Seriously by your logic I should be like man Florida sucks for the 2000 election, they are to blame for 8 years of Bush! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FLORIDA! lol
Isn't that pretty much what everyone did?
Yeah but it doesn't make it any less stupid. My issue with comments about Lousiana being in bed with the oil industry and them therefore being to blame for any possible bad effect is that the ENTIRE nation is in bed with the oil industry.
Yes. It's true that many of the rank and file employees that work offshore are based in Louisiana, but it's hard for me to muster much anger at Louisiana specifically. I don't know where all the oil and gas money goes, but ultimately I don't think very much of it ends up in Louisiana.
Seriously by your logic I should be like man Florida sucks for the 2000 election, they are to blame for 8 years of Bush! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FLORIDA! lol
Isn't that pretty much what everyone did?
Yeah but it doesn't make it any less stupid. My issue with comments about Lousiana being in bed with the oil industry and them therefore being to blame for any possible bad effect is that the ENTIRE nation is in bed with the oil industry.
Yes. It's true that many of the rank and file employees that work offshore are based in Louisiana, but it's hard for me to muster much anger at Louisiana specifically. I don't know where all the oil and gas money goes, but ultimately I don't think very much of it ends up in Louisiana.
For some reason the portion of tax money from oil drilled in the state was always a fraction of what other states (Texas) got, with the difference going to the Feds. Its one of the things Senator Liandreu has been arguing for for years, one of the few things I actually agree with her on. I think Louisiana finially started getting a higher percentage of the money a couple of years ago, but I dont know if its on par with other states yet.
I dont think the state actually has that much authority over these types of rigs, its the feds that suppose to regulate them and make sure they have responce plans in place. I always remember that its not Florida stat government that decieded there was no drilling off their coast, just that their delagation in crongress in strong enough to get any provesion opening up the area to drilling removed or block from bills in congress.
So apparently a lot of people in Louisiana are upset about the moratorium. As a resident of Florida, which is having to deal with this bullshit despite not having offshore drilling, let me extend a warm fuck you to anyone who thinks those goddamned oil jobs are more important than safety and the environment. I hope the oil companies make good on their threats to leave the gulf. Maybe we can take those stupid oil subsidies and invest them in renewable energy sources instead.
Yeah, right back buddy. Easy to say that those jobs don't matter as much, when a lot of your local economy isn't based off those jobs. Cause everyone knows that Lousiana has so many other sources of income. And no sir Katrina didn't almost kill New Orleans already. But as long as Florida is not affected, no problem!
It couldn't be too much to ask that if you are going to just say shut down a good portion of a state's economy you provide some other form for people to make money. RIGHT? Oh I forgot we are the state everyone else comes to party in because of New Orleans, and loves our food and down home flavor! MMMM No real industry for Lousiana. But as long as Florida is not affected, no problem!
It's not like real people who were already living paycheck to paycheck can't feed their family right now, oh wait it is! It's not like our political system is so fucked and corruption is so deep that when I was young the choice for governor was between a crook (Edwin Edwards) and a former KKK member (David Duke), so our local government can fix all this right? Its not like if there were 2 major disasters (one natural and one man made) within 5 years of each other maybe the federal government could do like a Tennessee Valley Authority style project for our wetlands or I don't know encourage business to move here, isntead of encouraging Lousiana to die a slow death. But hey ! A good portion of our economy can be shut down, as long as Florida is not affected. No problem!
It's not like it is incredbily calous to for the federal government to not allow Lousiana to keep some of that Oil Money over the last 40 years, instead of saying only the federal government can get to it. It's not like our residents can actually vote for their interests instead of supporting a sentor who is family values but sees hookers, and is being held back by a party that cares nothing for Lousiana besides being a solid republican state.
Its not like the decision to put a moritorium on drilling (which i support but dont think it deserves a fuck you) is a lot more complex and complicated than to deserve some person boiling down the entire issue to " warm fuck you to anyone who thinks those goddamned oil jobs are more important than safety and the environment. I hope the oil companies make good on their threats to leave the gulf. Maybe we can take those stupid oil subsidies and invest them in renewable energy sources instead." Its not like that if you are going to say that how bout you support placing those renewable energy sources where the old jobs used to be. Its not like other more important policitcally states, such as Florida, Iowa, New Hampshire, Mass., Texas, will get these jobs anyway and the state I love and have seen go through so much will be left to languish and be the set of fucking true blood, Mardi Gras, and down home cooking, mmm, mmm!
Seriously though, fuck you guys. A huge portion of our economy is being affected by a fuck up from an industry that you guys not only allow, but happily and heartily welcome and defend being off your coasts. Thanks a lot for that.
EDIT: Oh, and cry me a goddamned river. You guys decided to get in bed with the oil companies and seem pretty happy about it. Don't bitch to me because you actually have to suffer consequences for doing that. It galls me that we have to suffer too.
Yeah because I am sure you drive a car or use a bus that doesn't require gas. Oh and all those plastics in your home sure don't require oil. Like at all. Yeah because the only way to get in bed with the oil company is to have off shore rigs.
I call bullshit. If drilling in the gulf stopped, we'd still be able to get oil from elsewhere. I'm happy to pay a premium to get oil from somewhere that doesn't put the American shoreline at risk. And it sure as fuck has been at risk for decades now because the oil companies put profits over safety.
I didn't say I disagreed with the moritorium I just said it is more complex than deserving a fuck you,but hey if that is the level of your analysis go with it. Whatever makes you feel better. If you can take this issue and distill it down to Lousiana had oil rigs , therefore they deserve all this and are the source of my pristine florida beaches being dirty = fuck them, fine go with it. That just appears to be your level of discouse. That is sure something to aspire too.
The fuck you is aimed squarely at people bitching about the moratorium because they think the jobs are more important than anything else. It's especially bullshit to hear that from people who are also bitching about the impact of the oil spill. And I think that Floridians have a right to be pissed off at this attitude that protecting the damned oil jobs is more important than taking the time to address safety, seeing as many people in Florida make their livelihoods on having beaches that aren't being fucked up by oil. You guys profited from your relationship with oil companies, now have fun with the downside of that relationship.
Is there evidence the problems are endemic to the entire industry, or to BP specifically? BP isn't the only company drilling in the Gulf, you also have Exxon, Shell, and dozens of independents. They're being punished for BP's mistakes. When Exxon Valdez happened, there wasn't a blanket ban on all oil tankers. If Tyson releases salmonella-ridden chicken, we don't shut down Foster Farms too.
If Tyson released superAIDS, I would expect use to shut down Foster Farms too to make sure that Foster Farms won't also release superAIDS as a result of possible similar problems.
I'd expect Foster Farms to be shut down if it could be shown Foster Farms was doing something wrong, not just because they're in the same industry. That kind of knee-jerk guilt by association is part of why we're drilling for so much oil today, because Three Mile Island and Hollywood have led to blanket bans on nuclear power. Instead of actually looking at what went wrong at Three Mile, states just decided nuclear=bad! and called it a day.
And in the Gulf, the government's moratorium was in name only. The Obama administration didn't do the equivalent of shutting down Foster (Exxon, Shell, etc) - heck, they didn't even do the equivalent of shutting down Tyson (BP). BP still has wells operating all over the Gulf, including one that ought to be shut down, or at least temporarily suspended, in the Atlantis rig.
Haley Barbour & Co are just playing politics, the "moratorium" gives them a scapegoat to direct public anger at. In reality very few wells have been shut down. There's a lot more economic damage being done by the closing of fishing grounds, but fish in those areas might not be commercially viable now anyways.
Christ, is there anyone competent at DOI these days? Reading that ruling is ridiculous.
Much to the government’s discomfort and this Court’s uneasiness, the Summary also states that “the recommendations contained in this report have been peer-reviewed by seven experts identified by the National Academy of Engineering.” As the plaintiffs, and the experts themselves, pointedly observe, this statement was
misleading. The experts charge it was a “misrepresentation.” It was factually incorrect. Although the experts agreed with the safety recommendations contained in the body of the main Report, five of the National Academy experts and three of the other experts have publicly stated that they “do not agree with the six month blanket moratorium” on floating drilling. They envisioned a more limited kind of moratorium, but a blanket moratorium was added after their final review, they complain, and was never agreed to by them. A
factor that might cause some apprehension about the probity of the process that led to the Report.
The draft reviewed by the experts, for example, recommended a six-month moratorium on exploratory wells deeper than 1000 feet (not 500 feet) to allow for implementation of suggested safety measures.
The Report makes no effort to explicitly justify the moratorium: it does not discuss any irreparable harm that would warrant a suspension of operations, it does not explain how long it would take to implement the recommended safety measures.
Lionel Hutz could have won this one for the anti-moratorium side.
The moratorium was on exploratory drilling, so wells that are already pumping oil can continue to operate. The exploratory drilling really needs to stop until a) an assessment of what should be the baseline safety procedures and equipment is completed, b) each of the existing exploratory platforms are certified as being in compliance and c) we get a real department in Interior to oversee this shit and treats safety and inspections of oil platforms like the IAEA and UN treats Iran's nuclear facilities. Beyond that, I'd like for the government to compel the oil drilling companies to develop new safety and containment technology.
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
I don't think the judge understands the economic impact that is hitting people in his state as a result of drilling. More power to him though for standing up to the man, or whatever.
Ten bucks it's discovered he 1) has some sort of investment or payment from oil companies or 2) think Obama was born outside the USA.
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BarcardiAll the WizardsUnder A Rock: AfganistanRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
Why are the gulf coast people so adamant about starting up just 33 rigs drilling again? Do they need a hurricane to hit and dump oil inland where they live before they change their minds?
Seriously, it is like a addict in the ER asking for some more heroin to ease the pain.
I'd expect Foster Farms to be shut down if it could be shown Foster Farms was doing something wrong, not just because they're in the same industry.
Considering that the companies have had to do shit to follow the regulations under the Bush administration, Foster Farms could have superAIDS makers and still be doing nothing technically wrong in this analogy. Because the issues giving rise to this problem are industry wide, I don't see the problem with a blanket ban until it can actually be sorted out. It isn't different from a quarantine.
I don't think the judge understands the economic impact that is hitting people in his state as a result of drilling. More power to him though for standing up to the man, or whatever.
Ten bucks it's discovered he 1) has some sort of investment or payment from oil companies or 2) think Obama was born outside the USA.
I don't think the judge understands the economic impact that is hitting people in his state as a result of drilling. More power to him though for standing up to the man, or whatever.
Ten bucks it's discovered he 1) has some sort of investment or payment from oil companies or 2) think Obama was born outside the USA.
I don't think the judge understands the economic impact that is hitting people in his state as a result of drilling. More power to him though for standing up to the man, or whatever.
Ten bucks it's discovered he 1) has some sort of investment or payment from oil companies or 2) think Obama was born outside the USA.
I'm not sure why the injunction was implemented to begin with. Preliminary injunctions are only supposed to be used when allowing the action, in this case enforcing the moratorium, will result in permanent damages that can't later be made whole through a financial remedy. Basically the action has to cause some lasting harm that can't be made up for later by writing a check.
It would seem to me that "the moratorium is causing us to lose revenue" falls well within a harm that can be later remedied through monetary compensation, if necessary. Thus, there is no cause to pre-emptively block the moratorium. If it's later determined that the government is liable for lost revenues, the government can make those parties whole by cutting them a check.
Though I still think the government did a crappy job on their report, I'm not seeing where the anti-moratorium side has standing to argue for the injunction against the moratorium.
I don't think the judge understands the economic impact that is hitting people in his state as a result of drilling. More power to him though for standing up to the man, or whatever.
Ten bucks it's discovered he 1) has some sort of investment or payment from oil companies or 2) think Obama was born outside the USA.
Wait, so the guy has between $15,004 and $110,000 of his money invested in oil related stocks. I'm a 25 year old grad student making less than 20K a year, and I have more money invested in petrochemicals than 15K.
Looking through the actual forms linked to in the article, I see energy companies, banks, General electric, insurance companies, comminication companies. My god..... a some what diversified set of investments, well obviously he must have a politcal agenda.
Wait, so the guy has between $15,004 and $110,000 of his money invested in oil related stocks. I'm a 25 year old grad student making less than 20K a year, and I have more money invested in petrochemicals than 15K.
Looking through the actual forms linked to in the article, I see energy companies, banks, General electric, insurance companies, comminication companies. My god..... a some what diversified set of investments, well obviously he must have a politcal agenda.
How the hell does a student working part time have 15 grand in the bank, let alone specifically invested in oil companies?
Wait, so the guy has between $15,004 and $110,000 of his money invested in oil related stocks. I'm a 25 year old grad student making less than 20K a year, and I have more money invested in petrochemicals than 15K.
Looking through the actual forms linked to in the article, I see energy companies, banks, General electric, insurance companies, comminication companies. My god..... a some what diversified set of investments, well obviously he must have a politcal agenda.
How the hell does a student working part time have 15 grand in the bank, let alone specifically invested in oil companies?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that his living arrangement is subsidized in a pretty substantial way.
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Wait, so the guy has between $15,004 and $110,000 of his money invested in oil related stocks. I'm a 25 year old grad student making less than 20K a year, and I have more money invested in petrochemicals than 15K.
Looking through the actual forms linked to in the article, I see energy companies, banks, General electric, insurance companies, comminication companies. My god..... a some what diversified set of investments, well obviously he must have a politcal agenda.
How the hell does a student working part time have 15 grand in the bank, let alone specifically invested in oil companies?
Wait, so the guy has between $15,004 and $110,000 of his money invested in oil related stocks. I'm a 25 year old grad student making less than 20K a year, and I have more money invested in petrochemicals than 15K.
Looking through the actual forms linked to in the article, I see energy companies, banks, General electric, insurance companies, comminication companies. My god..... a some what diversified set of investments, well obviously he must have a politcal agenda.
How the hell does a student working part time have 15 grand in the bank, let alone specifically invested in oil companies?
Bootstraps!
Um maybe a scholarship and/or internship. Also maybe prior work experiecne before going back to grad school?
I turned down a half tuition scholarship at Tulane for a free ride at LSU. I would have gone into major debt if I went to Tulane and had to move to New Orleans (considering this was '03 i doged a bullet not going). I had a small college fund from my grandparents, not enough to pay for even half a year at Tulane by any means. So I stayed in Baton Rouge, kept the money and have been dumping any extra cash I made over the last few years into the accounts. I already had several thousand saved from work I did in while still in high school, basically had one job or another since I turned 16. Worked all thorugh undergrad too even though i didnt have to, most of my friends with similar scholarships didnt. Rents not exactly expensive in Baton Rouge generally. Most of my furnature came from cleaning the old junk out of family members attics. Car was old one that wasn't worth bothering to trade in when someone in the family got a new car so i got it. Grad school tuition is cheap here. Hell, Obama seems to think I needed a tax refund three times bigger than what I paid in taxes last year, not sure why, so that got invested too.
Since most of my family are engineers or chemical engineers and worked in several plants across texas, LA, alabama over the years, much of the money was invested in various chemical and oil companies when I got it. They all make me money so I never bothered to change the setup too much.
Can't congress like, put a temporary tax on exploratory drilling or something?
OH right... congress...
They couldn't pass a bill declaring puppies cute in less than 18 months
Well if the Democrats declare they like puppies, the Republicans will start calling puppies freeloading drains on the economy.
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"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
I'd expect Foster Farms to be shut down if it could be shown Foster Farms was doing something wrong, not just because they're in the same industry.
Considering that the companies have had to do shit to follow the regulations under the Bush administration, Foster Farms could have superAIDS makers and still be doing nothing technically wrong in this analogy. Because the issues giving rise to this problem are industry wide, I don't see the problem with a blanket ban until it can actually be sorted out. It isn't different from a quarantine.
Are they industry wide? If so, that's the kind of thing I'd expect would be in the government's report, rather than... nothing.
If the equipment is unsound, and BOPs don't work, then all the 3600+ rigs in the Gulf need to be shut down, not just the 33 currently affected.
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BarcardiAll the WizardsUnder A Rock: AfganistanRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
I like how even other countries are shutting oil drilling down and adding more restrictions, even canceling pipelines. Yet we are doing the opposite.
I'd expect Foster Farms to be shut down if it could be shown Foster Farms was doing something wrong, not just because they're in the same industry.
Considering that the companies have had to do shit to follow the regulations under the Bush administration, Foster Farms could have superAIDS makers and still be doing nothing technically wrong in this analogy. Because the issues giving rise to this problem are industry wide, I don't see the problem with a blanket ban until it can actually be sorted out. It isn't different from a quarantine.
Are they industry wide? If so, that's the kind of thing I'd expect would be in the government's report, rather than... nothing.
If the equipment is unsound, and BOPs don't work, then all the 3600+ rigs in the Gulf need to be shut down, not just the 33 currently affected.
If cars without seatbelts are unsafe, then every car on the road needs to be upgraded. Not just the new ones.
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Yes. It's true that many of the rank and file employees that work offshore are based in Louisiana, but it's hard for me to muster much anger at Louisiana specifically. I don't know where all the oil and gas money goes, but ultimately I don't think very much of it ends up in Louisiana.
For some reason the portion of tax money from oil drilled in the state was always a fraction of what other states (Texas) got, with the difference going to the Feds. Its one of the things Senator Liandreu has been arguing for for years, one of the few things I actually agree with her on. I think Louisiana finially started getting a higher percentage of the money a couple of years ago, but I dont know if its on par with other states yet.
I dont think the state actually has that much authority over these types of rigs, its the feds that suppose to regulate them and make sure they have responce plans in place. I always remember that its not Florida stat government that decieded there was no drilling off their coast, just that their delagation in crongress in strong enough to get any provesion opening up the area to drilling removed or block from bills in congress.
My jaw is literally on the floor.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
I call bullshit. If drilling in the gulf stopped, we'd still be able to get oil from elsewhere. I'm happy to pay a premium to get oil from somewhere that doesn't put the American shoreline at risk. And it sure as fuck has been at risk for decades now because the oil companies put profits over safety.
The fuck you is aimed squarely at people bitching about the moratorium because they think the jobs are more important than anything else. It's especially bullshit to hear that from people who are also bitching about the impact of the oil spill. And I think that Floridians have a right to be pissed off at this attitude that protecting the damned oil jobs is more important than taking the time to address safety, seeing as many people in Florida make their livelihoods on having beaches that aren't being fucked up by oil. You guys profited from your relationship with oil companies, now have fun with the downside of that relationship.
That's rather appalling. His reasoning seems to be that it was only one failure, never mind the consequences of said failure.
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Okay I got those two out of the way, there's no way it will happen again right!
Well... someone's not getting nominated to the appeals circuit.
I'd expect Foster Farms to be shut down if it could be shown Foster Farms was doing something wrong, not just because they're in the same industry. That kind of knee-jerk guilt by association is part of why we're drilling for so much oil today, because Three Mile Island and Hollywood have led to blanket bans on nuclear power. Instead of actually looking at what went wrong at Three Mile, states just decided nuclear=bad! and called it a day.
And in the Gulf, the government's moratorium was in name only. The Obama administration didn't do the equivalent of shutting down Foster (Exxon, Shell, etc) - heck, they didn't even do the equivalent of shutting down Tyson (BP). BP still has wells operating all over the Gulf, including one that ought to be shut down, or at least temporarily suspended, in the Atlantis rig.
Haley Barbour & Co are just playing politics, the "moratorium" gives them a scapegoat to direct public anger at. In reality very few wells have been shut down. There's a lot more economic damage being done by the closing of fishing grounds, but fish in those areas might not be commercially viable now anyways.
Christ, is there anyone competent at DOI these days? Reading that ruling is ridiculous.
Lionel Hutz could have won this one for the anti-moratorium side.
Ten bucks it's discovered he 1) has some sort of investment or payment from oil companies or 2) think Obama was born outside the USA.
Seriously, it is like a addict in the ER asking for some more heroin to ease the pain.
Well done.
Cynicism can sometimes be confused with precognition.
or in today's world, cynicism is basically equivalent to precognition
Really? I think it clearly creates a conflict of interest.
PSN : Bolthorn
It would seem to me that "the moratorium is causing us to lose revenue" falls well within a harm that can be later remedied through monetary compensation, if necessary. Thus, there is no cause to pre-emptively block the moratorium. If it's later determined that the government is liable for lost revenues, the government can make those parties whole by cutting them a check.
Though I still think the government did a crappy job on their report, I'm not seeing where the anti-moratorium side has standing to argue for the injunction against the moratorium.
Doesn't matter. SCOTUS in particular doesn't care.
Oh they care, but only if something is affecting corporate bottom line.
Damn those liberal activist judges!
Looking through the actual forms linked to in the article, I see energy companies, banks, General electric, insurance companies, comminication companies. My god..... a some what diversified set of investments, well obviously he must have a politcal agenda.
How the hell does a student working part time have 15 grand in the bank, let alone specifically invested in oil companies?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that his living arrangement is subsidized in a pretty substantial way.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
Bootstraps!
Um maybe a scholarship and/or internship. Also maybe prior work experiecne before going back to grad school?
OH right... congress...
They couldn't pass a bill declaring puppies cute in less than 18 months
Since most of my family are engineers or chemical engineers and worked in several plants across texas, LA, alabama over the years, much of the money was invested in various chemical and oil companies when I got it. They all make me money so I never bothered to change the setup too much.
A southern congressman would put an amendment declaring puppy abortions to be illegal without the informed consent of the 12 year old owner.
Well if the Democrats declare they like puppies, the Republicans will start calling puppies freeloading drains on the economy.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Are they industry wide? If so, that's the kind of thing I'd expect would be in the government's report, rather than... nothing.
If the equipment is unsound, and BOPs don't work, then all the 3600+ rigs in the Gulf need to be shut down, not just the 33 currently affected.
If cars without seatbelts are unsafe, then every car on the road needs to be upgraded. Not just the new ones.
America: Leading the world by showing how not to do just about everything
Didnt that one governor compare children to dogs?
They've already done this.
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