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A thread about when it's okay for cops to shoot people

HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
edited June 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
Here's a link to the article but I'm going to quote this up.
Arizona's new immigration law is just about crime, its supporters say, but given that the state's new education policy equates ethnic studies programs with high treason, they may not be using the commonly accepted definition of "crime."

Under the ban, sent to Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer by the state legislature Thursday, schools will lose state funding if they offer any courses that "promote the overthrow of the U.S. government, promote resentment of a particular race or class of people, are designed primarily for students of a particular ethnic group or advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals."

As ThinkProgress notes, the Tucson Unified School District's popular Mexican-American studies department is the target here. The state superintendent charges that the program exhibits "ethnic chauvinism."

Meanwhile, in a move that was more covert until the Wall Street Journal uncovered it, the Arizona Department of Education has told schools that teachers with "heavy" or "ungrammatical" accents are no longer allowed to teach English classes.

As outlined by the Journal, Arizona's recent pattern of discriminatory education policies is ironic -- and is likely a function of No Child Left Behind funding requirements -- given that the state spent a decade recruiting teachers for whom English was a second language.
In the 1990s, Arizona hired hundreds of teachers whose first language was Spanish as part of a broad bilingual-education program. Many were recruited from Latin America.

Then in 2000, voters passed a ballot measure stipulating that instruction be offered only in English. Bilingual teachers who had been instructing in Spanish switched to English.

Teachers who don't meet the new fluency standards have the option of taking classes to improve their English, the Journal reports, but if they fail to reach the state's targets would be fired or reassigned.
This is the most goddamn awful thing. What has happened to Arizona's water supply? Something must've slipped in there because Arizona's legislative body is moving quickly toward the fucking weirdest laws ever. First the immigration thing, then the human-animal hybrid outlawing, and now this. Are there medals awarded for this sort of thing? Like some polar opposite to the Nobel prize?

Henroid on
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    durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I said this before but: "Heavy or Ungrammatical English Accents" covers every single person living in Arizona.

    Hell, it covers everyone but the goddamn Queen.

    durandal4532 on
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    krushkrush Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Has Arizona taken the #1 spot for worst state in the union yet???

    If not, this should push them right to the top.

    krush on
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Yeah, against what standard are they measuring accents? Because I have a feeling there's quite a few people in Arizona with southern/western accents.

    KalTorak on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Amurrcan accents, duh. The test consists of someone asking you to say "Turrism."

    Henroid on
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Amurrcan accents, duh. The test consists of someone asking you to say "Turrism."

    Dey turk ur jerbs!

    Burtletoy on
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    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    My theory is that they don't want anybody teaching English in Arizona. Taking English classes turns people into liberal elite communists.

    Taramoor on
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    krushkrush Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    "whey daown waont nao mussi-keeins tuh-chin are keeeids nao ayngleeish!" - Arizona citizen...

    krush on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    krush wrote: »
    Has Arizona taken the #1 spot for worst state in the union yet???

    If not, this should push them right to the top.
    They have quite a ways to go before they hit Florida levels.

    Thanatos on
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    Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Amurrcan accents, duh. The test consists of someone asking you to say "Turrism."

    Official Arizona Grammatical Accent Test:

    "Turrism" refers to:

    a) Radical Muslims blowing up buildings and threatening our way of life.
    b) Retired Canadians spending the winter in Flagstaff.
    c) ¿Que?

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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    Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I don't get why anyone would have problems with any of these laws. Public tax dollars should not be used to fund ethnically-based classes and schoolteachers need to meet minimum standards of English proficiency.

    Seems like Arizona has been on a roll when it comes to passing good laws recently.

    Modern Man on
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    VisionOfClarityVisionOfClarity Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I don't get why anyone would have problems with any of these laws. Public tax dollars should not be used to fund ethnically-based classes and schoolteachers need to meet minimum standards of English proficiency.

    Seems like Arizona has been on a roll when it comes to passing good laws recently.

    Do you feel this way about higher education as well? Quite a few public universities have ethnic and gender studies departments.

    VisionOfClarity on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Thanatos wrote: »
    krush wrote: »
    Has Arizona taken the #1 spot for worst state in the union yet???

    If not, this should push them right to the top.
    They have quite a ways to go before they hit Florida levels.

    I dunno Than in Florida you can't be locked up indefinately in a jail that a third world country would consider inhumane for just being brown.

    I think Zona is the worst little state in the union with this recent bout of dumb.

    Preacher on
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I, too, yearn for a state that one day might be whites-only.

    KalTorak on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    KalTorak wrote: »
    I, too, yearn for a state that one day might be white, christian, heterosexual, boot strappy-only.

    Fixed that to reflect the no true republican.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I also wonder if the no exlcusive ethnic study rule just outlawed black history month? Isn't Arizona one of the states that doesn't celebrate MLK jr?

    Preacher on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Preacher wrote: »
    I also wonder if the no exlcusive ethnic study rule just outlawed black history month? Isn't Arizona one of the states that doesn't celebrate MLK jr?

    They didn't for a long time. Then the Super Bowl was taken away from them one year and they saw the light.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Preacher wrote: »
    I also wonder if the no exlcusive ethnic study rule just outlawed black history month? Isn't Arizona one of the states that doesn't celebrate MLK jr?

    IIRC they refused to celebrate MLK day until the NFL bitchslapped them.

    KalTorak on
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    Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I don't get why anyone would have problems with any of these laws. Public tax dollars should not be used to fund ethnically-based classes and schoolteachers need to meet minimum standards of English proficiency.

    Seems like Arizona has been on a roll when it comes to passing good laws recently.

    Do you feel this way about higher education as well? Quite a few public universities have ethnic and gender studies departments.
    I would be happy to see ethnic and gender studies departments folded away into history, sociology and other such departments. Ethnic and gender studies departments are just havens for academics who couldn't cut it in more rigorous disciplines.

    If private schools want to have ethnically-oriented classes and departments, that's their business. But, publicly-funded schools should not be in the business of providing ethnically-based classes, but should rather be providing an ethnically- and racially-neutral education. Ethnic and racial divisiveness has no place in public schools.

    Modern Man on
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I don't get why anyone would have problems with any of these laws. Public tax dollars should not be used to fund ethnically-based classes and schoolteachers need to meet minimum standards of English proficiency.

    Seems like Arizona has been on a roll when it comes to passing good laws recently.

    Unfortunately having an accent =/= unproficient English.

    Burtletoy on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I don't get why anyone would have problems with any of these laws. Public tax dollars should not be used to fund ethnically-based classes and schoolteachers need to meet minimum standards of English proficiency.

    Seems like Arizona has been on a roll when it comes to passing good laws recently.

    Do you feel this way about higher education as well? Quite a few public universities have ethnic and gender studies departments.
    I would be happy to see ethnic and gender studies departments folded away into history, sociology and other such departments. Ethnic and gender studies departments are just havens for academics who couldn't cut it in more rigorous disciplines.

    If private schools want to have ethnically-oriented classes and departments, that's their business. But, publicly-funded schools should not be in the business of providing ethnically-based classes, but should rather be providing an ethnically- and racially-neutral education. Ethnic and racial divisiveness has no place in public schools.

    You have a really crappy understanding (surprise!) of what those departments are about. Describing and attempting to explain the causes of historic inequities is only divisive if you're an asshole who thinks those inequities are proper.

    enlightenedbum on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Preacher wrote: »
    I also wonder if the no exlcusive ethnic study rule just outlawed black history month? Isn't Arizona one of the states that doesn't celebrate MLK jr?

    They didn't for a long time. Then the Super Bowl was taken away from them one year and they saw the light.

    Wait, there's states that don't observe MLK Jr. Day?

    Henroid on
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    But, publicly-funded schools should not be in the business of providing ethnically-based classes, but should rather be providing an ethnically- and racially-neutral education.

    Again, unfortunately, this is not the way the white heteronormative society teaches in schools. Yes, I am saying that schools are pro-white education, so adding in some racial diversity actually brings curriculum closer to what you are proposing.

    Burtletoy on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I also wonder if the no exlcusive ethnic study rule just outlawed black history month? Isn't Arizona one of the states that doesn't celebrate MLK jr?

    They didn't for a long time. Then the Super Bowl was taken away from them one year and they saw the light.

    Wait, there's states that don't observe MLK Jr. Day?

    I think they all do now. A bunch of them (guess which!) merge it with celebrations of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson's birthdays...

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Hell, it covers everyone but the goddamn Queen.

    This is the first step to the colonies being retaken. Queenie is coming to teach your children how to talk!

    surrealitycheck on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I don't get why anyone would have problems with any of these laws. Public tax dollars should not be used to fund ethnically-based classes and schoolteachers need to meet minimum standards of English proficiency.

    Seems like Arizona has been on a roll when it comes to passing good laws recently.

    Do you feel this way about higher education as well? Quite a few public universities have ethnic and gender studies departments.
    I would be happy to see ethnic and gender studies departments folded away into history, sociology and other such departments. Ethnic and gender studies departments are just havens for academics who couldn't cut it in more rigorous disciplines.

    If private schools want to have ethnically-oriented classes and departments, that's their business. But, publicly-funded schools should not be in the business of providing ethnically-based classes, but should rather be providing an ethnically- and racially-neutral education. Ethnic and racial divisiveness has no place in public schools.

    I agree. So lets fold up history and english, since those are completely ethnic studies classes. It just happens to be that the ethnicity they study is Western European.

    Sentry on
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    tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I also wonder if the no exlcusive ethnic study rule just outlawed black history month? Isn't Arizona one of the states that doesn't celebrate MLK jr?

    They didn't for a long time. Then the Super Bowl was taken away from them one year and they saw the light.

    Wait, there's states that don't observe MLK Jr. Day?

    Very few, then again 'observe' is basically a free day of vacation, so I could see even really racist city workers not having a problem with it.

    tinwhiskers on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I also wonder if the no exlcusive ethnic study rule just outlawed black history month? Isn't Arizona one of the states that doesn't celebrate MLK jr?

    They didn't for a long time. Then the Super Bowl was taken away from them one year and they saw the light.

    Wait, there's states that don't observe MLK Jr. Day?

    Very few, then again 'observe' is basically a free day of vacation, so I could see even really racist city workers not having a problem with it.

    Well no one turns down a day off, still arizona also doesn't recognize day light savings time. It's like the land of the lost.

    Preacher on
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    Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    You have a really crappy understanding (surprise!) of what those departments are about. Describing and attempting to explain the causes of historic inequities is only divisive if you're an asshole who thinks those inequities are proper.
    There's nothing preventing an academic in history, sociology or other departments from working on issues of historic inequities. However, ethnic/gender studies departments were set up as a sort of echo chamber where the more rigorous expectations present in more traditional academia were replaced by an environment where you got ahead by toeing the radical left-wing line on history, economics, sociology and the like. Academically, they're of such marginal usefulness that no one outside of the departments would miss them if they were gone.

    You can summarize ethnic/gender studies pretty easily- everyone who is a member of the ethnicity/gender being studied=good, everyone else=bad.
    Sentry wrote: »
    I agree. So lets fold up history and english, since those are completely ethnic studies classes. It just happens to be that the ethnicity they study is Western European.
    English departments don't study English ethnicity. They study the English language. You know, the language spoken by the vast majority of people in this country. And, I don't know what history classes you took, but every school I went to, whether primary, secondary or university, taught much more than Western European history.

    Modern Man on
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    You can summarize general high school history studies pretty easily- everyone who is a white American/Chris Columbus=good, everyone else=bad.

    KalTorak on
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    ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    You really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to those studies do you?

    ronzo on
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    Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    You can summarize general high school history studies pretty easily- everyone who is a white American/Chris Columbus=good, everyone else=bad.
    For a while now, it's kind of been the opposite in American schools.
    ronzo wrote: »
    You really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to those studies do you?
    If ethnic/gender studies disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, the effects on academia would be completely positive. Any academics or students in those departments who could cut it in a real discipline could do so. The rest can stop wasting their lives spewing meaningless jargon.

    Modern Man on
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    You can summarize general high school history studies pretty easily- everyone who is a white American/Chris Columbus=good, everyone else=bad.
    For a while now, it's kind of been the opposite in American schools.
    ronzo wrote: »
    You really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to those studies do you?
    If ethnic/gender studies disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, the effects on academia would be completely positive. Any academics or students in those departments who could cut it in a real discipline could do so. The rest can stop wasting their lives spewing meaningless jargon.

    Does that include classes like Eurpoean Civilization? Cause that is an ethnic studies class.

    How about Eastern Religions?

    How about you are simply trolling people that like topics that you, for whatever reason, dislike?

    Burtletoy on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    I agree. So lets fold up history and english, since those are completely ethnic studies classes. It just happens to be that the ethnicity they study is Western European.
    English departments don't study English ethnicity. They study the English language. You know, the language spoken by the vast majority of people in this country. And, I don't know what history classes you took, but every school I went to, whether primary, secondary or university, taught much more than Western European history.

    Look, I know you probably went to a special school where you spent a lot of time learning how to be the silliest goose in all the land, but every English I've ever taken also required you to... you know... READ something on occasion. And seeing how multi-faceted and diverse you are, I'm sure that your books were by authors from every nationality... but in the bulk of schools, the books you read are by white males from Western Europe, Ancient Rome, or the good old US of A...

    Sentry on
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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    And seeing how multi-faceted and diverse you are, I'm sure that your books were by authors from every nationality... but in the bulk of schools, the books you read are by white males from Western Europe, Ancient Rome, or the good old US of A...

    To be fair that's where the vast majority of books are from.

    surrealitycheck on
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    SpoonySpoony Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    You can summarize general high school history studies pretty easily- everyone who is a white American/Chris Columbus=good, everyone else=bad.
    For a while now, it's kind of been the opposite in American schools.
    ronzo wrote: »
    You really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to those studies do you?
    If ethnic/gender studies disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, the effects on academia would be completely positive. Any academics or students in those departments who could cut it in a real discipline could do so. The rest can stop wasting their lives spewing meaningless jargon.

    To the first part, not really. At best, we no longer give Columbus a free pass and actually talk about how what happened to the Indians was a dick thing to do. Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson and pretty much every writer you're required to read is white and probably a dude. You still get the token Marie Curie and MLK Jr., but the mentions really do smack of "we need to get a chick and a black on that list."

    As to the second, I suspect that the effects on academia would be negligible. Ethnic and gender studies departments tend to be small and carry few students who major it them. Actually, a number of colleges have had to cut women's studies programs out because of budget cuts so they've either been shrunk or folded into sociology departments.

    Spoony on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    And seeing how multi-faceted and diverse you are, I'm sure that your books were by authors from every nationality... but in the bulk of schools, the books you read are by white males from Western Europe, Ancient Rome, or the good old US of A...

    To be fair that's where the vast majority of books are from.

    I don't know how to respond to this other then to say no, not really.

    That is where the vast majority of books that are taught in school are from.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I don't know how to respond to this other then to say no, not really.

    That is where the vast majority of books that are taught in school are from.

    Numberswise, pretty much yeah they are.

    The main notable exclusion is books from the Golden Age of Islam.

    surrealitycheck on
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    DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Can we just have a Shittiest State thread instead of all these individual ones? I mean, they're all competing so hard...

    Delzhand on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I don't know how to respond to this other then to say no, not really.

    That is where the vast majority of books that are taught in school are from.

    Numberswise, pretty much yeah they are.

    The main notable exclusion is books from the Golden Age of Islam.

    I guess it would depend on what you consider a "book."

    Regardless, the ratio is completely out of whack and in no way representative of different cultures contributions and impact on literature. Not by a long shot.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Regardless, the ratio is completely out of whack and in no way representative of different cultures contributions and impact on literature. Not by a long shot.

    I mean there's a more basic lurking problem.

    If you want the literature of the Maya and South American civilisations, the Spanish purged it.
    If you want the literature of the North Americans before colonisation, no luck there.
    The vast majority of Africa wrote no books until relatively recently.

    If you are thinking of books qua books, most cultures leave us nothing to work with (certainly from a literary historical perspective). There's definitely an argument for throwing a bit of Chinese lit in there, especially from the Yuan period, but its direct relevance to Western literature is relatively moot.

    This is probably an argument for throwing in discussions of other fictions (including verbal myths), but I'm not sure the actual reading lists are as skewed as one might expect.

    surrealitycheck on
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