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South Korea invokes gaming curfew for children.

Page-Page- Registered User regular
edited April 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
BBC article.
South Korean children face gaming curfew

Online gaming is hugely popular in South Korea.

The South Korean government is introducing policies aimed at curbing the amount of time children spend playing online games.

The first involves barring online gaming access to young people of school age between 12am (midnight) and 8am.

The other policy suggests slowing down people's internet connections after they have been logged on to certain games for a long period of time.

The Culture Ministry is calling on games providers to implement the plans.

It is asking the companies to monitor the national identity numbers of their players, which includes the age of the individual.

Parents can also choose to be notified if their identity number is used online.

"The policy provides a way for parents to supervise their children's game playing," Lee Young-ah from the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism told Reuters.

The Korea Herald reports that Barameui Nara, Maple Story and Mabinogi, three popular virtual worlds, will introduce the blackout later this year.

Meanwhile role playing games "Dungeon and Fighter" and "Dragon Nest" will pilot the connection slowing scheme.

A total of 19 role playing games will eventually be included - a huge proportion of the online gaming market in the country.

South Korea has sophisticated high speed broadband connections and online gaming is enormously popular.

But there has been growing concern over the amount of time its citizens spend in virtual worlds and playing online games.

A couple whose baby daughter starved while they spent up to 12 hours a day in internet cafes raising a virtual child online have made headlines around the world.

They were charged with negligent homicide and are due to be sentenced on 16 April.

Online gaming is a big problem in South Korea, and apparently in some other Asian countries as well. But specifically South Korea. And they're acknowledging it and trying to do something about it. I can only speak from my very specific and very strange experience with MMOs, which I do not play myself, and net cafes. And that experience is that when combined they can ruin lives.

It may seem odd that the South Korean government is relying on the companies themselves to police their players, but MMOs don't work quite the same way there as they do in the EU and North America. Asian MMOs are mostly run on cash shops, and the cash shops actually cater better to off-and-on players, selling items that will give you temporary power or exp boosts. So if you can limit a player's gaming time then it's just more reason for them to buy cash shops items that will help them make up for the loss.

I know at least on of the games in the article, Dungeon and Fighter, has a built in stamina system already, which prevents you from entering dungeons more than a set amount each day (though obviously the cash shop will let you get around this), and I've seen that done in at least one more Korean MMO. So obviously the developers know what's going on.

The relevance for the rest of the world is that, although not as severe as in South Korea, MMOs do rule some people's lives. Will other governments have to step in on this, or will companies head this warning call and accept some social responsibility for games that they specifically design to be as addictive as possible?

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  • ArchonexArchonex Registered User
    edited April 2010
    Games are not inherently harmful. People with personalities prone to addiction, or just people who can't concentrate on their own lives for whatever reason are the "problem", and that's a personal choice. The game isn't administering an addictive narcotic substance and forcing you to play.


    The curfew is stupid. How in the hell are they going to enforce access to games? All it'd take is lying about the age of the player when you sign up, or having a parent pay for it (Which most children will do anyways.).


    Nevermind that i'm sure someone industrious enough will find a way around this "blackout" they're proposing. It seems kind of easy to get around.

  • TracerBulletTracerBullet Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I highly doubt that other countries will jump upon this and implement something similar, or, at least I highly doubt the USA and many European countries will leap to implement something like this.

    But I really have to applaud South Korea, they identified a problem, and figured out a solution for it. Honestly, outside of a weekend, a school-kid really has no business playing video games between midnight and 8am, hell, it's unhealthy.

    When you consider a pubescent teen's body need's on average 9.5 hours of sleep a day, and melatonin production usually begins around 11pm, signaling bed-time anyway, this policy really does look like a good thing.

    Heck, one can even make the argument that a policy like this, on a long enough timeline, will end up making South Korea a more prominent player in the global economy, as play time goes down it isn't a stretch to say their education system will begin to become more successful.

    I gotta say, I agree with S. Korea's stance on the issue.

    Spoiler:
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    Archonex wrote: »
    Games are not inherently harmful. People with personalities prone to addiction, or just people who can't concentrate on their own lives for whatever reason are the "problem", and that's a personal choice.

    By that logic something is wrong with South Korea - a large percentage of the youth must have these "personalities prone to addiction".

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Archonex wrote: »
    Games are not inherently harmful. People with personalities prone to addiction, or just people who can't concentrate on their own lives for whatever reason are the "problem", and that's a personal choice. The game isn't administering an addictive narcotic substance and forcing you to play.


    The curfew is stupid. How in the hell are they going to enforce access to games? All it'd take is lying about the age of the player when you sign up, or having a parent pay for it (Which most children will do anyways.).


    Nevermind that i'm sure someone industrious enough will find a way around this "blackout" they're proposing. It seems kind of easy to get around.

    From my little experience playing Korean games most of them require a Citizen ID which is akin to a Social security number to play.

    So enforcing it isn't all that difficult.

    I don't think this is a bad idea though it doesn't address the actual problem just a symptom of it. These kids will turn to other addictive behaviors.

  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    I don't think this is a bad idea though it doesn't address the actual problem just a symptom of it. These kids will turn to other addictive behaviors.

    Such as what?

    They are right now playing games because playing games is ridiculously cheap with the current Internet infrastructure of the country.

    It's not like once the government starts regulating games the kids will turn to drugs or something.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    like smoking


    seriously 3 out of every 4 people there smoke

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    "Hey guys since we can't play games between 12am and 8am we will now spend that time smoking."

    Really?

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • krushkrush Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    so does this mean I'll actually be able to win a game of Starcraft online???

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    "Hey guys since we can't play games between 12am and 8am we will now spend that time smoking."

    Really?

    yes


    I'm not trying to make a point just everyone smokes a whole ton in korea

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I was reading yesterday how pro-gamers in South Korea can be excused from mandatory military service if they represent the military when they compete. I imagine it's like Army or Navy football except the football is switched with StarCraft. And they don't go through basic training. And they get air conditioning while they play.

    Angryspider2_zps663851d1.jpg
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    there is a sports channel in south korea


    it is the starcraft sports channel


    it is the major sports channel; they show it on all the subways

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • HenroidHenroid Gibberish Cold white sand!Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    That connection slowdown sounds criminal. The midnight to 8am barring-of-playing is less inconvenient (it's kids anyway). But the whole idea is still lame.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit." - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Not just Starcraft. They show a lot of Tekken, and a spattering of other games as well.

    And yes, Korean pro gamers can join the Korean Air Force team during their mandatory service period (Air Force Aces), but they still don't get to play as much as a normal pro gamer and the Aces lose most of their matches. They've got like 1 or 2 players of note, and they're complete wildcards. Still, it's pretty good propaganda for the Korean defence forces.

    (Mostly) Competitive Gaming Blog Updated April 14th. Dark Souls Diaries - Day 18
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  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    Well, if companies are making their games deliberately addictive then the government has a responsibility to go in and regulate the industry.

    Just like they do with, you know, addictive substances.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    It's sort of crazy that kids playing games from 12am to 8am is such an epidemic there that it actually needs government regulation.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    'we got hella people, they got helicopters'
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    Dyscord wrote: »
    It's sort of crazy that kids playing games from 12am to 8am is such an epidemic there that it actually needs government regulation.

    Exactly. We may not understand this since we live in a vastly different culture, but even reading articles about S. Korea makes me go D: multiple times in every paragraph.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    kids staying out till 4am playing ball or whatever in the streets is more of an epidemic



    go to bed on time, South Korea!

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • programjunkieprogramjunkie Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Well, if companies are making their games deliberately addictive then the government has a responsibility to go in and regulate the industry.

    Just like they do with, you know, addictive substances.

    Hyperbole much?

    But in any case, this sounds like more of a case of addressing symptoms and not causes. If different cultures have different reactions, the product isn't inherently XYZ (addictive, whatever).

  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    Well, if companies are making their games deliberately addictive then the government has a responsibility to go in and regulate the industry.

    Just like they do with, you know, addictive substances.

    Hyperbole much?

    But in any case, this sounds like more of a case of addressing symptoms and not causes. If different cultures have different reactions, the product isn't inherently XYZ (addictive, whatever).

    Why is it hyperbole?

    Do you really not understand why certain types of video games - such as those that are based on subscription models - are designed to be as addicting as possible?

    Hell, the entire reward mechanisms for typical "quests" (bring me 10 bear asses) is a textbook case of how reward pathways can be stimulated regularly to cause behaviors to become habits through repetition.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Archonex wrote: »
    Games are not inherently harmful. People with personalities prone to addiction, or just people who can't concentrate on their own lives for whatever reason are the "problem", and that's a personal choice. The game isn't administering an addictive narcotic substance and forcing you to play.

    Let's get this shit out of the way right now.
    But in any case, this sounds like more of a case of addressing symptoms and not causes. If different cultures have different reactions, the product isn't inherently XYZ (addictive, whatever).

    [citation needed]

    That's incredibly simplistic thinking.

    1) Addiction is a feedback loop, so addressing the symptoms does address the cause.
    2) Cultural factors can exaggerate or mitigate the effects of biology. This shouldn't be a newsflash to anybody.
    3) What does "inherently addictive" mean? Addiction involves the interaction of a human with something else; a drug, a slot machine, a game, another human's naughty bits. You can't take an intellectual scalpel and excise the "inherent" addictive properties of anything - a pile of cocaine without a brain to affect isn't any more "addictive" than a wavelength of light as the color "blue" without an animal retina to see it. Addiction has to be considered within a human context or else it's a meaningless concept.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • programjunkieprogramjunkie Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Well, if companies are making their games deliberately addictive then the government has a responsibility to go in and regulate the industry.

    Just like they do with, you know, addictive substances.

    Hyperbole much?

    But in any case, this sounds like more of a case of addressing symptoms and not causes. If different cultures have different reactions, the product isn't inherently XYZ (addictive, whatever).

    Why is it hyperbole?

    Do you really not understand why certain types of video games - such as those that are based on subscription models - are designed to be as addicting as possible?

    Hell, the entire reward mechanisms for typical "quests" (bring me 10 bear asses) is a textbook case of how reward pathways can be stimulated regularly to cause behaviors to become habits through repetition.

    I'm not going to disagree it is more addicting than sewing, but it's not addicting in the same way that most drugs are.

  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    You should read Feral's link.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I only just breezed through Feral's article, but comparing game addiction to gambling addiction seems like a decent basis for study.

  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I'm not going to disagree it is more addicting than sewing, but it's not addicting in the same way that most drugs are.

    Cocaine causes a short-lived surge of available dopamine in the limbic system.
    Gambling causes a short-lived surge of available dopamine in the limbic system.
    Video games causes a short-lived surge of available dopamine in the limbic system.

    Do you see a pattern here?

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • programjunkieprogramjunkie Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Feral wrote: »
    But in any case, this sounds like more of a case of addressing symptoms and not causes. If different cultures have different reactions, the product isn't inherently XYZ (addictive, whatever).

    [citation needed]

    That's incredibly simplistic thinking.

    1) Addiction is a feedback loop, so addressing the symptoms does address the cause.
    2) Cultural factors can exaggerate or mitigate the effects of biology. This shouldn't be a newsflash to anybody.
    3) What does "inherently addictive" mean? Addiction involves the interaction of a human with something else; a drug, a slot machine, a game, another human's naughty bits. You can't take an intellectual scalpel and excise the "inherent" addictive properties of anything - a pile of cocaine without a brain to affect isn't any more "addictive" than a wavelength of light as the color "blue" without an animal retina to see it. Addiction has to be considered within a human context or else it's a meaningless concept.

    Well, to perhaps further expand my meaning, if something causes a major problem in a culture and a minor to no problem in another, there is likely a defect in said culture which causes said problem, and it's generally better to address that root cause than to regulate the symptoms, esp. when said regulations step on many toes that have no issues (slightly less of an issue with minors, but what about a hypothetical student who has 30 minutes of downtime before school in the morning after all appropriate preparations and studying and wants to hop on?).
    Feral wrote: »
    I'm not going to disagree it is more addicting than sewing, but it's not addicting in the same way that most drugs are.

    Cocaine causes a short-lived surge of available dopamine in the limbic system.
    Gambling causes a short-lived surge of available dopamine in the limbic system.
    Video games causes a short-lived surge of available dopamine in the limbic system.

    Do you see a pattern here?

    And does stopping video games cause a potentially highly dangerous withdrawal effect, like say, alcohol's DT?

  • CorlisCorlis Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Out of curiosity, what's the difference between South Korea and the West that causes video game addiction to be more of a problem over there than here? Are the games themselves set up differently, or is there some sort of cultural or business difference? Obviously people in America get addicted to games too, but we don't hear about serious movements to ban them at night time.

    But I don't mind, as long as there's a bed beneath the stars that shine,
    I'll be fine, just give me a minute, a man's got a limit, I can't get a life if my heart's not in it.
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    Corlis wrote: »
    Out of curiosity, what's the difference between South Korea and the West that causes video game addiction to be more of a problem over there than here? Are the games themselves set up differently, or is there some sort of cultural or business difference? Obviously people in America get addicted to games too, but we don't hear about serious movements to ban them at night time.

    Probably because gaming is not a national sport here, and gamers aren't treated like celebrities.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    also there's not an internet cafe and arcade on every corner

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Couldn't say for sure, but two main difference I see are net cafes never died and a market flooded with "free" MMOs, often with a direct tie in to the net cafes.

    Net cafes are a surprisingly horrible environments. I've been around with them, and even in my own city AFTER the boom and bust of the early 2000s they're corrosive. People live in them, hidden from the world. Sometimes their own families don't know where they are or what they're up to. In Koreatown it was even worse; they didn't earn the nickname Korean dungeons only for how poorly lit most of them are.

    I'm sure there are some better articles on that subject, but I'd have to do some digging to find them.

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  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Exactly. We may not understand this since we live in a vastly different culture, but even reading articles about S. Korea makes me go multiple times in every paragraph.

    Honestly the more I hear about South Korea the more awesome it sounds. The place sounds like a nation of gamer nerds, having the general populace being into Starcraft rather than say, Football, is just too damn cool.

    We, as gamers in the US, get so much shit and there it's normal. I kinda want to take a trip out there now.

  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    And does stopping video games cause a potentially highly dangerous withdrawal effect, like say, alcohol's DT?

    This is far less relevant than it sounds.

    Cocaine is addictive but does not cause serious somatic withdrawal symptoms.
    Antiseizure medications (like Zonegran) cause serious somatic withdrawal symptoms, but are not addictive.
    Most alcoholics are addicted for years before DT becomes an issue.
    Consequently, the presence or lack thereof of DT or any similar somatic withdrawal symptom is not a criterion for the addictiveness of a drug.
    Well, to perhaps further expand my meaning, if something causes a major problem in a culture and a minor to no problem in another, there is likely a defect in said culture which causes said problem

    Khat addiction is a problem in the middle east, but not in the US. Does that mean that khat is not addictive? Meth addiction is a much huger problem in the United States than in, say, the British Isles. Does that mean that meth is not addictive?
    and it's generally better to address that root cause than to regulate the symptoms, esp. when said regulations step on many toes that have no issues (slightly less of an issue with minors, but what about a hypothetical student who has 30 minutes of downtime before school in the morning after all appropriate preparations and studying and wants to hop on?).

    Hey, the culture having a problem is the culture addressing the problem. Nobody is afraid that South Korea is going to reach across the globe and smack WoW players in the US, are they?

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited April 2010
    Feral wrote: »
    Hey, the culture having a problem is the culture addressing the problem. Nobody is afraid that South Korea is going to reach across the globe and smack WoW players in the US, are they?

    I'm almost positive that at some point someone will suggest that it sets a dangerous precedent that censor-happy types in the US might try to copy. To which my reply would be that I don't see why the Koreans have an obligation to worry about what we might do.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I'm fine with this. It would be nice if they figured out what was causing this, and tried to massage the population's social behavior out of doing it, but when treating a cause you need to also treat the symptom so that the victim will survive long enough to be cured.

    Who knows, maybe they'll learn something about non-drug addiction that we can use to deal with some of the problems in the States.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Feral wrote: »
    Archonex wrote: »
    Games are not inherently harmful. People with personalities prone to addiction, or just people who can't concentrate on their own lives for whatever reason are the "problem", and that's a personal choice. The game isn't administering an addictive narcotic substance and forcing you to play.

    Let's get this shit out of the way right now.
    But in any case, this sounds like more of a case of addressing symptoms and not causes. If different cultures have different reactions, the product isn't inherently XYZ (addictive, whatever).

    [citation needed]

    That's incredibly simplistic thinking.

    1) Addiction is a feedback loop, so addressing the symptoms does address the cause.
    2) Cultural factors can exaggerate or mitigate the effects of biology. This shouldn't be a newsflash to anybody.
    3) What does "inherently addictive" mean? Addiction involves the interaction of a human with something else; a drug, a slot machine, a game, another human's naughty bits. You can't take an intellectual scalpel and excise the "inherent" addictive properties of anything - a pile of cocaine without a brain to affect isn't any more "addictive" than a wavelength of light as the color "blue" without an animal retina to see it. Addiction has to be considered within a human context or else it's a meaningless concept.


    I don't really understand, if it's so cut and dry, why doesn't everyone, or even a majority of people like MMO style games? Even people who play MMOs, most of the wow gamers aren't even level 80 - if people are simply robots responding to the stimuli of dopamine why is that?

    Shouldn't everyone be max level and farming all the time who plays games? Why are so many gamers turned off by entire genres?

    XBLIVE: Biggestoverride
    League of Legends: override367
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I don't really understand, if it's so cut and dry, why doesn't everyone, or even a majority of people like MMO style games? Even people who play MMOs, most of the wow gamers aren't even level 80 - if people are simply robots responding to the stimuli of dopamine why is that?

    Shouldn't everyone be max level and farming all the time who plays games? Why are so many gamers turned off by entire genres?
    You can say the same thing for most actual drugs.

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    I don't really understand, if it's so cut and dry, why doesn't everyone, or even a majority of people like MMO style games? Even people who play MMOs, most of the wow gamers aren't even level 80 - if people are simply robots responding to the stimuli of dopamine why is that?

    Shouldn't everyone be max level and farming all the time who plays games? Why are so many gamers turned off by entire genres?
    You can say the same thing for most actual drugs.

    Drugs are actually fun though. Health consequences aside, I can't say I'd ever rather play WoW for a few hours every year on my birthday instead of do mushrooms.

    I really think there's something of a social aspect that needs looking into, what other things do they do in Korea for fun? Do parents there not do what they do here and tell the kid to turn off the fucking TV and go outside?

    My mom would rent me a console, or give me money and buy pizza, or go to Reno and take me with, giving me a couple hundred bucks to just eat shitty food and play games for 72 hours solid. But she'd also make me go the hell outside and do stuff with fellow human type creatures and interact with them face to face a lot of the time too.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Drugs are actually fun though.
    This post not brought to you by huffing paint and many other addictive substances that only make you feel numb.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    I really think there's something of a social aspect that needs looking into, what other things do they do in Korea for fun? Do parents there not do what they do here and tell the kid to turn off the fucking TV and go outside?

    My mom would rent me a console, or give me money and buy pizza, or go to Reno and take me with, giving me a couple hundred bucks to just eat shitty food and play games for 72 hours solid. But she'd also make me go the hell outside and do stuff with fellow human type creatures and interact with them face to face a lot of the time too.

    A lot of families, here as well, do not have a living situation which gives them much control over how their children spend their free time.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Feral wrote: »
    Archonex wrote: »
    Games are not inherently harmful. People with personalities prone to addiction, or just people who can't concentrate on their own lives for whatever reason are the "problem", and that's a personal choice. The game isn't administering an addictive narcotic substance and forcing you to play.

    Let's get this shit out of the way right now.
    But in any case, this sounds like more of a case of addressing symptoms and not causes. If different cultures have different reactions, the product isn't inherently XYZ (addictive, whatever).

    [citation needed]

    That's incredibly simplistic thinking.

    1) Addiction is a feedback loop, so addressing the symptoms does address the cause.
    2) Cultural factors can exaggerate or mitigate the effects of biology. This shouldn't be a newsflash to anybody.
    3) What does "inherently addictive" mean? Addiction involves the interaction of a human with something else; a drug, a slot machine, a game, another human's naughty bits. You can't take an intellectual scalpel and excise the "inherent" addictive properties of anything - a pile of cocaine without a brain to affect isn't any more "addictive" than a wavelength of light as the color "blue" without an animal retina to see it. Addiction has to be considered within a human context or else it's a meaningless concept.


    I don't really understand, if it's so cut and dry, why doesn't everyone, or even a majority of people like MMO style games? Even people who play MMOs, most of the wow gamers aren't even level 80 - if people are simply robots responding to the stimuli of dopamine why is that?

    Shouldn't everyone be max level and farming all the time who plays games? Why are so many gamers turned off by entire genres?

    You seem to think that I'm committing the same false dichotomy as everybody else.

    The false dichotomy I'm referring to is the one implied by posts like this: "Games are not inherently harmful. People with personalities prone to addiction, or just people who can't concentrate on their own lives for whatever reason are the "problem", and that's a personal choice. The game isn't administering an addictive narcotic substance and forcing you to play."

    False dichotomy: either activity X is addictive, or person Y is prone to addiction. 'It's not the game, it's the people!'

    It doesn't work that way. Some activities are more addictive than others. Also, some people are more prone to addiction than others. These are not mutually incompatible statements, and in fact any discussion of addiction that tries to eliminate either the characteristics of the addicted brain or the characteristics of the addictive activity is doomed to incoherence.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • Pi-r8Pi-r8 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Exactly. We may not understand this since we live in a vastly different culture, but even reading articles about S. Korea makes me go multiple times in every paragraph.

    Honestly the more I hear about South Korea the more awesome it sounds. The place sounds like a nation of gamer nerds, having the general populace being into Starcraft rather than say, Football, is just too damn cool.

    We, as gamers in the US, get so much shit and there it's normal. I kinda want to take a trip out there now.

    korea is awesome but these kinds of articles really exaggerate how big gaming is there. It's still not as popular as real sports, and the progaming is really a niche thing.

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