joke that's intended as a joke should just be treated as such... but why was it made in the first place?

    While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Austin, TXRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Beltaine wrote: »
    In this case, Ke$ha is a record label's attempt at cashing in on Lady GaGa's success by creating a copycat.

    That is exactly what I thought when I caught a bit of the act. And it's pretty sad just how blatant it is. It's also why I gave up on the record industry years ago, as it's par for the course.

    I think some people look for a reason to be offended. That blog post sounds like she's particularly sensitive to Native American references. Some people take themselves too seriously.

    camo_sig2.png
  • MimMim Return of Saturn Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    (ie, that white folks don't realise that non-whites can have a hard time due to racism because, as white people, they never encounter racism)

    See, this never made sense to me. I think White people do encounter racism, having grown up around people who've told me that White people are evil. I don't think they are, I think their ancestors did some fucked up shit but who's ancestors haven't? Slavery happened in Africa, didn't it? And I mean that as a genuine question and not a smart ass one. If it happened there, amongst African people, then how come we don't look as slavery as a whole as bad instead of just the kind that happened in America? Is it because we're Americans and therefore only what happened within our borders matter?

    Just like with the concept of reparations. I think an apology would be great and an excellent move. However when people bring in money, I think "No, that's incredibly offensive to our ancestors" just because I'd feel as though I'd be making a profit off of something that didn't happen to me, but what happened to our ancestors. I think acknowledging slavery and all of its evil events is okay in and of itself. Am I wrong? I don't think I hate my heritage just because I'm fine with getting an apology and acknowledgment that it was what happened was fucked up and let's work on healing those old wounds.

    With the headdress, they brought up that its a symbol of respect and you have to earn it, but I don't think many people wear it today even in the Native American culture do they? Again, genuine question. I'm really trying to learn here and I feel stupid that at 22 years old I'm asking these questions when other people over the internet seem to have known what book to pick up and know all about it.

    They pointed out hipsters wearing headbands with feathers on them being disrespectful to Native Americans, but ...I just don't see it. When a cheerleader dressed up as a rapper (I think it was Lil John?) she applied brown make up to her skin and tons of people called it black face, when I didn't see it as such. She didn't dress in a racially insensitive way to myself, and didn't act a fool running around calling people "Mastah" and doing silly gestures, she was trying to portray the rapper himself and if she hadn't had the makeup on, I don't think I would've gotten the outfit quite as well.

    And then I feel silly when people say I'm missing the issue and that I'm retarded. D:

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  • DuffelDuffel Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I think Native Americans have every right in the world to be offended by the video for several reasons.

    One of which is the mass cultural appropriation by white people of aspects of Native American religious traditions. There are lots (and I mean lots) of whites in America who think it's trendy and fashionable to co-opt a few things they think are neat that they read about in some New Age-y book that has been bastardized from various indigenous religious traditions. This manifests itself in various wanna-be tribes made up of white people, hucksters, and the old truism among various native groups that "every white person has an Indian grandmother". Some people apparently think that gives them a pass regarding the genocidal actions of their ancestors and that they somehow shouldn't feel guilty about it - perhaps even 'sharing' in these past persecutions. This is obviously ridiculous and offensive.

    This is especially insidious when you remember that until only a few decades ago there were official government laws in place that were designed specificially to eradicate any vestige of traditional Native American life. In the 19th and 20th centuries Native children were taken from their homes and placed in boarding schools, beaten for speaking their own languages, and forced to relinquish and forget things their parents had taught them in favor of a white-centric worldview. Native Americans have been killed for attempting to practice their religion. Look up the Ghost Dance movement for one especially famous example.

    Not only this, but Natives also have to put up with both some of the most crushing poverty and substandard living conditions in the US, but also mainstream society's free pass regarding stereotypical and offensive depictions of Native peoples that won't fly for other groups. Coon Chicken Inn's logo and name were discarded because people realized how disgusting it was. But Chief Wahoo is still out there if I am not mistaken.

    If this video had featured Ke$ha in blackface, wearing a bandana and being whipped in a sexualized manner by a plantation-overseer type, there would have been an uproar, and rightly so. But Native issues are so disregarded by larger society that people pretend they should just let it slide when it seems extremely obvious to Native peoples themselves that something is wrong.

    So, while the people in the topic probably shouldn't have been rude to you, there is a very serious underlying issue here, and you really do need to get educated to understand why they are rightfully angry. I can give you some books to look up if you're interested.

  • scrivenerjonesscrivenerjones Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Thanatos wrote: »
    You're making the mistake of listening to a comments section.

    Universally, they are one step below the incoherent babbling of a pre-verbal toddler.

    I don't think it's appropriate to dismiss someone who is interested in learning more about privilege/cultural appropriation just because her interest was provoked by a comments section.

  • DemerdarDemerdar Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    You are normal.

    What's not normal is getting offended or finding offense in everything that's in the media.

    parabol
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  • BeltaineBeltaine The End of TimeRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Religion is completely off subject here.

    People of every race/sex have been murdered and oppressed due to religion at one point in time or another.

    There are also people of every race/sex that are suffering from poverty and poor living conditions in the U.S. It's not just isolated to Native peoples.

    Trepanning is the art of cutting the skull open to let the gods in.
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  • DuffelDuffel Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    In Native American communities it's not unheard of for people, in the year 2010, to be living without electricity or running water. This is not true for the vast majority of Americans.

    Also, facial paint and ceremonial dress are explicitly religious items. It's not hard to see how offended people would be when their religion is co-opted for something as tawdry as a 'sexy' video by a lame Lady GaGa ripoff, especially in light of the way their religious beliefs have been treated in the past. The fact that the performer, the producers and most of the video's viewership don't realize that they are religious objects is a huge part of the problem.

  • SipexSipex Registered User
    edited March 2010
    Deffel, you need to tone it down a bit, your posts seeth with rage and it's really not helping your case.

    Also, OP, you sound like a smart individual, you just need to learn to stop listening to idiots on the internet and stand by what you think.

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  • DuffelDuffel Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I'm not 'seething with rage' at all. But I feel that this is important and most people don't realize it, or aren't even aware of it.

    I'm not mad at the OP for not knowing some of this stuff, but failure to address the needs and history of Native American peoples is a huge (and almost entirely ignored) issue, and I believe that society has consistently failed to address or even educate the public about it.

    EDIT:

    To answer Mim's question more precisely -

    No, there is nothing wrong with not realizing why these people were upset. There is no way for you to know those things unless you have been either a) educated about them, or b) experienced what they were talking about personally.

    However, while I can't vouch for other experiences you might have had in this department, in this particular case you've found a situation where people have a very valid reason for taken offense at what was portrayed. There's no real way that you could have known about it, but if you recognize the necessity of learning about these issues then I would encourage you to pursue it.

    So, I'm sorry if I came across to you like I was trying to dump all these past atrocities at your feet or something, simply because you didn't know about them. Through my work and studies I've learned a lot about this particular issue and I have pretty strong feelings about it.

    But I agree with you that prejudice cuts in more directions than many people recognize or realize, and the only way we can eradicate that prejudice is through both self-examination and an honest effort to learn about the experiences of other peoples and groups and see things from their own perspective. If you do that - and you seem to want to - then you will be way ahead of the curve when compared to most people.

  • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    Mim wrote: »
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    (ie, that white folks don't realise that non-whites can have a hard time due to racism because, as white people, they never encounter racism)

    See, this never made sense to me. I think White people do encounter racism, having grown up around people who've told me that White people are evil. I don't think they are, I think their ancestors did some fucked up shit but who's ancestors haven't?

    I'm white, and I've been subjected to anti-white racism once in my entire life. I got into an argument with a mixed-race girl who'd been bullying me for being gay; her response to my confrontation was to burst into tears and say, "oh, I see what this is about. You think I'm a n*****, don't you?"

    At the time, and for a while afterwards, I felt self-righteous indignance. I knew perfectly well that the reason I'd been yelling at her was because she'd been bullying me, and had nothing at all to do with her race. I'd never even mentioned her race! Surely she was just being a manipulative little bitch, right?
    Now, however, I'm not so sure. Her assumption about me may have been incorrect, but she probably made that assumption because she's had to deal with racists who really did just think she was "nothing but a n*****". This doesn't excuse her homophobia and it doesn't excuse her jumping to conclusions... but I can see where she was coming from. I don't feel self-righteous indignance anymore; I feel frustration that we live in a society in which that kind of misunderstanding can still happen.

    So, although it's the fault of my ancestors that non-whites have been oppressed in this part of the world, it's still my responsibility to contribute to removing the residue of their racism from society. It's everyone's responsibility. And I'm not sure that making light-hearted racist jokes makes much sense yet in an environment in which there's still a lot of that residue.

    While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
  • DuffelDuffel Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Lieberkuhn you need to edit your post, the n-word (in any context) warrants an infraction on the boards.

  • scrivenerjonesscrivenerjones Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    OP, I feel a little silly that the first book I think to recommend about white privilege is written by a white dude, but if you have a chance to pick up "White Like Me" by Tim Wise then I strongly recommend doing so. I can't remember the name of the book I read on cultural appropriation but I will do a little digging after I eat breakfast.

    And Lieber that is a good story for this thread but people are a little ban-happy about that word around these parts :(

  • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    Duffel wrote: »
    Lieberkuhn you need to edit your post, the n-word (in any context) warrants an infraction on the boards.

    Whoops! Done.

    Edit: I suppose that I carelessly went ahead and used that word is, in itself, an example of privelage. I used it because I figured it made sense in context; but the word is still so incredibly pejorative that many people find it offensive regardless of context. I should have recognised that.

    While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
  • scrivenerjonesscrivenerjones Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I'd also add to Lieber's story that the end-goal of raising awareness about cultural appropriation and privilege in our society isn't that everyone should be offended 24/7 about everything, as some of the silly geese in this thread seem to think. It's about just that--understanding where people are coming from.

    OP, you didn't feel offended by Ke$ha's act. That's okay! There is not an actual PC police who will throw you in jail for not being offended at things. But by learning more about the history of this kind of thing, and figuring out where people who are offended are coming from, you will become a more well-rounded and more awesome person. :D

  • Nite-ManNite-Man Registered User
    edited March 2010
    Try watchingthis youtube video It's about race in the context of nerd culture.

    The first significant thing living here taught me is conformity costs money, and everybody pays.
  • NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    It was actually the Arabs who began the process of a slave trade in Africa.

  • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    I'm not really sure what to say. The concept of privelage (ie, that white folks don't realise that non-whites can have a hard time due to racism because, as white people, they never encounter racism) is one that makes a lot of sense to me, but then, people who make a point of addressing every display of privelage in an effort to educate people and get rid of it tend to come across as whiney geese.

    Do they come across that way because privilage is just insidious and unintentional, so folks (including non-whites) have a hard time noticing it and thus think anyone who does notice it is just overreacting; or do they come across that way because they really are overreacting? Sure, a racial joke that's intended as a joke should just be treated as such... but why was it made in the first place?

    um, what?


    Caucasian people encounter racism probably equally as much as any other people, but it's more socially acceptable to hate on whites because of what they have now, and because of the horribly racist practices of some (well I guess most during a certain time period, but you know what I mean) of them in the past.

    ... I had a really hard time trying to not sound like a white supremacist, so if it at all came off as that, that's not what I meant.


    also, the fact that I had to extremely carefully construct my wording to not sound racist is partly proof of what I'm trying to say.

    GT: Acidboogie PSNid: AcidLacedPenguiN
  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    Nite-Man wrote: »
    Try watchingthis youtube video It's about race in the context of nerd culture.

    I don't want to play a black cloud.. That is all I have to say.

    SEGA
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  • scrivenerjonesscrivenerjones Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    I'm not really sure what to say. The concept of privelage (ie, that white folks don't realise that non-whites can have a hard time due to racism because, as white people, they never encounter racism) is one that makes a lot of sense to me, but then, people who make a point of addressing every display of privelage in an effort to educate people and get rid of it tend to come across as whiney geese.

    Do they come across that way because privilage is just insidious and unintentional, so folks (including non-whites) have a hard time noticing it and thus think anyone who does notice it is just overreacting; or do they come across that way because they really are overreacting? Sure, a racial joke that's intended as a joke should just be treated as such... but why was it made in the first place?

    um, what?


    Caucasian people encounter racism probably equally as much as any other people, but it's more socially acceptable to hate on whites because of what they have now, and because of the horribly racist practices of some (well I guess most during a certain time period, but you know what I mean) of them in the past.

    ... I had a really hard time trying to not sound like a white supremacist, so if it at all came off as that, that's not what I meant.


    also, the fact that I had to extremely carefully construct my wording to not sound racist is partly proof of what I'm trying to say.
    Nah. Mostly when people are talking about racism they aren't talking about you getting called a cracker on the bus, or whatever, although I'm sure that makes you feel bad. They are talking about an institutional preference in favor of white people and their ideas and actions.

  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    I'm not really sure what to say. The concept of privelage (ie, that white folks don't realise that non-whites can have a hard time due to racism because, as white people, they never encounter racism) is one that makes a lot of sense to me, but then, people who make a point of addressing every display of privelage in an effort to educate people and get rid of it tend to come across as whiney geese.

    Do they come across that way because privilage is just insidious and unintentional, so folks (including non-whites) have a hard time noticing it and thus think anyone who does notice it is just overreacting; or do they come across that way because they really are overreacting? Sure, a racial joke that's intended as a joke should just be treated as such... but why was it made in the first place?

    um, what?


    Caucasian people encounter racism probably equally as much as any other people, but it's more socially acceptable to hate on whites because of what they have now, and because of the horribly racist practices of some (well I guess most during a certain time period, but you know what I mean) of them in the past.

    ... I had a really hard time trying to not sound like a white supremacist, so if it at all came off as that, that's not what I meant.


    also, the fact that I had to extremely carefully construct my wording to not sound racist is partly proof of what I'm trying to say.
    Nah. Mostly when people are talking about racism they aren't talking about you getting called a cracker on the bus, or whatever, although I'm sure that makes you feel bad. They are talking about an institutional preference in favor of white people and their ideas and actions.

    Yeah and getting called cracker on the bus tends to make you not care about institutional preference in favor of white people.

    SEGA
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  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    had I any indication whatsoever that this thread was about institutional racism exclusively I would not have said what I did. Since this thread is, I'll rescind my previous statements. Whitey's got it made.

    GT: Acidboogie PSNid: AcidLacedPenguiN
  • SipexSipex Registered User
    edited March 2010
    I believe there's a debate and discussion forum if you guys wish to continue the discussion of racism. In this thread we should probably focus on helping the OP with his dilemma.

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  • Farout FoolioFarout Foolio Registered User
    edited March 2010
    On a slightly more topical note, OP;
    As someone mentioned before, the best way to go forward is simply to learn and understand where people have been, and where they're coming from. Try to get a feel for separating knee-jerk reactions from sincere concerns about equality etc.
    Also, anyone who tells you that you should feel guilty for the actions of others, regardless of how atrocious those actions are, is a silly goose.
    Mim wrote: »
    OP is a chick
    Spoiler:

    Two times the fun!

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  • MimMim Return of Saturn Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Sipex wrote: »
    I believe there's a debate and discussion forum if you guys wish to continue the discussion of racism. In this thread we should probably focus on helping the OP with his dilemma.

    OP is a chick
    Spoiler:

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  • The Crowing OneThe Crowing One Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I thought I'd share an explanation I recently heard.

    A friend of mine is Alaskan and he came out to New England recently for school. Amongst other things, he tends to be shocked by the "racism" we encounter in a place like Massachusetts, after seeing the "racism" practiced against the Native Alaskans. In particular, he points out that in Alaska (which is a pretty diverse place) the only negativity against groups is generally against the Natives, and we're not talking about words or attitudes, we're talking about violence, social segregation and economic repression. It was not uncommon for him to call 911 to report violence against Natives, or to have to pull them out of the street so they wouldn't be run over my cars.

    The point is that it is a "privilege" that we, as a society, consider a good deal of non-violent and "attitude" harassment to be "racism". That in Massachusetts, as opposed to Alaska, our generally greatest concern with "racism" is verbal and tied into internal attitudes. Violence is an outlier, and while it exists, our cultural conversation is about what people say and think, not, in most cases, what they actually do.

    Now that's no apology, and there's work to be done. I would encourage you, Mim, not to get bent-out-of-shape over angry posts on the internet. At the core, the video is stupid and childish, it doesn't advocate violence or terror but betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the world and Native culture. It is ignorant to extreme.

    The tricky part is that we can no long tell the racists from others because they're wearing Klan robes. Racism of this type, here as we're discussing, is a spectre. It is a concept and no longer, primarily, an act. This makes it much more difficult to define what "racism" even is, anymore. We all know lynching a black person is racism. As you can see, here, we're not so certain about a stupid woman on the screen.

    There's no denying that "acts" like this become controversial, but being able to evaluate and say "that's ignorant and stupid for reasons x, y and z" to your friends and family is a lot more effective at the base level than writing a rant about how "racist" the video is.

    I think we need to rein in using the word "racist", as these types of incidents brush back and forth on the "line". It is foolish, ignorant and pretty despicable, but there isn't ill-intent as far as I can tell. Should people have a free pass to do this shit? absolutely not. But it isn't going to cause the sort of violence of institutionalized "racism".

    In fact, the very existence of this conversation is proof that we're moving in the right direction and have made immense progress. Imagine how Fredrick Douglas would approach this, that we're so sensitive, as a culture, to difference that we use the term "racism" to apply in majority to non-specifically-directed thought and speech.

    The point isn't really, in the end, to come down and say with absolute certainty "that's racist", but to be able to identify and speak in a civil and reasonable fashion.

    3rddocbottom.jpg
  • MimMim Return of Saturn Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    On a slightly more topical note, OP;
    As someone mentioned before, the best way to go forward is simply to learn and understand where people have been, and where they're coming from. Try to get a feel for separating knee-jerk reactions from sincere concerns about equality etc.
    Also, anyone who tells you that you should feel guilty for the actions of others, regardless of how atrocious those actions are, is a silly goose.

    Its not so much that I should feel guilty for their actions, its just that I don't let their actions get to me. And considering I'm a triple minority threat, I'm betting I'm supposed to have had numerous heart attacks and strokes from all the racism in the media/world. Or a quadruple minority threat, if you tack on the fact that I'm a woman/girl.

    I do try to understand where people are coming from, but as pointed out in that ONTD example, the best you'll get in response to "Help me understand" is "Fuck you, retard. Why don't you fucking pick up a book? It's not MY obligation to teach YOU what you should ALREADY KNOW."

    No book titles, no real help. Just a shit ton of animosity. But its an LJ comm about celebrity gossip.

    Along the lines of sex insensitivity would be the whole sex doll thing. I'm not bothered by the fact that guys have sex dolls because they can't get women in their lives. A lot of women though took major offense to it because it basically says that women are sex objects and that these men don't really need a sexual outlet and that they should control themselves instead of being misogynistic assholes.

    I just look at the guys buying the dolls and I go "Yeah...I can actually see why they'd need them. Wooo, they have faces only mamas could love. From a distance."

    cmwbq1k.png?1FREE HENROID
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    had I any indication whatsoever that this thread was about institutional racism exclusively I would not have said what I did. Since this thread is, I'll rescind my previous statements. Whitey's got it made.
    Yeah, I know that when someone calls me a "cracker" on a bus, it just ruins my day; takes me back to... owning land... and people.

    Just awful.
    Spoiler:

  • MimMim Return of Saturn Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Thanatos wrote: »
    had I any indication whatsoever that this thread was about institutional racism exclusively I would not have said what I did. Since this thread is, I'll rescind my previous statements. Whitey's got it made.
    Yeah, I know that when someone calls me a "cracker" on a bus, it just ruins my day; takes me back to... owning land... and people.

    Just awful.
    Spoiler:

    I saw this bit yesterday! It was very hilarious.

    When did this move to D&D?

    cmwbq1k.png?1FREE HENROID
  • SipexSipex Registered User
    edited March 2010
    I seem to have cursed the thread. I apologise.

    Horseshoe wrote:
    I've got good news and bad news about 6th level, That Guy. The good news is that Forbiddance spell allows you to prevent enemies different alignment from entering a consecrated area, which is actually useful! The bad news is that the only other new sixth level spell makes lunch for everybody. Guess which one the party is going to expect you to cast.
  • Farout FoolioFarout Foolio Registered User
    edited March 2010
    You're far too reasonable for the internet, turn in your modem immediately! :P

    But really, you seem perceptive enough to pick up on any real insensitivity.
    So much of this angry discourse can stem from reading between the lines when it isn't there.
    Not to say that there aren't genuine cases to complain about, but our society is sometimes obsessed with imagining slights against us when there aren't any.
    Like TCO said, there's a difference between possibly innocent ignorance and willful bigotry.

    camo_sig2.png
  • KastanjKastanj __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2010
    So if shackles are now a risky subject because one race was horribly subjugated and put in them, the practice of making a legal deal with a lower-class person who will see over your garden is touchy because richer people used to force serfs to do that.

    It's like, the practice, not the implements.

    Branding irons don't make atheist abjurers of christian theology like me get all sensitive and complain about the inquisition.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SipexSipex Registered User
    edited March 2010
    Well, you also have the problem that too many people want to be "Internet Heroes" and will jump at the first thing which could possibly end in I S T.

    Horseshoe wrote:
    I've got good news and bad news about 6th level, That Guy. The good news is that Forbiddance spell allows you to prevent enemies different alignment from entering a consecrated area, which is actually useful! The bad news is that the only other new sixth level spell makes lunch for everybody. Guess which one the party is going to expect you to cast.
  • sidhaethesidhaethe Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yeah, re: comments like "It's not my responsibility to teach you about race and race relations! Read a book! etc. etc." well, anti-racists (as in, party-line-toting members of the Anti-Racist movement) mostly suck in their approach IMHO. (I guess that makes me a bad brown person in some folks' views. Oh well.)

    I really DO appreciate having examples of insititutional racism brought to my attention - and anti-racists are at least good at that - in cases where I haven't noticed it (especially given that I am black but not African-American and was not raised in the US, I am really ignorant as to the depths of what has gone on here historically). I also "understand" to a degree the notion that these discussions have been had so many times that the people "in the know" are tired of having to explain it over and over again in tiny words. But I think it's far more important to keep having those discussions, those "Racism 101" discussions, over and over again in the public sphere, instead of shoving everyone out who doesn't already have a college-level intimacy with the subject like it's some sort of elitist club.

    I also strongly make a distinction between being aware of white privilege (and hetero privilege, and male privilege) and "finding offense wherever you go" as is so often claimed. Being aware of something doesn't always mean I'm going to be offended by it - sometimes you find that you consider the historical context and still decide that you're not offended and it's no big deal. But the answer isn't to say "oh we're all equal now and color/gender/sexuality is irrelevent! Black president!" and be done with it. Not just yet.

  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Harrisonburg, VARegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Thanatos wrote: »
    You're making the mistake of listening to a comments section.

    Universally, they are one step below the incoherent babbling of a pre-verbal toddler.

    I don't think it's appropriate to dismiss someone who is interested in learning more about privilege/cultural appropriation just because her interest was provoked by a comments section.

    I don't think Than was dismissing her, simply noting that online comments tend to be writhing cesspools of various sorts of idiocy. And that's being kind. Drawing conclusions about the real world from those places is a bad idea.

  • MimMim Return of Saturn Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Thread that led me to asking

    I figured I'd post the thread so that I could give a better example of what I've done to see if it changes anyone's minds. I'm really new to this racism/sexism stuff that isn't "IN YOUR FACE KARATE CHOP TO THE NECK" obvious. So, I'm learning here.

    I am obviously gunsofporn.


    and while this obviously isn't in any relation to the thread, I don't mind if anyone befriends me on there if they're looking for buddies.

    cmwbq1k.png?1FREE HENROID
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