but it seems these days it's mostly used to turn a quick buck or fuck children
Because that's what you hear about. Lots of people go about their lives quietly enough with their faith and that does them plenty of good. Also probably a lot of small acts here and there.
It is just that the quick buck and child fucking are the loudest things.
But yeah I may seriously disagree with some things the mormon church as an entity has done but I've known mormons who are great people. So yeah this kid got jacked around but he could have discovered something that meant something to him besides the girl.
religion isn't always this evil thing a lot of people like to think of it as.
Although I guess as a corollary to that, it does kind of seem like a lot of organized religion that gets big and involved in a lot of people's lives never turns out good. Also basically any time EVER religion tries getting into politics.
I don't believe there is a single thing the churches do in modern society that wouldn't be done by secular organizations if people weren't believers.
yes, lots of churches do good things, and lots of people with faith do good things
I don't think there's any evidence that the church is the cause of this altruism
so when I look at it and see "the churches do good things that would probably be done in a less discriminatory way by secular organizations" and weigh that against the gay bashing and the sexism and the warmongering I have a difficult time justifying shackling good deeds to the distribution of scripture
Speaking of scams, I'm watching the South Park Scientology episode for the first time.
Man, people give Mormons a hard time, but, man, Scientology make them look like June and Ward Cleaver.
Scientology is one of those things I was talking about earlier when I was saying fuck being reasonable they are outright evil.
Also Monroe, I don't even see the point of that argument. Saying that "well these things would totally be done by a secular organization therefore the church has no value." It certainly has value to the members of that organization. Maybe it doesn't "make them a better person" or better prepare you for whatever but that is COMPLETELY missing the point anyway. Yeah humanism and atheism is great and whatever and doesn't make you any less of a person than somebody who goes to church, but I believe religion is a fundamental human experience that you can't quantify like that.
edit: Also Monroe, I bet there are a LOT of people out there who do good things for people because Jesus told them to. I'm not excusing any of the shitty stuff that goes on because I don't like that either.
Like, I hate getting into the religion argument, especially here, but if Mormonism is a cult, then Scientology is a Cult. And, if I was being louder a CULT.
Mormonism is wonky, admittedly, but Scientology has killed people and tried to destroy the lives of dozens of people who spoke up about the cult.
And I agree with you, Artreus, Monroe has got some straight up crap arguments. Other people could do it? So what?
ArtreusI'm a wizardAnd that looks fucked upRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
Seriously though. I doubt there is some other side to the argument we aren't seeing. Everything I've heard about scientology suggests that it is a cult. I honestly believe most religions out there aren't around mostly to make money. Sure a lot of Christian churches take money, but they use it to fund missionaries and keep the church in shape and whatnot.
Scientology takes people for everything they've got and I don't even know where that money goes.
And, without beating this dead horse too much, not drinking coffee and wearing magic underwear is a far cry away from being starved and beaten to death and hustling your followers for cash.
Like, I hate getting into the religion argument, especially here, but if Mormonism is a cult, then Scientology is a Cult. And, if I was being louder a CULT.
Mormonism is wonky, admittedly, but Scientology has killed people and tried to destroy the lives of dozens of people who spoke up about the cult.
And I agree with you, Artreus, Monroe has got some straight up crap arguments. Other people could do it? So what?
I am certainly not defending Scientology but I'm pretty certain Christians (and Catholics) and Muslims have killed and/or destroyed the lives of a lot more people who spoke out against them. Of course, Scientology is a lot younger so it's reasonable to expect them to have a lot of catching up to do. Ain't going to be respected by the big boys unless they get their violent persecution of non-believers on in a big way though.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
scientology is what happens when you try to recreate the freemasons without the benefit of being founded and developed during an age when most people can't read
I have it on good authority that the Dutch mimic the use of language by humans without actually understanding it, much like parrots.
you're just jealous that you don't speak the ONE TRUE LANGUAGE
as for us calling morrocans coolies, I've never heard that before. As far as I understand it, in dutch history, coolies was the name for indonesian house servants. or indonesian servants in general.
oh what the hell.
slaves.
jippee on
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and trundled off to the jungle
off she rode with a trumpety trump
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
I don't think anyone is saying Scientology ain't a cult
it's just, you know
Mormon's ain't exactly bettering the earth through Mormonism
I don't think the world would be a worse place if them dudes were all Buddhists
I don't know man. Just google "Mormon relief efforts" or "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints relief efforts" and then tell me the Earth isn't at least a bit better off for Mormons being on it. They are regularly and usually the quickest to respond and most helpful organization when people need relief efforts. I heard a news story that took a poll of people in the Katrina disaster and asked them which organization was the most helpful. The "Mormons" were listed #1 and the "LDS church" was listed #2. (Joke is that they are the same thing, but most people don't know that.) But I of course think I am a better person because of my religion for more reasons than that, but the relief efforts of the church are the most easily seen and quantifiable information that can be used to prove the World is better off b/c of the Mormon religion.
I just think that universal statements like "the world wouldn't be a worse place if such-and-such people didn't believe in this or that" is pretty ignorant. In fact, if people make those statements about other things outside of religion, they would be called ignorant in a heart beat.
I don't think anyone is saying Scientology ain't a cult
it's just, you know
Mormon's ain't exactly bettering the earth through Mormonism
I don't think the world would be a worse place if them dudes were all Buddhists
I don't know man. Just google "Mormon relief efforts" or "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints relief efforts" and then tell me the Earth isn't at least a bit better off for Mormons being on it. They are regularly and usually the quickest to respond and most helpful organization when people need relief efforts. I of course think I am a better person because of my religion for more reasons than that, but the relief efforts of the church are the most easily seen and quantifiable information that can be used to prove the World is better off b/c of the Mormon religion.
I just think that universal statements like "the world wouldn't be a worse place if such-and-such people didn't believe in this or that" is pretty ignorant. In fact, if people make those statements about other things outside of religion, they would be called ignorant in a heart beat.
I think he means morons. The world would be a better place if people weren't morons.
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DislexicCreepy Uncle Bad TouchYour local playgroundRegistered Userregular
Like, I hate getting into the religion argument, especially here, but if Mormonism is a cult, then Scientology is a Cult. And, if I was being louder a CULT.
Mormonism is wonky, admittedly, but Scientology has killed people and tried to destroy the lives of dozens of people who spoke up about the cult.
And I agree with you, Artreus, Monroe has got some straight up crap arguments. Other people could do it? So what?
If I understand correctly Monroe is saying that the institutions themselves are not necessary for people to good acts. In the absence of churches people would form other communities that would have altruistic principles.
People seem to make it a practice to approach me with some sob story; I guess because I look naive and gullible?
So this one time I'm walking home at like 9PM, and this fat lady approaches me. She tells me this sad story about how she's pregnant, she came to the city with her friends, but her friends all drove home drunk (she actually said "drove drunk"), and now she has no way to get back to New Jersey, and can I help her buy a bus ticket. All the while her clearly druggie boyfriend was standing right behind her.
I'm pretty sure I saw this same lady two days later chilling at a Burger King.
This other time I'm chilling at a park with my girlfriend, and these three teenagers hobble over to us and tell us how they're not drug addicts or anything like that and they need to get home to upstate but have no means to do so and can we spare some change. The ironic part of it is, they got the skinniest, the most sickly looking of the three to make this speech. To make a speech how they're not drug addicts or anything.
In both of these situations I said I have no cash on me, sorry.
And I kind of rely on that as my go to excuse to not give away my money to people who can't even lie properly. But then! I was standing at Penn Station waiting for my train when this black lady come at me yelling "CAN YOU HELP ME GET SOMETHING TO EAT?. I'M REALLY HUNGRY PLEASE HELP ME GET SOMETHING TO EAT"
So once again I mumble about lack of cash, to which I get "THAT'S OK! MCDONALD'S RIGHT THERE TAKES CREDIT CARD CAN I GET SOMETHING TO EAT!?"
I was really thrown off
So I gave her a dollar and thankfully she walked off.
DislexicCreepy Uncle Bad TouchYour local playgroundRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
It's not exactly a scam per se, but one time my brother and I were heading to our car from a baseball game, and this very clean guy very asks if he could get a couple of bucks for some child support he's behind on.
So my brother gives the guy a five and we start to get in the car. The guy says "Wow a 20! Thanks man, this'll get her off my back." My brother looks back and is like "What? I gave you a 20? No way"
The guy is just standing there grinning. He was just messing with him, so we all start cracking up. With that fantastic comedy execution, I decided to give him a five as well. Double your money for having a good sense of humor!
Yeah, I got the long story about how this guys friend had taken him out for a stag do and abandoned him with no money to get home. It was clearly nonsense as this was in a small town and he was purporting to be needing to get back to a major city - who would live in a major city and go out for a stag do to a small town? In any case, I was pretty certain he was lying but gave him a quid anyway, because he spun the yarn out and killed some of my time waiting for my bus.
I also got the "we're stuck on the other side of town and need to get back home but have no cash for the bus" from a couple in Boston. Like, right, you live in a city with a swipe card public transport system, use public transport but manage to forget to have the credit to get back home? And now you're conveniently asking a tourist who might not be familiar with the public transport system asking for the money home? Whatever. In any case, I gave them a buck and told them that's all I've got because a) there's always the possibility that they are telling the truth and b) it's not worth getting stabbed over. Of course, then they started on the 'is that all you've got? That won't get us home' routine, at which point I cut them short and moved on. Seconds later two guys walk past us and one of them flashes a gun tucked into his waist band, according to my wife. God knows what they were all about, we didn't stick around to find out. Ducked through the bouncers into our hotel. This was all outside the Boston Harbour Hotel incidentally. Rough neighbourhood?
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I never went to gay porn! I swear!
edit: nevermind, I had just searched for the song 'jocko homo' by devo. homo.
edit: nevermind, I had just searched for the song 'jocko homo' by devo. homo.
Serves you right.
Alternate response: Same thing.
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JedocIn the scupperswith the staggers and jagsRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
I hate it when beggars refuse to honor the social contract. Once I was sitting outside a restaurant waiting for my little buzzer thing to go off and this drunk in a filthy denim jacket comes up to me complaining about how his wife won't let him see his kids and a bunch of other incoherent crap. Since I was taking my girlfriend to dinner, I waited patiently for him to get to the point where he asked for money and then gave him ten bucks, since that was the smallest bill I had.
Instead of toddling off and buying eleven bottles of malt liquor, he just plopped down on the bench next to me and started going on about how generous and good-natured I was. This conversation lasted until my buzzer finally went off and we got to go eat.
Motherfucker, your job is to go away in exchange for money. And he didn't even try to ask for more money, which would have at least been a good excuse. Rube gives you ten bucks, he likely has more where that came from. But he just took my money and then sat down and decided to have a good drunken chat with me.
There needs to be a handbook or something for these people.
I hate it when beggars refuse to honor the social contract. Once I was sitting outside a restaurant waiting for my little buzzer thing to go off and this drunk in a filthy denim jacket comes up to me complaining about how his wife won't let him see his kids and a bunch of other incoherent crap. Since I was taking my girlfriend to dinner, I waited patiently for him to get to the point where he asked for money and then gave him ten bucks, since that was the smallest bill I had.
Instead of toddling off and buying eleven bottles of malt liquor, he just plopped down on the bench next to me and started going on about how generous and good-natured I was. This conversation lasted until my buzzer finally went off and we got to go eat.
Motherfucker, your job is to go away in exchange for money. And he didn't even try to ask for more money, which would have at least been a good excuse. Rube gives you ten bucks, he likely has more where that came from. But he just took my money and then sat down and decided to have a good drunken chat with me.
There needs to be a handbook or something for these people.
Forgive the guy his wife just tossed him out and you were the first person to give him more then a few dimes.
Posts
I don't believe there is a single thing the churches do in modern society that wouldn't be done by secular organizations if people weren't believers.
yes, lots of churches do good things, and lots of people with faith do good things
I don't think there's any evidence that the church is the cause of this altruism
so when I look at it and see "the churches do good things that would probably be done in a less discriminatory way by secular organizations" and weigh that against the gay bashing and the sexism and the warmongering I have a difficult time justifying shackling good deeds to the distribution of scripture
Scientology is one of those things I was talking about earlier when I was saying fuck being reasonable they are outright evil.
Also Monroe, I don't even see the point of that argument. Saying that "well these things would totally be done by a secular organization therefore the church has no value." It certainly has value to the members of that organization. Maybe it doesn't "make them a better person" or better prepare you for whatever but that is COMPLETELY missing the point anyway. Yeah humanism and atheism is great and whatever and doesn't make you any less of a person than somebody who goes to church, but I believe religion is a fundamental human experience that you can't quantify like that.
edit: Also Monroe, I bet there are a LOT of people out there who do good things for people because Jesus told them to. I'm not excusing any of the shitty stuff that goes on because I don't like that either.
Mormonism is wonky, admittedly, but Scientology has killed people and tried to destroy the lives of dozens of people who spoke up about the cult.
And I agree with you, Artreus, Monroe has got some straight up crap arguments. Other people could do it? So what?
Scientology takes people for everything they've got and I don't even know where that money goes.
it's just, you know
Mormon's ain't exactly bettering the earth through Mormonism
I don't think the world would be a worse place if them dudes were all Buddhists
I am certainly not defending Scientology but I'm pretty certain Christians (and Catholics) and Muslims have killed and/or destroyed the lives of a lot more people who spoke out against them. Of course, Scientology is a lot younger so it's reasonable to expect them to have a lot of catching up to do. Ain't going to be respected by the big boys unless they get their violent persecution of non-believers on in a big way though.
you're just jealous that you don't speak the ONE TRUE LANGUAGE
as for us calling morrocans coolies, I've never heard that before. As far as I understand it, in dutch history, coolies was the name for indonesian house servants. or indonesian servants in general.
oh what the hell.
slaves.
and trundled off to the jungle
off she rode with a trumpety trump
trump trump trump
I don't know man. Just google "Mormon relief efforts" or "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints relief efforts" and then tell me the Earth isn't at least a bit better off for Mormons being on it. They are regularly and usually the quickest to respond and most helpful organization when people need relief efforts. I heard a news story that took a poll of people in the Katrina disaster and asked them which organization was the most helpful. The "Mormons" were listed #1 and the "LDS church" was listed #2. (Joke is that they are the same thing, but most people don't know that.) But I of course think I am a better person because of my religion for more reasons than that, but the relief efforts of the church are the most easily seen and quantifiable information that can be used to prove the World is better off b/c of the Mormon religion.
I just think that universal statements like "the world wouldn't be a worse place if such-and-such people didn't believe in this or that" is pretty ignorant. In fact, if people make those statements about other things outside of religion, they would be called ignorant in a heart beat.
Mountain Meadows Massacre
Apparently my relatives were there (getting massacred).
They made a movie about it a year or so ago with Jon Voight!
I think he means morons. The world would be a better place if people weren't morons.
This, this right here, this is a fantastic example of why you shouldn't trust any religion.
If I understand correctly Monroe is saying that the institutions themselves are not necessary for people to good acts. In the absence of churches people would form other communities that would have altruistic principles.
Back to scams!
People seem to make it a practice to approach me with some sob story; I guess because I look naive and gullible?
So this one time I'm walking home at like 9PM, and this fat lady approaches me. She tells me this sad story about how she's pregnant, she came to the city with her friends, but her friends all drove home drunk (she actually said "drove drunk"), and now she has no way to get back to New Jersey, and can I help her buy a bus ticket. All the while her clearly druggie boyfriend was standing right behind her.
I'm pretty sure I saw this same lady two days later chilling at a Burger King.
This other time I'm chilling at a park with my girlfriend, and these three teenagers hobble over to us and tell us how they're not drug addicts or anything like that and they need to get home to upstate but have no means to do so and can we spare some change. The ironic part of it is, they got the skinniest, the most sickly looking of the three to make this speech. To make a speech how they're not drug addicts or anything.
In both of these situations I said I have no cash on me, sorry.
And I kind of rely on that as my go to excuse to not give away my money to people who can't even lie properly. But then! I was standing at Penn Station waiting for my train when this black lady come at me yelling "CAN YOU HELP ME GET SOMETHING TO EAT?. I'M REALLY HUNGRY PLEASE HELP ME GET SOMETHING TO EAT"
So once again I mumble about lack of cash, to which I get "THAT'S OK! MCDONALD'S RIGHT THERE TAKES CREDIT CARD CAN I GET SOMETHING TO EAT!?"
I was really thrown off
So I gave her a dollar and thankfully she walked off.
BF3 Battlelog | Twitter | World of Warships | World of Tanks | Wishlist
So my brother gives the guy a five and we start to get in the car. The guy says "Wow a 20! Thanks man, this'll get her off my back." My brother looks back and is like "What? I gave you a 20? No way"
The guy is just standing there grinning. He was just messing with him, so we all start cracking up. With that fantastic comedy execution, I decided to give him a five as well. Double your money for having a good sense of humor!
I heard that Siddhartha Guatama was one of the producers for Reign of Fire.
He used a fake name, obviously.
PS4:MrZoompants
Who the fuck is that? Also, fuck that piece of shit movie. It absolutely ruined contemporary dragons for me.
I also got the "we're stuck on the other side of town and need to get back home but have no cash for the bus" from a couple in Boston. Like, right, you live in a city with a swipe card public transport system, use public transport but manage to forget to have the credit to get back home? And now you're conveniently asking a tourist who might not be familiar with the public transport system asking for the money home? Whatever. In any case, I gave them a buck and told them that's all I've got because a) there's always the possibility that they are telling the truth and b) it's not worth getting stabbed over. Of course, then they started on the 'is that all you've got? That won't get us home' routine, at which point I cut them short and moved on. Seconds later two guys walk past us and one of them flashes a gun tucked into his waist band, according to my wife. God knows what they were all about, we didn't stick around to find out. Ducked through the bouncers into our hotel. This was all outside the Boston Harbour Hotel incidentally. Rough neighbourhood?
We're all Buddha.
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I never went to gay porn! I swear!
edit: nevermind, I had just searched for the song 'jocko homo' by devo. homo.
That was the one where Christian Bale played the tough-guy loner hero with the gruff voice, right?
gay sex
home financing!
gay sex
No, that was... Empire of the Sun.
Buh-zing.
ahahahahahaha
Serves you right.
Alternate response: Same thing.
Instead of toddling off and buying eleven bottles of malt liquor, he just plopped down on the bench next to me and started going on about how generous and good-natured I was. This conversation lasted until my buzzer finally went off and we got to go eat.
Motherfucker, your job is to go away in exchange for money. And he didn't even try to ask for more money, which would have at least been a good excuse. Rube gives you ten bucks, he likely has more where that came from. But he just took my money and then sat down and decided to have a good drunken chat with me.
There needs to be a handbook or something for these people.
Forgive the guy his wife just tossed him out and you were the first person to give him more then a few dimes.