Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited May 2010
Wait, what? Void ray rush isn't a predominant 2v2 tactic, unless you're on twilight fortress and your opponent doesn't scout.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited May 2010
If a dude is rushing voidrays in 2v2 then one of two things happen:
I kill the thing with my stalkers and laugh maniacally.
I have already raped robbed pillaged and burned his probes with my "rapers".
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i love when the enemy decides he'll mass void rays because my buddy just gives me some gas and i'll pop out some ghosts.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited May 2010
You know what people actually do rush to in 2v2?
Mutalisks.
Every fucking day.
Munkus Beaver on
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Well, as i'm sure you know, it's because the zerg's ally can dump all his resources on him right when the spire pops and he can blow 20 larvae on mutas.
Well, as i'm sure you know, it's because the zerg's ally can dump all his resources on him right when the spire pops and he can blow 20 larvae on mutas.
yeah...feed strategies are quite a bit better in sc2 than wc3 because of the narrow chokepoints and lack of upkeep
i'm of the personal opinion that resource trading should be limited in some way in sc2
Man I just don't understand why I lose. I watched about 15 replays of terran players who open with reaper, into hellions into hellion marauder. I just tried it against a zerg who did a one base push and he fucking wrecked me. It wasn't even close. I had two reapers and he had a dozen roaches. How is this even possible to counter with this build? I hate playing the game like this, it seems like no matter what I do I have to respond to what the enemy is doing, not the other way around. They are setting the terms of the game not me.
In all these replays they didn't even consider changing their opening they just went with it and it worked. I killed a lot of his workers but I don't think it mattered at all. I need to take a break after my first game of the day, my hands are shaking pretty bad and I have incredibly steady hands.
I saw a few pages back people having their games hang when they quit. To avoid it, Log Out first then quit. I found this to be successful with me when I exit the game
Also, blink is my answer to everything in PvP. It's so so good. Lot Rush into Stalker Blink Pushes, so so very good.
Man I just don't understand why I lose. I watched about 15 replays of terran players who open with reaper, into hellions into hellion marauder. I just tried it against a zerg who did a one base push and he fucking wrecked me. It wasn't even close. I had two reapers and he had a dozen roaches. How is this even possible to counter with this build? I hate playing the game like this, it seems like no matter what I do I have to respond to what the enemy is doing, not the other way around. They are setting the terms of the game not me.
In all these replays they didn't even consider changing their opening they just went with it and it worked. I killed a lot of his workers but I don't think it mattered at all. I need to take a break after my first game of the day, my hands are shaking pretty bad and I have incredibly steady hands.
If he's 1 base roaching you should probably sit back behind your wall until you have enough marauders to move out. At the same time go for some vikings to kill off his OL.
Ya but I wanted to try that one build order out that every pro terran seems to do every single game, he didn't even scout me at all and he got it to work. Its like the counter to my build.
Can I just not get some build orders to work? I am pretty sure I saw the reaper opening work against a one base zerg but I don't think I ever saw roaches.
I think I really just need to play some practice matches against people, like 10 or so a day. Right now I can only do 5 ladder games at the most before I am burned out.
And if you see he is roaching, just don't even bother with hellions. Roaches are very much the counter to your strategy. Pump marauders and tanks if you can spare it and get to vikings in order to hunt down OLs and eventually repel mutas.
reapers don't work all that well against zerg because they get a queen to fend you off rather well, and zerglings are fast enough on creep to chase you down
it really sounds like you're just having a problem with execution though, anyone can do a build order, execution makes the difference
edit: 2-3 hellions to marauders is pretty standard for ZvT to harass early on, don't think he needs to cut that
Ya but I wanted to try that one build order out that every pro terran seems to do every single game, he didn't even scout me at all and he got it to work. Its like the counter to my build.
Can I just not get some build orders to work? I am pretty sure I saw the reaper opening work against a one base zerg but I don't think I ever saw roaches.
I think I really just need to play some practice matches against people, like 10 or so a day. Right now I can only do 5 ladder games at the most before I am burned out.
Yeah I think practice matches against the same opponent would be better. I play zerg and I love doing build refinement matches like that, though I don't have much time at all to play right now. However I'll be done with school in like 2 weeks.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
reapers don't work all that well against zerg because they get a queen to fend you off rather well, and zerglings are fast enough on creep to chase you down
Not entirely true.
If they go for a fast expand, your reaper will wreck havoc on their drones at least for a while.
Especially if your SCV builds a bunker while your reaper dances.
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Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Man I hate Protoss so much sometimes. I had such a grand Hydralisk and Roach army, and no matter how many I roused up he could just use his stupid gateways and bring up a new army. And then came the Colossi.
Lord_Asmodeus on
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
I am just not use to seeing roaches that fast, I usually scout around 12/13 and then maybe once more but I usually drop my second scan to scout if I can't get a unit in. With this build though he managed to get roaches between my 12/13 scv and then before my reaper. Pretty impressive, I must have missed it with my first reaper though but at that point it didn't matter since the reaper takes so long to come out. I wonder if just cutting the reaper out entirely, since I am not pro with micro, would help. Maybe if I rush straight to marauders and then start pumping out hellions, the only thing that could break me is an insanely fast zergling rush which is really easy to spot.
Actually Day9 casted the replay pack I was studying, the Lucifron games. I watched the replay a week or so ago.
Man I hate Protoss so much sometimes. I had such a grand Hydralisk and Roach army, and no matter how many I roused up he could just use his stupid gateways and bring up a new army. And then came the Colossi.
that's why you reinforce along the super creep highway!
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
I had a super creep highway! I could call up 14+ Hydralisks at a time, and he'd barely just expanded, and I could barely keep up with him until he got colossi.
Lord_Asmodeus on
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
reapers don't work all that well against zerg because they get a queen to fend you off rather well, and zerglings are fast enough on creep to chase you down
Not entirely true.
If they go for a fast expand, your reaper will wreck havoc on their drones at least for a while.
Especially if your SCV builds a bunker while your reaper dances.
only if it's a fast fast expand, like hatchery before pool
and if you get punished for that, you totally deserve it
as for scv building bunker, that's also usually stoppable if you pull some drones off the line to attack the scv
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Dusdais ashamed of this postSLC, UTRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Starcraft threads should be able to go to 200 pages.
Well, I just played some 1v1 games on the ladder. I think I'm getting better. I got smoked by a Terran using a more refined version of the tank push I normally attempt, so I adopted it and promptly crushed someone else (who was named Fizban.fizban, actually, and whom I at first thought was another PAer).
I seem to be slowly moving up the ranks, too.
Anyway, I'm going to get some food but I'll be online afterward if anyone wants to get some practice matches in. There's still a lot of stuff I need to work on against every race.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited May 2010
The thing about the reaper push is that you can very easily switch to marauders and retreat your reaper if they are going roaches.
Munkus Beaver on
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If I ever start with reapers that is what I tend to do. No reason to stay and try and snipe another drone or two. Pull him out and let him join the main ball or scout or set him aside and throw him in while you attack another front.
I saw a few pages back people having their games hang when they quit. To avoid it, Log Out first then quit. I found this to be successful with me when I exit the game
Also, blink is my answer to everything in PvP. It's so so good. Lot Rush into Stalker Blink Pushes, so so very good.
Augh, me love you long time. This happens to me everytime I exit SC2 and always resulted in me needing to pull the plug on my computer.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited May 2010
In 2v2, one of the things I like to do is go reapers while my ally goes zealots.
Then he pushes in the front door while I go in the back.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Oh baby, just won my last 1v1 placement match. I am now a gold player . It was a very close game
I had a bad start and it doesn't help my left click sometimes double clicks so when telling one of my drones to go to gas all of them get selected from the unintended doubleclick and then taken off minerals.
I was going to build lots of roaches and then get hydras as I usually do. I have a good roach army and now its time to start building hydras. I put down the den right as the toss player comes in with two voidrays and starts annihilating my queen. I thought "Dang it I lost there's no way ill get AA in time". Then I took all my roaches and half of my workers and made a suicide run to his base. It was actually poorly defended and got around the sentry wall off. The game became a base race, and he was winning. So I took 2 of my attack drones and sent them off in different directions.
I made 2 hatcheries in hidden places on the map as I continued destroying his base. I sent up so reinforcement zerglings that caught his emergency workers and killed them all except one, which was heading towards my dying base. I took a posse of my drones and surrounded it and killed it. By this time the protoss has killed my base and wondering why he hasn't won. I then finish off his last few buildings before he could find my hatcheries and won the game!
It is exhilarating to go from "Man I lost" to "HOLY CRAP ITS WORKING"
I've been in this situation before, as the Protoss.
I usually win though, as when I rush to void rays I proxy my stargate instead of building it in my base, and I also usually build it near an expansion so I can drop a Nexus when my main one dies, to delay them finding the proxy.
And its also irrelevant by then because I have 5-7 void rays in the time its taken them to kill my base, and all I have to do is leave most of them at my stargate and roll around with a lone ray looking for their last buildings.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited May 2010
I won a game where I had three stalkers four probes and the other guy had eight zealots.
My probes built assimilators at various locations on the map while the stalkers ran from the zealots and picked them off one by one until he quit.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
reapers don't work all that well against zerg because they get a queen to fend you off rather well, and zerglings are fast enough on creep to chase you down
Not entirely true.
If they go for a fast expand, your reaper will wreck havoc on their drones at least for a while.
Especially if your SCV builds a bunker while your reaper dances.
only if it's a fast fast expand, like hatchery before pool
and if you get punished for that, you totally deserve it
as for scv building bunker, that's also usually stoppable if you pull some drones off the line to attack the scv
You can build the bunker at the FE site while the reaper distracts at the base.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Here's an interesting TvT I just had versus a rank 3 platinum terran. Really demonstrates the importance of not floating munnies, I think.
Oddly enough, watching the replay, he SHOULD have won. He out expoed me, but didn't really seem to know what to do with his money. I eventually catch up with income and destroy his expos, and when he finally DOES decide to dump all of his money, he does it in the strangest way possible.
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i think is what was good about dj is he knew when to hand it off to day for strategy talk
but he also knows how to fill the air
seems like an alright fella
it's ok munkus, we just don't know what we're talking about because we never 2v2.
I kill the thing with my stalkers and laugh maniacally.
I have already raped robbed pillaged and burned his probes with my "rapers".
Mutalisks.
Every fucking day.
Well, as i'm sure you know, it's because the zerg's ally can dump all his resources on him right when the spire pops and he can blow 20 larvae on mutas.
Its a good feeling
AKA [PA]Ilovepandas
yeah...feed strategies are quite a bit better in sc2 than wc3 because of the narrow chokepoints and lack of upkeep
i'm of the personal opinion that resource trading should be limited in some way in sc2
In all these replays they didn't even consider changing their opening they just went with it and it worked. I killed a lot of his workers but I don't think it mattered at all. I need to take a break after my first game of the day, my hands are shaking pretty bad and I have incredibly steady hands.
Also, blink is my answer to everything in PvP. It's so so good. Lot Rush into Stalker Blink Pushes, so so very good.
get your own starcraft 2 signature at sc2sig.com
If he's 1 base roaching you should probably sit back behind your wall until you have enough marauders to move out. At the same time go for some vikings to kill off his OL.
Can I just not get some build orders to work? I am pretty sure I saw the reaper opening work against a one base zerg but I don't think I ever saw roaches.
I think I really just need to play some practice matches against people, like 10 or so a day. Right now I can only do 5 ladder games at the most before I am burned out.
it really sounds like you're just having a problem with execution though, anyone can do a build order, execution makes the difference
edit: 2-3 hellions to marauders is pretty standard for ZvT to harass early on, don't think he needs to cut that
Yeah I think practice matches against the same opponent would be better. I play zerg and I love doing build refinement matches like that, though I don't have much time at all to play right now. However I'll be done with school in like 2 weeks.
Not entirely true.
If they go for a fast expand, your reaper will wreck havoc on their drones at least for a while.
Especially if your SCV builds a bunker while your reaper dances.
Actually Day9 casted the replay pack I was studying, the Lucifron games. I watched the replay a week or so ago.
that's why you reinforce along the super creep highway!
only if it's a fast fast expand, like hatchery before pool
and if you get punished for that, you totally deserve it
as for scv building bunker, that's also usually stoppable if you pull some drones off the line to attack the scv
I seem to be slowly moving up the ranks, too.
Anyway, I'm going to get some food but I'll be online afterward if anyone wants to get some practice matches in. There's still a lot of stuff I need to work on against every race.
Augh, me love you long time. This happens to me everytime I exit SC2 and always resulted in me needing to pull the plug on my computer.
Then he pushes in the front door while I go in the back.
I've been in this situation before, as the Protoss.
I usually win though, as when I rush to void rays I proxy my stargate instead of building it in my base, and I also usually build it near an expansion so I can drop a Nexus when my main one dies, to delay them finding the proxy.
And its also irrelevant by then because I have 5-7 void rays in the time its taken them to kill my base, and all I have to do is leave most of them at my stargate and roll around with a lone ray looking for their last buildings.
My probes built assimilators at various locations on the map while the stalkers ran from the zealots and picked them off one by one until he quit.
You can build the bunker at the FE site while the reaper distracts at the base.
Oddly enough, watching the replay, he SHOULD have won. He out expoed me, but didn't really seem to know what to do with his money. I eventually catch up with income and destroy his expos, and when he finally DOES decide to dump all of his money, he does it in the strangest way possible.
http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/4250
my girlfriend's Macbook Pro can run this at pretty decent framerate with not-too-appalling graphics.
Worth trying at least, if you can get a beta invite, since they cost nothing.
isn't there a giant big annotation that warns of that fact near the end of part two?
It wasn't there when I watched it last night.
If I had a Macbook Pro, I'd be hopeful. But I'm running just a straight up 3 year-old Macbook Not-Pro.
Do you have annotations enabled?
Serves me right for not immediately teching to lair....
So much rage right now.