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Car Problem - Radiator

RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
edited April 2010 in Help / Advice Forum
2005 Hyundai Elantra GT probably about

alright a while back my orange engine indicator light came on on the dash. It also regularly got very hot.

A little after that it became difficult to start if it had been driven for a while. I figured this was due to overheating. It would crank alright but had trouble getting to that one point where the engine catches and it starts up. It cranked at normal speed and the lights did not dim when i cranked it. The fuel pump also turned on and off so I figured it was fine.

Occasionally the orange engine light would turn off, only to come back on a little later.



After 2 weeks or so of this i finally was able to get it in to an autozone to determine what was going on. I was told that all I needed was coolant so I filled the tank with the stuff. The guy said to ignore the 50/50 coolant/water rule and just do 100% coolant from now on. While he was filling it with coolant, he told me to turn it on. For some reason he didn't feel the need to put the cap on while i did this and coolant spurted out and spilled quite a lot of it onto various things under the hood. He apologized and wiped a little of it away.

I took it back home and it sat overnight. The next day I drove about 20-ish miles to my mom's place. Highways and roads. About 14 miles in, smoke starts coming out from under the hood. It dies at a stop light and the battery light comes on.

I pop the hood. What i am told is the Radiator Overflow Hose (right next to the cap) has come away, and there's a lot of blackened material around that looks like burned rubber, so I assume it melted. I think the smoke was from the burning coolant, as the air smelled like it (sweet)

I got a tow to a shop and I receive a message today that

1) they need to replace my radiator because of "gunk"

2) they can't seem to start my car. They are thinking i need a new fucking engine



H/A help me not get fucked over a barrel. I am not too handy with cars so layman's terms

I also do not have the car handy, so I'll try my best


I understand there is a Hyundai warranty for 10 years/100,000 miles but i'm not sure if I'm covered

Raneados on
Dubh wrote: »
Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition

Posts

  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    If your radiator went it's possible that your engine seized, in which case yep you're boned. Might be worth having it sent to a Hyundai specialist so they're less likely to fuck you/fuck up on the repair though.

  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    that's not what i wanted to hear!

    :(

    you can't fix an engine seizing?

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • AurinAurin Registered User
    edited April 2010
    Raneados wrote: »
    that's not what i wanted to hear!

    :(

    you can't fix an engine seizing?

    Unfortunately it means that the pieces inside the engine got hot, expanded, and locked together. Once they've done that, it pretty much screws the whole thing over.

    If it's gotten hot enough to melt things off, it might have seized. But, I would second the idea of taking it to a Hyundai dealer to make sure that the engine really is totally borked.

    A lesson for the future: Do not screw around with overheating vehicles, it's expensive. :( I've learned this lesson myself, too.

  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    it's over in clearwater right now at my step-dad's preferred shop so they're looking into it

    I'll start looking into hyundai dealers over there


    god

    fuck

    shit

    i seriously can't afford the... about 5k+ for a new engine?

    seriously this thing has less than 60k miles what the HELL

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • mooshoeporkmooshoepork Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I stupidly did the exact same fucking thing. I broke down on a bridge. Without a phone. In peak hour.

    You've probably warped the head of your engine/blown a head gasket. You can get the head shaved, which is what I did. I ended up getting it done without paying a mechanic, but it wasn't worth it.

    It'll take a mechanic at least 6 hours to get it all apart to SEE how much you've fucked it. It's probably not worth the money.

    edit: it really sucks but there's not much else you can do. It might end up costing more to fix it than to just buy a new car.

    edit 2: it's a 2005. Maybe not then. It'll probably still be really expensive.

    My car was only worth about 1 grand...I probably paid about that in parts getting it fixed +20-30 hours of my labour.

  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    i paid 8k for the car a little over a year ago

    godamnit am i back to the fucking bus

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • AurinAurin Registered User
    edited April 2010
    Less than 60k miles? Wow. That just doesn't seem right for that sort of thing... though I guess it depends on the weather. We never filled up our 2002 Camaro with antifreeze, and it lasted 8 years and 88k miles before it started getting hot (in Arizona).

    If your step-dad trusts the mechanics there, I probably wouldn't bother with the dealership. It must have gotten really hot to burn through that overflow hose, too.

    And yeah, it'll be expensive no matter which way you look at it, unfortunately.

  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    seriously this isn't covered by the hyundai 100k/10 year warranty?

    because this seems like a thing that should not happen

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • AurinAurin Registered User
    edited April 2010
    If you've got any warranty information on that thing, by all means, take it to the dealership pronto. It really shouldn't have been that low on antifreeze to start with.

  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    maybe i have a leak

    I'll look into dealerships over there, I'll have more information tomorrow when I'll be able to talk to my step-dad

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • FatsFats Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Raneados wrote: »
    seriously this thing has less than 60k miles what the HELL

    I don't want to be mean, but it wasn't the car's fault. You basically killed it by letting it overheat a bunch. Two weeks of "very hot" doesn't sound good, especially if your coolant was low for that entire period.

    Edit: Also, for future reference, the Autozone guy was quite incorrect, you do not want to run straight coolant. The water provides the actual cooling capacity, the coolant is there to retard corrosion and lower the freezing point while raising the boiling point. If he actually put straight coolant in there it probably hastened your car's demise.

  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    oh probably but if there's a chance i can reduce the cost, I am going to

    it was running quite fine up until the day after i put coolant in

    barf!

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • RaekreuRaekreu Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Never, and I mean, NEVER trust anyone who works at an autozone/advance auto parts/etc for maintenance advice. There is a reason why those people work at a chain store and not at an independent garage or dealership.

    Pure ethylene glycol DOES have a higher boiling point than 50/50 antifreeze. The problem is that once it gets to its boiling point, it doesn't turn into vapor as easily as water. Instead, it turns into viscous sludge. If there was a problem with your car's cooling system that was fairly minor, that yo-yo at the autozone turned it into something far, far worse.

  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Raekreu wrote: »
    Never, and I mean, NEVER trust anyone who works at an autozone/advance auto parts/etc for maintenance advice. There is a reason why those people work at a chain store and not at an independent garage or dealership.

    Pure ethylene glycol DOES have a higher boiling point than 50/50 antifreeze. The problem is that once it gets to its boiling point, it doesn't turn into vapor as easily as water. Instead, it turns into viscous sludge. If there was a problem with your car's cooling system that was fairly minor, that yo-yo at the autozone turned it into something far, far worse.

    WHAT



    edit: although I'm not ready to start pointing fingers at anyone but myself, I did not know this

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • RaekreuRaekreu Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Raneados wrote: »
    Raekreu wrote: »
    Never, and I mean, NEVER trust anyone who works at an autozone/advance auto parts/etc for maintenance advice. There is a reason why those people work at a chain store and not at an independent garage or dealership.

    Pure ethylene glycol DOES have a higher boiling point than 50/50 antifreeze. The problem is that once it gets to its boiling point, it doesn't turn into vapor as easily as water. Instead, it turns into viscous sludge. If there was a problem with your car's cooling system that was fairly minor, that yo-yo at the autozone turned it into something far, far worse.

    WHAT



    edit: although I'm not ready to start pointing fingers at anyone but myself, I did not know this

    I'm sorry, man...I know what it's like to have a new car go bad on you. Hell, I drove a Lincoln towncar with a cracked engine block for almost 8 months and found out later that it was a miracle the car didn't just burst into flames every single time I started it.

    If you're still covered by the Hyundai warranty, I would NOT mention anything that you learned in this thread to them.

  • FatsFats Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Raneados wrote: »
    oh probably but if there's a chance i can reduce the cost, I am going to

    it was running quite fine up until the day after i put coolant in

    barf!

    There's certainly no harm in contacting Hyundai, though if you mention what actually happened I'm almost positive they'll tell you to bugger off.

    I would get a verification from the mechanic that the engine is actually seized before tossing the car, though.

  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    fingers crossed

    at least now I know where the sludge in the radiator came from and what that black stuff was

    i thought it was melted rubber

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • RaekreuRaekreu Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Raneados wrote: »
    fingers crossed

    at least now I know where the sludge in the radiator came from and what that black stuff was

    i thought it was melted rubber

    What color was the sludge and what color was the antifreeze?

  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    oh by the way

    computer codes the guy at autozone gave me

    P0117
    Engine Coolant Temperature Circuit Low

    P0196
    Engine Oil Temperature Sensor Range/Performance

    p0128 x2
    Coolant Thermostat Below Thermostat Regulating Temperature


    Now, the light on the dash never flashed. I looked at my manual and it said to bring it in whenever i could. It said BLINKING was the immediate STOP DRIVING FUCKING NOW thing. I brought it in when I could :/

    the autozone guy said my only problem was low coolant and added some



    the day after: car explode

    the sludge I noticed around the radiatr cap and just inside the cap (all i could see) was black, or near it

    the coolant was amber

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • MidshipmanMidshipman Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    It's a bit late, but this is a good lesson in why it's important to know how to check the coolant and oil levels in your car. Keeping an eye on the engine temperature gauge is also a good practice. My old car had a very funky radiator. Several times I had my coolant get dangerously low, but I always caught it because I'd notice my engine temp spiking and the engine noise changing tone. I ended up carrying a couple anti-freeze bottles filled with water just in case. You definitely want to pull over immediately if you notice a high engine temperature.

    midshipman.jpg
  • SkeithSkeith I've been a little bit naughty.Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    the coolant was amber

    Was it always orange coolant? Because if you had the green stuff in there, and the guy added straight orange... he probably did help it to an early grave. If you mix extended life stuff (orange) with the green without flushing the system, it speeds up corrosion. Least, that's what I've been told. Best thing you can hope for is that the warranty will cover it, even partially, because if the engine seized up you're pretty well fucked.

    mts wrote: »
    heres how i see it being a total win situation for you
    1. stay with your wife while she dog sits. this wins husband points since she knows its out of your comfort zone
    2. have sex all over her friends house so that the next time you see her friend look at you condescendingly, you can wink back knowing you did the freaky deaky where she eats her cheerios.
  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    no idea what it was before, but I can probably find out

    but the bottle says you can add it or combine it with any other coolant/antifreeze with no problem

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Might want to go to the chain store and talk to this dude's manager, be like hey

    Your car guy broke my car

    So are you going to pay for the repairs or am I going to write to the local paper about this or what

  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Midshipman wrote: »
    It's a bit late, but this is a good lesson in why it's important to know how to check the coolant and oil levels in your car. Keeping an eye on the engine temperature gauge is also a good practice. My old car had a very funky radiator. Several times I had my coolant get dangerously low, but I always caught it because I'd notice my engine temp spiking and the engine noise changing tone. I ended up carrying a couple anti-freeze bottles filled with water just in case. You definitely want to pull over immediately if you notice a high engine temperature.

    There's a problem with cars made within the last 15 years or so. The temp gauges are all electronic. They're there to make you feel better that your car isn't overheating. They don't show any sort of real temperature. They just give you an estimate, at best. Notice the needle is ALWAYS perfectly in the center? Yeah, that's because while there is usually a lot of real variation, the ECU of the car won't start moving it until you actually start overheating. And then the needle will suddenly fly up and you'll get overheating warnings.

    But yeah. Sorry for your car, Raneados. Since you paid $8K a little over a year ago, and it'll cost you a pretty penny to replace the engine, I'd say just call it junk and get another one. Spend the $5k, or whatever that the shops will charge you to replace your car, on another car.

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  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    well the current estimate is 2K

    which is a lot better, but they're still figuring out what is up with everything



    I have absolutely no idea what kind of recourse I can bring to the autozone, if any. I have no proof except a receipt saying I bought coolant there with a debit card.

    I cannot afford a lawyer, it'd cost less to just buy a shitass car

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • eternalbleternalbl Registered User
    edited April 2010
    Getting this car fixed at 2k really depends on how well maintained the vehicle is apart from this. If you've kept good care of your car up to this point, a $2000 shit ass car is likely to be in worse condition than your current car would be in after having it repaired. And just because a car is shit ass, doesn't make repairs any less expensive.

    Have you tried contacting a Hyundai dealer to see if they could look at it from a warranty standpoint?

    Spoiler:
  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    warranty is a no go in all likelihood

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • travathiantravathian Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Doesn't hurt to give them a call or ask for an estimate to see if some of it might be covered. Though, if it was purchased used, does the full warranty transfer? And yeah, given there is no concrete proof Autozone is to blame, and it'd be a he said, she said type of situation, I wouldn't bother. Not to mention the fact that Autozone can just claim buyer beware. It is not like their employees are certified or licensed like doctors or lawyers are in order to be held accountable for professional advice given.

  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    i did

    they said "probably no"

    and no it's a used car so i only get a 5 year/60k


    and i know i'm grasping at straws with the autozone thing, but apparently it's a big no-no for him to actually:

    1) tell me he fixed my problem
    2) work on the car himself (he put the coolant in etc)

    in all likelihood I'm just going to wrote autozone corporate a letter detailing the whole thing and basically leave it at that. I expect nothing more than a "sucks for you"

    but hey, many car lessons are being learned so hooray?

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • travathiantravathian Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Do you have a bill of sale for that service? No. Meaning the employee did it as a favor, there is no implied warranty, and the onus is on you to ensure things were done properly. I mean Autozone might throw you a bone, but I see no compulsion on their part to do so. I've had an Autozone employee help me replace a battery because at the time I was dressed in a suit. But again, they did it as a matter of being friendly and helpful, not as part of a paid service which the company offers.

    This is entirely different from taking it to a shop to get the oil changed and 5 miles down the road you see your oil gauge at 0 and the engine overheating. In this case you paid for parts and a service and can hold the shop liable for negligence in performing that service.

    But yeah, life and car lessons being learned kinda suck. I seized the engine on an old turbo'd LeBaron from stupidly thinking I could make it a few more miles home as the temp gauge is sliding to the right. That was a $2k mistake.

  • fatmousefatmouse Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but I think you have little to no recourse for reimbursement from autozone. the damage was done long before autozone put any coolant in your radiator.

    From your description:

    alright a while back my orange engine indicator light came on on the dash. It also regularly got very hot.

    A little after that it became difficult to start if it had been driven for a while. I figured this was due to overheating. It would crank alright but had trouble getting to that one point where the engine catches and it starts up. It cranked at normal speed and the lights did not dim when i cranked it. The fuel pump also turned on and off so I figured it was fine.

    When the engine started having trouble starting, you were boned big time. The damage was already done so to speak and I think its more of a coincidence that it seized the day after autozone than anything autozone did.

    You stated that the engine regularly gets very hot. One time getting very hot is all it takes to completely mess a motor up, depending up on how the engine is made. In your case the motor was pretty resilient, a testament to its construction. My guess is that a warranty will not cover you since the computer will probably have logged all of the temperature problems.

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