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[Gulf Coast Oil Spill]It Ain't Over Yet

DrakeDrake Blow it all upForeverRegistered User regular
edited August 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
Original Op is in the spoiler. It contains useful links for volunteer info and the like.
Spoiler:

So here we are, it's been a month. BP is currently trying their Top Kill, a process that involves sealing the leaks with Drilling Mud pumped into the wellhead at high pressure, then capping this seal with cement and fillers (in this case rubbery garbage). We should know one way or another how effective this process is soon enough. At this moment, every thing looks oily and icy on the BP DisasterBot Spillcam.

Another big concern is the health of the people working this industrial catastrophe. Reports have been coming out that people haven't been equipped with the proper respiration gear, which is pretty unbelievable. The toxicity of this kind of accident is pretty high, the air around the spill is basically saturated with hydrocarbon solvents and gases. Stuff like benzene, which is very not good for you. The health fall out we will see from just this fact alone is going to be pretty bad.

Now for some numbers. BP has claimed that the leak has been putting around 5,000 bbl/day into the Gulf. No one has really believed this number but BP has clung to it through thick and thin. According to this article on Bloomberg.com, it's more likely 12,000 to 19,000 bbl/day. If that is accurate then we roughly have twice the oil of the Exxon-Valdez now in the Gulf of Mexico. That's pretty bad news. These estimates are changing all the time (mainly growing), so I wouldn't be surprised to hear that for whatever reason there is even more oil than that in the Gulf.

Finally, I'll wrap this up with a link to the NOAA's website dedicated to the response. Get your factsheets and spill projections here.

Drake on
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Posts

  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So the GOp is shitting themselves with glee over this. Obama's response how would you grade it?

    The coast guard was there right from the start. He did dispatch the proper cabinet officials pretty quick. However the spill ballooned beyond anyone's control pretty damn quick. I lay a significant part of the blame at BP's feet as it seems like they tried downplay the severity of the spill for a while. But I think the govt has let them twist in the wind too long.

  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous WALK 3X FASTER New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    And of course if he did do something, RAWR SOCIALIST GOVMINT TAKEOVER!

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    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: WaffleMous#1483
  • galenbladegalenblade Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    According to the NYT, they've stopped the flow of oil.

    Not permanently, the real challenge now is to make sure that the mud they shot in holds long enough so they can cement over it, sealing it for good.

    Here's hoping.

    linksig.jpg
  • DrakeDrake Blow it all up ForeverRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Also we need to cross our fingers and hope that the well beneath the Top Kill is stable. If it isn't this is going to possibly make it worse.

  • Best AmericaBest America __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    galenblade wrote: »
    According to the NYT, they've stopped the flow of oil.

    Not permanently, the real challenge now is to make sure that the mud they shot in holds long enough so they can cement over it, sealing it for good.

    Here's hoping.
    they've stopped the flow of oil three times so far since the top-kill started and then two of those times it wasn't correct and wasn't permanent and they couldn't proceed to the cement cap but BP assured us it was all going to plan

    there is absolutely nothing that they can say any longer that I trust, they lie even when it doesn't afford them any significant advantage, they just lie and lie and lie and misrepresent things and talk down to us and bullshit incessantly

    everything BP says should just automatically be put in scare quotes and left there

    don't confuse my reticence to celebrate with skepticism; I don't doubt that they did something which allows them to say "we've stopped the flow of oil" without creating any kind of criminal liability or whatever

    but that's the only barometer BP uses to say anything; not whether it's true or not, but whether they can get away with it

    EDIT:
    WASHINGTON - The flow of oil from the broken well in the Gulf of Mexico has stopped, the Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen claimed Friday, but BP warned it would be a further 48 hours before it was known whether the "top kill" procedure had been successful.

    48 hours after 24 hours after 24 hours after 24 hours

    "everything is going according to plan"

    JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP, BP, YOU AND YOUR COAST GUARD PAWNS

    right you got it
  • MachismoMachismo Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So they stopped pumping mud in because too much was going out the top. THey are now shoving garbage in to help direct the mud down.


    BTW, BP never said that they 'stopped the flow of oil' without qualifications. Generally, they say that they stopped the flow of oil while they were pumping mud in the whole. As soon as they stop, it returns. The issue is that they need the mud to clog it, not just overcome the oil pressure.

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  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    The coast guard was there right from the start. He did dispatch the proper cabinet officials pretty quick. However the spill ballooned beyond anyone's control pretty damn quick. I lay a significant part of the blame at BP's feet as it seems like they tried downplay the severity of the spill for a while. But I think the govt has let them twist in the wind too long.

    Yeah. I dislike the fact that government response to BP has been fairly mild.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The effect whether they stop it now or in three months is an ecosystem and economy that will be ruined for years. We should celebrate the stopping of the flow when it's permanent, but we need to remember that the impact is still substantial and long-term.

  • Best AmericaBest America __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    It's hard to remember that the impact is still substantial and long-term because this may be unprecedentedly devastating even if it were stopped 100% right this instant. D:

    It will take a few more beaches being destroyed or another month without work for Gulfers before people start realizing that, as critical as it is to stop the leak, it's honestly a red herring if we aren't also investigating how to heal all of the harm already done as best we can.

    right you got it
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    If the Top Kill and Junk Shot don't work, it is my fervent desire that the Hot Bun, Fuzz Bomb, and Muffin Drop do the job.

    Edit: Are there any projections that show the leak expanding much beyond Louisiana if it continues, or will it continue to deposit there?

    rodq.jpg
  • DrakeDrake Blow it all up ForeverRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    At this point I don't really see how Mississippi, Alabama and at least a good chunk of the Florida Panhandle are going to avoid getting their beaches fouled. It's not a matter of if, but just when and how severe.

  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I'd like to ask some specifics on what, if anything, Obama could have done better on this. And why Republicans seem to think his response is equal to eating birthday cake during Katrina.

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  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Tomanta wrote: »
    I'd like to ask some specifics on what, if anything, Obama could have done better on this. And why Republicans seem to think his response is equal to eating birthday cake during Katrina.

    Forcing them to drill only 1 additional relief well is not enough. People at the oil drum are saying that they need at least 4.

    I would also like him to say to BP something along the lines of "look, either stop trying to cover this up more by preventing people from going on spill sites or I will seriously make sure you get fucked in the ass" or something equally harsh. He can at least order the coast guard to prevent that shit from happening.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Drake wrote: »
    At this point I don't really see how Mississippi, Alabama and at least a good chunk of the Florida Panhandle are going to avoid getting their beaches fouled. It's not a matter of if, but just when and how severe.

    Well, to be fair, Florida's the only one with beaches actually worth visiting.

    Granted, the MS and AL shores didn't kill you when you visited them, but that's not water you really want to swim in.

    PSN: allenquid
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So the GOp is shitting themselves with glee over this. Obama's response how would you grade it?

    The coast guard was there right from the start. He did dispatch the proper cabinet officials pretty quick. However the spill ballooned beyond anyone's control pretty damn quick. I lay a significant part of the blame at BP's feet as it seems like they tried downplay the severity of the spill for a while. But I think the govt has let them twist in the wind too long.

    I don't understand why people are saying Obama hasn't done much.

    It's an oil spill 5,000 feet underwater. Everything that can be done is being done already. I think maybe people expect him to don a wetsuit and stop the leak with his finger or something =/

  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Xaquin wrote: »
    So the GOp is shitting themselves with glee over this. Obama's response how would you grade it?

    The coast guard was there right from the start. He did dispatch the proper cabinet officials pretty quick. However the spill ballooned beyond anyone's control pretty damn quick. I lay a significant part of the blame at BP's feet as it seems like they tried downplay the severity of the spill for a while. But I think the govt has let them twist in the wind too long.

    I don't understand why people are saying Obama hasn't done much.

    It's an oil spill 5,000 feet underwater. Everything that can be done is being done already. I think maybe people expect him to don a wetsuit and stop the leak with his finger or something =/

    No, he's giving BP too much autonomy in handling the spill, and letting them get away with things like cover-up attempts and trying to save money by drilling fewer relief wells.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Part of the issue is BP is really the one with tools to handle this kind of thing and legally it's their job too. It's kind of some weird privatized disaster relief shit going on here.

  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Xaquin wrote: »
    So the GOp is shitting themselves with glee over this. Obama's response how would you grade it?

    The coast guard was there right from the start. He did dispatch the proper cabinet officials pretty quick. However the spill ballooned beyond anyone's control pretty damn quick. I lay a significant part of the blame at BP's feet as it seems like they tried downplay the severity of the spill for a while. But I think the govt has let them twist in the wind too long.

    I don't understand why people are saying Obama hasn't done much.

    It's an oil spill 5,000 feet underwater. Everything that can be done is being done already. I think maybe people expect him to don a wetsuit and stop the leak with his finger or something =/

    The need to draw equivalence. Ordering the coast guard to lay boom has been done, not that much else to do that is as time-critical.

    the GOP shouldn't give a rats ass about them since they won't vote for them. If someone won't vote for you they might as well not exist.
  • DrakeDrake Blow it all up ForeverRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Quid wrote: »
    Drake wrote: »
    At this point I don't really see how Mississippi, Alabama and at least a good chunk of the Florida Panhandle are going to avoid getting their beaches fouled. It's not a matter of if, but just when and how severe.

    Well, to be fair, Florida's the only one with beaches actually worth visiting.

    Granted, the MS and AL shores didn't kill you when you visited them, but that's not water you really want to swim in.

    Gulf Shores in Alabama (where I grew up) is basically just like Florida and its Gulf waters.

    080221-alabama-hmed-11a.hmedium.jpg

    Same with Orange Beach, Alabama.

  • Best AmericaBest America __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Part of the issue is BP is really the one with tools to handle this kind of thing and legally it's their job too. It's kind of some weird privatized disaster relief shit going on here.
    yeah a lot of the people cracking the whip don't realize how tightly the federal government's hands are tied, and what kind of disastrous precedent it would set if they moved despite that

    almost everyone is aware of (the quotation) "separation of church and state" but the separation of state and business is far more integral to our country's day-to-day operations and, honestly, much more dangerous in the modern world than the former

    right you got it
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Xaquin wrote: »
    So the GOp is shitting themselves with glee over this. Obama's response how would you grade it?

    The coast guard was there right from the start. He did dispatch the proper cabinet officials pretty quick. However the spill ballooned beyond anyone's control pretty damn quick. I lay a significant part of the blame at BP's feet as it seems like they tried downplay the severity of the spill for a while. But I think the govt has let them twist in the wind too long.

    I don't understand why people are saying Obama hasn't done much.

    It's an oil spill 5,000 feet underwater. Everything that can be done is being done already. I think maybe people expect him to don a wetsuit and stop the leak with his finger or something =/

    No, he's giving BP too much autonomy in handling the spill, and letting them get away with things like cover-up attempts and trying to save money by drilling fewer relief wells.

    addressing the first part, who else can handle it? I don't think there is a federal dept of handling oil spills 5k under water. (not trying to be snarky, I just don't think anyone but BP is really capable of handling it) (unfortunately)

  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    So the GOp is shitting themselves with glee over this. Obama's response how would you grade it?

    The coast guard was there right from the start. He did dispatch the proper cabinet officials pretty quick. However the spill ballooned beyond anyone's control pretty damn quick. I lay a significant part of the blame at BP's feet as it seems like they tried downplay the severity of the spill for a while. But I think the govt has let them twist in the wind too long.

    I don't understand why people are saying Obama hasn't done much.

    It's an oil spill 5,000 feet underwater. Everything that can be done is being done already. I think maybe people expect him to don a wetsuit and stop the leak with his finger or something =/

    No, he's giving BP too much autonomy in handling the spill, and letting them get away with things like cover-up attempts and trying to save money by drilling fewer relief wells.

    addressing the first part, who else can handle it? I don't think there is a federal dept of handling oil spills 5k under water. (not trying to be snarky, I just don't think anyone but BP is really capable of handling it) (unfortunately)

    I am not saying he should get the government to deal with plugging the leak. I am saying he should not let BP try to cover up the spill even more by not allowing reporters to the spill sites and bullshit like that.

    Someone asked a Coast Guard official (don't remember who) why the Coast Guard was siding with BP on that matter, and they said "It's BP's oil". Are you fucking kidding me.

    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • DrakeDrake Blow it all up ForeverRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    So the GOp is shitting themselves with glee over this. Obama's response how would you grade it?

    The coast guard was there right from the start. He did dispatch the proper cabinet officials pretty quick. However the spill ballooned beyond anyone's control pretty damn quick. I lay a significant part of the blame at BP's feet as it seems like they tried downplay the severity of the spill for a while. But I think the govt has let them twist in the wind too long.

    I don't understand why people are saying Obama hasn't done much.

    It's an oil spill 5,000 feet underwater. Everything that can be done is being done already. I think maybe people expect him to don a wetsuit and stop the leak with his finger or something =/

    No, he's giving BP too much autonomy in handling the spill, and letting them get away with things like cover-up attempts and trying to save money by drilling fewer relief wells.

    addressing the first part, who else can handle it? I don't think there is a federal dept of handling oil spills 5k under water. (not trying to be snarky, I just don't think anyone but BP is really capable of handling it) (unfortunately)

    I am not saying he should get the government to deal with plugging the leak. I am saying he should not let BP try to cover up the spill even more by not allowing reporters to the spill sites and bullshit like that.

    Someone asked a Coast Guard official (don't remember who) why the Coast Guard was siding with BP on that matter, and they said "It's BP's oil". Are you fucking kidding me.

    Especially after the Pearl Act. They should at least be getting embedded on Coast Guard vessels.

    edit: And allowed to document the sites it's made landfall. And BP should foot the bill for any services required to protect the reporters. Guides, HazMat suits, whatever.

  • AresProphetAresProphet don't call it a fight when you know it's a warRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Septus wrote: »
    If the Top Kill and Junk Shot don't work, it is my fervent desire that the Hot Bun, Fuzz Bomb, and Muffin Drop do the job.

    Look all I know is that if I took a junk shot to my oil pipe it'd stop my flow.

    the first bit of advice that you gave me that I liked
    was they're too strong, too strong
  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Kanye was wrong. George Bush doesn't hate black people. The government hates Louisiana. Or god does, anyway.

    Edit: Who cares about a bunch of inbred hicks, anyway, mirite?

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The view of government's failure being post-spill here is silly. You fix the damn thing first, then assess liability. Since no one has much of any experience of sealing holes at a mile of depth, you go with whoever has the experts/equipment to do so. Unfortunately, that's the oil industry. So yeah, I can see why you'd suck up to them a little bit. If, after the oil stops spewing forth, the government continues to allow BP to do whatever the fuck it wants, then we have a problem.

    But more to the point, the government failed massively before the spill.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Kanye was wrong. George Bush doesn't hate black people. The government hates Louisiana. Or god does, anyway.

    Edit: Who cares about a bunch of inbred hicks, anyway, mirite?

    Anne Rice likes Louisiana.

    That is all that needs to be said about Louisiana.

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava One day, I will be able to say to myself "I am beautiful and I am perfect just the way I am"Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So yeah, about slapped my store manager last night. She just got back from vacation in key west and when I asked her how it was, she was all bubbly and happy because, omg the oil hadn't gotten there yet teehee.


    ugghh.


    now, i know she was just joking around, and i might be an overly emotional female right now, but grrr.

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  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The view of government's failure being post-spill here is silly. You fix the damn thing first, then assess liability. Since no one has much of any experience of sealing holes at a mile of depth, you go with whoever has the experts/equipment to do so. Unfortunately, that's the oil industry. So yeah, I can see why you'd suck up to them a little bit. If, after the oil stops spewing forth, the government continues to allow BP to do whatever the fuck it wants, then we have a problem.

    But more to the point, the government failed massively before the spill.

    Really they have failed in that they're letting BP have control of the PR, the actual mechanics of the leak the government is more or less powerless to stop

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The view of government's failure being post-spill here is silly. You fix the damn thing first, then assess liability. Since no one has much of any experience of sealing holes at a mile of depth, you go with whoever has the experts/equipment to do so. Unfortunately, that's the oil industry. So yeah, I can see why you'd suck up to them a little bit. If, after the oil stops spewing forth, the government continues to allow BP to do whatever the fuck it wants, then we have a problem.

    But more to the point, the government failed massively before the spill.

    Really they have failed in that they're letting BP have control of the PR, the actual mechanics of the leak the government is more or less powerless to stop

    I mostly consider this a failure of the media.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • AurinAurin Registered User
    edited May 2010
    So, we're going to invent cars that run on water now, right? The water just has to be from the Gulf of Mexico...

    And on a serious note, I really don't think this top kill is going to work. Something about pumping in that mud at a lower PSI than the oil just seems... outside of science to me. Here's hoping they figure out how to fix it sometime and actually get started cleaning up their gigantic mess.

  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    But more to the point, the government failed massively before the spill.

    I don't necessarily think this is a problem with Obama, though (not saying you are, but just that one can easily conflate government = the administration currently in chargE), unless there's evidence that during his administration up to the start of the spill that he let it get worse by somehow undermining the MMS, etc (I doubt this is the case). Rather, I think there's just a general systemic government failure (MMS is a prime component of this) here that's part of the departmental bureaucratic organization level which is outside any administrative control.

  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Aurin wrote: »
    So, we're going to invent cars that run on water now, right? The water just has to be from the Gulf of Mexico...

    Well...
    Spoiler:

    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Aegis wrote: »
    But more to the point, the government failed massively before the spill.

    I don't necessarily think this is a problem with Obama, though (not saying you are, but just that one can easily conflate government = the administration currently in chargE), unless there's evidence that during his administration up to the start of the spill that he let it get worse by somehow undermining the MMS, etc (I doubt this is the case). Rather, I think there's just a general systemic government failure (MMS is a prime component of this) here that's part of the departmental bureaucratic organization level which is outside any administrative control.

    Well, no. The Bush Interior's utter corruption and subserviance to the oil industry is the primary fault there. That said, Salazar was not the best pick to clean it up and he didn't do a great job doing so.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • AurinAurin Registered User
    edited May 2010
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    Aurin wrote: »
    So, we're going to invent cars that run on water now, right? The water just has to be from the Gulf of Mexico...

    Well...
    Spoiler:

    That's actually pretty neat. Need more Hondas.

    Also, the live feed of the mess is very... brown today. They need to learn how to park their little underwater cameras better... or everything is just horribly messy today.

  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Aurin wrote: »
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    Aurin wrote: »
    So, we're going to invent cars that run on water now, right? The water just has to be from the Gulf of Mexico...

    Well...
    Spoiler:

    That's actually pretty neat. Need more Hondas.

    Also, the live feed of the mess is very... brown today. They need to learn how to park their little underwater cameras better... or everything is just horribly messy today.

    BMW was running commercials a year or two back about their hydrogen cell car that was "ready for when the world is ready for it" or something.

  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Yeah, the tech is there. We just need to get infrastructure to support it. That's a lot of work, but not a lot of R&D.

    CoH_infantry.jpg
    Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
  • CognisseurCognisseur Registered User
    edited May 2010
    What the fuck nonsense is this? Obama admits he was wrong about his handling of the BP spill.

    What the fuck? The media has been running nonstop since he got elected about how we need less meddlesome government, less inept government trying to run our lives, less government getting into people's private businesses. Private business fucks up and suddenly it's Obama's fault?

    I'm not even that hardcore pro-Obama but it's just obnoxious to me that we can suddenly be criticizing the government for not becoming sufficiently involved cleaning up someone else's mess, especially when the someone else is doing their best to be unhelpful throughout all this.
    In dealing with BP, his administration “should have pushed them sooner” to provide images of the leak
    Really? BP fucks up and then BP pulls shit like this when the government comes in to help and somehow this results in Obama apologizing?

  • Cameron_TalleyCameron_Talley Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Aurin wrote: »
    So, we're going to invent cars that run on water now, right? The water just has to be from the Gulf of Mexico...

    .

    Lone Gunmen did it. Or rather, discovered it.

    /Obscure?

    3DS code: 0404-6826-4588 PM if you add.
  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So the GOp is shitting themselves with glee over this. Obama's response how would you grade it?

    Well, this spill was never going to get plugged and cleaned up quickly. The GOP knows this and the problem is that if Obama had tried to step in and do too much the GOP could point and scream about government interference and how things would have gotten fixed so much faster if the government just stepped back and let the business handle it.

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