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Harry Dresden: Wizard, White Knight and Complete Dork.

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Posts

  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Passer, Dead Beat is kind of a low point. I mean it doesn't mean the world is getting safer for Harry afterwards but I would say Proven Guilty is less downbeat. Plus it moves on to more of the upbeat ones like Ghost Story.

    Mazzyx on
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  • PasserbyePasserbye I am much older than you. in Beach CityRegistered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote:
    Passer, Dead Beat is kind of a low point. I mean it doesn't mean the world is getting safer for Harry afterwards but I would say Proven Guilty is less downbeat. Plus it moves on to more of the upbeat ones like Ghost Story.

    Hah, yes, Ghost Story. I know the general context of that one.
    Yay, Harry's a ghost! Wait, no. Boo.
    See what I did there? :P

    Perhaps I am not giving Butcher enough credit - entirely possible he could turn the general context of Ghost Story into something pleasant.

    Still, gonna start slogging through Proven Guilty. Suspicious that I'll regret it, but ehn. If it's too much I can always take a break after and finish up Polgara the Sorceress before continuing on.

  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    I really liked Proven Guilty. I pretty much totally dig anything with more faerie intrigue.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    I've got a group ready to play it, but we still need a GM. Interested, or do you want to be a player instead?

    I'm currently unemployed (hence the reading pace), and would be quite interested in a gaming group. I have no familiarity with the system though.

    History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Speaking of reading pace, I'm now through books 10 and 11.
    I was going to post after book 10 and bitch how Harry and Luccio make NO SENSE together, but the forums were down and so I moved on to 11. And them making no sense together turns into a total plot point, so, alright, touche Butcher. Uh, throwing out random thoughts are a lot easier in bulletpoint, sooo...
    * I still wasn't really that clear in book 10 on why Summer wanted to kill Harry so much. Or if it was just the Gruffs doing their thing. Or whatever.
    * Still no return of Lash, which is too bad since she's way more fun then Harry's replacement Soul Fire or whatever the heck.
    * Harry's really gotten over his angry, berserker, using the powers of darkness against darkness role. Which I guess is good for Harry, but I did rather enjoy his Darth Sidious impersonations. On the other hand, he's not nearly as much of a dumbass about women either. Still not sure if it's Harry or Butcher growing up, but either way it's appreciated.
    * One thing I preferred in the early books was the idea that Michael's faith was a power in and of itself. Maybe there was a god or not, but it was Michael's faith in goodness and his living life by his ideals that gave him power which was anathema to the various nasties. Now it's much more a straight-up "Harry, angels are giving you powers" thing, which is generally a lot less interesting to me.
    * So Harry's got some sort of power or talent vs. outsiders. ...Okay?
    * Poor fallen angels got a massive power demotion since their last appearance. Even his brother took out one.
    * I'm still wishing we got a scene of Molly getting to hang out with a bunch of other apprentices. Because she'd get to show off so much.
    book 11
    * The skinchanger was a pretty cool villain. Unlike some previous villains, who we're told are crazy powerful and then fail to ever really do much except pound Harry for half a book, this guy gets to really show off his stuff. Although seriously, doesn't anyone ever need a doctor in this universe? Our heroes seem to recover from amazing punishment just through the healing powers of Harry's couch.
    * Ugh. As soon as the book started focusing so much on how important Peabody was, it was obvious that he was the mole. It seems a little weird that, seeing as how our only real knowledge about him is how anal and organized he is, his magic style is mindfuckery. Besides that, with that amazing amount of information, shouldn't he have provided even more intel by now? Also, if he's in with the black council, and he wrote the book on the Erlking, why did the necromancers spend so much time trying to get his book? Couldn't they have just asked their man on the inside to loan them his primary sources? I'm still not sure this whole "All these problems are actually tied together!" plot thread is actually holding together.
    * Seriously, if you had a crush on someone for 100 years and then you found out they were shacking up with Harry Dresden... Ouch.
    * So, Harry's got his very own evil island now... Maybe next volume we can get Harry Dresden vs. The Slutty Summer Camp.

    I wonder if Murphy and Harry realize they might as well make their relationship formal, since they're totally serious about each other anyway. Also, their scenes together are a good example of something that early-series Butcher just wasn't capable of - emotionally intimate writing.
    A friend of mine was saying how much she loved the audiobooks, so I've got book 12 on mp3, so it'll take a bit longer to get through. Probably listen and restart yet another game of baldur's gate 2.

    History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote:
    That's the last good audiobook. :(

    Heh, yeah, that's also what she said.

    History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    lawl
    “Harry’s the new Winter Knight!” Toot-toot burbled. “Which is fantastic! The old Winter Knight mostly just sat around getting tortured. He never went on adventures or anything.” He paused and added, “Unless you count going crazy, I guess.”

    History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.
    Roman
  • Nova_CNova_C Witness me! Shiny and ChromeRegistered User regular
    My favorite line in the entire series is in Changes:
    "So. Queen Mab. You tapped that ass. Presumably, it was phat."

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  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote:
    Nova_C wrote:
    My favorite line in the entire series is in Changes:
    "So. Queen Mab. You tapped that ass. Presumably, it was phat."
    Ramirez, I believe?

    Sanya.

  • MahnmutMahnmut Registered User regular
    I just finished Ghost Story. Arise, thread!
    I'm not convinced that "the parasite" mentioned at the end is Lash, like someone speculated a few pages back; the IV plant seems like it would qualify. But I do think we'll be seeing Lash again. I actually thought that we'd be seeing her sooner -- in Changes (and/or Proven Guilty?) Harry was suffering from terrible headaches that were reportedly getting worse, even though they mostly fell off the map as the action heated up. I was sure those headaches were Lash putting herself back together. Since I didn't notice any explanation (?) maybe that will still turn out to be the case.

    Speaking of fallen angels, though, was Uriel suggesting that the FA who sent Harry off towards suicide was Lashiel? She'd have to have communicated with Lash in order to "know" Harry. Or I guess it could have been Lash straight-up, though she isn't literally a fallen angel. And it being Lash would be another reasonable way to interpret the JB comment that she was mentioned in Ghost Story, but not by name.

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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    Audio version of 13 is fine. Not the same but not bad either.

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  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Mahnmut wrote:
    I just finished Ghost Story. Arise, thread!
    I'm not convinced that "the parasite" mentioned at the end is Lash, like someone speculated a few pages back; the IV plant seems like it would qualify. But I do think we'll be seeing Lash again. I actually thought that we'd be seeing her sooner -- in Changes (and/or Proven Guilty?) Harry was suffering from terrible headaches that were reportedly getting worse, even though they mostly fell off the map as the action heated up. I was sure those headaches were Lash putting herself back together. Since I didn't notice any explanation (?) maybe that will still turn out to be the case.

    Speaking of fallen angels, though, was Uriel suggesting that the FA who sent Harry off towards suicide was Lashiel? She'd have to have communicated with Lash in order to "know" Harry. Or I guess it could have been Lash straight-up, though she isn't literally a fallen angel. And it being Lash would be another reasonable way to interpret the JB comment that she was mentioned in Ghost Story, but not by name.

    I thought the implication was that
    the fallen angel was NOT one of the Denarians, but a real, full power and untrapped demon who was breaking the rules to take action against Harry (which is why Uriel could retaliate).

    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
  • LochielLochiel Registered User regular
    I thought the implication was that
    the fallen angel was NOT one of the Denarians, but a real, full power and untrapped demon who was breaking the rules to take action against Harry (which is why Uriel could retaliate).

    I always thought that the implication was that
    the nickleheads could convince people to take action, but they were prevented from coercing them. Choice and Intent are big things for the White God (Wielding a Sword of the Cross to kill nasties? Sure, of course. Unless your doing it for the wrong reason). Because Lash/Lashiel coerced Harry, she removed his choice from the matter.

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Lochiel wrote:
    I thought the implication was that
    the fallen angel was NOT one of the Denarians, but a real, full power and untrapped demon who was breaking the rules to take action against Harry (which is why Uriel could retaliate).

    I always thought that the implication was that
    the nickleheads could convince people to take action, but they were prevented from coercing them. Choice and Intent are big things for the White God (Wielding a Sword of the Cross to kill nasties? Sure, of course. Unless your doing it for the wrong reason). Because Lash/Lashiel coerced Harry, she removed his choice from the matter.
    The instant replay that Uriel gave us suggested that the fallen one was in the room with Harry. I doubt one of the Denarians could not only leave its sheckel but manifest in the church of all places. Even if she's reconstituting herself, Lash was only in Harry's head, and couldn't force him to do anything, even at her most powerful. I just don't think this is a nickelhead. The ante has gone way up since the days when Harry was going toe to toe with Nicakdemus and company.

    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    On coercion:
    I flat out took it to mean that either Lucifer or one of his major lieutenants were directly influencing Harry. There have been a few hints that the literal devil was a player in the game, so it seemed to me that this was a first strike from the actual agents of Hell.

    Also worth noting here that it doesn't look like Lashiel or Nickodemous are directly work for Lucifer. They all seem to be free agents working on their own plans, which would make the way the Black Council has split the coin-bearers' allegiances.

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Off the top of my head, I think he hints that the Denarian was female and that she was familiar with exactly when to hit Harry with just the right thought. And that she's very practiced at that kind of thing.

    Which really points big giant glowing arrows directly at Lashiel. Though Butcher was probably being purposefully vague so he can asspull later down the line if he decides to do something else. Butcher likes multiple-choice foreshadowing.

    Kana on
    History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    Lochiel wrote:
    I thought the implication was that
    the fallen angel was NOT one of the Denarians, but a real, full power and untrapped demon who was breaking the rules to take action against Harry (which is why Uriel could retaliate).

    I always thought that the implication was that
    the nickleheads could convince people to take action, but they were prevented from coercing them. Choice and Intent are big things for the White God (Wielding a Sword of the Cross to kill nasties? Sure, of course. Unless your doing it for the wrong reason). Because Lash/Lashiel coerced Harry, she removed his choice from the matter.
    The instant replay that Uriel gave us suggested that the fallen one was in the room with Harry. I doubt one of the Denarians could not only leave its sheckel but manifest in the church of all places. Even if she's reconstituting herself, Lash was only in Harry's head, and couldn't force him to do anything, even at her most powerful. I just don't think this is a nickelhead. The ante has gone way up since the days when Harry was going toe to toe with Nicakdemus and company.

    I just relistened to Dead Beat and Lash basically:
    convinced him to jump out a window to prove that if she wanted to she could easily kill him.

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  • LochielLochiel Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Lochiel wrote:
    I thought the implication was that
    the fallen angel was NOT one of the Denarians, but a real, full power and untrapped demon who was breaking the rules to take action against Harry (which is why Uriel could retaliate).

    I always thought that the implication was that
    the nickleheads could convince people to take action, but they were prevented from coercing them. Choice and Intent are big things for the White God (Wielding a Sword of the Cross to kill nasties? Sure, of course. Unless your doing it for the wrong reason). Because Lash/Lashiel coerced Harry, she removed his choice from the matter.
    The instant replay that Uriel gave us suggested that the fallen one was in the room with Harry. I doubt one of the Denarians could not only leave its sheckel but manifest in the church of all places. Even if she's reconstituting herself, Lash was only in Harry's head, and couldn't force him to do anything, even at her most powerful. I just don't think this is a nickelhead. The ante has gone way up since the days when Harry was going toe to toe with Nicakdemus and company.

    I just relistened to Dead Beat and Lash basically:
    convinced him to jump out a window to prove that if she wanted to she could easily kill him.

    What Lash really did was
    convince Dresden she could easily kill him if she wanted too; regardless if that was true or not. The gun doesn't have to be loaded, you just have to convince the bank teller that the gun is loaded.

    But Dracomicron makes good points I hadn't considered before. I'm no longer certain it was Lashiel.

    Lochiel on
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    any interesting updates?

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  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    any interesting updates?

    Butcher is still working on Cold Days it seems. And there are some more short stories coming down the pipe as well. Other than that, no real updates. I check his site periodically so I can put up when Cold Days gets a release date.

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  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    I hope it is soon. I might have to get around to running the RPG if Dresden-withdrawal continues like this. (The city: Miami. Think Burn Notice, Miami Vice and Dexter, but with Wizards...)

  • frogurtfrogurt Registered User regular
    It's funny, Butcher released a new Dresden book every year for more than a decade right until I got into the series. The idea of having to wait an additional 6 months or so for the next one to come out is painful.

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    Lochiel
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    So it's YOUR fault, Frogurt. You goose! :P

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    This thread reminds me though that I tried watching the TV show on Netflix sometime in late winter or early spring and that I couldn't even get past two episodes. Hell I couldn't watch a single one without falling asleep!

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    Lochiel
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    This thread reminds me though that I tried watching the TV show on Netflix sometime in late winter or early spring and that I couldn't even get past two episodes. Hell I couldn't watch a single one without falling asleep!

    The only good thing about that show is the fact that they were what introduced me to the books in the first place (though I remember seeing someone reading Fool Moon at an SCA meeting back when it was fairly new-ish.)

    Thinking back to them though, kinda wished the show lasted long enough to get thier take on Michael Carpenter (and his family) and the nickelheads... though maybe it's a good thing it didn't.

    Foefaller on
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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    This thread reminds me though that I tried watching the TV show on Netflix sometime in late winter or early spring and that I couldn't even get past two episodes. Hell I couldn't watch a single one without falling asleep!

    I haven't watched the show but didn't they severely alter the mythology and some characters, like Bianca, to be more mediocre?

  • Delta AssaultDelta Assault Registered User regular
    I thought this thread was about a forum poster named Harry Dresden.

  • HawkstoneHawkstone The state of intoxicationRegistered User regular
    Yeah it pretty much changed things at random too. I am usually pretty tolerant of changes that makes sense when changing medium or for budget...but they changed things of no apparent reason and often for the worse.

    Inside of a dog...it's too dark to read.
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    frogurt wrote: »
    It's funny, Butcher released a new Dresden book every year for more than a decade right until I got into the series. The idea of having to wait an additional 6 months or so for the next one to come out is painful.

    I think that Butcher is suffering from some fatigue now that his series is so popular. Several years ago when I first read he had planned out 20 books I thought that was a little...excessive?


    He's got the major storylines all in play. And I don't think he needs another, seven books to tie everything up.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    frogurt wrote: »
    It's funny, Butcher released a new Dresden book every year for more than a decade right until I got into the series. The idea of having to wait an additional 6 months or so for the next one to come out is painful.

    I think that Butcher is suffering from some fatigue now that his series is so popular. Several years ago when I first read he had planned out 20 books I thought that was a little...excessive?


    He's got the major storylines all in play. And I don't think he needs another, seven books to tie everything up.

    20 is a lot, but it isn't uncommon for long running series to run for a long time. Honor Harrington is about to have its 14th book published, the Vorkosigan Saga is on its 28th and Discworld has finished on its 39th.

  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    frogurt wrote: »
    It's funny, Butcher released a new Dresden book every year for more than a decade right until I got into the series. The idea of having to wait an additional 6 months or so for the next one to come out is painful.

    I think that Butcher is suffering from some fatigue now that his series is so popular. Several years ago when I first read he had planned out 20 books I thought that was a little...excessive?

    He's got the major storylines all in play. And I don't think he needs another, seven books to tie everything up.
    23ish according to the FAQ on his site, the last three forming a three part apocalyptic trilogy.

    I don't know if it's fatigue, or just that he's got so much more crap to keep track of when writing a Dresden book. The current books are also a lot better written then the earlier ones in the series (let's be honest here, the first books were pretty hard to get through). Between the higher quality of writing and the drastically increased cast, it makes sense they'd take longer to write. I mean, in the first books he had what, 3 or 4 characters to track? It's not easy to write a novel, even if you've got a fairly limited cast that is at the center of everything, sure you had hints of larger things happening but that was background information.
    Now, you've got multiple groups of vampires, good wizards, bad wizards, summer fey, winter fey, unaligned fey, cops who don't know what's going, cops who do know what's going on, werewolves, demons, organized crime bosses, Norse gods, other gods, the church, a sentient island, ghosts, really the list could go on... And any or all of them are equally likely to show up at nearly any time. It's a lot of crap to keep track of, and Butcher doesn't seem likely to go all GRRM on his cast and kill them off (Red Vampires excepted), even if it would help him to thin the herd a bit.

    Also, wow, it's only been a year since Ghost Story was released? It feels like it's been longer then that.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime "All too easy..." Registered User regular
    When the next book comes out I will probably switch back to my Dresden avatar. It's been out of service for a while.

    This neo-feudalism would be more tolerable if our betters had fancy titles.
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  • qwer12qwer12 Registered User regular
    This thread popped up and I thought, "Oh, is the new Dresden book out? Sweet!" You guys are mean for raising my hopes like that :(

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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    This thread reminds me though that I tried watching the TV show on Netflix sometime in late winter or early spring and that I couldn't even get past two episodes. Hell I couldn't watch a single one without falling asleep!

    The only good thing about that show is the fact that they were what introduced me to the books in the first place (though I remember seeing someone reading Fool Moon at an SCA meeting back when it was fairly new-ish.)

    Thinking back to them though, kinda wished the show lasted long enough to get thier take on Michael Carpenter (and his family) and the nickelheads... though maybe it's a good thing it didn't.

    I saw the show first too, and since I hadn't read the books didn't know what was changed. So that helped it be alright. Upside to it getting killed off I guess, I didn't have time to think of it as the way things should be and then learn how much better it could be. I think they did alright casting Harry at the least.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    I have a shirt left over from the production crew that I got from a friend who works in film and tv. I still haven't bothered with the show, though.

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    frogurt wrote: »
    It's funny, Butcher released a new Dresden book every year for more than a decade right until I got into the series. The idea of having to wait an additional 6 months or so for the next one to come out is painful.

    I think that Butcher is suffering from some fatigue now that his series is so popular. Several years ago when I first read he had planned out 20 books I thought that was a little...excessive?


    He's got the major storylines all in play. And I don't think he needs another, seven books to tie everything up.

    20 is a lot, but it isn't uncommon for long running series to run for a long time. Honor Harrington is about to have its 14th book published, the Vorkosigan Saga is on its 28th and Discworld has finished on its 39th.

    I think you're wildly overcounting on the vorkosigan books. There's been a fair share of novellas and then omnibus rereleases, which you might be accidentally counting.

    And even then some of the Vorkosigan books are stuff like Ethan of Athos or Floating Free which while more or less in the same universe really has nothing to do with any Vorkosigans nor any of the main plots.

    History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.
  • MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    I don't think Butcher's plan for 20ish is too drastic, it's an excellent character and he's really expanded the universe from what it was in Storm Front. Compare it to something like Salvatore's work which really hasn't improved much since he began and he's 23 books into a story mainly based around one character with another 8 based on side characters. I'd much rather another 10-15 Dresden novels over more Drizzt novels if Butcher continues to expand the story as much as he has over the last 3-5 novels alone.

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  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    are we safe for open discussion of ghost story? eh just to be sure
    i think we can safely say that molly may have another premier role in a book after casting off the shackles of harry and being under the watchful eye of godmother. i'm not saying that the next book will do that but it's not hard to imagine that after the winter court stuff gets worked out, or doesn't get worked out, that we will need to have kept up on what's been happening in chicago. i know there's been hints that the whole world is turning to rubbish but i do hope that we keep chicago as the convergence of this crap because of all the nexus points meeting there.

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Definitely looking forward to the next book. I've gotten my girlfriend hooked on the series (she's finishing up Turn Coat) and she checked out the show one day. Apparently the first two episodes left her unimpressed as well, I've never bothered looking.

    Gotten another friend into the books as well, she just wrapped up the third, and hopefully her boyfriend will pick at them as well.

    As for the series; setting up over two decades worth of work for yourself is probably daunting, but if they keep selling as they have, it's not a bad way to ensure yourself an ongoing revenue stream.

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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Pailryder wrote: »
    are we safe for open discussion of ghost story? eh just to be sure
    i think we can safely say that molly may have another premier role in a book after casting off the shackles of harry and being under the watchful eye of godmother. i'm not saying that the next book will do that but it's not hard to imagine that after the winter court stuff gets worked out, or doesn't get worked out, that we will need to have kept up on what's been happening in chicago. i know there's been hints that the whole world is turning to rubbish but i do hope that we keep chicago as the convergence of this crap because of all the nexus points meeting there.

    That's what I'm kind of scared of.
    Harry needs to get back to Chicago, not faff around in the Winter Court for 5 years or whatever. Molly still needs help, but is too strong for anyone willing to actually help give it to her. Everyone needs Harry back in Chicago for that matter. No doubt Molly can stand on her own and will either end up doing so or dead (which 2nd only to Murphy will really annoy me...), but I'd rather be seeing it all from Harry's POV. Molly can take over after the finale. We'll get Harry's POV for sure, just his location needs to be correct. I don't want to wait another year+ for everyone to find out he's not dead.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
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