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Tablet PCs and why can't I find one I like. Help?

sonictksonictk Registered User regular
So.

I have a Toshiba Satellite R15.

C200681624130665722_Toshiba_Satellite_R15_S822_Tablet_PC.jpg

It's ancient, some of the key covers have fallen off, the specs are mostly rubbish (PM 1.6 Ghz, 2 GB RAM, Intel GMA 950) and I want a new one which I can actually use to just sketch real fast, like gestural drawing fast in Photoshop without the brush engine failing to keep up. Also I'd like one of the newer sensor boards with 512 levels of pressure sensitivity instead of 256, if what I've heard is true.

I hadn't really been keeping up with what was new for laptops and the like in recent years, but you know, I've had this laptop for almost a decade, so I thought by now I'd have a lot more choice.

Maybe I'm crazy or something but it seems all tablet pcs these days are oriented towards people in suits and ties rather than people who want to have a "portable cintiq" of sorts to draw. My Toshiba may be old and slow and ugly, but it has a 14.1" screen that still goes even till today. I can't even find any other tablet other than an old Gateway one which still has screens that large.

Also, who on earth thought it would be a good idea for tablet pcs to adopt widescreen size ratios?! I'm trying to draw here, not watch movies/play games! I want to be able to have freedom in both axes, especially since now the so-called "largest" screen sizes I can find seem to be 13.3". That's amazingly puny.

So anyway, I was looking at the Modbook (Modbook Pro seems kind of retarded with the MSRP that they're looking for, even if it has a 15" Penabled screen. I mean come on 2 Cintiqs' worth?!) but it's rather expensive, and couple that with the fact that just by looking through the forums, it appears to have a host of problems that Axiotron's non-existant customer support don't seem to acknowledge, I'm pretty hesitant about dumping that much cash on one of those.

Does anyone know of a slate tablet PC that's relatively large, (like 13.3" at least, if someone can find a 14.1" or even bigger I'll <3 you forever), has a relatively recent processor (Core 2 Duo would be fine) and doesn't have a whole host of horror stories related to it? It seems like the Modbook is about the only choice I have, and I might just stick to a convertible form-factor again if that's the case with a Toshiba M780 or something.

I'm just peeved that a decade on, no matter what, I'm looking to spend around roughly the same price I did back then for my R15 (or more, if I get a modbook) for something that's worse overall with respect to my needs. While things like the iPad get so much more attention instead. =\

[/whine]

(Also, yes I have seen the comparison of 256 levels of sensitivity vs an actual Cintiq video as well. All I can say is I've used both, and there is definitely a noticeable difference. It's really apparent when you do very quick sketches and your lines come out weird on the end of the stroke.)

EDIT: Oh, and if anyone has experience in swapping the processors/mobos of old laptops with newer ones, could you share your experience too? I'm toying with that idea as well for my R15, if only to save such a beautiful screen from going to waste. I know it's not easy, and I'd appreciate all the advice I can get on that.

sonictk on

Posts

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    It might be worth also throwing this question at the conceptart.org forums - a lot of guys there I know use tablet pcs / cintiqs and might have some good advice!

    surrealitycheck on
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  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I'm also quite interested in the answer to this very question, though I also have one other mandatory add-on: MUST have Wacom digitizer.

    EDIT: ohwait all 512 touchscreen digitizers are Wacoms.

    Mortal Sky on
  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2010
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  • elliotw2elliotw2 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    That isn't at all what he wanted. That's a netbook and a slate or whatever, similar to the iPad, if you could use it as a monitor for a Macbook

    elliotw2 on
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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I know Thinkpad X-series tablets have pressure sensitive screens, but I'm not sure how sensitive and I think the newer models are widescreen.

    japan on
  • HoundxHoundx Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    That lenovo is pretty awesome but it doesn't sound like there's a way to use it as a windows slate or tablet or anything. That'd mean writing in OneNote with the keyboard in the way. That's too bad.

    Also consider tabletpcreview.com's forums to get the answer to your question. Those guys are pretty hardcore tablet users.

    Houndx on
  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2010
    elliotw2 wrote: »
    That isn't at all what he wanted. That's a netbook and a slate or whatever, similar to the iPad, if you could use it as a monitor for a Macbook

    It is running a full os when attached..


    Anyways the best tablet is 1200 lol

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  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2010
    Fujitsu LifeBooks are pretty much the only way to go as an artist, from my understanding. Everything is 12 inch though.

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  • sonictksonictk Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I'm tempted by the Fujitsu T900, if only because it's about the only 13.3" tablet left that is using the new Core i processors. It's ridiculously overpriced though. So my two so-called preferred choices at the moment happen to be the most overpriced ones. (Modbook and T900, though I am leaning towards the Modbook provided I can get some assurance of reliability) I really wish Toshiba hadn't pulled out of the big screen tablet market >_<

    I actually did go to tabletpcreview before coming here, my question got a grand total of zero replies.

    And no offense, but I just get the feeling that the people at CA aren't as knowledgeable about tablets as I'd hoped. I did look at some of the reviews their members did and they're not really comprehensive enough for me to get anything out of. I don't blame them, they're artists and just want to be able to draw without hassle. I know the feeling =\ In fact if anything I'm a little annoyed at Wacom for releasing so little information related to their Penabled line.

    Has anyone ever tried replacing their old laptop's mobo/CPU with a newer one though? Or anything like that? It's surprisingly hard to find a lot of resources related to that beyond the "voltages must match" advice, etc. my casual googling didn't turn up any full-documented tutorials which would be nice for reference, I guess.

    Oh, and seeing as I'm completely out of touch with processor technology, especially moreso for notebooks, I might as well ask...How are the low voltage Core 2 Duos? Are they worthless assuming I'm planning to work on relatively large PSDs (10000x10000px single layer benchmark, for example)? And what does Core i5/6/7/whatever introduce and compared to Core 2 Duo, is it significant?

    Thanks for the replies so far though, I guess you can tell I'm pretty desperate for ideas. :P

    EDIT: Oh, looking through the other thread, I saw a mention of the ST6012. Personally I think when something costs as much as a full-size Cintiq it ought to be better than it, and it just...isn't. I mean it's probably not aimed towards me, obviously, but really it just seems to be so gizmoed up with stuff that they then use to justify its price for people in suits and all I can think of is: what a waste. Plus it's only 12.1".

    sonictk on
  • sonictksonictk Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Mortal Sky wrote: »
    I'm also quite interested in the answer to this very question, though I also have one other mandatory add-on: MUST have Wacom digitizer.

    EDIT: ohwait all 512 touchscreen digitizers are Wacoms.
    There's surprisingly little to no info about this. Tbh I'm not really certain myself, but this post seems to be legit, though I've never been able to find any official information about it though (I really need to just go to a fujitsu shop and see if they have wacom drivers installed), but my old tablet PC, and to my knowledge all tablet PCs during that particular era (i.e. a decade ago) have 256 levels of pressure sensitivity, even after upgrading the drivers. (5.08-2a)

    I'm really hoping he's right though, because if not I will more or less be stuck with the Modbook.

    sonictk on
  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2010
    sonictk wrote: »
    I'm tempted by the Fujitsu T900, if only because it's about the only 13.3" tablet left that is using the new Core i processors. It's ridiculously overpriced though. So my two so-called preferred choices at the moment happen to be the most overpriced ones. (Modbook and T900, though I am leaning towards the Modbook provided I can get some assurance of reliability) I really wish Toshiba hadn't pulled out of the big screen tablet market >_<

    I actually did go to tabletpcreview before coming here, my question got a grand total of zero replies.

    And no offense, but I just get the feeling that the people at CA aren't as knowledgeable about tablets as I'd hoped. I did look at some of the reviews their members did and they're not really comprehensive enough for me to get anything out of. I don't blame them, they're artists and just want to be able to draw without hassle. I know the feeling =\ In fact if anything I'm a little annoyed at Wacom for releasing so little information related to their Penabled line.

    Has anyone ever tried replacing their old laptop's mobo/CPU with a newer one though? Or anything like that? It's surprisingly hard to find a lot of resources related to that beyond the "voltages must match" advice, etc. my casual googling didn't turn up any full-documented tutorials which would be nice for reference, I guess.

    Oh, and seeing as I'm completely out of touch with processor technology, especially moreso for notebooks, I might as well ask...How are the low voltage Core 2 Duos? Are they worthless assuming I'm planning to work on relatively large PSDs (10000x10000px single layer benchmark, for example)? And what does Core i5/6/7/whatever introduce and compared to Core 2 Duo, is it significant?

    Thanks for the replies so far though, I guess you can tell I'm pretty desperate for ideas. :P

    EDIT: Oh, looking through the other thread, I saw a mention of the ST6012. Personally I think when something costs as much as a full-size Cintiq it ought to be better than it, and it just...isn't. I mean it's probably not aimed towards me, obviously, but really it just seems to be so gizmoed up with stuff that they then use to justify its price for people in suits and all I can think of is: what a waste. Plus it's only 12.1".


    There is a huge difference between i7 vs core 2 duo.. One is dual core and the other at the high end has 6 cores. I think photoshop can use threading so it should make a difference with that program.

    EliteLamer on
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  • sonictksonictk Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Argh, so I was looking up information related to Core 2 Duo/i, and the T900's in particular...and all current tablet pc offerings are currently dual core, even the T900's i7-620M. Not entirely surprising, but disappointing.


    I think now it boils down to whether I can live with either the T900 or the Modbook, or whether I should wait for (yet) another generation of tablets to make their way into the market. But my R15 is so laggy

    sonictk on
  • AyulinAyulin Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Dual core is probably the way it'll be for a while, at least when it comes to mobile processors. Quad and up would just take too much power and generate too much heat.

    Ayulin on
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  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2010
    Yeah I think you are fine with dual core.

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  • zyphlarzyphlar Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I absolutely love the Lenovo X61 and other Thinkpad X Tablet models.

    They've got Wacom digitizers, they're the perfect size/weight for holding in one hand clipboard-style, and they're not made out of styrofoam bricks like some consumer-grade tablets I've seen.

    Sure it might look corporate, but it's tiny sleek and excellent at what it does. If I ever got into drawing it'd be my first purchase. The only complaints I have with previous models (X40, X41, X61) are battery life and processor speed. My first impression was "wow, it draws even better than paper!"

    Fewl Disclosyoure: I run an IT department and have about 25 of this series of tablets deployed for leasing agents to sign lease documents with, so I have extensive experience with them but am also biased. By "biased," I mean "hate anything that comes from Fujitsu Toshiba or HP/Compaq."

    zyphlar on
  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2010
    Wow 1500.00

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  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2010
    But yeah I love think pads.

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  • sonictksonictk Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    But goddamn 12.1" is so smalllllllll honestly I can't even begin to imagine drawing on that thing. Why do the models which have the (relatively) larger 13.3" screens have to be the ones from companies that overprice all their stuff argh

    sonictk on
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    For those lenovos, look for deals on em that happen all the time that reduce the price to 1300 or less

    Paladin on
    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    sonictk wrote: »
    I'm tempted by the Fujitsu T900, if only because it's about the only 13.3" tablet left that is using the new Core i processors. It's ridiculously overpriced though. So my two so-called preferred choices at the moment happen to be the most overpriced ones. (Modbook and T900, though I am leaning towards the Modbook provided I can get some assurance of reliability) I really wish Toshiba hadn't pulled out of the big screen tablet market >_<

    I actually did go to tabletpcreview before coming here, my question got a grand total of zero replies.

    And no offense, but I just get the feeling that the people at CA aren't as knowledgeable about tablets as I'd hoped. I did look at some of the reviews their members did and they're not really comprehensive enough for me to get anything out of. I don't blame them, they're artists and just want to be able to draw without hassle. I know the feeling =\ In fact if anything I'm a little annoyed at Wacom for releasing so little information related to their Penabled line.

    Has anyone ever tried replacing their old laptop's mobo/CPU with a newer one though? Or anything like that? It's surprisingly hard to find a lot of resources related to that beyond the "voltages must match" advice, etc. my casual googling didn't turn up any full-documented tutorials which would be nice for reference, I guess.

    Oh, and seeing as I'm completely out of touch with processor technology, especially moreso for notebooks, I might as well ask...How are the low voltage Core 2 Duos? Are they worthless assuming I'm planning to work on relatively large PSDs (10000x10000px single layer benchmark, for example)? And what does Core i5/6/7/whatever introduce and compared to Core 2 Duo, is it significant?

    Thanks for the replies so far though, I guess you can tell I'm pretty desperate for ideas. :P

    EDIT: Oh, looking through the other thread, I saw a mention of the ST6012. Personally I think when something costs as much as a full-size Cintiq it ought to be better than it, and it just...isn't. I mean it's probably not aimed towards me, obviously, but really it just seems to be so gizmoed up with stuff that they then use to justify its price for people in suits and all I can think of is: what a waste. Plus it's only 12.1".

    Don't buy the T900 until a few reviews come out and it's dropped in price. Looking for the lastest and greatest is a surefire way to get ripped off.

    Paladin on
    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    At any rate, it looks like tabletpcreview has failed you


    Witness the next generation of google-fu

    Paladin on
    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • sonictksonictk Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Oh I've more or less decided the T900 is definitely not for me. Especially since for a couple hundred bucks more I can get a full-size Cintiq. Problem is, the only other real alternative seems to be the Modbook and by the time I'm done with upgrading that (not to mention yet another copy of Windows 7) it'll cost around the same as the Fujitsu, and I'll only have an older processor (though a better integrated GPU) to show for it.

    And with no new HUGE SCREEN models that I know of to look forward to or anything, I don't even know if I should bother waiting for a new generation that may never come and take what's available now, or even just stick with my wild idea of replacing the processor/mobo in my current Toshiba somehow. :(

    sonictk on
  • birrubirru Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    It looks like you're in a pretty tough spot. The T900 probably won't fulfill your creative needs and the ModBook is really expensive for what you get, though my experience using one was pretty positive, though I still prefer my Cintiq 12wx for overall feel. I can say that the ModBook performance should be pretty good. I have a Mac mini powering my 12WX, and the specs are really similar, right down to the CPU class, 9400M integrated graphics, and 2.5" HD.

    I don't know, man. I think upgrading your existing tablet is impractical. Your best options may be either to (over)pay for a ModBook, or just get a conventional laptop and a wireless Intuos 4. I did that in the past with a Graphire Bluetooth and it worked well. Then maybe get the new 21UX for home? The upgraded 21UX is amazing. I played with one at PAX East and it blew me away with how responsive it was and how perfect the surface felt.

    With all the non solutions available at the moment maybe you should just build a PC and power source into a backpack and run a 12WX out of it. ;)

    If you ever find a genuine solution to your problem, let me know, because I'd also be very interested.

    birru on
  • sonictksonictk Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I do have an Intuos 4, actually. I mainly use it when learning Zbrush on my main rig, because the laptop (which can run Zbrush rather well, actually) can't really handle XSI, and I'd rather not keep switching between laptop and PC for the sake of learning. But I really prefer pen on screen instead. =\

    I was originally considering just getting a full-size Cintiq, but I do want to be able to bring whatever I buy around as a laptop, since I'm hoping to use it in school/work as well.

    Also I already find 13.3" small, a 12WX would literally be ugh for me.

    I'm actually thinking of finding a way to get my current laptop to act as a Cintiq of sorts, but I have no idea whether it's even technically possible, and even if I could get past the fact that it doesn't do VGA-out, how on earth would I get it to be recognized as a digitizer screen?

    But anyway, have you owned a Modbook? Or did you get to test it out or something? I'm most likely to get that, but hearing all the issues on the Axiotron forums is a bit disheartening, especially with regards to installing Windows 7 and getting the tablet drivers working on it.

    I'm still scrounging around though, hoping there's some obscure model out there that I've missed. No luck so far =\

    sonictk on
  • birrubirru Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    sonictk wrote: »
    Also I already find 13.3" small, a 12WX would literally be ugh for me.

    No getting around that. It's a bit small, but also the resolution is limited to 1200x800. Bear in mind the ModBook has the same resolution. You'd have to step up to the very expensive ModBook Pro.
    But anyway, have you owned a Modbook? Or did you get to test it out or something? I'm most likely to get that, but hearing all the issues on the Axiotron forums is a bit disheartening, especially with regards to installing Windows 7 and getting the tablet drivers working on it.

    I've never owned a ModBook, and it's too pricey for my limited portable art needs. I played with them several times, extensively at Macworld. I found the drawing to be smooth and responsive. I didn't play with any handwriting recognition, but the on-screen keyboard was poor. It's definitely a drawing tool. My only experience is with Mac OS on a ModBook. I'm sure that's the only supported configuration too. And with the Apps you're mentioning, it sounds like you'd have to have a working Windows installation.

    birru on
  • sonictksonictk Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Yea. There's been some users who've been reporting everything works fine with Win 7, and there's some who report that the Wacom drivers are all fucked up, even if they use the Penabled ones for most Tablet PCs. It's not clear whether their installs are via Bootcamp or really clean Win 7 installs, so I'm still trying to get more info on that. If I do get one it'll probably be via my local distributor, but even he's not optimistic about being able to find a "new" old Macbook for conversion. Sigh.

    The Modbook Pro looks nice, but I think it's out of the question (2 Cintiqs 21UX's worth I mean seriously who are you kidding) for now. A 15" slate would be such a good size though...

    I don't mind the screen having a lower DPI, though, I mean right now I'm at 1024x768 on the 14" and it's reasonable. Not a fan of teeny-weeny icons when I need to click them. :P

    Nice to hear the experience with the Modbook though. I have a question about its surface though, is it super smooth (e.g. Toshiba, Fujitsu) or does it have a friction surface? (Like the Intuos4, basically) Or somewhere in-between?

    sonictk on
  • birrubirru Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    sonictk wrote: »
    Yea. There's been some users who've been reporting everything works fine with Win 7, and there's some who report that the Wacom drivers are all fucked up, even if they use the Penabled ones for most Tablet PCs. It's not clear whether their installs are via Bootcamp or really clean Win 7 installs, so I'm still trying to get more info on that. If I do get one it'll probably be via my local distributor, but even he's not optimistic about being able to find a "new" old Macbook for conversion. Sigh.

    From what I've seen, the available Penabled drivers are still from 2008. So I'm guessing Wacom expects OEM licensees to make their own drivers? Also, Boot Camp is the most orthodox way to install Windows natively. It allows you to make a partition where you can install Windows (XP, 7). Once the install is complete you then use the Snow Leopard DVD to install Apple-created software to enable a lot of the native features, such as video, wireless, trackpad, ambient light sensor, and other drivers.
    The Modbook Pro looks nice, but I think it's out of the question (2 Cintiqs 21UX's worth I mean seriously who are you kidding) for now. A 15" slate would be such a good size though...

    I don't mind the screen having a lower DPI, though, I mean right now I'm at 1024x768 on the 14" and it's reasonable. Not a fan of teeny-weeny icons when I need to click them. :P

    Nice to hear the experience with the Modbook though. I have a question about its surface though, is it super smooth (e.g. Toshiba, Fujitsu) or does it have a friction surface? (Like the Intuos4, basically) Or somewhere in-between?

    The Pro is waaay overpriced, but Axiotron does mention having Windows 7 preinstalled at the bottom of their ModBook Pro page. Perhaps drop them a line and ask if that's something they'll offer on the standard ModBook.

    It's been ages since I've used a Toshiba or Fujitsu tablet, but I recall the ModBook surface being on the smoother side, sort of similar to my Cintiq 12WX. There wasn't a lot of friction, but it wasn't slick either.

    birru on
  • sonictksonictk Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    From what I've seen, the available Penabled drivers are still from 2008. So I'm guessing Wacom expects OEM licensees to make their own drivers?
    For the Modbook, supposedly. AFAIK Axiotron had to come up with their own version of the Penabled drivers for it. Which may/may not still be suffering from RF problems (cursor jumping to the main menu problem) from the battery area, since there are reports of people being able to fix it by just adding shielding.
    Boot Camp is the most orthodox way to install Windows natively. It allows you to make a partition where you can install Windows (XP, 7). Once the install is complete you then use the Snow Leopard DVD to install Apple-created software to enable a lot of the native features, such as video, wireless, trackpad, ambient light sensor, and other drivers.
    Honestly though I don't see myself using Snow Leopard in its current incarnation as it is, so I'd opt for the clean install of Win 7. But again, I need to try and find more information on this and what other issues I can expect to face when doing this. And as long as I get the pressure sensitivity working, I don't really mind losing webcams, light sensors or any other frivolous stuff.
    It's been ages since I've used a Toshiba or Fujitsu tablet, but I recall the ModBook surface being on the smoother side, sort of similar to my Cintiq 12WX. There wasn't a lot of friction, but it wasn't slick either.
    That's a minor disappointment, I guess. I was hoping Chemically strengthened Axiotron® ForceGlass™ with anti-reflective coating and etched paper-emulating surface actually meant something good. :P

    sonictk on
  • birrubirru Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    sonictk wrote: »
    Honestly though I don't see myself using Snow Leopard in its current incarnation as it is, so I'd opt for the clean install of Win 7. But again, I need to try and find more information on this and what other issues I can expect to face when doing this. And as long as I get the pressure sensitivity working, I don't really mind losing webcams, light sensors or any other frivolous stuff.

    Think of Snow Leopard as a utility to install Windows 7 directly. It's not emulation or virtualization. But it makes installing Windows a lot easier and provides drivers for Apple's components in Windows.
    That's a minor disappointment, I guess. I was hoping Chemically strengthened Axiotron® ForceGlass™ with anti-reflective coating and etched paper-emulating surface actually meant something good. :P

    I think they improved the coating since I last used a ModBook. It may be better now. I mean, that description sounds a lot like the new glass on the Cintiq 21UX, which feels great. The problem with all this is it's so important to be able to feel this stuff in person. I've never even seen a ModBook outside of an Axiotron booth. Do you even have a place to demo a ModBook in your area?

    birru on
  • sonictksonictk Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    my inbox wrote:
    We are not working with any retailer and our last demo units was sold.
    I should really just take a trip to the local office here and see if they're kidding. I mean, come on, not even one test model or anything?

    sonictk on
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