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Apple To Developers: Fuck You

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Posts

  • AtomikaAtomika Merry Christmas your arse I pray God it's our lastRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    mcdermott wrote: »
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    Well, Apple is shutting down Lala in a month. I didn't think they were going to be that evil.

    To be honest, Lala was probably losing money and the owners cashed out.

    Apple is at least giving people credit for the songs / a check for all their web-only songs instead of just turning it off.

    That's unfounded speculation. What I do know is that Apple bought out, then shut down the only service that lets me listen to an album before I buy it. The only way that I won't be pissed at them is they come out with a super-secret web-based platform where you can listen to songs before you buy them that offers MP3s and has a nice, slick interface. Which doesn't seem terribly likely.

    You can preview songs on iTunes. Not the whole thing, but I can't think of too many situations where I'm looking to buy a song I've never heard before.

    I, on the other hand, am often looking for new music that I've not heard before. Sure, I can cue up a station on Last.fm or something and wait for new stuff I like...or I can browse around an actual music store and listen to previews on demand.

    Unfortunately, it seems like half the time iTunes chooses parts of the song to preview that are in no way representative of the song (and that's assuming we're talking about less complex songs that can be represented easily by a 45 second snippet anyway).

    If they just want to prevent people from using their previews as a personal jukebox, that's easy...just lower the quality, either by reducing bitrate, making it mono, or both.

    Hrm.

    I would guess that the majority of the paying iTunes customers don't fit your model, McDermott. Not that your idea isn't good, because it is, and I'd be surprised if something like that didn't happen in a year or so, given enough industry support.

    Unfortunately, I don't think Apple is thinking too much about the "people who buy things of which they have no idea what those things are like" niche.

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Unfortunately, I don't think Apple is thinking too much about the "people who buy things of which they have no idea what those things are like" niche.

    I might agree, except that when I buy a track the iTunes store automatically suggests six or so random-ass songs I've often never heard before that I might also enjoy.

    One would assume they expect me to, you know, preview those tracks to determine if I like them.

    And it would be silly to assume that I've heard all of them previously.

  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited May 2010
    iTunes offers a whole lot of free streams and podcasts, which are pretty good ways to be introduced to new music.

    It would surprise me if they didn't create some sort of analogue to pandora in the near future, tied into iTunes. I never used lala, so i don't really know the deal with it, but it strikes me that apple wants to have a hand in everything that is going on wrt music and the internet. It would shock me if they bought lala just to shut it down. Either they're integrating the functionality or they just decided it wasn't really viable.

    Wqdwp8l.png
  • AtomikaAtomika Merry Christmas your arse I pray God it's our lastRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I don't think Apple is thinking too much about the "people who buy things of which they have no idea what those things are like" niche.

    I might agree, except that when I buy a track the iTunes store automatically suggests six or so random-ass songs I've often never heard before that I might also enjoy.

    One would assume they expect me to, you know, preview those tracks to determine if I like them.

    And it would be silly to assume that I've heard all of them previously.

    Well, if your Genius is anything like mine, you wouldn't like those songs anyway.


    Seriously, my Genius is retarded.


    "I see that you're a big fan of Natalie Merchant, Cowboy Junkies, and Tom Waites. Might I suggest some Korn or Lady Gaga?"

  • oldsakoldsak Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    RandomEngy wrote: »

    That's unfounded speculation. What I do know is that Apple bought out, then shut down the only service that lets me listen to an album before I buy it.

    It doesn't sell music, but I preview music on Grooveshark
    Seriously, my Genius is retarded.

    I never use itunes, much less buy anything from them, but I went ahead and updated to the new version because I heard people say great things about Genius. So far, my experience has been that it's total crap.

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited May 2010
    oldsak wrote: »
    RandomEngy wrote: »

    That's unfounded speculation. What I do know is that Apple bought out, then shut down the only service that lets me listen to an album before I buy it.

    It doesn't sell music, but I preview music on Grooveshark
    Seriously, my Genius is retarded.

    I never use itunes, much less buy anything from them, but I went ahead and updated to the new version because I heard people say great things about Genius. So far, my experience has been that it's total crap.

    Genius works really well with

    1) Music you bought through iTunes
    2) Music you spent a great deal of time tagging like the music from iTunes.

    Outside of that, it is kind of rubbish.

    After tagging my shit completely, I became happy with its performance... but that is a process I do not expect most people want to do.

  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    You can preview songs on iTunes. Not the whole thing, but I can't think of too many situations where I'm looking to buy a song I've never heard before.

    Once you get used to it, it's hard to go back. For example it's useful when you hear some music from someone and want to listen to the rest of their stuff and pick out the songs/albums you like. Or if you're buying music from a movie soundtrack and don't really know which tracks have all the good stuff in them. 30 seconds doesn't give you a very accurate picture of what the song is like.

    There may be other ways to get song previews but it's a pain to find the same song twice on two different services.

    Anyway, I don't get the thinking behind the 30 second restriction. They think people are going to be content to listen to a song once, enjoy it, then never hear it again?
    Natheo wrote: »

    Good to see they're looking into it.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Natheo wrote: »

    Gee, who would have thunk it? The government might see Apple's move as potentially anti-competitive and look to investigate?

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  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Natheo wrote: »

    Gee, who would have thunk it? The government might see Apple's move as potentially anti-competitive and look to investigate?

    That's how it's supposed to work. Nice to see it do.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Well, it's official now - Reuters and the WSJ are reporting that the FTC and DoJ are hammering out the details on an investigation of Apple regarding the 3.3.1 and 3.3.9 clause changes.

    And people said there were no grounds to do so...

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  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    I hope nothing comes out of the investigation and it ends up being a gigantic waste of time and money for FTC and DoJ.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Well, I'm surprised. The only thing I can think of that gives them a gripe with Apple and not the video game consoles is going from multiple ways to develop to just the one.

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  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Well, it's official now - Reuters and the WSJ are reporting that the FTC and DoJ are hammering out the details on an investigation of Apple regarding the 3.3.1 and 3.3.9 clause changes.

    And people said there were no grounds to do so...

    No, they said there aren't grounds for a conviction. I, for one, am all for an investigation.

  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Robert Reich finds this ridiculous and that there are more important things the FTC should be dealing with
    Apple Isn’t the Problem. Wall Street’s Big Banks are the Problem.
    TUESDAY, MAY 4, 2010

    Why is the Federal Trade Commission threatening Apple with a possible lawsuit for abusing its economic power, but not even raising an eyebrow about the huge and growing economic (and political) muscle of JP Morgan Chase or any of the other four remaining giant banks on Wall Street?

    Our future well being depends more on people like Steve Jobs who invent real products that can improve our lives, than it does on people like Jamie Dimon who invent financial products that do little other than threaten our economy.

    Apple’s supposed sin was to tell software developers that if they want to make apps for iPhones and iPads they have to use Apple programming tools. No more outside tools (like Adobe’s Flash format) that can run on rival devices like Google’s Android phones and RIM’s BlackBerrys.

    What’s wrong with that? Apple says it’s necessary to maintain quality. If consumers disagree they can buy platforms elsewhere. Apple was the world’s #3 smartphone supplier in 2009, with 16.2 percent of worldwide market share. RIM was #2, with 18.8 percent. Google isn’t exactly a wallflower. These and other firms are innovating like mad, as are tens of thousands of independent developers. If Apple’s decision reduces the number of future apps that can run on its products, Apple will suffer and presumably change its mind.

    On the other hand, the four largest U.S. financial institutions are so big and the rest of the economy so dependent on them that if one of them makes a bad decision it can take us all down. Between them they hold more than $7 trillion in assets, over half the size of the entire U.S. economy.

    So why is the FTC nosing around Apple and not around Wall Street? Because the Federal Trade Commission Act allows the agency to stop “unfair methods of competition” almost anywhere in the economy except in the financial sector. Banks are explicitly excluded.

    Another reason for financial reform.

    And how are we doing on that front? Senate Dems and Republicans have just agreed to jettison a $50 billion fund in the financial reform bill that would have been used to wind down operations of a failing bank. Republicans had created a smokescreen by alleging that the fund could be used for more bailouts. They don’t want the public to see the real problem – that the biggest banks are so big that if one or two gets into trouble, the Fed or the Federal Deposit Insurance Company will almost certainly have to bail them out in order to protect the financial system. And this implicit guarantee allows them to make even riskier bets that generate even bigger profits – enabling them to grow even larger.

    The only way to make sure no bank is too big to fail is to ensure no bank is too big. The biggest banks should be broken up. Senators Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) and Ted Kaufman (D-Del) have introduced an amendment that would do exactly that. And a growing number of House members are getting ready to do the same.

    Hands off Apple. But cut the big banks down to size.

    SEGATA SANSHIRO! LIVE AGAIN!
    Lanz.gif
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Um... do we have any proof that investigating Apple is somehow taking manpower away from investigating the investment banks? I'm reasonably sure the FTC employs more than a couple of dudes.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Um... do we have any proof that investigating Apple is somehow taking manpower away from investigating the investment banks? I'm reasonably sure the FTC employs more than a couple of dudes.

    Actually the fact is that the FTC doesn't have authority over the financial sector because that part of the economy has its own specific Federal watchdog (namely, the SEC).

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  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    And even if they didn't have enough resources to investigate both, that would be a reason to hire more people, not just ignore anti-competitive practices from every other company.

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  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Well, I'm surprised. The only thing I can think of that gives them a gripe with Apple and not the video game consoles is going from multiple ways to develop to just the one.

    It probably also has to do with Apple's marketshare, and the relative importance of a cellphone compared to a video game in day-to-day life.

    georgersig.jpg
  • DVGDVG Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Well, I'm surprised. The only thing I can think of that gives them a gripe with Apple and not the video game consoles is going from multiple ways to develop to just the one.

    It probably also has to do with Apple's marketshare, and the relative importance of a cellphone compared to a video game in day-to-day life.

    The importance of the market doesn't matter as far as competition law goes, and the only way the marketshare matters is if they're doing shady things to gain that marketshare (like price fixing), as opposed to offering a good, popular product.

    An inquiry isn't a big deal, and as big as they've gotten in the cell phone market it's probably inevitable, I'd be very surprised if charges were actually brought.

    Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    oldsak wrote: »
    RandomEngy wrote: »

    That's unfounded speculation. What I do know is that Apple bought out, then shut down the only service that lets me listen to an album before I buy it.

    It doesn't sell music, but I preview music on Grooveshark
    Seriously, my Genius is retarded.

    I never use itunes, much less buy anything from them, but I went ahead and updated to the new version because I heard people say great things about Genius. So far, my experience has been that it's total crap.

    Genius works really well with

    1) Music you bought through iTunes
    2) Music you spent a great deal of time tagging like the music from iTunes.

    Outside of that, it is kind of rubbish.

    After tagging my shit completely, I became happy with its performance... but that is a process I do not expect most people want to do.

    Well, you really only have to have Artist/Album/Track (or just Artist/Track) tags, and they need to be relatively accurate.

    But yeah, once you do that it works well. Though that still depends both on how mainstream the track you're working from is, and how much music you have in your library that complements it.

  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Opera sides with Apple in the Flash debacle.

    Good. The sooner Flash disappears, the better.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    DVG wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Well, I'm surprised. The only thing I can think of that gives them a gripe with Apple and not the video game consoles is going from multiple ways to develop to just the one.

    It probably also has to do with Apple's marketshare, and the relative importance of a cellphone compared to a video game in day-to-day life.

    The importance of the market doesn't matter as far as competition law goes, and the only way the marketshare matters is if they're doing shady things to gain that marketshare (like price fixing), as opposed to offering a good, popular product.

    An inquiry isn't a big deal, and as big as they've gotten in the cell phone market it's probably inevitable, I'd be very surprised if charges were actually brought.

    importance matters in terms of whether or not they bother to look in to it.

    it doesn't change the law, it changes the reaction

    georgersig.jpg
  • JHunzJHunz Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Opera sides with Apple in the Flash debacle.

    Good. The sooner Flash disappears, the better.

    No surprise there. The reason I stopped using Opera (many years ago) was when every Flash object that loaded up crashed the whole browser. I assume it's gotten better since then, but I'm sure they'd like it to die.

    bunny.gif Gamertag: JHunz. R.I.P. Mygamercard.net bunny.gif
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    JHunz wrote: »
    Opera sides with Apple in the Flash debacle.

    Good. The sooner Flash disappears, the better.

    No surprise there. The reason I stopped using Opera (many years ago) was when every Flash object that loaded up crashed the whole browser. I assume it's gotten better since then, but I'm sure they'd like it to die.
    They're only saying that because Apple let them put their shitty browser on the I-phone.

    bar_zps02bac615.jpg
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited May 2010
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    JHunz wrote: »
    Opera sides with Apple in the Flash debacle.

    Good. The sooner Flash disappears, the better.

    No surprise there. The reason I stopped using Opera (many years ago) was when every Flash object that loaded up crashed the whole browser. I assume it's gotten better since then, but I'm sure they'd like it to die.
    They're only saying that because Apple let them put their shitty browser on the I-phone.
    And microsoft is only saying it because...?

  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    JHunz wrote: »
    Opera sides with Apple in the Flash debacle.

    Good. The sooner Flash disappears, the better.

    No surprise there. The reason I stopped using Opera (many years ago) was when every Flash object that loaded up crashed the whole browser. I assume it's gotten better since then, but I'm sure they'd like it to die.
    They're only saying that because Apple let them put their shitty browser on the I-phone.
    And microsoft is only saying it because...?

    Yeah, it's pretty clear that DanHibiki doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

    The fact is this: Flash has to go. Everyone knows it, but only a few companies are brave enough to actually say it. Microsoft, Apple, Opera, etc. They others... they are quite happy to ride on the shoulders of a broken, insecure, unstable platform. They can rot in hell along with Flash.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    When Jobs put out his "This is why Flash sucks" statement I thought it was sort of a silly PR move, but if the point was to draw a line in the sand and get more people to come out on their side, then it makes a lot more sense.

    I guess that's why Jobs is the head of a giant company instead of me.

  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So, I'm curious, what are people's opinions of Silverlight?

    So far as my own personal experiences, it's cut from the exact same cloth as Flash, but I don't know if what I've seen was the norm or not. Nor have I ever used it on a mobile device*...just websites (which is the same as my flash experiences). The only redeeming feature to me was that it hadn't really caught on (although need to use it for netflix's instant watch on PC)

    *It already runs on SymbianOS now, so far as I've heard. It also sounds like it'll be on the "Windows 7" phone.

    I saw its soul, envied its pride, but needed nothing it had
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  • taerictaeric Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2010
    KalTorak wrote: »
    When Jobs put out his "This is why Flash sucks" statement I thought it was sort of a silly PR move, but if the point was to draw a line in the sand and get more people to come out on their side, then it makes a lot more sense.

    I guess that's why Jobs is the head of a giant company instead of me.

    Jobs also did a very good job of taking what is basically a derailment and turning that into the talking point. Flash isn't popular because it is a better video or game delivery mechanism. It is popular because they built a fairly good development environment that some media production sites use quite effectively. Someone linked to the webby's before. Basically, there are a slew of very well made websites. A disproportionate number of them use flash. Again, to think they do this because it is a better delivery tool is misplaced. It is the authoring that is the true gem there.

    Hell, even the flash games that are done are by people that likely couldn't get as much done in another environment as quickly. To downplay that is a lie. The tactic here is to bolster the marketshare of the Apple dev kit not on its virtues, but by requiring it.

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    End wrote: »
    So, I'm curious, what are people's opinions of Silverlight?

    So far as my own personal experiences, it's cut from the exact same cloth as Flash, but I don't know if what I've seen was the norm or not. Nor have I ever used it on a mobile device*...just websites (which is the same as my flash experiences). The only redeeming feature to me was that it hadn't really caught on (although need to use it for netflix's instant watch on PC)

    *It already runs on SymbianOS now, so far as I've heard. It also sounds like it'll be on the "Windows 7" phone.

    It's better than Flash and has a lot of backend integration with other microsoft products.

  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    JHunz wrote: »
    Opera sides with Apple in the Flash debacle.

    Good. The sooner Flash disappears, the better.

    No surprise there. The reason I stopped using Opera (many years ago) was when every Flash object that loaded up crashed the whole browser. I assume it's gotten better since then, but I'm sure they'd like it to die.
    They're only saying that because Apple let them put their shitty browser on the I-phone.
    And microsoft is only saying it because...?

    Silverlight

    bar_zps02bac615.jpg
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Is there a reason Silverlight never really took off? Besides, y'know, Flash?

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  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Is there a reason Silverlight never really took off? Besides, y'know, Flash?
    It's really frustrating to write Silverlight stuff. Things that should be easy seem very difficult. At least last time I checked. It bugs me because Silverlight has potential (Netflix runs on Silverlight), but it feels like MS is half ignoring it.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wow. Nintendo just declared war on Apple.

    This could get interesting.

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  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wow. Nintendo just declared war on Apple.

    This could get interesting.

    It'd be more interesting with links.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wow. Nintendo just declared war on Apple.

    This could get interesting.

    Link?

    Not particularly surprising; Nintendo has been sitting pretty on the top of the handheld gaming industry for... well, pretty much ever since the Game Boy came out. Apple hasn't been making any secret of the fact that they're gunning for handheld gaming marketshare since the new iPods came out, and now they're trying to launch an Xbox Live-style gaming network.

  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    That's hardly "declaring war." Stop being sensationalist.
    Satoru Iwata, the Nintendo president, is understood to have told his senior executives recently to regard the battle with Sony as a victory already won and to treat Apple, and its iPhone and iPad devices, as the “enemy of the future”.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited May 2010
    I really really like how enemy of the future can be misunderstood.

    like, instead of nintendos next competitor in the handheld space, they are the enemy of progress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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