GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Oh, please be a jury trial. Please please please be a jury trial.
By the way... something hit me at work today. You know the whole thing about how boycotting a BP station won't really do much to BP but would hurt the gas station owners instead?
Okay, fine.
No dispute who gets hit if, oh, say, one were to unload any traces of BP stock from their investment portfolio.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
Oh, please be a jury trial. Please please please be a jury trial.
By the way... something hit me at work today. You know the whole thing about how boycotting a BP station won't really do much to BP but would hurt the gas station owners instead?
Okay, fine.
No dispute who gets hit if, oh, say, one were to unload any traces of BP stock from their investment portfolio.
Even less effective than a boycott, since most stock trades are done through institutionalized firms and so the impact of individuals unloading their stock won't even crack day-to-day statistical variance.
GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
But you know who you're hitting with it. And I realize the firms are where the big trades are. That's why you go try and pressure those firms to unload their BP stock too.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
Unloading BP stock doesn't necessarily hurt BP. Though it will probably hurt the execs. You have to do a lot of damage to non-complicit people in order to do that as well.
On the other hand, Ben Stein is one of those people, and fuck that guy.
It looks like they're having trouble working out how to cut this smaller tube/pipe all the way through. I wonder why they don't just use a smaller blade so they can get it in there.
DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
It's interesting to watch, but frustrating at times too.
I imagine the conversation in the SpillBot control booth usually goes along these lines.
"Grab the pipe... just grab the pipe. No, not like that. That'll never work. No. Not that way either... C'mon just move spillbot over... just a little bit. Now grab it... GODDAMN IT!"
So what sort of controls do you think they use? Some of those motions look too fluid to be a bunch of levers and buttons.
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DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited June 2010
I'd guess a two joystick system with assorted buttons and whatnot. Possibly separate joysticks for the end effectors, maybe even an additional operator.
What are they hoping to achieve by sawing-open a larger leak that they couldn't achieve when it was much smaller?
From what I understand, the new, larger hole is closer to the oil source than the current leak is. They're making this new hole so that they can put their cap on it properly.
In other words, instead of trying to use the current hole/gash, which isn't uniform in any way, they're making a new hole further up the line so their part/cap/whatever will fit nice and snug. If it works, then the old explosion hole will stop leaking oil as it'll be diverted to ships further up the line via the new cap.
What I'm wondering is why the relief wells have to go all the way down at the bottom. Couldn't they just poke it in somewhere higher within the existing hole?
What I'm wondering is why the relief wells have to go all the way down at the bottom. Couldn't they just poke it in somewhere higher within the existing hole?
I think it has to do with pressure. If you poke the well at a lower point then the pressure there will be higher, so more oil will flow through that new hole than the original one.
I am basing that completely on my high school fluid physics class though, so take it with some salt.
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
What I'm wondering is why the relief wells have to go all the way down at the bottom. Couldn't they just poke it in somewhere higher within the existing hole?
I think it has to do with pressure. If you poke the well at a lower point then the pressure there will be higher, so more oil will flow through that new hole than the original one.
I am basing that completely on my high school fluid physics class though, so take it with some salt water.
Dougie Youngson, oil analyst at Arbuthnot, said: "This situation has now gone far beyond concerns of BP's chief executive Tony Hayward being fired, or shareholder dividend payouts being cut – it's got the real smell of death. This could break BP.
"Given the collapse in the share price and the potential for it to fall further, we expect that it could become a takeover target – particularly if its operating position in the US becomes untenable."
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
Dougie Youngson, oil analyst at Arbuthnot, said: "This situation has now gone far beyond concerns of BP's chief executive Tony Hayward being fired, or shareholder dividend payouts being cut – it's got the real smell of death. This could break BP.
"Given the collapse in the share price and the potential for it to fall further, we expect that it could become a takeover target – particularly if its operating position in the US becomes untenable."
if the analysts are saying it might happen, then god damn, it might actually be possible
wonder who'd be the first to try and claim BP's remains
Dougie Youngson, oil analyst at Arbuthnot, said: "This situation has now gone far beyond concerns of BP's chief executive Tony Hayward being fired, or shareholder dividend payouts being cut – it's got the real smell of death. This could break BP.
"Given the collapse in the share price and the potential for it to fall further, we expect that it could become a takeover target – particularly if its operating position in the US becomes untenable."
on the other hand if they don't get bought out, from a long term view this price point is amazing. Assuming no punitive government action like banning BP from any US oil contracts for X years, and even then, X years will pass(or a R will regain the white house).
I've been thinking that it's likely BP will get bought out.
It's like, if they get financially punished to the extent that people want BP to get punished, some other oil company will just come in and buy it out or maybe just their assets. Then the BP executives will probably get some sort of golden parachute and still live lavish lifestyles (plus the whole "not many people with CEO experience" thing will likely ensure any BP executives of future employment).
It's like if Exxon bought out BP, is that really an improvement?
Also, if a company gets fined hojillion dollars for something like this, what's to stop them from entering Chapter 11 to just get out of paying for it anyway?
Also also, if BP does get bought out, you probably want BP's stock. The unknown factor right now is whether or not the potential buyout price exceeds the current price.
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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
If Exxon buys BP, I predict the boycott just shifts to Exxon, as a not-insignificant number of people have flashed back to the Valdez as it is.
EDIT: And are reflecting it by selling their stock too. Their stock is down 11%, compared to BP's 40% loss. Chevron's down 9%.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
What I'm wondering is why the relief wells have to go all the way down at the bottom. Couldn't they just poke it in somewhere higher within the existing hole?
I think it has to do with pressure. If you poke the well at a lower point then the pressure there will be higher, so more oil will flow through that new hole than the original one.
I am basing that completely on my high school fluid physics class though, so take it with some salt water.
Actually the whole word 'relief well' is a little silly. They won't be pumping out the oil through the second pipe (although that is something they could do if they really wanted) what they will be doing is using it as a kill well. The new well will intersect the old pipe, drill through the side, and then pump concrete in there to seal it up. I don't know quite why you have to drill so deep, I think it might be because you have to do it in a high pressure zone filled with non porous rock.
What are they hoping to achieve by sawing-open a larger leak that they couldn't achieve when it was much smaller?
From what I understand, the new, larger hole is closer to the oil source than the current leak is. They're making this new hole so that they can put their cap on it properly.
In other words, instead of trying to use the current hole/gash, which isn't uniform in any way, they're making a new hole further up the line so their part/cap/whatever will fit nice and snug. If it works, then the old explosion hole will stop leaking oil as it'll be diverted to ships further up the line via the new cap.
Yup, the whole use a little tube to pump some of the oil out method is working, and if they cut the pipe so the hole is nice and neat they can use a better version of it to cut the amount flowing out by like 90% rater than 10%. It effectively gives them a better mounting point for their apparatus. This is actually the first new thing that has been tried here which wasn't tried in Mexico when the same happened there, so fingers crossed this might actually do something. Every single barrel which is contained helps.
Oh, and the other thing which angers me greatly is that they will have to stop recovering oil if there is a hurricane. Honestly, get the biggest boat you can and hope for the damn best, just make sure there is a nice snap off connection to the boat so you don't break the tube if you get blown about. If your boat sinks, ok, 10 people are dead, but moving that boat off for a week while a hurricane passes will definately destroy thousands of lives.
It's like if Exxon bought out BP, is that really an improvement?
Probably not. In a merger/corporate acquisition, all you're doing is replacing the guys in charge. For example, Blizzard's been acquired by Activision, but the Blizzard guys are all still the same. It can take a very long time for change to work its way down, since it's basically a hostile corporate restructuring, unless it's done with brute force, which will often cause near-catastrophic side effects, such as a mass exodus of labour.
I mean, there's a reason why airline mergers never work. How many times have the major US airlines merged to form the "largest national carrier" only to unmerge again years later? It's because ultimately, the smaller airline is still a huge airline, with its own computer systems, employee unions, logistical contracts, equipment layout, etc,. It's a huge pain to try and change all that while keeping the airline in flight. Admittedly though, Exxon could eat the losses in a way that US airlines can't... still, I see a real merger-type acquisition as unlikely; a hostile takeover followed by a gutting seems much easier.
Dougie Youngson, oil analyst at Arbuthnot, said: "This situation has now gone far beyond concerns of BP's chief executive Tony Hayward being fired, or shareholder dividend payouts being cut – it's got the real smell of death. This could break BP.
"Given the collapse in the share price and the potential for it to fall further, we expect that it could become a takeover target – particularly if its operating position in the US becomes untenable."
if the analysts are saying it might happen, then god damn, it might actually be possible
wonder who'd be the first to try and claim BP's remains
My vote is on Exxon, then they can change their merged name into The Destroyers of the Planet.
The biggest problem i've had with this whole spill are the failed attempts to stop/contain the flow due to the "depth" of this well. Everytime i hear "but hasn't been tested at these depths" i cringe. There is no excuse for companies that make multi billions of dollars a year in profit to not have a few backup plans that have had some kind of test at these depths, or at the very least designed with these depths in mind.
But the blame doesn't just rest with the companies. This is where the government should be mandating that if you want to drill here, you need X emergency systems in place that are appropriate for those conditions. God knows they make enough money to fund that kind of R & D.
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In regards to the advocates of his former empire: “I was going to have them all executed… the Royal Advocate talked me out of it.” -Shadowthrone (Emperor Kellanved)
Dougie Youngson, oil analyst at Arbuthnot, said: "This situation has now gone far beyond concerns of BP's chief executive Tony Hayward being fired, or shareholder dividend payouts being cut – it's got the real smell of death. This could break BP.
"Given the collapse in the share price and the potential for it to fall further, we expect that it could become a takeover target – particularly if its operating position in the US becomes untenable."
This is silly. Every stock investor worth their salt knows that it's impossible to time the market like this. The current stock price already reflects what the market knows about BP - and it certainly knows that BP is in deep shit.
This is silly. Every stock investor worth their salt knows that it's impossible to time the market like this. The current stock price already reflects what the market knows about BP - and it certainly knows that BP is in deep shit.
That's not what our Prime Minister said, and he's an economist!
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By the way... something hit me at work today. You know the whole thing about how boycotting a BP station won't really do much to BP but would hurt the gas station owners instead?
Okay, fine.
No dispute who gets hit if, oh, say, one were to unload any traces of BP stock from their investment portfolio.
IIRC ita either. Amendment 7
IIRC cigarettes was jury. Wasn't it?
Edit: If the defendant chose alone there would never by jury trials against corporations. So i am willing to bet that either side can induce it.
Even less effective than a boycott, since most stock trades are done through institutionalized firms and so the impact of individuals unloading their stock won't even crack day-to-day statistical variance.
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On the other hand, Ben Stein is one of those people, and fuck that guy.
Nah, they'll weasel their way out of most of it and find some way to profit.
Remember, this happened in the US. We're owned by corporations.
This doesn't occur to anyone else an an incredibly bad idea?
They're prepping for it. Last heard the actual cap attempt will be on wednesday.
Sonic the Hedgehog in: Look Before You Leak
I imagine the conversation in the SpillBot control booth usually goes along these lines.
"Grab the pipe... just grab the pipe. No, not like that. That'll never work. No. Not that way either... C'mon just move spillbot over... just a little bit. Now grab it... GODDAMN IT!"
So what sort of controls do you think they use? Some of those motions look too fluid to be a bunch of levers and buttons.
What are they hoping to achieve by sawing-open a larger leak that they couldn't achieve when it was much smaller?
Just letting everything out faster and getting it over with, so that instead of five months' worth of leak we have 2.
From what I understand, the new, larger hole is closer to the oil source than the current leak is. They're making this new hole so that they can put their cap on it properly.
In other words, instead of trying to use the current hole/gash, which isn't uniform in any way, they're making a new hole further up the line so their part/cap/whatever will fit nice and snug. If it works, then the old explosion hole will stop leaking oil as it'll be diverted to ships further up the line via the new cap.
I think it has to do with pressure. If you poke the well at a lower point then the pressure there will be higher, so more oil will flow through that new hole than the original one.
I am basing that completely on my high school fluid physics class though, so take it with some salt.
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Seriously. Sell it. Get out of that stock. Boycott or no boycott, get the fuck out of that stock.
if the analysts are saying it might happen, then god damn, it might actually be possible
wonder who'd be the first to try and claim BP's remains
on the other hand if they don't get bought out, from a long term view this price point is amazing. Assuming no punitive government action like banning BP from any US oil contracts for X years, and even then, X years will pass(or a R will regain the white house).
It's like, if they get financially punished to the extent that people want BP to get punished, some other oil company will just come in and buy it out or maybe just their assets. Then the BP executives will probably get some sort of golden parachute and still live lavish lifestyles (plus the whole "not many people with CEO experience" thing will likely ensure any BP executives of future employment).
It's like if Exxon bought out BP, is that really an improvement?
Also, if a company gets fined hojillion dollars for something like this, what's to stop them from entering Chapter 11 to just get out of paying for it anyway?
Also also, if BP does get bought out, you probably want BP's stock. The unknown factor right now is whether or not the potential buyout price exceeds the current price.
EDIT: And are reflecting it by selling their stock too. Their stock is down 11%, compared to BP's 40% loss. Chevron's down 9%.
Actually the whole word 'relief well' is a little silly. They won't be pumping out the oil through the second pipe (although that is something they could do if they really wanted) what they will be doing is using it as a kill well. The new well will intersect the old pipe, drill through the side, and then pump concrete in there to seal it up. I don't know quite why you have to drill so deep, I think it might be because you have to do it in a high pressure zone filled with non porous rock.
Yup, the whole use a little tube to pump some of the oil out method is working, and if they cut the pipe so the hole is nice and neat they can use a better version of it to cut the amount flowing out by like 90% rater than 10%. It effectively gives them a better mounting point for their apparatus. This is actually the first new thing that has been tried here which wasn't tried in Mexico when the same happened there, so fingers crossed this might actually do something. Every single barrel which is contained helps.
Probably not. In a merger/corporate acquisition, all you're doing is replacing the guys in charge. For example, Blizzard's been acquired by Activision, but the Blizzard guys are all still the same. It can take a very long time for change to work its way down, since it's basically a hostile corporate restructuring, unless it's done with brute force, which will often cause near-catastrophic side effects, such as a mass exodus of labour.
I mean, there's a reason why airline mergers never work. How many times have the major US airlines merged to form the "largest national carrier" only to unmerge again years later? It's because ultimately, the smaller airline is still a huge airline, with its own computer systems, employee unions, logistical contracts, equipment layout, etc,. It's a huge pain to try and change all that while keeping the airline in flight. Admittedly though, Exxon could eat the losses in a way that US airlines can't... still, I see a real merger-type acquisition as unlikely; a hostile takeover followed by a gutting seems much easier.
My vote is on Exxon, then they can change their merged name into The Destroyers of the Planet.
But the blame doesn't just rest with the companies. This is where the government should be mandating that if you want to drill here, you need X emergency systems in place that are appropriate for those conditions. God knows they make enough money to fund that kind of R & D.
In regards to the advocates of his former empire: “I was going to have them all executed… the Royal Advocate talked me out of it.” -Shadowthrone (Emperor Kellanved)
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This is silly. Every stock investor worth their salt knows that it's impossible to time the market like this. The current stock price already reflects what the market knows about BP - and it certainly knows that BP is in deep shit.
That's not what our Prime Minister said, and he's an economist!