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Want To Be A [Birther] In The Military? Hope You Like Making Little Rocks

2

Posts

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2010
    As to the "one drop rule," I think there's a fairly benign component to it. We are a predominantly white nation, especially in our pop culture. People are largely familiar with how white people look, and as such they identify faces based on the subtle variations that white people display. Which is why white folks often have difficulty discerning between members of non-white races. Their brains just simply aren't used to picking up on the variations between black noses and eyes and whatnot, and the difference between a black nose and a white nose is a lot bigger than the difference between multiple white noses. So the white fellow just sees the black guy as "generic black".

    This is pretty well documented, and I would wager that it plays into racial identification as well. It's really obvious when someone has parts of another race in him, because the facial characteristics and skin color are generally pretty distinct from Vanilla White Dude. If someone is half black and half white, the half black part is going to stand out substantially to anyone used to looking at white people. They're going to see him as "black" moreso than "white," not because they're latently racist or whatever, but because the physical variations stand out a lot.

    It's probably also particularly significant with part-black people, because the color difference between a black guy and a white guy is generally a lot starker than between, say, white and chinese, and because skin color is one of the most obvious traits.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Well, the one-drop rule also has a lot of batshit religious basis as well.

    steam_sig.png
  • override367override367 misogynist/MRA/socially irresponsible Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    My uncle's brother in law is a colonel and he's pretty liberal. Not when it comes to things like border control/muslims/the military budget, but in things like abortion/social welfare/taxes he is.

    I think you only need to be right wing in a couple of key areas or at least, not rock the boat with your politics in them to get ahead. And yes the Air Force is practically a fucking denomination of Christianity, it's downright terrifying.

    XBLIVE: Biggestoverride
    League of Legends: override367
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    My uncle's brother in law is a colonel and he's pretty liberal. Not when it comes to things like border control/muslims/the military budget, but in things like abortion/social welfare/taxes he is.

    I think you only need to be right wing in a couple of key areas or at least, not rock the boat with your politics in them to get ahead. And yes the Air Force is practically a fucking denomination of Christianity, it's downright terrifying.

    My last job involved working principally with AF personnel, and that's pretty much what I observed.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I like how the military guy is so patriotic that he's willing to, in principle, fuck over the troops in Afghanistan in order to stick it to the president.

    Yep.

    Kind of why democracy in the military doesn't work.

    PSN: allenquid
  • MrMisterMrMister Valuing scholarship above all elseRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Duffel wrote: »
    Well, technically President Obama isn't black.

    Well, technically racial classifications are largely arbitrary social constructs.

  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I want to chime in here and say "finally, some action." Also, I see that Orly was brought up. Does anyone mind giving me a run down on what's been going on with her? Either a link or just a brief write up is fine. Last I saw her was on Colbert waaaaaay back when.

    (PS: She's also a black belt in Tae-Kwon-do)

    newSig.jpg
  • override367override367 misogynist/MRA/socially irresponsible Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Obama won't let her be a dentist anymore last I heard

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  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    According to Wiki,
    On March 15, 2010, the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit affirmed the sanctions against Taitz, ordering her to pay the $20,000 fine.
    ...
    Taitz filed, on her own behalf, a petition for writ of quo warranto in D.C. district court. Taitz then moved to amend the complaint to include challenges to the newly enacted Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, and filed a motion with the judicial panel on multidistrict litigation, seeking to consolidate her lawsuit with other suits also challenging the law. The suit was dismissed on April 14, 2010, by Chief Judge Royce C. Lamberth. In his opinion, Lamberth said, "This is one of several such suits filed by Ms. Taitz in her quixotic attempt to prove that President Obama is not a natural born citizen as required by Constitution [sic]. See U.S. CONST. art. II, § 1. This Court is not willing to go tilting at windmills with her."
    ...
    Following the Rhodes v. MacDonald decision, and Taitz's subsequent comments regarding Judge Land, allegations that Taitz had violated her ethical obligation as a California attorney surfaced. Because of Taitz's demeaning comments regarding Judge Land, attorney Subodh Chandra filed an ethics complaint with the California State Bar arguing Taitz had violated her ethical obligation as an attorney.

    Apparently she's also trying to get media attention in Israel, and trying to run for Secretary of State in California.

    Yup, pretty much a bonafide media whore.

  • RanadielRanadiel Registered User
    edited April 2010
    I'm glad this guy is getting hosed. And as it was mentioned, his willingness to fuck over a bunch of his fellow troops just to raise fist against the president is laughable. He may not like Obama, but his not deploying doesn't affect the president - it affects the poor bastard who took IED shrapnal to the chest and needs care.

    With Obama's birth information being at the ready on so many available outlets, it'd have to be a Splinter Cell-esque conspiracy that no one in the birther movement could hope to unearth were it somehow all a lie. They would literally need Sam Fisher, Jason Bourne, Jack Bauer and Inspector Gadget on the case.

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Ranadiel wrote: »
    I'm glad this guy is getting hosed. And as it was mentioned, his willingness to fuck over a bunch of his fellow troops just to raise fist against the president is laughable. He may not like Obama, but his not deploying doesn't affect the president - it affects the poor bastard who took IED shrapnal to the chest and needs care.

    With Obama's birth information being at the ready on so many available outlets, it'd have to be a Splinter Cell-esque conspiracy that no one in the birther movement could hope to unearth were it somehow all a lie. They would literally need Sam Fisher, Jason Bourne, Jack Bauer and Inspector Gadget on the case.

    You forgot Solid Snake, Inspector Clouseau, Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, The Hardy Boys, Rick Deckard, and The Porn Inspector.

    steam_sig.png
  • DuffelDuffel Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    MrMister wrote: »
    Duffel wrote: »
    Well, technically President Obama isn't black.

    Well, technically racial classifications are largely arbitrary social constructs.

    Yes.

  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User
    edited April 2010
    KalTorak wrote: »
    According to Wiki,
    On March 15, 2010, the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit affirmed the sanctions against Taitz, ordering her to pay the $20,000 fine.
    ...
    Taitz filed, on her own behalf, a petition for writ of quo warranto in D.C. district court. Taitz then moved to amend the complaint to include challenges to the newly enacted Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, and filed a motion with the judicial panel on multidistrict litigation, seeking to consolidate her lawsuit with other suits also challenging the law. The suit was dismissed on April 14, 2010, by Chief Judge Royce C. Lamberth. In his opinion, Lamberth said, "This is one of several such suits filed by Ms. Taitz in her quixotic attempt to prove that President Obama is not a natural born citizen as required by Constitution [sic]. See U.S. CONST. art. II, § 1. This Court is not willing to go tilting at windmills with her."
    ...
    Following the Rhodes v. MacDonald decision, and Taitz's subsequent comments regarding Judge Land, allegations that Taitz had violated her ethical obligation as a California attorney surfaced. Because of Taitz's demeaning comments regarding Judge Land, attorney Subodh Chandra filed an ethics complaint with the California State Bar arguing Taitz had violated her ethical obligation as an attorney.

    Apparently she's also trying to get media attention in Israel, and trying to run for Secretary of State in California.

    Yup, pretty much a bonafide media whore.

    She's also sueing the Federal government because HCR prevents her from practising as a dentist....or something.

  • RanadielRanadiel Registered User
    edited April 2010
    Drez wrote: »
    Ranadiel wrote: »
    I'm glad this guy is getting hosed. And as it was mentioned, his willingness to fuck over a bunch of his fellow troops just to raise fist against the president is laughable. He may not like Obama, but his not deploying doesn't affect the president - it affects the poor bastard who took IED shrapnal to the chest and needs care.

    With Obama's birth information being at the ready on so many available outlets, it'd have to be a Splinter Cell-esque conspiracy that no one in the birther movement could hope to unearth were it somehow all a lie. They would literally need Sam Fisher, Jason Bourne, Jack Bauer and Inspector Gadget on the case.

    You forgot Solid Snake, Inspector Clouseau, Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, The Hardy Boys, Rick Deckard, and The Porn Inspector.

    Solid Snake was in my original posting but replaced with Jack Bauer.

    Might as well throw Tom Hanks as Robert Langdon in there too, because whatever conspiracy is afoot here would likely involve the Illuminati or some ancient religious cult.

  • JokermanJokerman Love is careless in its choosing. Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Duffel wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    The funniest part about it all? He was a birther. And he kept talking about how Obama wasn't even black.
    Well, technically President Obama isn't black. He's biracial. The fact that, in our society, "biracial = black" just illustrates that we have a lot farther to go toward racial equality than a lot of people are willing to admit.

    Not sure if that's what they were saying, though.

    He actualy was saying something about how Obama is 1\75th black or something. I mean I could make a whole nother thread based soley around this guys crazyness, So i don't want this one anymore then I already have. I did say to him "Doesn't he identify as black?" and he said "he only says that to score political points. The guy is a joke." at which point I reminded him in a couple of hours he was gonna be the head honcho, the C.E.O if you will, at which point he revealed that he's not even really the president because DUNUN! BIRTHER!

    It was my first upclose and personal meeting with a birther and I've never wanted to haul off and punch someone so badly in my life. I mean I've talked with Neo-Nazi's and Modern day facist and interviewed college republicans for the school newspaper, and managed to be friendly, if not at least civil. But this guys level of douchebaggery was just...so strong....

    ImOaLfG.png?1
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    Yeah, most of the military are hawk conservatives -

    The fact that a vast majority of the army is < 30 and makes <60k a year, and one of the huge selling points of recruitment is that by joining you get government healthcare, government access to education, and government retirement planning pretty much makes this the most hilariously ironic thing ever.

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I think that there's a confusion going on here between hawk and conservative. Hawkishness isn't inherently tied in to conservativism, it has just become associated together in our times. One could actually argue that a dovish isolationism might better fit with the core principles of smaller government conservativism.

    I guess my point is that insisting these things is WHAT makes them true, so if we see it as an issue, we ought to stop insisting on it.

    georgersig.jpg
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Duffel wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    The funniest part about it all? He was a birther. And he kept talking about how Obama wasn't even black.
    Well, technically President Obama isn't black. He's biracial. The fact that, in our society, "biracial = black" just illustrates that we have a lot farther to go toward racial equality than a lot of people are willing to admit.

    Not sure if that's what they were saying, though.
    A. Obama self-identifies as black.
    B. I think you mean "biracial with white and something else = something else".
    C. Quite a few black people in the US have non-black ancestry, so Obama is not particularly unusual in this.

    White is the only race that pureblood historically mattered for, in the western world. There are some lovely quaint terms for people who are only a little bit black (such as octoroon), but this wasn't to keep track of how black they were, it was to show that even if they might seem white, they weren't pure white anymore.

    As Captain Carrot implied, the best way to determine race these days is simply to go with what people self identify as.

    georgersig.jpg
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    Yeah, most of the military are hawk conservatives -

    The fact that a vast majority of the army is < 30 and makes <60k a year, and one of the huge selling points of recruitment is that by joining you get government healthcare, government access to education, and government retirement planning pretty much makes this the most hilariously ironic thing ever.

    Conversely when you might fucking die for your country, I'd kind of expect that to be a reasonable thing to give them. It doesn't make them not wrong, but I do feel it dampens the irony.

  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    Duffel wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    The funniest part about it all? He was a birther. And he kept talking about how Obama wasn't even black.
    Well, technically President Obama isn't black. He's biracial. The fact that, in our society, "biracial = black" just illustrates that we have a lot farther to go toward racial equality than a lot of people are willing to admit.

    Not sure if that's what they were saying, though.
    A. Obama self-identifies as black.
    B. I think you mean "biracial with white and something else = something else".
    C. Quite a few black people in the US have non-black ancestry, so Obama is not particularly unusual in this.

    White is the only race that pureblood historically mattered for, in the western world. There are some lovely quaint terms for people who are only a little bit black (such as octoroon), but this wasn't to keep track of how black they were, it was to show that even if they might seem white, they weren't pure white anymore.

    As Captain Carrot implied, the best way to determine race these days is simply to go with what people self identify as.

    This becomes even more confusing when you realize that classic definitions said Jews were Asian and the Irish were black.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • Kayne Red RobeKayne Red Robe Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    I think that there's a confusion going on here between hawk and conservative. Hawkishness isn't inherently tied in to conservativism, it has just become associated together in our times. One could actually argue that a dovish isolationism might better fit with the core principles of smaller government conservativism.

    I guess my point is that insisting these things is WHAT makes them true, so if we see it as an issue, we ought to stop insisting on it.

    Indeed. I can tell you from my experience it is entirely possible to be a liberal war hawk*. Although it does tend to confuse the hell out of people.

    *The trick is, you have to be pro efficient military, and for making war when necessary. Republican war hawks confuse me.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    There are plenty of liberal hawks. Lieberman is the most prominent example, traditionally. Of course, now he's just an asshole out of spite because of the Lamont thing, but he was a hawk back when he still had domestically liberal positions too.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    My uncle's brother in law is a colonel and he's pretty liberal. Not when it comes to things like border control/muslims/the military budget, but in things like abortion/social welfare/taxes he is.

    I think you only need to be right wing in a couple of key areas or at least, not rock the boat with your politics in them to get ahead. And yes the Air Force is practically a fucking denomination of Christianity, it's downright terrifying.

    My last job involved working principally with AF personnel, and that's pretty much what I observed.

    I worked with Air Force Research Lab at one point and it wasn't like that at all, but AFRL probably doesn't count.

    vvvvvv-dithw.png
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    Yeah, most of the military are hawk conservatives -

    The fact that a vast majority of the army is < 30 and makes <60k a year, and one of the huge selling points of recruitment is that by joining you get government healthcare, government access to education, and government retirement planning pretty much makes this the most hilariously ironic thing ever.

    Conversely when you might fucking die for your country, I'd kind of expect that to be a reasonable thing to give them. It doesn't make them not wrong, but I do feel it dampens the irony.

    There's no "right" or "wrong" - the simple fact is they are conservative as a body, and generally against the public getting what they have. Their solution for the issues of healthcare, education, and retirement is "work for the government" and they majority self identify with political platforms that decry government healthcare, education, and retirement as "socialist"

    They should be COMPENSATED for their dangerous job. The fact that we as a nation do so largely through benefits economized by scale instead of cash is EXACTLY the point I'm making. They aren't being "given" anything - they are being paid directly in benefits to a greater degree then anyone else because they are in such a huge employment pool, and it's an avowed selling point used by conservative military brass who say they hate socialized services to convince a young worker body (who are convinced they also hate socialism) to do the job.

    There's irony in play there.

  • MrMisterMrMister Valuing scholarship above all elseRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    There are plenty of liberal hawks. Lieberman is the most prominent example, traditionally. Of course, now he's just an asshole out of spite because of the Lamont thing, but he was a hawk back when he still had domestically liberal positions too.

    Also, Biden said a lot of hawkish things about the Russia/Georgia conflict.

    Which was pretty what the fuck.

  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    I think that there's a confusion going on here between hawk and conservative. Hawkishness isn't inherently tied in to conservativism, it has just become associated together in our times. One could actually argue that a dovish isolationism might better fit with the core principles of smaller government conservativism.

    I guess my point is that insisting these things is WHAT makes them true, so if we see it as an issue, we ought to stop insisting on it.

    Indeed. I can tell you from my experience it is entirely possible to be a liberal war hawk*. Although it does tend to confuse the hell out of people.

    *The trick is, you have to be pro efficient military, and for making war when necessary. Republican war hawks confuse me.

    Also, Israel is a generally hawkish nation where socialist communes are the national halcyon community.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    MrMister wrote: »
    There are plenty of liberal hawks. Lieberman is the most prominent example, traditionally. Of course, now he's just an asshole out of spite because of the Lamont thing, but he was a hawk back when he still had domestically liberal positions too.

    Also, Biden said a lot of hawkish things about the Russia/Georgia conflict.

    Which was pretty what the fuck.

    And half the caucus voted aye on the Iraq War resolution...

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • N1tSt4lkerN1tSt4lker Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    Yeah, most of the military are hawk conservatives -

    The fact that a vast majority of the army is < 30 and makes <60k a year, and one of the huge selling points of recruitment is that by joining you get government healthcare, government access to education, and government retirement planning pretty much makes this the most hilariously ironic thing ever.

    Conversely when you might fucking die for your country, I'd kind of expect that to be a reasonable thing to give them. It doesn't make them not wrong, but I do feel it dampens the irony.

    There's no "right" or "wrong" - the simple fact is they are conservative as a body, and generally against the public getting what they have. Their solution for the issues of healthcare, education, and retirement is "work for the government" and they majority self identify with political platforms that decry government healthcare, education, and retirement as "socialist"

    They should be COMPENSATED for their dangerous job. The fact that we as a nation do so largely through benefits economized by scale instead of cash is EXACTLY the point I'm making. They aren't being "given" anything - they are being paid directly in benefits to a greater degree then anyone else because they are in such a huge employment pool, and it's an avowed selling point used by conservative military brass who say they hate socialized services to convince a young worker body (who are convinced they also hate socialism) to do the job.

    There's irony in play there.

    Indeed. My brother is a Guardsman and has several times partaken of his free health care benefits. He was and remains vocally against the recently passed health care bill.

  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Harrisonburg, VARegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Duffel wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    The funniest part about it all? He was a birther. And he kept talking about how Obama wasn't even black.
    Well, technically President Obama isn't black. He's biracial. The fact that, in our society, "biracial = black" just illustrates that we have a lot farther to go toward racial equality than a lot of people are willing to admit.

    Not sure if that's what they were saying, though.
    A. Obama self-identifies as black.
    B. I think you mean "biracial with white and something else = something else".
    C. Quite a few black people in the US have non-black ancestry, so Obama is not particularly unusual in this.

    White is the only race that pureblood historically mattered for, in the western world. There are some lovely quaint terms for people who are only a little bit black (such as octoroon), but this wasn't to keep track of how black they were, it was to show that even if they might seem white, they weren't pure white anymore.

    As Captain Carrot implied, the best way to determine race these days is simply to go with what people self identify as.

    This becomes even more confusing when you realize that classic definitions said Jews were Asian and the Irish were black.
    Irish, Italians, and I think Greeks weren't considered properly 'white', but I don't think people thought of them as black either.
    MrMister wrote: »
    There are plenty of liberal hawks. Lieberman is the most prominent example, traditionally. Of course, now he's just an asshole out of spite because of the Lamont thing, but he was a hawk back when he still had domestically liberal positions too.

    Also, Biden said a lot of hawkish things about the Russia/Georgia conflict.

    Which was pretty what the fuck.

    And half the caucus voted aye on the Iraq War resolution...
    Pretty different caucus back then, though; nine are no longer serving, and that doesn't count Zell Miller and Fritz Hollings.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Pretty different caucus back then, though; nine are no longer serving, and that doesn't count Zell Miller and Fritz Hollings.

    One of them is also Secretary of State...

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Harrisonburg, VARegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Pretty different caucus back then, though; nine are no longer serving, and that doesn't count Zell Miller and Fritz Hollings.

    One of them is also Secretary of State...

    Ten, since I got Clinton but missed Biden. Also, the 33 Democrats still serving from then are not much more than half the caucus, and many of the additions are willing to have spines occasionally.

  • aaronsedgeaaronsedge __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    N1tSt4lker wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    Yeah, most of the military are hawk conservatives -

    The fact that a vast majority of the army is < 30 and makes <60k a year, and one of the huge selling points of recruitment is that by joining you get government healthcare, government access to education, and government retirement planning pretty much makes this the most hilariously ironic thing ever.

    Conversely when you might fucking die for your country, I'd kind of expect that to be a reasonable thing to give them. It doesn't make them not wrong, but I do feel it dampens the irony.

    There's no "right" or "wrong" - the simple fact is they are conservative as a body, and generally against the public getting what they have. Their solution for the issues of healthcare, education, and retirement is "work for the government" and they majority self identify with political platforms that decry government healthcare, education, and retirement as "socialist"

    They should be COMPENSATED for their dangerous job. The fact that we as a nation do so largely through benefits economized by scale instead of cash is EXACTLY the point I'm making. They aren't being "given" anything - they are being paid directly in benefits to a greater degree then anyone else because they are in such a huge employment pool, and it's an avowed selling point used by conservative military brass who say they hate socialized services to convince a young worker body (who are convinced they also hate socialism) to do the job.

    There's irony in play there.

    Indeed. My brother is a Guardsman and has several times partaken of his free health care benefits. He was and remains vocally against the recently passed health care bill.

    My brother in law and his buddies are the same way. I figure their way of thinking is that it isn't really free. They're earning it.

    edit- yeah basically what was said.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Spoiler:
  • DelzhandDelzhand motivated battle programmerRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    why? how long has it been this way?

    partisanship goes directly against what the military stands for. if it has infected the ranks of the military, then something obviously needs to be done to purge it.

    What planet have you guys been on? Its been that way since like forever and its not a US thing either. In every country I know of the Millitary is a bastion of conservative politics. Maybe not in the crazy batshits Air Force Evangelicals, but its there.

    Its the basic nature of the millitary: if you sign up to kill or die for something you must really like it the way it is.

    Oh man, the Air force is the fucking worse. Nothing against any Airmen who may post here, as I consider the peers here to be above this level of goosey, but when I was on a shuttle to MEPS to sign my final contract with the army and ship off, I witnesed something that made me question if i should have ever tried.
    Spoiler:

    True story, every word was spoken.

    The only proper response would have been "It's hard to pull yourself up by the bootstraps if you only have half a pair."

    jk0Btsj.png
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Ranadiel wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Ranadiel wrote: »
    I'm glad this guy is getting hosed. And as it was mentioned, his willingness to fuck over a bunch of his fellow troops just to raise fist against the president is laughable. He may not like Obama, but his not deploying doesn't affect the president - it affects the poor bastard who took IED shrapnal to the chest and needs care.

    With Obama's birth information being at the ready on so many available outlets, it'd have to be a Splinter Cell-esque conspiracy that no one in the birther movement could hope to unearth were it somehow all a lie. They would literally need Sam Fisher, Jason Bourne, Jack Bauer and Inspector Gadget on the case.

    You forgot Solid Snake, Inspector Clouseau, Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, The Hardy Boys, Rick Deckard, and The Porn Inspector.

    Solid Snake was in my original posting but replaced with Jack Bauer.

    Might as well throw Tom Hanks as Robert Langdon in there too, because whatever conspiracy is afoot here would likely involve the Illuminati or some ancient religious cult.

    You forgot Undercover Brother and the Hebrew Hammer.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • FremanFreman Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Is there any reason other than their Academy sharing a town with a mega-church that the Air Force is so conservative? Being the best treated service with the lowest chance of being shot, you'd think it would attract the biggest "I just want to pay for school" crowd.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic I've Done Worse Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Ranadiel wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Ranadiel wrote: »
    I'm glad this guy is getting hosed. And as it was mentioned, his willingness to fuck over a bunch of his fellow troops just to raise fist against the president is laughable. He may not like Obama, but his not deploying doesn't affect the president - it affects the poor bastard who took IED shrapnal to the chest and needs care.

    With Obama's birth information being at the ready on so many available outlets, it'd have to be a Splinter Cell-esque conspiracy that no one in the birther movement could hope to unearth were it somehow all a lie. They would literally need Sam Fisher, Jason Bourne, Jack Bauer and Inspector Gadget on the case.

    You forgot Solid Snake, Inspector Clouseau, Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, The Hardy Boys, Rick Deckard, and The Porn Inspector.

    Solid Snake was in my original posting but replaced with Jack Bauer.

    Might as well throw Tom Hanks as Robert Langdon in there too, because whatever conspiracy is afoot here would likely involve the Illuminati or some ancient religious cult.

    You forgot Undercover Brother and the Hebrew Hammer.

    ......pssst.

    [tiny]There both in on it, come on! A black guy and a jew? Totally part of the conspiracy![/tiny]

    Trogg wrote: »
    Not as positive as AIDS and cancer, but positive nonetheless.

    PSN: QuipFilter
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    why? how long has it been this way?

    partisanship goes directly against what the military stands for. if it has infected the ranks of the military, then something obviously needs to be done to purge it.

    What planet have you guys been on? Its been that way since like forever and its not a US thing either. In every country I know of the Millitary is a bastion of conservative politics. Maybe not in the crazy batshits Air Force Evangelicals, but its there.

    Its the basic nature of the millitary: if you sign up to kill or die for something you must really like it the way it is.

    Oh man, the Air force is the fucking worse. Nothing against any Airmen who may post here, as I consider the peers here to be above this level of goosey, but when I was on a shuttle to MEPS to sign my final contract with the army and ship off, I witnesed something that made me question if i should have ever tried.
    Spoiler:

    True story, every word was spoken.

    The only proper response would have been "It's hard to pull yourself up by the bootstraps if you only have half a pair."

    Okay, you managed to turn a story around from pissing me off to making me laugh. Thanks.

    Those guys are still assholes though. It's like they don't know about Vietnam vets getting the shaft.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Ranadiel wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Ranadiel wrote: »
    I'm glad this guy is getting hosed. And as it was mentioned, his willingness to fuck over a bunch of his fellow troops just to raise fist against the president is laughable. He may not like Obama, but his not deploying doesn't affect the president - it affects the poor bastard who took IED shrapnal to the chest and needs care.

    With Obama's birth information being at the ready on so many available outlets, it'd have to be a Splinter Cell-esque conspiracy that no one in the birther movement could hope to unearth were it somehow all a lie. They would literally need Sam Fisher, Jason Bourne, Jack Bauer and Inspector Gadget on the case.

    You forgot Solid Snake, Inspector Clouseau, Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, The Hardy Boys, Rick Deckard, and The Porn Inspector.

    Solid Snake was in my original posting but replaced with Jack Bauer.

    Might as well throw Tom Hanks as Robert Langdon in there too, because whatever conspiracy is afoot here would likely involve the Illuminati or some ancient religious cult.

    You forgot Undercover Brother and the Hebrew Hammer.

    ......pssst.

    [tiny]There both in on it, come on! A black guy and a jew? Totally part of the conspiracy![/tiny]

    Goddamn it, I knew someone would do that. :P

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • JokermanJokerman Love is careless in its choosing. Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    why? how long has it been this way?

    partisanship goes directly against what the military stands for. if it has infected the ranks of the military, then something obviously needs to be done to purge it.

    What planet have you guys been on? Its been that way since like forever and its not a US thing either. In every country I know of the Millitary is a bastion of conservative politics. Maybe not in the crazy batshits Air Force Evangelicals, but its there.

    Its the basic nature of the millitary: if you sign up to kill or die for something you must really like it the way it is.

    Oh man, the Air force is the fucking worse. Nothing against any Airmen who may post here, as I consider the peers here to be above this level of goosey, but when I was on a shuttle to MEPS to sign my final contract with the army and ship off, I witnesed something that made me question if i should have ever tried.
    Spoiler:

    True story, every word was spoken.

    The only proper response would have been "It's hard to pull yourself up by the bootstraps if you only have half a pair."

    Okay, you managed to turn a story around from pissing me off to making me laugh. Thanks.

    Those guys are still assholes though. It's like they don't know about Vietnam vets getting the shaft.

    Yeah, those guys were pretty much the picture perfect rich white kid with entitlement issues that you would find at a Teaparty rally or supporting ron paul.

    I was glad I wasn't going into the Airforce at the moment, the urge to give them a blanket party would have been high.

    ImOaLfG.png?1
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Jokerman wrote: »
    the millitary is a convervative institution by nature

    what does that mean?

    It means that there's a large amount of right wing politics ingrained into the millitary at a base level, ESPECIALY if you're an Officer. If you vote democrat, and you let other people know, then you can pretty much expect not to become higher then Captain.

    why? how long has it been this way?

    partisanship goes directly against what the military stands for. if it has infected the ranks of the military, then something obviously needs to be done to purge it.

    What planet have you guys been on? Its been that way since like forever and its not a US thing either. In every country I know of the Millitary is a bastion of conservative politics. Maybe not in the crazy batshits Air Force Evangelicals, but its there.

    Its the basic nature of the millitary: if you sign up to kill or die for something you must really like it the way it is.

    Oh man, the Air force is the fucking worse. Nothing against any Airmen who may post here, as I consider the peers here to be above this level of goosey, but when I was on a shuttle to MEPS to sign my final contract with the army and ship off, I witnesed something that made me question if i should have ever tried.
    Spoiler:

    True story, every word was spoken.

    The only proper response would have been "It's hard to pull yourself up by the bootstraps if you only have half a pair."

    Okay, you managed to turn a story around from pissing me off to making me laugh. Thanks.

    Those guys are still assholes though. It's like they don't know about Vietnam vets getting the shaft.

    I have to say...and I don't think this is just my unfamiliarity with some of the nuisances of American life...but that pretty much boggles the mind. I mean, I could, under certain circumstances, I can understand thinking this, but it takes a certain amount of gumption or something to actually say it out loud.

    I mean, I knew officers who actually resigned for things not nearly that bad. After a few months of people talking behind their backs and basically being ostracized.

    It's kind of hard not to think that some sort of reflex wouldn't kick in at some point....

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
2
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