Reznik and Preacher, I'm not sure if I agree with you guys. The show would be significantly better without pandering to the fandom, but the fandom is probably what keeps it on the air. From what I understand (I have a friend who is pretty deeply engrained in it), the show has several conventions a year where the property rakes in considerable money. They charge for fan interaction events (i.e. pay a few hundred dollars to hang out with the cast for an hour). Then they sell autographs for $50+, etc. etc.
Given that the ratings of the show aren't great, it's possible that this fan capital is what keeps everything afloat. Misha Collins is probably a huge draw.
I've been to the conventions. That money is going to Creation (the people who run them) and the actors. No way the network/studio is seeing significant dough from that. If Warner Bros/CW wanted to make more money off SPN, they could. But their merch has always been shit. Shitty posters, shitty t-shirts, and maybe some shitty mugs. It's only very, very recently that they've actually been putting any effort at all into merchandising.
As far as fandom and viewership goes... Supernatural's ratings are generally around 2 million per episode, +/- a few hundred thousand, just in the US. That doesn't factor in the international stuff - it's popular enough for them to have multiple conventions in the UK, Rome, Brazil, etc. so it's raking in the viewers overseas. Not to mention DVD/Blu-ray sales and whatever they get from Netflix.
Online fandom numbers aren't anywhere near that. Supernatural is not a huge show, but it is not a tiny, super niche show either. It has found just the right spot on the CW, and has never really been in danger of being cancelled on that network. It would honestly take the network tanking for Supernatural to get cancelled. It has always been top or within the top 3 most viewed shows on the CW.
In the fandom, the loudest folks on tumblr/livejournal/twitter/whatever number in the thousands. Like, I would be super generous if I said 100 thousand. If they all disappeared the ratings wouldn't take a hit compared to the people who are discovering the show on Netflix and catching up with it live.
The Supernatural fandom has a very, very inflated sense of their own importance because of the way the writers pander to them and interact with them on twitter.
My issue with the pandering is that their fan fiction style writing is what made me stop enjoying the show and tune out. Being risk averse already lost me as a viewer.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
My issue with the pandering is that their fan fiction style writing is what made me stop enjoying the show and tune out. Being risk averse already lost me as a viewer.
Same here. Despite more or less enjoying season 6 and some parts of 7, I'm now at the point where I actively encourage people to stop at season 5.
My issue with the pandering is that their fan fiction style writing is what made me stop enjoying the show and tune out. Being risk averse already lost me as a viewer.
Same here. Despite more or less enjoying season 6 and some parts of 7, I'm now at the point where I actively encourage people to stop at season 5.
Part of the reason I didn't hate 8 as much as others is, IIRC correctly, there was much less angst. Like one episode and then it was over, granted all that "I don't know if I can trust you " bs got transferred onto Bobby Ghost.
Basically the brothers always need someone not to trust and act all highschool drama about. In regards to this, they are mostly monogamous.
sure this has been said before. probably with Crowley as a roommate or some such
I still think they missed out on having a great webseries at the start of this season chronicling what Crowley was doing to occupy himself in the trunk of the Impala.
Early series Supernatural would have been all over that like they were with GhostFacers.
My issue with the pandering is that their fan fiction style writing is what made me stop enjoying the show and tune out. Being risk averse already lost me as a viewer.
Same here. Despite more or less enjoying season 6 and some parts of 7, I'm now at the point where I actively encourage people to stop at season 5.
Part of the reason I didn't hate 8 as much as others is, IIRC correctly, there was much less angst. Like one episode and then it was over, granted all that "I don't know if I can trust you " bs got transferred onto Bobby Ghost.
Basically the brothers always need someone not to trust and act all highschool drama about. In regards to this, they are mostly monogamous.
Castiel getting a bit of action now and then.
Ghost Bobby was season 7.
8 was pretty angsty still.
There was the stupid bullshit about Sam not looking for Dean (which is still the most fucking out of character thing, I don't know how Carver thought that shit was a good idea, and they didn't even try to justify it)
There was Sam not trusting Dean re: Benny
There was Cas being mind controlled by Naomi
Then there was all that crap with Sam killing himself doing the trials, hiding it from Dean, and then Dean convincing him to not go through with it because what the fuck ever, making all the deaths and sacrifices up to that point utterly pointless
Short preview clip from Comic Con. Tonally, looks great. No idea if the writers will actually remember any of their continuity and make it super cool, but
Every season looks like it'll start strong (I guess except for 6). Call me halfway through once the writers have squandered any hype established by the opener.
Castiel notices Dean is now a Demon no more than 5 episodes in, he's cured a few episodes later, and the rest of the season revolves around him being mad at Sam for not noticing he was a Demon.
I think that sounds about right, pretty sure that it's Dean's turn to feel betrayed by Sam.
Demon Dean
Is, he's Dean, but a demon now. Is he 'possessing' his own body? As in, can he smoke out or is he trapped? Is his body part of being a demon?
Was Cain the first demon? Perhaps because Dean is now like Cain, they're a different kind of demon?
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The thing that never made sense to me about heaven is angels walking around there looking like people. If they're in heaven, why would they look like their vessels and not their true forms? And why would the areas of heaven seen ONLY by angels (so, not chilling in a human's section of heaven) look like anything we recognize?
All right, so maybe after an angel takes a vessel, they are vessel-ized in heaven until they leave the vessel. But all the angels who fell looked like people. So did literally EVERY angel between 2008 and 2014 suddenly take a vessel? But that doesn't make sense either, since Gadreel went and got his vessel AFTER everyone fell.
Demon Dean
Is, he's Dean, but a demon now. Is he 'possessing' his own body? As in, can he smoke out or is he trapped? Is his body part of being a demon?
Was Cain the first demon? Perhaps because Dean is now like Cain, they're a different kind of demon?
Is that... Is that fuckin' Dean Cain?
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Crowley turned it into a neverending lineup in like season 6, which was a dumb joke. And then the dungeon hallway in season 8 was like... supposed to be scary, I guess?
Either way, the point of hell is to corrupt souls into demons, and both of those remodels make hell incredibly inefficient at that task.
It just takes all the fear and awe and horror out of a place that it literally supposed to be the worst place in the entire universe. So whoever decided to pull that shit is a fuckwad.
Crowley turned it into a neverending lineup in like season 6, which was a dumb joke. And then the dungeon hallway in season 8 was like... supposed to be scary, I guess?
Either way, the point of hell is to corrupt souls into demons, and both of those remodels make hell incredibly inefficient at that task.
It just takes all the fear and awe and horror out of a place that it literally supposed to be the worst place in the entire universe. So whoever decided to pull that shit is a fuckwad.
And right here we have one the problem with the last few seasons. Somewhere along the line they started taking their dumb jokes (which have always been a great part of the show IMO) and starting actually taking them seriously. They make them cannon for some reason all while tearing apart their already established lore.
I really need to stop watching reruns of the first 5 seasons. It's just making me angry at this point.
The weird, telling bits are just about past seasons though and really highlight a lot of the inconsistencies that are starting to pile up.
A big deal last season was when Sam claimed that he would never go to as extreme lengths to save Dean as Dean had gone to to save Sam. But now, we're going to see Sam going to crazy lengths to find and save demon Dean. We asked Padalecki about this contradiction, and he said Sam was lying to Dean "because he was hurt," and "you always hurt the ones you're closest to."
So, okay, Sam was just lying that time. I guess that's an acceptable interpretation but the show itself wasn't really doing much with that idea. But whatever.
But the time when Dean was in purgatory and Sam didn't look for him because he got a girlfriend and dog "was strange," added Padalecki.
Hmm.
Padalecki said it's been a lot of hard work coming up with new versions of Sam — the soulless version, the angel version — and it's nice that Dean is dealing with that this time around
If you have such a long list of "different versions" of characters that you and the other actor have to keep coming up with, maybe stop doing that as the plot every season!
You know what, I want them to have sam and dean fuck at some point this season. Not because I'm into gay porn or incest, but because I'm tired of them doing this stupid pseudo romance thing where they are the only thing that really matters to each other.
You know what, I want them to have sam and dean fuck at some point this season. Not because I'm into gay porn or incest, but because I'm tired of them doing this stupid pseudo romance thing where they are the only thing that really matters to each other.
Honestly cant tell if they are brothers or married people having constant spats.
My issue with the pandering is that their fan fiction style writing is what made me stop enjoying the show and tune out. Being risk averse already lost me as a viewer.
Same here. Despite more or less enjoying season 6 and some parts of 7, I'm now at the point where I actively encourage people to stop at season 5.
Part of the reason I didn't hate 8 as much as others is, IIRC correctly, there was much less angst. Like one episode and then it was over, granted all that "I don't know if I can trust you " bs got transferred onto Bobby Ghost.
Basically the brothers always need someone not to trust and act all highschool drama about. In regards to this, they are mostly monogamous.
Castiel getting a bit of action now and then.
Ghost Bobby was season 7.
yeah I meant season 7. They're all blending together for me at this point.
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited August 2014
I'm on Season 7, 21, and I took a break for a while when I was in the middle of season 6 because the villains were ehhh.
I have a problem though.
I am sick of Sam and Dean's fucking bullshit!
They treat Castiel like shit! Castiel, who has helped them on every occasion. Castiel, who almost never asks for anything in return. Castiel,
who even when he lost his powers, he did all he could to help. Castiel, who even in his madness when he became Godstiel, he chose not to smite them even though he was a giant dick at the time.
It's like they're all about "What have you done for me lately" and when they have done nothing for Cass, they still demand he helps them.
Castiel who threatened to throw Dean back into hell. Castiel who let Sam out of the panic room before he could finish detoxing from demon blood so that the apocalypse would start. Castiel who beat the shit out of Dean in an alleyway. Castiel who broke the wall in Sam's mind which could have killed him or rendered him permanently insane when all he had to do was teleport them somewhere else. Castiel who declared himself god and went on a murder spree.
I wouldn't say Sam treats Cas like crap. Every time Cas has completely fucked up, Sam is the one who forgives him. Dean insults Cas, Sam's the one going 'hey man lay off'. Dean yells at Cas to use his powers, Sam's the one going 'no man, look at him, he's fried'.
It's always fucking boggled my mind that the show tries to sell a friendship with Dean and Cas when Dean treats him like a tool and belittles him at every turn, and Sam treats him like a person. And don't say 'profound bond' - Cas rescued Dean from hell on orders. Cas rescued Sam from hell of his own free will.
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Given that the ratings of the show aren't great, it's possible that this fan capital is what keeps everything afloat. Misha Collins is probably a huge draw.
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As far as fandom and viewership goes... Supernatural's ratings are generally around 2 million per episode, +/- a few hundred thousand, just in the US. That doesn't factor in the international stuff - it's popular enough for them to have multiple conventions in the UK, Rome, Brazil, etc. so it's raking in the viewers overseas. Not to mention DVD/Blu-ray sales and whatever they get from Netflix.
Online fandom numbers aren't anywhere near that. Supernatural is not a huge show, but it is not a tiny, super niche show either. It has found just the right spot on the CW, and has never really been in danger of being cancelled on that network. It would honestly take the network tanking for Supernatural to get cancelled. It has always been top or within the top 3 most viewed shows on the CW.
In the fandom, the loudest folks on tumblr/livejournal/twitter/whatever number in the thousands. Like, I would be super generous if I said 100 thousand. If they all disappeared the ratings wouldn't take a hit compared to the people who are discovering the show on Netflix and catching up with it live.
The Supernatural fandom has a very, very inflated sense of their own importance because of the way the writers pander to them and interact with them on twitter.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
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Same here. Despite more or less enjoying season 6 and some parts of 7, I'm now at the point where I actively encourage people to stop at season 5.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
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sure this has been said before. probably with Crowley as a roommate or some such
Part of the reason I didn't hate 8 as much as others is, IIRC correctly, there was much less angst. Like one episode and then it was over, granted all that "I don't know if I can trust you " bs got transferred onto Bobby Ghost.
Basically the brothers always need someone not to trust and act all highschool drama about. In regards to this, they are mostly monogamous.
Castiel getting a bit of action now and then.
I still think they missed out on having a great webseries at the start of this season chronicling what Crowley was doing to occupy himself in the trunk of the Impala.
Early series Supernatural would have been all over that like they were with GhostFacers.
Ghost Bobby was season 7.
8 was pretty angsty still.
There was the stupid bullshit about Sam not looking for Dean (which is still the most fucking out of character thing, I don't know how Carver thought that shit was a good idea, and they didn't even try to justify it)
There was Sam not trusting Dean re: Benny
There was Cas being mind controlled by Naomi
Then there was all that crap with Sam killing himself doing the trials, hiding it from Dean, and then Dean convincing him to not go through with it because what the fuck ever, making all the deaths and sacrifices up to that point utterly pointless
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Short preview clip from Comic Con. Tonally, looks great. No idea if the writers will actually remember any of their continuity and make it super cool, but
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
I think that sounds about right, pretty sure that it's Dean's turn to feel betrayed by Sam.
Is, he's Dean, but a demon now. Is he 'possessing' his own body? As in, can he smoke out or is he trapped? Is his body part of being a demon?
Was Cain the first demon? Perhaps because Dean is now like Cain, they're a different kind of demon?
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That's how I'd do it.
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They had a world! It wasn't always great (vampires, pagan gods) but there were bits of consistent detail you could draw out! And it's gone now.
I always thought SPN hell would have a kind of Silent Hill otherworld vibe, just with a bit more fire and blood.
And then they turned it into like, some generic dark dungeon hallway.
Thanks, season 8.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
After that, all we saw of hell were those close-ups of Dean's eyes all dark and bloody and stuff, and that one shot of Sam on fire in season 6.
They had been doing so well NOT showing hell before (which made sense, because if you can't do something like that right then you don't do it at all).
...and then they decided to just not do it right. God, how are Buckner and Ross-Leming still employed.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
But on the whole, like hell, I think it would have been better served in the long run remaining more nebulous. Less physical and real.
All right, so maybe after an angel takes a vessel, they are vessel-ized in heaven until they leave the vessel. But all the angels who fell looked like people. So did literally EVERY angel between 2008 and 2014 suddenly take a vessel? But that doesn't make sense either, since Gadreel went and got his vessel AFTER everyone fell.
psyduck.gif
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Is that... Is that fuckin' Dean Cain?
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
To be absolutely fair, that was after Crowley had redecorated. I figured it was the Silent Hill type prior to that.
Either way, the point of hell is to corrupt souls into demons, and both of those remodels make hell incredibly inefficient at that task.
It just takes all the fear and awe and horror out of a place that it literally supposed to be the worst place in the entire universe. So whoever decided to pull that shit is a fuckwad.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
And right here we have one the problem with the last few seasons. Somewhere along the line they started taking their dumb jokes (which have always been a great part of the show IMO) and starting actually taking them seriously. They make them cannon for some reason all while tearing apart their already established lore.
I really need to stop watching reruns of the first 5 seasons. It's just making me angry at this point.
The weird, telling bits are just about past seasons though and really highlight a lot of the inconsistencies that are starting to pile up.
So, okay, Sam was just lying that time. I guess that's an acceptable interpretation but the show itself wasn't really doing much with that idea. But whatever.
Hmm.
If you have such a long list of "different versions" of characters that you and the other actor have to keep coming up with, maybe stop doing that as the plot every season!
Honestly cant tell if they are brothers or married people having constant spats.
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I have a problem though.
I am sick of Sam and Dean's fucking bullshit!
They treat Castiel like shit! Castiel, who has helped them on every occasion. Castiel, who almost never asks for anything in return. Castiel,
It's like they're all about "What have you done for me lately" and when they have done nothing for Cass, they still demand he helps them.
Assholes!
Castiel ain't no saint.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
It's always fucking boggled my mind that the show tries to sell a friendship with Dean and Cas when Dean treats him like a tool and belittles him at every turn, and Sam treats him like a person. And don't say 'profound bond' - Cas rescued Dean from hell on orders. Cas rescued Sam from hell of his own free will.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...